How Well, are PRCs Integrating Here?
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Unless we have data on the number of babies born to Singapore-born parents and the number of Singapore-born people and their offspring, your conclusions are just poppyrot.
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ok nvm. I just mentioning that the percentage of foreign-born Singaporeans is getting significiantly high nowaday. Nothing else.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:Unless we have data on the number of babies born to Singapore-born parents and the number of Singapore-born people and their offspring, your conclusions are just poppyrot.
Scared later u labelled me an insufferable bigot who roams these forums. -
Originally posted by Spartans:ok nvm. I just mentioning that the percentage of foreign-born Singaporeans is getting significiantly high nowaday. No else.
Scared later u labelled me an insufferable bigot who roams these forums.
There's nothing to be afraid of if you post sensible stuff. But surely the addition 2 million residents (and the coming 2 million) weren't all naturalised S'poreans. -
My statistic is based on 1990 and 2007 Singapore's population only.Originally posted by Kuali Baba: There's nothing to be afraid of if you post sensible stuff. But surely the addition 2 million residents (and the coming 2 million) weren't all naturalised S'poreans.
But I dun have any statistic on how many percentage of the 2millions increase in population is due to foreigners-turned-Singaporeans. My guess is the percentage will be relatively high. -
If she acted out of such intentions, what would be the best word to classify people like her? I think "bigot" is a most suitable one. Seeing that you seem to be empathizing with her behavior, that label perhaps should apply to you too.
With that in mind, may I refer you to the this message from one of the forumites here:
A message for the insufferable bigots who roam these forumsOriginally posted by HyperFocal:I'm more thinking that the local lady agressor, mya have lashed out in such a manner because of something she suffered because of PRCs here in SG...
... such as, maybe her hubby lost his job to a PRC? something like that..?
So naturally, she lost her cool when that young PRC said something and sparked her off...
I forsee more of such clashes to happen as the population of PRC here continues to grow.... -
Perhaps you have not read my other posting on this topic; however, note that I do not condone her actions/behaviour. It's just that some people are less in control of their emotions.Originally posted by idiotbutcherer:If she acted out of such intentions, what would be the best word to classify people like her? I think "bigot" is a most suitable one. Seeing that you seem to be empathizing with her behavior, that label perhaps should apply to you too.
With that in mind, may I refer you to the this message from one of the forumites here:
A message for the insufferable bigots who roam these forums
I am however pointing to more of such incidences, as Chinese Nationals continues to saturate our society...
Call me a bigot as you will, but those who fails and or choose to ignore the government's error in allowing PRCs to saturate society & plunder the job market, are probably truer bigots... -
I believe the following article has some relevance to such petty skirmishes between locals & Chinese Nationals (which makes up the largest bulk of Foreigners here):
Unskilled foreigners the bane of older S'poreans
Sat, Dec 15, 2007
The Straits Times
WHEN Singaporeans above the age of 40 or retirees seek jobs to feed their families - any job, be it as a cleaner, dishwasher, stall assistant or coffeeshop helper - they often meet with this response:
'You are too old. Are you prepared to accept $800 per month for 10 hours of work and one day off every fortnight?
'Of course, you have to multi-task - wash the dishes, clean toilets and fans, undertake delivery, etc, for the $800.
'Expect no medical or leave benefits.'
After deducting transport and food which do not come cheap, the poor retiree who used to earn $2,000 to $3,000 takes home a much-reduced income.
The employer can afford to be smug because if the older Singaporean does not want the job, he could always look to abundant younger China workers willing to do 12-hour shifts and more work, for less.
How is it that we are allowing cheap, unskilled foreign workers into Singapore so easily that they are depressing wages and making life hard for less-educated older Singaporeans?
What can we do in the face of such unfair odds, with all the cards stacked against us?
Ang Kwang Leng -
not only in the job market, in schools as well.Originally posted by HyperFocal:those who fails and or choose to ignore the government's error in allowing PRCs to saturate society & plunder the job market, are probably truer bigots... -
soon we will see 'NO EGGS' sign on board of buses. haha
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Blame the fear caused by idiots who want to move to Singapore and refuse to make any effort to integrate.
We're all fair people, if you're willing to make the effort to integrate and blend in, we're willing to give you a fair go.
Suffice to say, there ain't such thing as a free lunch, and the liberal attitudes towards immigration by the government is not helping when they fail to take a calibrated approach towards entry of new immigrants based on their skillsets and failure in ensuring there is a policy that requires audited processes confirming that firms applying for EPs and whatnot, show that they have made decent attempts at hiring a Singaporean citizen and having failed because they cannot find a suitably qualified person.
