How Well, are PRCs Integrating Here?
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As much as your Schizophrenia is incurable and wreaking havoc with coherent logic...Originally posted by Arapahoe:You are still having your dream?
About time they barred the insane from roaming the streets. -
Why?... getting bore in your air-condition room? Nobody to talk to?Originally posted by walesa:As much as your Schizophrenia is incurable and wreaking havoc with coherent logic... About time they barred the insane from roaming the streets.
You are implying that just because Jerry Yang is an immigrant who adapted and became successful.
Firstly We are talking about integration? Which aspect of my statement indicate personal success tie with integration? Speaking mandarin bring million these days? where r u? In any case there is no sense in proportion to your comparison.
How many immigrants that are moving to the US every year? millions.
How many Jerry Yang ? give and take few thousand. But millions are not ? Stop dreamingÂ….!
Secondly, you have not considered time have changed. Immigrants are seeking live style change and economics gains.
Unlike generation who migrated in the 70Â’s and 80Â’s. current generation of Immigrants are mobile, and communities are huge, they can stay in the US and basically function without speaking English. They can literally eat, watch, work without contact with another American. They can choose to stay in a city without going to other states in their entire life in the US.
U have to move with times! Stop living in the past. -
Aircon room? Is your addiction to Orchard-shopping so acute you've lost all sense of rationality?Originally posted by Arapahoe:Why?... getting bore in your air-condition room? Nobody to talk to?
You are implying that just because Jerry Yang is an immigrant who adapted and became successful.
Firstly We are talking about integration? Which aspect of my statement indicate personal success tie with integration? Speaking mandarin bring million these days? where r u? In any case there is no sense in proportion to your comparison.
For someone who can't even interpret my alleged implications accurately, it sure is a bold claim to make such senseless presumptions about integration. Is it any wonder then why an idiot finds no sense in the ensuing "proportion to comparison"?
The only question your idiocy is unable to address is nothing more than your lot of mindless thrash as follows
Have you even set foot on anywhere beyond your beloved regime to make such wild claims believing they're remotely sensible?Originally posted by Arapahoe:1st generation don't speak English
2nd generation torn between immigrant parents and being an american
3rd generation completely detach from the 1st generaton grand parent.
Would you like to express your "millions" of immigrants as a proportion of its population? In view of that, do you seriously reckon your myopic rhetoric to depict an accurate reflection of reality? Then again, are you even sober enough to separate the fantasies from reality?Originally posted by Arapahoe:How many immigrants that are moving to the US every year? millions.
How many Jerry Yang ? give and take few thousand. But millions are not ? Stop dreamingÂ….!
Secondly, you have not considered time have changed. Immigrants are seeking live style change and economics gains.
Get a life! Who are you trying to kid with the load of drivel you're sprouting? Your compatriots with your shoe-size intelligence?Originally posted by Arapahoe:Unlike generation who migrated in the 70Â’s and 80Â’s. current generation of Immigrants are mobile, and communities are huge, they can stay in the US and basically function without speaking English. They can literally eat, watch, work without contact with another American. They can choose to stay in a city without going to other states in their entire life in the US.
U have to move with times! Stop living in the past.
If you had even bothered to take a walk on the streets, you must be blind to have failed to realize the number of immigrants on minimum-wage jobs. I suppose you must have found the cure to global poverty given the mobility of this group which you so vehemently claim, eh?
Then again, for someone viewing the world through tinted glasses from an air-conditioned room devoid of common sense, it sure has been a bold and vivid attempt to paint the colours of the real world. A dose of Orchard shopping might provide you with a better reality check than indulging in your own delusional fantasies...
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One quoted that people who migrated to USA/UK failed to learn English and integrate into the mainstream community. Integration will certainly help ease some tensions.
When PRCs is able to win jobs against other Singaporeans, it proves that they have partially succeeded in their integration process. They are able to communicate with our mainstream population, understands our cultural heritage and celebrate our festivities. Employers give them work because they can function productively and work with majority of fellow Singaporeans. Thus, I say PRCs have done quite well integrating into our community. -
again that is all you can offer.Originally posted by walesa:Get a life! Who are you trying to kid with the load of drivel you're sprouting? Your compatriots with your shoe-size intelligence?
If you had even bothered to take a walk on the streets, you must be blind to have failed to realize the number of immigrants on minimum-wage jobs. I suppose you must have found the cure to global poverty given the mobility of this group which you so vehemently claim, eh?
