Are you able to tell me who took up the 172,400 jobs created
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Thanks!Originally posted by silversurfer_41:you can look it up in ntuclearning hub, sp short courses and wda for the courses.
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This is a case of avoiding the issue by MOM even though there are many opportunities created by such a policy for the employers going all out to exploit loopholes deliberately created by such a FT policy.Originally posted by silversurfer_41:FT FW whatever it is, still its foreign... have to correct you in the construction part though. lowly skilled jobs still needs a specific cert for a specific job. FW here need to go 1st a specified cert like pipefitter or boilerman or riggers in order to do the job. for most people like you and me, its not a must but to them, its as impt as your own ricebowl.
the MOM will ensure that these guys undergo proper training and certification prior to their employment in their respective companies. not all tom dick or harry can do the job.
these courses are heavily subsidised by the government and the company for them compared to the locals. heard and seen the process already. anyway for the company's benefit they surely would employ FT or FW since its more economical.
Many locals who are equally skilled or even more experienced are now being by-passed by employer who prefer to employ the cheaper but not necessarily similarly skilled FT skill for skill and certificates for certificates. The asking by MOM for certification is purely a safeguard against scandal but other than that self-interest there is a lot of leeway left for the employer to exploit the locals.
If MOM wants to reduce unhappiness currently caused by employers indiscriminately by-passing the locals due to personal reasons or loopholes in the FT policy it should at least ask the employer to fulfill a few more requirements e.g. FT indeed are of skills not available among locals or the skills will definitely create more jobs and not exploitative manipulations by employers to undercut the locals.
The worse practice is for MOM to keep a blind eye to succeed for their own purpose of GDP which does not help creating jobs for the locals. Many FT may be equipped with paper qualification or certification but other than papers many locals are actually more capable and not employed due to imperfection of the job market.
Many skilled workers are being replaced by lesser skilled FT despite the certfications. Ask any construction bosses they will tell you the locals are more more experienced in plastering or welding but they were hard to find because of market imperfection caused by past retrenchments and recessions.
The same local plasters are still preferred by our local construction firms over the Bangla or Indians who need under-study and tutelage by our own experienced local. Only certain Thai plasterers could match our own local plasterers. So in name MOM says they only admit skilled workers but in actual fact they are not that skilled in many cases. It is necessary for bosses to get the local experienced skilled workers to train up the lesser skilled FT like those from Bangla. Eventually after offering in-house training of these so-called skilled FT, the FT were pushed up to take over the locals.
There are many loopholes for exploitative employers to take the easy way out. For examples in the construction sector the skilled plasterers sought after by construction bosses continue to be among the locals who have better skills but they were side-stepped by exploitative practices causing eventually more resentments among our own citizens who could close one-eye to such malpractices defying all logics and rationality.
The government should have put in a safeguard of ensuring that the local skilled workers are not being bypassed or superseded by exploitative or wrongful practices to short-change the locals.
Many people who were skilled workers would love to have an opportunity to get back their jobs but sad to say the government is not lending a helping hand-holding. So this is the kind of talents we do have in MOM so the unhappiness continues in the work place.
It looks like NKF which will not admit problems until another change of regime. -
Surely the government wouldnt be foolish enough to give the perception of singaporeans doing a lousy would they? or maybe the government thinks that if us singaporeans fill up the job, the companies have to pay us higher salaries compared to FW...Originally posted by eagle:But they fail to explain to us: what if Singaporeans want to take?
but still most pple here have the perception of construction workers of having little or no prospect. why? because of hearsays from pple? maybe. but i would blame the government anyway for not clearing the picture themselves. its the same as nursing way back then. hearsays of having to clear old pple's crap, feed them and clean blood were the dirty words pple used to describe nursing as lowly job. now nursing industry is booming here and abroad. -
Since you are in the construction sector, you should be pretty strong. How about taking some courses or reading up to become a personal trainer for others? You should be able to earn more.Originally posted by silversurfer_41:Surely the government wouldnt be foolish enough to give the perception of singaporeans doing a lousy would they? or maybe the government thinks that if us singaporeans fill up the job, the companies have to pay us higher salaries compared to FW...