As they say in Rome, do as the Romans do. No doubt, there are many who are ignorant and have this unjustified fear of foreigners. But hey, there's no smoke without fire you know..
Man is a social animal, and he or she does not live and breath in a statistical vacuum. If these bunch of nitwits in power do not buck up and reform their policies, I say vote them out.
Would you expect a raise after you've stuffed up at work? You'd be happy not to be censured..
But the opposite is true. We're all sick of paying through our nose for these fellows who are distant from the ground, and only pay lipservice because it is the only thing they know how to do, without stuffing up further.
Those chaps who think there's all smokebombs and fark all here, be my guest. If you've never walked the ground, there's hardly any room for any castle-building flimsy statements which does not portray a solid foundation for real policy alternatives, and mind you, actual policymaking does not mix itself with easy-peasy words of denigration. -
spore so small....and wif the influx of the PRC....how can u keep away??Originally posted by HyperFocal:Personally, I do not condone with actions of the elder woman, but then, as I have pointed out; there are locals out there who are less capable controlling their distaste and or hatred towards PRC whatever their reasons may be. But still, one should never raise one's hands on another.
Just keeping away from them, would be good enough.
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Everywhere the same.
Now you have Singaporeans Vs Foreigners, Singaporean Chinese vs PRC , Singaporean Indians Vs Indian nationals etc etc.
Economy good and jobs aplenty - nobody cares .
Economy bad and jobs are scarce - first thing people do is to look for someone to blame because they feel that the ivory tower doesn't listen. Some of the anger will translate into backlashes on foreigners in the community.
That is a symptom which will worsen when the job markets get tighter.
It is just like that in any country of the world except some people label this behaviour differently. -
Many Singaporeans lack civil etiquettes. We don't flush our toilets. We do not keep the toilet seat clean for others to use. We put on our make-ups in public places. We use hair spray when people are seated next to us. We blow our mucus from noses loudly in the public transport. We occupy 2 seats by spreading our legs wide apart. We continue to eat on public transport despite the ban.
That older lady's poor manners only worsen when she was "educated" by someone more civilized. Getting aggressive and peppering her with eggs was a further statement of an uncouth upbringing. -
From the article, it is obvious it is the fault of the singaporean auntie. Use a leg and try to block the girl ? Hit her with eggs ? Spoiled her specs ? Verbal abuse her ? Try to give $10 to appease her ? It is not about the nationality, if I am the younger girl, I will be angry too
It is true that Chinese PRC may not integrate into our society well. Same as people of other national such as Europe, Americans or Indians. The Caucasians are always staying only temporary and did not integrate into our country as well. Some of them think they are higher than us.
For PRC, it is not entirely their fault and we are blameless. Subconsciously, some singaporean are treating them as PRC and keep an arm distance from them. Especially reader of Lian He Wan Bao tat always bash PRC. SOme do integrate into our society by buying HDB, working and marrying in Singapore.
You can complain about PRC snatching jobs etc but the fact is Singapore cannot grow without any foreigners immigrants. From the viewpoint of macropolicy, importing foreigners into the country help to balance the growth of economy and lure of talents. Tat is why we are following wat other countries r doing for many years. America and even singapore starts off by luring immigrants into the country and continues up till now. -
Someone is pushing for the argument that foreigner's failure of integration (whatever one means by it) instills fear into the minds of locals. As a result, the crude behaviour on the Singaporean's part now seems to have a somewhat acceptable explanation, because she was acting out of fear! What kind of under-developed mind houses such twisted logic? It seems quite clear that some individual is going all out to blame Chinese nationals at the cost of logical reasoning and objectivity.
Imagine if the roles of the story were reversed with the victim being the Singaporean and the aggressor being a foreign national. How would one react to the rationalization that the foreigner acted out of her fear of Singaporeans in general?
The problem of Singaporeans is not that foreigners instill fear into them. It is that they suffer from an incurable condition called complaintitis. They whine about the most trivial problem in their life. And, instead of fixing those problems of their own, they readily point fingers at others. That is rather a cowardly mindset, I should say. -
I do agree that Singaporeans are apt to complain about many things, & that many are still "ugly" in terms of the lack of courtesy & grace. However, no one condones the actions of the elder local lady - but I am however pointing out that not EVERY Singaporean are as intellectually refined as your good self..Originally posted by idiotbutcherer:Someone is pushing for the argument that foreigner's failure of integration (whatever one means by it) instills fear into the minds of locals. As a result, the crude behaviour on the Singaporean's part now seems to have a somewhat acceptable explanation, because she was acting out of fear! What kind of under-developed mind houses such twisted logic? It seems quite clear that some individual is going all out to blame Chinese nationals at the cost of logical reasoning and objectivity.