Then again, for someone viewing the world through tinted glasses from an air-conditioned room devoid of common sense, it sure has been a bold and vivid attempt to paint the colours of the real world. A dose of Orchard shopping might provide you with a better reality check than indulging in your own delusional fantasies... -
It sure beats the delusional drivel befitting a shoe-size intellect you offer...Originally posted by Arapahoe:again that is all you can offer. -
If foreign workers are willing to work on those terms, you have to be able to accept the same terms or offer higher returns for your employer. It's a no-brainer but unfortunately there are indeed alot of no-brainers in this forumOriginally posted by HyperFocal:'You are too old. Are you prepared to accept $800 per month for 10 hours of work and one day off every fortnight?
'Of course, you have to multi-task - wash the dishes, clean toilets and fans, undertake delivery, etc, for the $800. -
Indeed what you say are right.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:If foreign workers are willing to work on those terms, you have to be able to accept the same terms or offer higher returns for your employer. It's a no-brainer but unfortunately there are indeed alot of no-brainers in this forum
However, if we have the necessary workforce to do a certain jobs, certainly there is no reason for the Government to approve employers' application for foreign workers. This is especially so for lower skilled jobs. Certainly I wont called low-skilled foreign workers as Foreign Talents.
We have to many Foreign Talents washing plates, selling food in foodcourts, etc already.
It seems to me that the Government has blindly opened the floodgate for the foreigners. My point is, take in only the Foreign Talents which Singapore truely need. -
Unfortunately, those that label others as no brainer are the biggest no-brainer of all.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:If foreign workers are willing to work on those terms, you have to be able to accept the same terms or offer higher returns for your employer. It's a no-brainer but unfortunately there are indeed alot of no-brainers in this forum
You fail to realise that some services are not transferable and not subjected to global competition, unless government open the gates to foreign immigrants.
Haircut, restaurant meals, tuition, motor vehicle repairs, etc.
You can't import macdonald's big mac from China just because it's cheaper, by the time it reaches Singapore, you can probably send it to HSA for biological analysis. You can't get a haircut from China without incurring time and transport cost.
The only reason why our job market is so squeezed is because of government's policy to compete on wages. Wages and price levels are sticky downwards, therefore the only way to reduce wage and price levels is by importing foreign labour to compete with locals.
Wage levels have thus been reduced to a lower level, but price levels have yet to follow suit (as can be seen by the increases in transportation charges, food, etc). -
If they only allow the intake of foreign talents that are necessary to cover the shortfall, the wage levels would not fall so drastically, which is NOT what the government wants. They intend to compete with countries like India and China for lower wages, which is tantamount to knocking an egg against a wall. Singapore can compete with China and India for low labour wages for the next 10-20 years and we will still be unable to undercut them. Because they have an extremely abundant labour force. A foolhardy policy by our government.Originally posted by Spartans:Indeed what you say are right.
However, if we have the necessary workforce to do a certain jobs, certainly there is no reason for the Government to approve employers' application for foreign workers. This is especially so for lower skilled jobs. Certainly I wont called low-skilled foreign workers as Foreign Talents.
We have to many Foreign Talents washing plates, selling food in foodcourts, etc already.
It seems to me that the Government has blindly opened the floodgate for the foreigners. My point is, take in only the Foreign Talents which Singapore truely need. -
You think the Money Greedy Farkers will listen & that they really care???Originally posted by maurizio13:If they only allow the intake of foreign talents that are necessary to cover the shortfall, the wage levels would not fall so drastically, which is NOT what the government wants. They intend to compete with countries like India and China for lower wages, which is tantamount to knocking an egg against a wall. Singapore can compete with China and India for low labour wages for the next 10-20 years and we will still be unable to undercut them. Because they have an extremely abundant labour force. A foolhardy policy by our government.
... I'd rather the people focus on voting them out in future elections...!!! -
What hope have you got when you've got morons who have never seen the world sprouting garbage through their air-conditioned homes? If these lot of clowns form your electorate, you'd count yourself lucky you didn't end up living a life identical to those of North Koreans as far as political awareness goes...Originally posted by HyperFocal:You think the Money Greedy Farkers will listen & that they really care???
... I'd rather the people focus on voting them out in future elections...!!! -
We may have locals who are able to be waiters and there are jobs for waiters. But locals are not willing to take the job for $800 a month to work 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. If foreigners are willing to do the job for $600 a month, 10 hours a day, 7 days a week; your restaurant owners will employ foreigners. If you force restaurants to employ only locals, they will have to raise the cost of your meal so as not to see a drop in revenue. Cost of living will rise even faster and higher...but that is something maurizio cannot understand, not having the advantage of mathematics lessions in his schooldays.Originally posted by Spartans:Indeed what you say are right.
