Than they only have themselves to blame isn't it?Originally posted by kilua:I think you failed to look deeper into the real lives of Singaporean. Beneath this glitzy appearance of Singaporean wealth is..... large amt of debt.
I can see many people buying cars when financially they shouldnt be...
I can see people having to buy expensive 4 room HDB flats that exhaust all their CPF...and the irony after buying such a big flat? Only 1 of the 3 rooms are used in the flat. Do Singaporeans really need to buy such big flats?
You have to look deeper... Singaporeans only appear to have it good.. in a mountain of debt... and i doubt they would have enough for retirement, considering almost all their CPF goes to the flat.... that is if they dont get the sack when they hit 40.
based on your argument, are you saying that if Singapore doesnt have PAP, allow press freedom, full democracy, minister take a pay cut etc, Singaporeans will all be cash rich and none will be in debt?Originally posted by kilua:I think you failed to look deeper into the real lives of Singaporean. Beneath this glitzy appearance of Singaporean wealth is..... large amt of debt.
I can see many people buying cars when financially they shouldnt be...
I can see people having to buy expensive 4 room HDB flats that exhaust all their CPF...and the irony after buying such a big flat? Only 1 of the 3 rooms are used in the flat. Do Singaporeans really need to buy such big flats?
You have to look deeper... Singaporeans only appear to have it good.. in a mountain of debt... and i doubt they would have enough for retirement, considering almost all their CPF goes to the flat.... that is if they dont get the sack when they hit 40.
Why not? If government stops sucking all the people's monies with all kinds of direct and indirect taxes and profiteering schemes cooked up by its GLCs, people will have more disposable incomes and with higher disposable incomes more people will be able to go into businesses and keep the economic wheel turning instead of idling in the state idle surpluses which slow down the economy.Originally posted by Gazelle:based on your argument, are you saying that if Singapore doesnt have PAP, allow press freedom, full democracy, minister take a pay cut etc, Singaporeans will all be cash rich and none will be in debt?
Care to tell us what is happening in the US right now?
There are always people who cannot manage their finances. Immediate gratification is easier.Originally posted by elindra:Than they only have themselves to blame isn't it?
If you can't afford, don't buy it. It reminds me of this story my friend told me about this couple who went to the bank to get a car loan. Their combined income is 3k and yet the car they want to purchase is a BMW
If they get into a huge debt due to their own stupidity, they can only blame themselves and not anyone else.
I didnt mentioned any of those in my original post and of course i dont think democracy and press freedom are miracle pills. But the lack of press freedom and the climate of fear stifles healthy debate on issues affecting Singaporeans.Originally posted by Gazelle:based on your argument, are you saying that if Singapore doesnt have PAP, allow press freedom, full democracy, minister take a pay cut etc, Singaporeans will all be cash rich and none will be in debt?
Care to tell us what is happening in the US right now?
MM Lee must change his own mindset. One man cannot make the economy no matter how brilliant.Lee Kuan Yew one foot already in the grave, how to change mindset?
Originally posted by kilua:There are always people who cannot manage their finances. Immediate gratification is easier.
Thats why there is a need to force Singaporeans to save for retirement, which CPF was originally supposed to do. Now CPF has become sort of housing fund and there is nothing to fall back on if they live beyond their means, unlike other countries that have pensions or other forms of retirement fund such as superannuation.
Now the state of retirement planning in Singapore is the Govt "trusts" Singaporeans from all walks of life to acquire knowledge on investing and make plans for retirement. They also trust Singaporeans not to overspend and have enough in their later years.This is a stark contrast in their stand when they first started the CPF, where they believed Singaporeans would not be disciplined to save for retirement.
What could have made such a big paradigm shift? CPF No Enough?![]()
Pensions problems arise when govts are in control of the money. Separate from the state,e.g. Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan which has average about 11 percent., there are no problems at allOriginally posted by elindra:![]()
![]()
So the government should be held liable for the stupidity of the people who do not manage their own finances and plan for their own future?
What happened to being responsible for your own life. The onus of one's life and retirement should be in one's hand.
This i disagree with you. When a small handful of people have a problem, it could be due to individual failure. When a large majority have the same problem, its very likely the problem comes from a systematic failure of some policies.
Why didnt the former Transport Minister see the implication of raising car ownership? If they had built a transport system like Tokyo, where the MRT travels faster than the car (no kidding... their MRT have multiple lanes and the express service skips many stations) and also their highly extensive railway network, fewer people would consider buying a car. In fact, most people in Tokyo dont buy a car, when they well could afford to.
The CPF was also a plan to allow everyone to have roof over their heads instead of having to rent.
Wasnt that HDB purpose? To sell affordable flats on long term leasehold in return for letting the state acquire public land as it wishes? Being the largest supplier of land, being able to give housing space to "8 million people". the govt can influence and set the price of HDB flats with its large supply of land.
The government is now slowly changing the CPF rules so that Singaporeans have to take more responsiblity upon themselves.
This is quite a self contradictory statement when the govt tried to introduce annuities recently. They argue the old people would not know how to mange their money hence the need to force Singaporeans to buy annuities For those who are still in the workforce, people from all walks of life should be trusted to acquire knowledge on investments and make retirement plans.
I think the govt still believes the people cant manage the money on their own, but CPF and retirement has become a hot political potato due to its dismal returns that it want to pass the responsibility back to the people.
Annuities is to address another hot political potato - some the old and aged not being taken care and having to pick cans for a living.
