Are you able to tell me who took up the 172,400 jobs created
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It's ok, you can continue in your own little world and make a fool of yourself in front of everyoneOriginally posted by qlqq9:I shall not satisfy your desire to make things difficult for me by answering your questions any more. I had in the beginning attended to your request but after that what I get from you is nothing but vicious attitude and all the fault finding starts. If you enjoy giving people hell that is fine with me, I see your are just a kid trying very hard to grow up. This is just part of your growing pain at the expense of myself and reddressman.
Just FYI, Gazelle gave similar reasons for not answering my questions too. I can't how it is making things difficult for you when I'm asking you, in which of my posts do I disagree with your observations, a charge you have constantly levied against me, yet cannot substantiate. It is your claim you know? -
So how have my explanations of your observations not be a fact of real life? Care to point out?Originally posted by qlqq9:Yes, you said it right. However, I have been telling him he needs more working experience. I am not saying all the time but many times theory we studied in schools, uni and other institutions may not represent reality and facts in real life. -
I guess it seriously depends on the industry. According to my professor, 97~99% of the NUS EE graduates got a job within the first few months after graduation.Originally posted by Spartans:I guess IT industry is one of the worst hitted by FTs invasion.
The Indian-nationality IT professionals are abundant and they are willing to take lower wages. And according to a report I read, the Indians FTs prefer to employ Indians IT professionals from India instead of Singaporeans.
How pathetic we have become. Singaporeans being discriminated in Singapore. -
Hey, kid all you have is just a little of working experience and all you base on is theory and when people don't agree with you you act like gazelle keeps challenging people. I am not going to satisfy your evil motive. You are rather evil. Can't get what you want you like gazelle resort to act as a pain in the ass. Admit it, you are a kid going through growing pain and reddressman and myself are victimised by you.Originally posted by eagle:So how have my explanations of your observations not be a fact of real life? Care to point out? -
?Very funny, you are the one who made a fool of yourself and you are turning the table around, ha ha ha, hee hee hee! YOu don't have sufficient workingexperience so keep basing on theory on figures and numbers to disagree with people. Any working adult who has been through working life know it is futile to just base on figures and numbers and expect everyone to agree with you. We people who have been working have seen and experience more than you. WE "eat salt more than you eat rice". Understand, kid! Gazelle also acts like you - keep challenging people when people don't agree with him. You and gazelle can kiss each other and be good friends.Originally posted by eagle:It's ok, you can continue in your own little world and make a fool of yourself in front of everyone
Just FYI, Gazelle gave similar reasons for not answering my questions too. I can't how it is making things difficult for you when I'm asking you, in which of my posts do I disagree with your observations, a charge you have constantly levied against me, yet cannot substantiate. It is your claim you know? -
Shut up , kid, this is not a undergrad asssignment that you expect people to do it your way. With no work experience all you can do is what you explained above, pathetic! Kid, stop arguing.Originally posted by eagle:That was what I said
personal observations and official figures do not tally
And I gave an explanation as to why it did not tally. I had totally no idea why he would suddenly claimed I attack him or disagreed with him, something which I did not do, and he could not prove.
In addition his argument based on experience and observation constitutes less than <0.1% of the total labour force. Anyone with a right mind would know that such a sample size is simply too small for any generalisation. Unless he was talking about a particular industry, which he clearly has not stated. -
I have been to companies whereby more than 50% of the IT dept staff are indians or foreigners from other nationality. It is really sad. I have a few local friends complained to me they have problems getting IT jobs and they feedback that they come across companies instead of employ locals employ more of foreigners.Originally posted by fishbuff:i agree with you. having worked in IT line in sg for over 15 years, i have seen many IT jobs being given to FTs. in my last job in sg, company has over 250+ workers, less than 5 are taken by singaporeans.
i went to credit sussie for an IT job interview, to my horror, whole frigging dept is filled with indians! not a single singaporean in sight.