However, if we have the necessary workforce to do a certain jobs, certainly there is no reason for the Government to approve employers' application for foreign workers. This is especially so for lower skilled jobs. Certainly I wont called low-skilled foreign workers as Foreign Talents.
We have to many Foreign Talents washing plates, selling food in foodcourts, etc already.
It seems to me that the Government has blindly opened the floodgate for the foreigners. My point is, take in only the Foreign Talents which Singapore truely need.
If Singaporeans do not want foreigners taking low-skilled jobs from locals, they should frequent high class restaurants that will only hire locals who speak the Queen's English and a smuttering of French to beat. In the UK, consumers have boycotted banks that outsource jobs to India, opting for banks that charge more for services but use local staff. If you are prepared to pay more for local jobs to be retained, businesses will take the cue.
If you don't want foreigners to do the jobs locals can handle, put your money where your mouth is and ban all foreign domestic maids. If there are many elderly people collecting rubbish from trash bins as some moronic bleeding hearts allege, there will be a huge demand for low skilled workers to mind their children and vacuum the carpet. Convince any Opposition Party to take that line in the next election and see them booed off the stage. The fact is: Singaporeans want to have a young, strong, live-in servant to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week without any days off or annual leave.
Typical hypocrites! Singaporean the employee rant about foreigners taking their jobs in this forum but Singaporean the employer will crucify any government who dares to remove their right to a dirt-cheap domestic servant doing a job locals can easily handle.
What a bunch of sanctimonious, double-dealing hypocrites! -
This comes down to one cause ;Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Singaporean the employee rant about foreigners taking their jobs in this forum but Singaporean the employer will crucify any government who dares to remove their right to a dirt-cheap domestic servant doing a job locals can easily handle.
..government has made cost of living for local employees so high, such that employers whence given a choice, will fin it financiallt more cost effective in hiring foreigners....
.. it all boils down to COST...don't you see? Everybody, from employee to employer's preferences, are dictated by costs...
.. and who so far has been escalating costs? ... there's none other than the our infamous FAP.... -
In that case, you should ask the government to kick out all the local Singaporeans, because none can compete with mainland Chinese. I don't think any Singaporeans can squeeze into a 3 bedroom apartment inhabited by 34 people. They are indeed more efficient, all the Singapoeans should be put on a boat and shipped to Africa. In which case, maybe our PM and cabinet ministers should move to China to govern them, it's far easier to move 82 people than 3 million.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:We may have locals who are able to be waiters and there are jobs for waiters. But locals are not willing to take the job for $800 a month to work 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. If foreigners are willing to do the job for $600 a month, 10 hours a day, 7 days a week; your restaurant owners will employ foreigners. If you force restaurants to employ only locals, they will have to raise the cost of your meal so as not to see a drop in revenue. Cost of living will rise even faster and higher...but that is something maurizio cannot understand, not having the advantage of mathematics lessions in his schooldays.
If Singaporeans do not want foreigners taking low-skilled jobs from locals, they should frequent high class restaurants that will only hire locals who speak the Queen's English and a smuttering of French to beat. In the UK, consumers have boycotted banks that outsource jobs to India, opting for banks that charge more for services but use local staff. If you are prepared to pay more for local jobs to be retained, businesses will take the cue.
If you don't want foreigners to do the jobs locals can handle, put your money where your mouth is and ban all foreign domestic maids. If there are many elderly people collecting rubbish from trash bins as some moronic bleeding hearts allege, there will be a huge demand for low skilled workers to mind their children and vacuum the carpet. Convince any Opposition Party to take that line in the next election and see them booed off the stage. The fact is: Singaporeans want to have a young, strong, live-in servant to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week without any days off or annual leave.
Typical hypocrites! Singaporean the employee rant about foreigners taking their jobs in this forum but Singaporean the employer will crucify any government who dares to remove their right to a dirt-cheap domestic servant doing a job locals can easily handle.
What a bunch of sanctimonious, double-dealing hypocrites!
Competing on a cheaper priced product where your competitor (China and India) is producing, even at a cheaper price than you can produce is an illogical way of competing. Think of the innovation of Ipod, mobile phones with multi functions, GPS, etc, these products entails innovation and are priced much higher than products which China and India are producing. It's sad that you as an educated person can only think of climbing down the ladder instead of up.