Pension? That is like current tax payers supporting the old
And if you haven't heard about the pension crisis now that the countries under that scheme are facing that they now have lower birth rates meaning less tax payers to support the aging population. It doesn't mean that you will get the same support for your pension when you are old without savings. In fact, they are looking at compulsion into private savings for retirement tooSo isn't this LPPL?
If you want to read more about Pension problems, you can read them here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4462404.stm
Originally posted by elindra:If you can't afford, don't buy it. It reminds me of this story my friend told me about this couple who went to the bank to get a car loan. Their combined income is 3k and yet the car they want to purchase is a BMW
Are you also saying that Singaporeans should continue to be spoon fed by the government and they should not be expected to think of themselves?Originally posted by kilua:This i disagree with you. When a small handful of people have a problem, it could be due to individual failure. When a large majority have the same problem, its very likely the problem comes from a systematic failure of some policies.
The govt shouldnt regulate on everything, but something as important as retirement, the govt should take active steps to make sure Singaporeans have enough and not leave them to their own devices.Originally posted by Gazelle:Are you also saying that Singaporeans should continue to be spoon fed by the government and they should not be expected to think of themselves?
So what about the subprime foreclosure crisis happenin in USA right now? What is your opinion on that?
Somewhere LKY has said something to rebut western criticism that he one-man showmanship system does not work and will crumble as soon as he leaves office.Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:Lee Kuan Yew one foot already in the grave, how to change mindset?
Like I said I can't comment on the Australian systemOriginally posted by kilua:While not all problems can be intervened, excessive spending, retirement savings are problems the govt should deal with. For instance, the credit card debt problem is lesser than US because the controls on credit cards are better in Singapore.
I dont think there is a developed country that "trusts" its citizens to make their own retirement plans. Most have a national plan to address retirement.
In my opinion, letting Singaporean using ALL the CPF for housing is a mistake.If they had to fork out cash, they would have been more prudent in their purchase.
Yes in Tokyo parking is more expensive than the car.Parking lots would cost 250 to 600 depending on location.but the cost of ownership is still about the same as Singapore as there is no Coe,ARF or ERP.If you factor the higher wages , my original point still stands.
If Singapore had a transport system supported mainly by trains with good network like tokyo, most Singaporeans wont need to buy a car.Or at least there is a compelling reason not to.
You got to be kidding that the credit card problem is lesser in the USA because of better controls. There was so much outcry about how easy students get into debt because of easy credit to students. They start them young to get into debt. I don't think I need to google the information for you on this.
Yes all nations have some form of retirement but most citizens overseas I know of do not rely on the retirement plan the government have for them because that is not enough. As well most of pensions etc equates high income taxes. I believe if no one will start kaopehing and kaopuing, I'm sure the government here will implement that.
Even for those overseas who have to finance their housing loans, not all are prudent. Anyway the government has already implemented and I believe are going to make further changes to using CPF for housing. There have been many changes to it to make Singaporeans more aware of this cost.
Actually a lot of Singaporeans don't need cars. They just want face and that a car is a status symbol. We do not have parking problems like in Japan and the traffic is still faster than in Japan. That already gives them reason to. Also does it make sense to make the train system bigger than it already is? We only have around 4.5mil people I believe whereas Tokyo has like 12 mil people. See the difference there? I believe there are still improvments to be made to our transport system but not till that extend.
I hope you are not comparing to third world countries. The govt is stuck in the mentality that a $120,000 flat is cheap. In every city in the outskirts, there are always cheaper housing. Considering that its on 99 year lease and the increased lifespan of Singaporeans, a HDB flat owner would definitely see depreciation in his flat in his lifetime.
And Singaporeans are stuck with inefficient HDB in meeting housing needs. In other countries, its always easy to buy a flat in a good location but of smaller size. In Singapore, Singaporeans are forced to buy 4 room flats unless they have a much lower combined income.
I'm comparing to 1st world countries like Britain and USA where poverty IS rampant too and the slums and ghettos thrive. I don't need to compare to 3rd world countries. That is another problem altogether.
The idea of the HDB is to provide a roof over the citizens head and not for them to make a profit out of it. If you want to, don't buy a resale flat. But from what is seen so far, it's the old resale flats making people a lot of money
How is HDB inefficient in meeting housing needs? My cousin used to live in Hong Kong. Sure the location is fantastic but she is much happier now with her flat in Sembawang because of the space! Her apartment was barely sufficient for her family of 4 in Hong Kong and her complain was everything is way expensive so they moved back. Btw both she and her husband are top lvl executives with combined income of more than 20k per month.
What do you mean Singaporeans are forced to buy 4 room flats? They have a choice. They can buy 3 room flats from the resale market if they want to and are past the wage scale.
I think the Australian system of Superannuation is doing well.Whether you want to manage your own money or go into a pension fund, there is a choice. This aspect i think is much better than CPF. Its a shame no academic had come up research to suggest for better alternatives. I have googled on this NUS Professor mukul asher and he has lots of views on the CPF system. Some are critical of the current system, so i doubt they would get into the "State Times"
Can't comment as I am not sure about the Australian system
What i meant was, there is no problem of state failing to set enough provisions for pensions, which is widespread in many state pensions.
Investments always carry risks .After these losses, The Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan performance should be still better than the CPF/CPF members?Taking minimal like the Singapore system also means that their savings would be eaten by inflation.
I think the Australian system is better than Singapore's system. Pension or individual choice, you could decide. I feel what hampers the govt from making the optimal choice for Singaporean is political cost. Thats why academics e.g. Mukul Asher who have the time and expertise to propose alternative should be allowed to challenge the govt in the newspapers. Its a wonder why he hasnt wrote in.... or is it the climate of fear?![]()