but still most pple here have the perception of construction workers of having little or no prospect. why? because of hearsays from pple? maybe. but i would blame the government anyway for not clearing the picture themselves. its the same as nursing way back then. hearsays of having to clear old pple's crap, feed them and clean blood were the dirty words pple used to describe nursing as lowly job. now nursing industry is booming here and abroad. -
that is true. some companies have the attitude of take it or leave it. but still it depends on the locals to accept the pay cut. mainly business... yes you can upgrade and so, but are you willing to take pay cut plunge? so the answer would be to take a single skilled FW with a specific cert for the job. cheaper as well to manage.Originally posted by robertteh:The worse practice is to employ FT with paper qualification or certification but other than papers many locals are actually more capable and not employed due to imperfection of the job market. Many skilled workers are being replaced lesser skilled FT despite the certfication by employers who actually after getting the locals to train up the lesser skilled FT actually got the FT to take over the locals - examples are plenty in the construction sector where skilled plasterers among the locals are not given the chance after the recession to go back to their former job due to market imperfection and employers avoiding locals for a variety of childish and selfish season. -
I'd love to, since i think i wont survive long here... maybe 2-3yrs? i wont be surprised if they start to take in WHSO who are FT or FW... the locals have to fight with the low pay cut imposed by the FT and company..Originally posted by eagle:Since you are in the construction sector, you should be pretty strong. How about taking some courses or reading up to become a personal trainer for others? You should be able to earn more. -
Those Banglas won't have the intelligence to compete with you in that area one... Really...Originally posted by silversurfer_41:I'd love to, since i think i wont survive long here... maybe 2-3yrs? i wont be surprised if they start to take in WHSO who are FT or FW... the locals have to fight with the low pay cut imposed by the FT and company.. -
Singaporeans still do not grow up to be united in asking for the government to be accountable in that any policies should be for the people and by the people so that it will not end up serving only its own narrow personal or party interest.Originally posted by silversurfer_41:that is true. some companies have the attitude of take it or leave it. but still it depends on the locals to accept the pay cut. mainly business... yes you can upgrade and so, but are you willing to take pay cut plunge? so the answer would be to take a single skilled FW with a specific cert for the job. cheaper as well to manage.
Without evolving such a common objective among the people the people themselves will always be the small fish being eaten by the big fish as posted in another thread.
As we have witnessed many past policies were hypocritically pushed down our throats whether we the people are the eventually beneficially.
Nearly all that the government has been doing for many years were aimed finally in creating its own limited and superficial success so that they could tell the world it is successful. It is too shallow an objective which is not in-depth aimed at serving the people.
When found wrong, Singaporeans often failed to act as one - united to act as one. Instead the people seem to have been thoroughly brainwashed for many years that they cannot think. Even in wrongs like the NKF or the retirement CPF drawdown age, people are taken for granted and their outcry or objection to unfair deprivation of their own personal property was being set aside by legalistic passing of law to persist in wrong self-centred and self-serving policy to avoid government's own problem it failed to solve over many years of bankrupting of people's CPF by its HDB.
Today we the people reap what we sow as they have not been supportive of their right but instead frequently arguing among themselves like yo-yo which allows the government to engage in assumptions and untruths that only make the government even more determine to take people for granted.
If a policy is wrongful like unbridled opening of FT floodgate the people ought to speak with one clear voice and not with some saying yes some say but. Let the government earn their keep by convincing the people any particular policy is really beneficial people and not continue to take people for granted by coming with hypocrisy like pragmatism or "no free lunch" to avoid all problems and issues.
A divided people does not deserve the best from democracy. Only when people are totally united in presenting problems as they are instead of some speaking yes and some saying but. Let the convincing of policy come from the government. Let the ministers be good effective leaders who could show their talents in overcoming all doubts and not do it for the government.