Glad you did not base on theory - figures and numbers to communicate like that sickening kid called eagle. It is people like you who have a number of years of working experience know what is reality in the working world. Reality in the working world does not require any figures calculation. -
Wow, base on professor, how your professor know afterall he is lecturing. Wow, NUS undergrad, no wonder lah!Originally posted by eagle:I guess it seriously depends on the industry. According to my professor, 97~99% of the NUS EE graduates got a job within the first few months after graduation. -
hmm seem that u got problem with NUS undergrad?Originally posted by qlqq9:Wow, base on professor, how your professor know afterall he is lecturing. Wow, NUS undergrad, no wonder lah!
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No, I don't have but have been receiving negative feedback on how unrealistic they are. I have a number of people told me they can't think out of the box and many are arrogant.Originally posted by Spartans:hmm seem that u got problem with NUS undergrad? -
hmm so according to your observations and others' feedbacks, which university graduate would you prefer to employ? Let consider local university: NUS, NTU, SMU and SIM.Originally posted by qlqq9:No, I don't have but have been receiving negative feedback on how unrealistic they are. I have a number of people told me they can't think out of the box and many are arrogant. -
Originally posted by Spartans:hmm so according to your observations and others' feedbacks, which university graduate would you prefer to employ? Let consider local university: NUS, NTU, SMU and SIM.
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Go start your own thread on this, don't hijack this thread.Originally posted by Spartans:hmm so according to your observations and others' feedbacks, which university graduate would you prefer to employ? Let consider local university: NUS, NTU, SMU and SIM. -
ya ya, you based your arguments on that little number of people you have seen.Originally posted by qlqq9:I have been to companies whereby more than 50% of the IT dept staff are indians or foreigners from other nationality. It is really sad. I have a few local friends complained to me they have problems getting IT jobs and they feedback that they come across companies instead of employ locals employ more of foreigners.
Glad you did not base on theory - figures and numbers to communicate like that sickening kid called eagle. It is people like you who have a number of years of working experience know what is reality in the working world. Reality in the working world does not require any figures calculation.
More than 50% out of a staff of 20 I guess? -
Ya, my professor has definitely more working experience and seen more companies than you. In addition, the number of EE graduates is near 800+ a year. Statistics from a few years is definitely much more than that few that you have seen.Originally posted by qlqq9:Wow, base on professor, how your professor know afterall he is lecturing. Wow, NUS undergrad, no wonder lah!
And that is what you like to claim right? You can go get more working experience before challenging what my professor has said, right? Or do you need his email to email and confirm? -
so this is the immature argument that you can only give? Your "I have more working experience than you therefore I must be correct" argument?Originally posted by qlqq9:Shut up , kid, this is not a undergrad asssignment that you expect people to do it your way. With no work experience all you can do is what you explained above, pathetic! Kid, stop arguing. -
It is only a pain because you do not dare to face burning questions that challenge the integrity of your posts.Originally posted by qlqq9:Hey, kid all you have is just a little of working experience and all you base on is theory and when people don't agree with you you act like gazelle keeps challenging people. I am not going to satisfy your evil motive. You are rather evil. Can't get what you want you like gazelle resort to act as a pain in the ass. Admit it, you are a kid going through growing pain and reddressman and myself are victimised by you.
As I have already pointed out, you have already 4 similarities with Gazelle.
And note:
I have mentioned many times I did not disagree with your observations. I have merely stated my facts and figures. Thus, why is it that you would keep claiming I disagree? What is your actual motive? Why is it that you could not answer this simple question, and yet want to continuously claim I disagreed with you? -
So does that mean you can claim everything against anyone without any proof? Without anything to substantiate your statements? Bear in mind the guidelines of this forum:Originally posted by qlqq9:Shut up , kid, this is not a undergrad asssignment that you expect people to do it your way. With no work experience all you can do is what you explained above, pathetic! Kid, stop arguing.
Ask yourself: Have you fulfilled this guideline?Originally posted by CenturionMBT:2. All Statements here Must be backed with facts and not baseless allegations. -
I swear to you, I witnessed in a company, where it awarded a project to a new citizen.Originally posted by qlqq9:I have been to companies whereby more than 50% of the IT dept staff are indians or foreigners from other nationality. It is really sad. I have a few local friends complained to me they have problems getting IT jobs and they feedback that they come across companies instead of employ locals employ more of foreigners.