Your logic of depressing wages, seems only to have occured in Singapore. Nothing of sorts has happened in Australia. My friend who emigrated to Australia a decade ago told me that the hourly rate for a supermarket stacker was AUD 15, today it's higher than that.
Obviously we have supposed doctors arguing illogically without basic knowledge of economics. In economics, when the GDP of a country increases, so does the living standards of it's people. In Singapore, as our GDP per capita increase, our wage levels fall leading to lower standard of living. You can take into account the current salmonella poisoning in Prima Deli plant as a fall in the standard of living, which could be a result of employing too many mainland Chinese which has lower standards of hygiene. But why has the P4P government depressed our wages? Places like Australia and New Zealand have equivalent GDP per capita compared to Singapore. Why are their wages 3 times that of Singaporean workers? -
While the government throws away our hard earned money into frivolous acquisition of over-priced companies overseas. The commoners are left with having to pay the price with high levels of inflation, taxes, fees, charges and fines.
Ever wonder why our wages are so depressed, while citizens from other equivalent GDP per capita economies (e.g. Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, etc) can better afford holidays overseas. Their average wages are at least 3-5 times of Singaporeans (e.g. waiters and retail assistant makes AUD 15 to AUD 25 per hour). Singaporeans can only contend with 3rd world standard of living in the future, given the government's policy on letting in more 3rd world workers to push down wages.
The explanation for low wages given by P4P was global competition, seems like competition only applies to Singapore ONLY. But not to countries such as Australia or New Zealand.
P4P lackeys here complain that some of these countries like Australia, New Zealand, etc have high tax structure. But given their wages, they still make more than the average Singaporeans and could afford more despite their high tax structure. Notwithstanding that they do not need to pay for healthcare and basic education.
Singapore:
Income per year: SG$12,000
Income Taxes: 0%
GST: 7%
Spending Power After GST: SG$11,160 [SG$12,000 x 93%]
Australia:
(waiter or retail staff based on 3 times earnings of Singaporean only, not 5 times which is the higher bound)
Income per year: AU$36,000
Income Taxes: up to AU$6,000 = AU$0; AU$6,001 to AU$25,000 = AU$2,850; AU$25,001 to AU$36,000 = AU$3,300
Australia Personal Tax Rates
Total Income Taxes: AU$6,150 [AU$ 0 + AU$ 2,850 + AU$ 3,300]
Income after Income Taxes: AU$29,850
GST: 10%
Spending Power After GST: AU$26,865 [AU$29,850 x 90%]
An average waiter in Australia will have a spending power of AU$26,865, while a Singaporeans waiter will have only SG$11,160. Why do you think when we go for holidays overseas, we can afford less than an equivalent GDP per capita country like Australia or New Zealand.
You do the maths and tell me who is actually better off after personal taxes and GST.
Singaporeans or Australians???
Though Australia might have a higher personal tax structure, but their average wages are 3 to 5 times of Singaporeans. Even after deducting high taxes and GST, they still do end up with more money in the pocket than an average Singaporean. Moreover, they have no need to pay for healthcare and basic education.
Australian Wages
Bartending/waiting tables: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Chef: $700 - $800 per week (full time)
Retail sales assistant: $15 - $25 per hour (casual)
Check out operators and cashiers: $500 - $700 per week (full time)
Building/labouring: $650 - $850 per week (full time)
Engineering: $800 - $1500 per week (full time)
Hairdressing: $530 - $650 per week (full time)
Secretarial/administration: $600 - $700 per week (full time)
Child care: $18 - $20 per hour (casual)
A strategy like yours, competing on the basis of cost with China and India, is a strategy of competitive suicide, because Singapore can't compete in terms of cost with China and India. Of course a non-economics person like you fail to understand issues such as these and the only thing you can rant about is cheap cheap cheap. We all know what a cheapo you are, so don't have to keep emphasizing it.
A hypocrite is a person who preaches one thing and does the direct opposite. Why are you telling us to swallow the bitter pill, when you as a quitter have gone over to the UK for good? You are the same hypocritical crap that is so similar to our Ministers, tell the Singaporeans to take lower wages while increasing their own salaries three to four folds.
Maybe you should just stick to looking at pus, crap, penises and arseholes, you are well trained in it and it's your forte, leave the economic reasoning to others. -
oxford mushroom,
If you want to have a discussion, by all means stay, just don't chicken out like you always do when confronted with facts that you can't answer. -
If you're going to lie, why not churn out something more remotely convincing? I suppose you haven't seeked psychiatric treatment, have you?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:We may have locals who are able to be waiters and there are jobs for waiters. But locals are not willing to take the job for $800 a month to work 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. If foreigners are willing to do the job for $600 a month, 10 hours a day, 7 days a week; your restaurant owners will employ foreigners. If you force restaurants to employ only locals, they will have to raise the cost of your meal so as not to see a drop in revenue. Cost of living will rise even faster and higher...but that is something maurizio cannot understand, not having the advantage of mathematics lessions in his schooldays.