Imagine if the roles of the story were reversed with the victim being the Singaporean and the aggressor being a foreign national. How would one react to the rationalization that the foreigner acted out of her fear of Singaporeans in general?
The problem of Singaporeans is not that foreigners instill fear into them. It is that they suffer from an incurable condition called complaintitis. They whine about the most trivial problem in their life. And, instead of fixing those problems of their own, they readily point fingers at others. That is rather a cowardly mindset, I should say.
Those who are unable to fly off to greener pastures, and whose destiny are dictated by the government, are left to their own devices.... some just tolerated, some earnestly compete in every way they can, and of course, some who reacted wrongly by freaking out...
I say, there would be more freaking outs to come... -
My 2 cents worth: PRCs are often seen as snobbish ppl becos of the way they speak. They give you the impression that they think they're better than you and stuffs. So I'm not suprised that this happened.
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Failure to understand rhetoric in search of a rational explanation is one of the saddest thing that can happen.
And it is one area many Singaporeans are terribly lacking in. -
Souther chinese are not han chinese..minyue people lah
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Countries that opened their doors to foreigners have their fair of problems getting new immigrants to integrate. For some, close-knit communities formed without the need to integrate into the mainstream population. That's a normal social behaviour.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Blame the fear caused by idiots who want to move to Singapore and refuse to make any effort to integrate.
We're all fair people, if you're willing to make the effort to integrate and blend in, we're willing to give you a fair go.
Suffice to say, there ain't such thing as a free lunch, and the liberal attitudes towards immigration by the government is not helping when they fail to take a calibrated approach towards entry of new immigrants based on their skillsets and failure in ensuring there is a policy that requires audited processes confirming that firms applying for EPs and whatnot, show that they have made decent attempts at hiring a Singaporean citizen and having failed because they cannot find a suitably qualified person.
As they say in Rome, do as the Romans do. No doubt, there are many who are ignorant and have this unjustified fear of foreigners. But hey, there's no smoke without fire you know..
Man is a social animal, and he or she does not live and breath in a statistical vacuum. If these bunch of nitwits in power do not buck up and reform their policies, I say vote them out.
Would you expect a raise after you've stuffed up at work? You'd be happy not to be censured..
But the opposite is true. We're all sick of paying through our nose for these fellows who are distant from the ground, and only pay lipservice because it is the only thing they know how to do, without stuffing up further.
Those chaps who think there's all smokebombs and fark all here, be my guest. If you've never walked the ground, there's hardly any room for any castle-building flimsy statements which does not portray a solid foundation for real policy alternatives, and mind you, actual policymaking does not mix itself with easy-peasy words of denigration.
It's also normal for us to feel uncomfortable with people who are different. They are PRCs, Bangladeshis and Indians. I probably don't truly understand their culture, thought process or appreciate their food. I prefer my wanton noodles instead of their China style noodles.
An Aussie showed his aggression at my lady friend who bumped into him. She was a total stranger to him as she was working in Australia about 1 year ago and she ended in hospital for a week. I have 2 friends who recently left to work and live with their families in Australia. They have reservations on the possible wraths or hospitality to be shown to them.
Some Singaporeans lose out when jobs are go to these foreigners.
What's important is whether our employment market is bigger because of these foreigners. By offering employers/investors a bigger pool of workers, they are prepared to build their plants and offices here.
We have diversity among Singaporeans. PRCs chose Singapore because we share a similar Chinese culture. They are part of us. -
When the ugly behavior of a Singaporean woman becomes acceptable because the other party was from PRC, it explains why Singapore society never achieved the graciousness of any developed countries. To justify her behavior by blaming on the governmentÂ’s liberal immigration policy clearly demonstrated the lack of objectivity and sound logic, such people are far from being fair.
How well an immigrant integrates and assimilates into his host country demonstrates how mature and adaptable the immigrant is. In the same way, it is how well the host society accepts the many different immigrants that determine how mature is the society. Unfortunately this again clearly shows that there are elements in the Singaporean society who are unable to cope with the cultural differences that exists in all first world countries. Lucky we donÂ’t see many immigrants from eastern Europe, middle east, and Africa, or these Singaporean would freak to death. Demanding that the immigrants blend in before we accept them is arrogance out of fear.