Glad you did not base on theory - figures and numbers to communicate like that sickening kid called eagle. It is people like you who have a number of years of working experience know what is reality in the working world. Reality in the working world does not require any figures calculation.
He was from somewhere down the isle of the indian ocean.
Although new citizen, he basically is still associate only with people from the indian ocean. He setup a company and got a lobang from a person who awards contracts. Guess what, that person who awarded him contracrt is also from the ocean. and also at least a PR.
that is not all. This ocean guy hires foreigners and PRs and put to the project.
Except for his new citizen status, all of his employees sent to the project site are from the ocean and non sgrean. I thus have a question that is it true that a company in sg need not hire many citizens as long as there are PRs hired? Why I ask this is because the published news uses the terminology of Resident which means PRs and citizens with no distinguishing of how many citizens are involved.
The boss from the ocean also charge himself as a headcount to the project.
I think he is smart. Although he generally does nothing in the project, on paper he can say that he has deployed a citizen to the project.
So, he has 1 PR and 6 oceanias deployed in the project. And really, I do not think there is many more citizens in his company. Based on this ratio, it seems like 16% is citizen and 84 % are non citizens.
Thus, I would like to seek someone here the help to check on this info on the behalf of all sg forummers here who would like to know.
And I cannot reveal the sector his company is earning money from. For the fear of my personal happiness. u know wat i mean right?
that sector , he also can earn easy money like this. this is how @##@$ we really are.
btw, the people he hired from oceania is also learner of the skills required. on the job. free training with salary and tour de sangapoo -
I believe in your ratio. As I have already explained earlier, although I calculated a minimum of 96% employment, most of the sgreans employed are in government service, the largest employer in Singapore (SAF alone employs 60.5k regulars [from wiki], and I'm sure this excludes the admin staff). In addition, you can see a lot of "self-employed" sgreans in industries like hawkers, taxi drivers, etc.Originally posted by reddressman:I swear to you, I witnessed in a company, where it awarded a project to a new citizen.
He was from somewhere down the isle of the indian ocean.
Although new citizen, he basically is still associate only with people from the indian ocean. He setup a company and got a lobang from a person who awards contracts. Guess what, that person who awarded him contracrt is also from the ocean. and also at least a PR.
that is not all. This ocean guy hires foreigners and PRs and put to the project.
Except for his new citizen status, all of his employees sent to the project site are from the ocean and non sgrean. I thus have a question that is it true that a company in sg need not hire many citizens as long as there are PRs hired? Why I ask this is because the published news uses the terminology of Resident which means PRs and citizens with no distinguishing of how many citizens are involved.
The boss from the ocean also charge himself as a headcount to the project.
I think he is smart. Although he generally does nothing in the project, on paper he can say that he has deployed a citizen to the project.
So, he has 1 PR and 6 oceanias deployed in the project. And really, I do not think there is many more citizens in his company. Based on this ratio, it seems like 16% is citizen and 84 % are non citizens.
Thus, I would like to seek someone here the help to check on this info on the behalf of all sg forummers here who would like to know.
Thus, how many sgreans do you think are left to fill up the slots in these companies?
In addition, as I have already mentioned in another thread, another way for a company to "employ" a citizen is to only employ in name, only paying CPF to the particular citizen, who could be a housewife. It is a win-win situation: On one hand, the citizen has more CPF savings for doing nothing. On the other end, the "employer" pays less corporate tax and has a better citizen to foreigners ratio, thus enabling him to hire more and cheaper Foreign workers -
Actually the numbers that the government gave or the perception given to us is rather on the wrong side. yeah it does worry me as a citizen as more and more FTs are filling up in our labour force.
I actually based myself on experience rather than numbers provided by statisticians because not all figures are accurate. in my coming 2 working yrs, i experienced job hopping due to FTs, my worse being a driver for a local seafood delivery, where i was told to leave when the company found 2 new FT drivers.