If we want democracy we as people must do the right stuff otherwise we do not deserve a good government at all. The starting point is the forummers now as they appear thanks to internet to hold the sway eventually to truths and change. So I ask all people to stay firm on their objective views and not allow government to take them for granted. They must have resolve and good quality to bring about change. They ought to hold good views and good thinking to encourage a democratically elected government to serve the people - government for the people and by the people without compromise by hypocrisy as seen happening once too often. -
And so, my fellow Singaporeans, ask not what your country can do for you but ask, what you can do for your country.
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To ask this question is to expect the people to let the government do what it likes so that people should stay mum.Originally posted by fr33domfighter:And so, my fellow Singaporeans, ask not what your country can do for you but ask, what you can do for your country.
The better duty of citizens is to act as one collectively so that the government will be more mindful of NKF and all the serious problems created by all sorts of assumptions and theoretical pragmatism or excuses to deny problems without solutions.
People could achieve their duty of asking not what the country (not to confuse with government) can do for them. They should constantly keep in mind they reap what they sow. They must be effective in "holding the government to fulfill its duties and responsibilities instead of speaking for the government all the time to cover up their wrongs.
Why can't the government earn its keep for they have elected to carry out their duties and responsibility without compromise - to be a government by the people (responsive to feedbacks) and for the people (to benefit truly the people not explain away all problems and issues like a big fish shallowing the small fish) -
agree lor.Originally posted by qlqq9:Friend, this fellow is still in the stage of growing up. Many times many of those in the stage of growing up love to prove they are right (without having thoughts about reality and facts of life)and so forth by not knowing that it takes lots of "she hui jing yan" for one to know the truth. Gazelle will continue, persistently acts as a pain in the neck when people disagree with him, and I see this in eagle.
Also, I suspect he is a transformer cartoon maniac.
from a gazelle it transformed into an eagle. Animal instincts. Hope not too much of animal instinct in his postings from now onwards. -
Both of you can try harder on your baseless allegations. Yawns. Why talk only when you have no true basis for your claims?Originally posted by reddressman:agree lor.
Also, I suspect he is a transformer cartoon maniac.
from a gazelle it transformed into an eagle. Animal instincts. Hope not too much of animal instinct in his postings from now onwards.
Since you like to play with nicks, why don't I say that reddressman is a guy who goes to changi in a red dress
Sigh, another gazelle style poster, cannot defend point/answer doubtful questions then resort to personal attacks. Typical. -
What you described above is so common nowadays. It is people who have been round see reality and facts of such happening, very sad!Originally posted by reddressman:I swear to you, I witnessed in a company, where it awarded a project to a new citizen.
He was from somewhere down the isle of the indian ocean.
Although new citizen, he basically is still associate only with people from the indian ocean. He setup a company and got a lobang from a person who awards contracts. Guess what, that person who awarded him contracrt is also from the ocean. and also at least a PR.
that is not all. This ocean guy hires foreigners and PRs and put to the project.
Except for his new citizen status, all of his employees sent to the project site are from the ocean and non sgrean. I thus have a question that is it true that a company in sg need not hire many citizens as long as there are PRs hired? Why I ask this is because the published news uses the terminology of Resident which means PRs and citizens with no distinguishing of how many citizens are involved.
The boss from the ocean also charge himself as a headcount to the project.
I think he is smart. Although he generally does nothing in the project, on paper he can say that he has deployed a citizen to the project.
So, he has 1 PR and 6 oceanias deployed in the project. And really, I do not think there is many more citizens in his company. Based on this ratio, it seems like 16% is citizen and 84 % are non citizens.
Thus, I would like to seek someone here the help to check on this info on the behalf of all sg forummers here who would like to know.
And I cannot reveal the sector his company is earning money from. For the fear of my personal happiness. u know wat i mean right?
that sector , he also can earn easy money like this. this is how @##@$ we really are.
btw, the people he hired from oceania is also learner of the skills required. on the job. free training with salary and tour de sangapoo -
Precisely, that is the way I look at it as well.Originally posted by silversurfer_41:Actually the numbers that the government gave or the perception given to us is rather on the wrong side. yeah it does worry me as a citizen as more and more FTs are filling up in our labour force.