I wonder what would be said if the younger lady was a Caucasian? Would we ask, “How well are the Caucasian integrating here”? The presence of American School, United World College, Australian School, French School clearly shows that the angmoh are not here to blend in. Do they then instill any fear in our society? Why are we fearful of the PRC and not the Caucasians? Of course, there are Singaporeans who are still afflicted by the Pinkerton Syndrome, and they would gladly be subjugated by the angmoh.
There is no need to fear the PRC, or any immigrants who are here to do jobs that we donÂ’t want to do. Any fear for their presence only reflects your inadequacy, but fear to the extent of misbehaving in the public, medical attention is required. -
Apart from their Slow Integration Process, do they even bother to read up on Singapore's Laws prior to making a living here?
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Night market stallholder's open display of nudes upset heartlanders
Uncle, how can you sell this here?
December 19, 2007
YOU too might have done a double take if you were at the night market outside North Point Shopping Centre in yishun over the weekend.
The two nude painting that Mr Lian had displayed at his stall in Yishun.
Right there in the middle of the pasar malam were two hair-nude paintings of women.
They attracted plenty of attention from passers-by, young and old, many of whom were surprised.
The paintings have since been removed by the shop owner, Mr Lian Wantang.
The 36-year-old said he had destroyed and threw them away.
The big one measured about 3m in length while the small one about 1m.
SCARED
Mr Lian, who said he was a Chinese national, told The New Paper at his store yesterday: 'I was scared after a Chinese paper reported that it was against the law to sell nude paintings. So, I broke the paintings and threw them away.'
When asked why he didn't simply return them to his supplier and seek a refund, Mr Lian insisted that he was 'scared'.
He said he had brought in the paintings from China and claimed to have wanted to sell them for $10 or $20 each.
At his stall, Mr Lian also sells vases, Chinese brushes and other paintings.
-- Pictures: SHIN MIN DAILY NEWS
Earlier, he had told Shin Min Daily News that he was surprised that there had been complaints about his nude paintings.
He said: 'Such paintings are very common in China. Many people see it as art. They can be found in some washrooms.'
Anyone who sells or exhibits an obscene item in public could be jailed up to three months, or fined, or both.
If the painting had been sold to or seen by a person below the age of 20, the sentence could increase by six months.
COMPLAINTS
Shin Min Daily News had reported on an irate reader's complaint yesterday.
Madam Wu, a 43-year-old housewife, told the paper that the stall had been there for a week. Each time she passed by the stall with her 11-year-old son, she would shield him from the paintings.
She was peeved that the paintings were displayed openly. And she was not alone.
Madam Chitra, 26, a housewife with a 2-year-old son, told The New Paper: 'It was right for the man to remove the painting, but I'm surprised that he did it so quickly.'
Although nude pictures are readily available on the Internet, Madam Zainon Yusoff, a 52-year-old housewife, felt that it's a different issue when they are shown in public openly.
Mr HY Chin, 45, a father of a 21-year-old daughter, said: 'The man should have known better. It's very shameful to display such paintings in public.'
A China painting of a nude woman caused a stir in February when a gallery wanted to display it - in its full frontal glory - in the atrium of the Ministry of Information, Communications and The Arts (Mica) building.
But Mica, the building's landlord, pointed out that the US$60,000 ($92,000) painting while not banned, did not meet Media Development Authority guidelines.
These state that nude or erotic artworks 'should not be displayed in venues which are easily accessible to general audiences, including children and youths'.
The gallery eventually put the painting inside, where it attracted a steady steam of visitors.
Additional reporting by Arul John -
In the US it takes the 3rd generation to be fully intergrated into the society.
1st generation don't speak English
2nd generation torn between immigrant parents and being an american
3rd generation completely detach from the 1st generaton grand parent.
don't expect 1st generation to come into SG and intergrated immediately. If the immigrant stay till the 3rd generation than they are here to stay. If not they are transit residents. -
Are you sure you have even set foot in the US?Originally posted by Arapahoe:In the US it takes the 3rd generation to be fully intergrated into the society.
1st generation don't speak English
2nd generation torn between immigrant parents and being an american
3rd generation completely detach from the 1st generaton grand parent.
don't expect 1st generation to come into SG and intergrated immediately. If the immigrant stay till the 3rd generation than they are here to stay. If not they are transit residents.
Going by your warped logic, does that make Jerry Yang an alien by cultural yardstick or the US immigration standards? -
You are still having your dream?Originally posted by walesa:Are you sure you have even set foot in the US?
Going by your warped logic, does that make Jerry Yang an alien by cultural yardstick or the US immigration standards?