Now my current job based offshore, i was even surprised when my pay is almost the same of the FT construction worker here! I used to ask around for a min 1.7k for starters but now seeing the situation, I resigned myself to lowly 1.3k... to compare head to head, it would be a big difference, the FT construction worker earns 1.2k, no cpf, no house bills(living in company Dorm),free transport, free meals! compared to us who have a number of bills and loans to sustain...
Having a diploma is like the new o level, the degree is the new diploma... but to me and maybe some of you, skill work and experience is also a valubale asset to our resume.
the government has made a mistake somewhere. i do feel discriminated as a singaporean in singapore. -
Actually the main point in this thread is whether the statistics answers TS's question, no matter how screwed up it is by employers possibly exploiting loopholes in the system.Originally posted by silversurfer_41:Actually the numbers that the government gave or the perception given to us is rather on the wrong side. yeah it does worry me as a citizen as more and more FTs are filling up in our labour force.
I actually based myself on experience rather than numbers provided by statisticians because not all figures are accurate. in my coming 2 working yrs, i experienced job hopping due to FTs, my worse being a driver for a local seafood delivery, where i was told to leave when the company found 2 new FT drivers.
Now my current job based offshore, i was even surprised when my pay is almost the same of the FT construction worker here! I used to ask around for a min 1.7k for starters but now seeing the situation, I resigned myself to lowly 1.3k... to compare head to head, it would be a big difference, the FT construction worker earns 1.2k, no cpf, no house bills(living in company Dorm),free transport, free meals! compared to us who have a number of bills and loans to sustain...
Having a diploma is like the new o level, the degree is the new diploma... but to me and maybe some of you, skill work and experience is also a valubale asset to our resume.
the government has made a mistake somewhere. i do feel discriminated as a singaporean in singapore.
Btw, construction workers not really considered as FTs. They are FWs In the area of construction workers, how can Singaporeans fight in terms of skills? There are not much skills involved Hence, in the area of such "low-skilled" jobs, the question is, should the government enforce that Singaporeans who want to do such jobs get priority over foreigners? And why? -
FT FW whatever it is, still its foreign... have to correct you in the construction part though. lowly skilled jobs still needs a specific cert for a specific job. FW here need to go 1st a specified cert like pipefitter or boilerman or riggers in order to do the job. for most people like you and me, its not a must but to them, its as impt as your own ricebowl.
the MOM will ensure that these guys undergo proper training and certification prior to their employment in their respective companies. not all tom dick or harry can do the job.
these courses are heavily subsidised by the government and the company for them compared to the locals. heard and seen the process already. anyway for the company's benefit they surely would employ FT or FW since its more economical.
i wouldnt say singapore construction workers are low skilled. that would be disrespect to them. most of them held supervisory or managerial posts while still being regarded as construction workers by majority here. the government does not impose a law that a singaporean should be prioritised than the FW for construction or any other jobs. its always 1st come 1st serve. and, of course the government does not want to waste their efforts on bringing up the construction industry since most of the citizens here have negative thinking about it. I used to be one of them. -
Thanks for the info.Originally posted by silversurfer_41:FT FW whatever it is, still its foreign... have to correct you in the construction part though. lowly skilled jobs still needs a specific cert for a specific job. FW here need to go 1st a specified cert like pipefitter or boilerman or riggers in order to do the job. for most people like you and me, its not a must but to them, its as impt as your own ricebowl.
the MOM will ensure that these guys undergo proper training and certification prior to their employment in their respective companies. not all tom dick or harry can do the job.
these courses are heavily subsidised by the government and the company for them compared to the locals. heard and seen the process already. anyway for the company's benefit they surely would employ FT or FW since its more economical.
Regarding your last paragraph, I would think that they should perhaps give Singaporeans priority in such jobs since
1) Not too many Singaporeans go for such job till it is saturated
2) That is nothing much to compete in skill level in this industry anyway.
Afterall, foreigners were supposedly brought into the labour force to fill up jobs that little Singaporeans want to take. But they fail to explain to us: what if Singaporeans want to take?
Btw, do you have the website for that certification? I considering writing an essay if I can find sufficient sources. -
you can look it up in ntuclearning hub, sp short courses and wda for the courses.