I actually based myself on experience rather than numbers provided by statisticians because not all figures are accurate. in my coming 2 working yrs, i experienced job hopping due to FTs, my worse being a driver for a local seafood delivery, where i was told to leave when the company found 2 new FT drivers.
Now my current job based offshore, i was even surprised when my pay is almost the same of the FT construction worker here! I used to ask around for a min 1.7k for starters but now seeing the situation, I resigned myself to lowly 1.3k... to compare head to head, it would be a big difference, the FT construction worker earns 1.2k, no cpf, no house bills(living in company Dorm),free transport, free meals! compared to us who have a number of bills and loans to sustain...
Having a diploma is like the new o level, the degree is the new diploma... but to me and maybe some of you, skill work and experience is also a valubale asset to our resume.
the government has made a mistake somewhere. i do feel discriminated as a singaporean in singapore. -
Don't communicate with him for he so crave our attention just to spite us. He is just an ill mannered kid going through growing pain at our expense. He is so self righteous that I think he is not worthy.Originally posted by reddressman:agree lor.
Also, I suspect he is a transformer cartoon maniac.
from a gazelle it transformed into an eagle. Animal instincts. Hope not too much of animal instinct in his postings from now onwards. -
eagle, those figure r not really true.
to date, i as a fresh grad have not been working for 3 months already.
those figure can be against me everytime i went for interviews.
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He keeps attacking us yet point fingers at us. Just imagine if he joins PAP, ha ha, what would you think will happen?Originally posted by reddressman:agree lor.
Also, I suspect he is a transformer cartoon maniac.
from a gazelle it transformed into an eagle. Animal instincts. Hope not too much of animal instinct in his postings from now onwards. -
You haven't point out how I attacked you.Originally posted by qlqq9:He keeps attacking us yet point fingers at us. Just imagine if he joins PAP, ha ha, what would you think will happen?
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Now, more and more people are proving him wrong. Ha ha ha! REality and facts of life cannot at all times base on figures and numbers. For eg, figures and numbers are applicable when one wants to set up business, dealing with accounts, stock and so on.Originally posted by 798:eagle, those figure r not really true.
to date, i as a fresh grad have not been working for 3 months already.
those figure can be against me everytime i went for interviews. -
Did you see the reasons I pointed out?Originally posted by 798:eagle, those figure r not really true.
to date, i as a fresh grad have not been working for 3 months already.
those figure can be against me everytime i went for interviews.
The figures need not be faked. But it does not fully show the true picture, something which I have been claiming all along. There are a variety of reasons, one of which I have mentioned is industry, and another of which is that the largest employer in Singapore is the public service, which mainly employ locals/citizens. Just SAF alone has 60.5k regular soldiers, and this most likely excludes the admin stuff. Imagine with MAS, EDB, GIC, DSO, and many other govt agencies, how many workers out of the 1.25 mil citizens are left to work in private companies that we see outside?
Again, supposed there are 1000 locals with 4% unemployed (40 pple). Supposed you were to choose 0.2% (20 pple) out. Do you think such a sample size will correctly give an estimation of the situation at hand? It is only qlqq9, whom with a poor understanding of statistics, who prefers to call it a form of attacking him when I talk logic. To him, his experience is logic. Everything else must be illogical. -
So how many people have proved my figures wrong? Please point it outOriginally posted by qlqq9:Now, more and more people are proving him wrong. Ha ha ha! REality and facts of life cannot at all times base on figures and numbers. For eg, figures and numbers are applicable when one wants to set up business, dealing with accounts, stock and so on.
How many people out of the 10k odd visitors a day tell us of their experience here?
And finally, how have I not explained what to you your so called reality and facts of life? Please point out again.
Seems like making baseless allegations is a hobby of yours.
Finally, qlqq9. This thread is based on figures. This thread is also talking about figures. Experience plays no role in proving figures wrong, only calculations and analysis do. -
Well, in the calculations of employment, silversurfer is considered employed as well right?Originally posted by qlqq9:Precisely, that is the way I look at it as well.
If you are so experienced, why don't you post in this more related thread your complaints? http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=299064