Is there any reason to categorically suggest locals working at higher wages would necessarily be ill-equipped to cope with the ensuing rise in costs? Your economic theories are as sound as your propensity to be deranged... -
Even with our above 1 million foreign talents, I don't see any decrease in the price of our restaurant meals, transportation, movie tickets, housing cost, coffee shop meals.Originally posted by walesa:If you're going to lie, why not churn out something more remotely convincing? I suppose you haven't seeked psychiatric treatment, have you?
Is there any reason to categorically suggest locals working at higher wages would necessarily be ill-equipped to cope with the ensuing rise in costs? Your economic theories are as sound as your propensity to be deranged...
People who have no economic sense and spend 10 hours of their life everyday looking at pus, penises and arseholes will never understand economics.
Price levels are always sticky downwards. In the event that demand of a certain product is low. As a profit motivated businessman, will he cut the price of his product or cut his labour? In the event that the cost of production has become cheaper. Do you think the profit motivated businessman will cut the selling price of his product to benefit his consumers?
That is something that this doctor will never figure out. All he can do is rant, cheap cheap cheap, that's why it's good. Who knows, maybe he is using made in China medical equipment on his patients. -
I think the explanation is simple
Generally, if cost price increases, the selling price will inevitably increase. U cannot expect businesses to make a loss for prolonged period. If u look at taxi and their recent increase in prices due to fuel increase, then u will know tis simple economic theory.
Secondly, someone has to do the lousy jobs in society. There r many dirty jobs like cleaning, recycling, construction and servant as well as slightly higher paid job like hairstylist, foot massager, operators, bus driver which we have to find other people to substitute in like foreigners. Can u find enough singaporean willing to be a servant tat work 24 hours a day 7 days a week ? We do not even have enough nurses, which is already a professional job.
A lot of people here say tat it is hard to find job here. Really ? Is tat really true ? I find tat most of my friends have jobs, do regular job hopping and most r decent jobs with car allowances and go to work wearing ties. If u really wanna work, u can always find someone in meet the people session and they will definitely find a job for u now. -
Of course to a monopoly, the businessman would not cut the selling price. Sadly, our transportation is a duopoly which can be almost considered a monopoly, with 2 companies covering their own individual routes, not crossing paths with one another, sharing the same payment system, etc etc.Originally posted by maurizio13:Even with our above 1 million foreign talents, I don't see any decrease in the price of our restaurant meals, transportation, movie tickets, housing cost, coffee shop meals.
People who have no economic sense and spend 10 hours of their life everyday looking at pus, penises and arseholes will never understand economics.
Price levels are always sticky downwards. In the event that demand of a certain product is low. As a profit motivated businessman, will he cut the price of his product or cut his labour? In the event that the cost of production has become cheaper. Do you think the profit motivated businessman will cut the selling price of his product to benefit his consumers?
That is something that this doctor will never figure out. All he can do is rant, cheap cheap cheap, that's why it's good. Who knows, maybe he is using made in China medical equipment on his patients.
However, to a competitive market like the RAM market, the selling price will definitely fall. -
Because their income gap is not as wide as in Singapore?Originally posted by maurizio13:Places like Australia and New Zealand have equivalent GDP per capita compared to Singapore. Why are their wages 3 times that of Singaporean workers? -
haha...unless the losers here who cannot find a job and have to sift through my gabbage bins, people pay top dollars for my time. I'll come in to play with you monkeys when I am bored with earning money. Don't worry, I'll be backOriginally posted by maurizio13:oxford mushroom,
If you want to have a discussion, by all means stay, just don't chicken out like you always do when confronted with facts that you can't answer. -
My guess is that the problem here is not due to the increasing income tax. Rather OZ and NZ have a safety net for their low income workers whereas Singapore does not have. As seen in previous posts by M13, Oz has a set of min. wages for the workers.Originally posted by eagle:Because their income gap is not as wide as in Singapore? -
wow top dollars! may I ask what is your job? Lawyer or Business consultant? In big MNC?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:people pay top dollars for my time. I'll come in to play with you monkeys when I am bored with earning money. Don't worry, I'll be back
well if you choose not to answer is also okay... cos is private infomation mah.