Saudi king 'pardons rape victim'
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that's your view but you need to learn how to keep it to yourself. saudis dont affect anything in singapore, they dont live in singapore nor do singaporeans live in saudi arabia. saudis were not singapore's colonial masters or vice versa. saudis aren't singaporeans' neighbours. etcOriginally posted by fymk:Well in my view as a woman, it is wrong. Their laws but I don't have to agree with them - I can say what I think of it- repugnantly disgusting . Nothing wrong there right? My thoughts my opinions , all mine.
I don't see why my gender should be treated otherwise. Now tell me what so wrong with it?
Oh yeah blindly argue what? You already made a mistake with your comprehension of the situation which makes me laugh.
saudi-singapore relationship is almost insignificant. had this not hit the headlines perhaps you wouldn't even know that had happened. this hit the headlines in anglo american media, consequently in their colonies news media. voila! the colonial servants following their masters' que go on about
1. freedom of speech etc opinion being their rights , human rights blah blah blah
2. reprinting copying pasting the articles news AND VIEWS from their masters' media.
does it dawn upon any of you such freedom loving uppity fellas that uk usa australia etc are some fo the worst criminals in world history. usa - only country to use nukes on civilians. uk-endless list, like usa; had 1/4 of world as its colony. also note even TODAY, usa canada, australia nz and to an extent south africa are inhabited by people of anglo origin. they killed maimed displaced and exterminated those people and act AS IF they belong to those lands. a factually incorrect assertion by anglo media propaganda and govt's. -
Extrinsic asked me for my opinion.Originally posted by protonhybrid:who asked for your opinion mate?
if i were to give my opinions on everything frankly/with absolute freedom, i'll be booted out of this forum in no time. singapore is NOT a free place, and yet you a singaporean presumably touts your right
to freedom of speech expression blah blah blah
Who asked for yours?
I am in Australia - do as the romans do .
In Singapore, I also do as the romans do . Singapore allows a certain degree of freedom on speeches made by WOMEN and MEN as long as it does not incite sedition or to the government's view , dissent .
Compare it to your precious Saudi Arabia - take women out of the picture, they don't have any right to anything - no choice nothing . -
wow I must be lucky then since I am colored, a woman and employed in Australia.Originally posted by protonhybrid:that's your view but you need to learn how to keep it to yourself. saudis dont affect anything in singapore, they dont live in singapore nor do singaporeans do. saudis were not singapore's colonial masters or vice versa. saudis aren't singaporeans' neighbours. etc
saudi-singapore relationship is almost insignificant. had this not hit the headlines perhaps you wouldn't even know that had happened. this hit the headlines in anglo american media, consequently in their colonies news media. voila! the colonial servants following their masters' que go on about
1. freedom of speech etc opinion being their rights , human rights blah blah blah
2. reprinting copying pasting the articles news AND VIEWS from their masters' media.
does it dawn upon any of you such freedom loving uppity fellas that uk usa australia etc are some fo the worst criminals in world history. usa - only country to use nukes on civilians. uk-endless list, like usa, had 1/4 of world as its colony. also note even TODAY, usa canada, australia nz and to an extent south africa are inhabited by people of anglo origin. they killed maimed displaced and exterminated those people and act AS IF they belong to those lands. a factually incorrect assertion by anglo media propaganda and govt's.
I don't give a crap about their past . It's the modern times now. In case you don't know - there are Equal Employment Opportunities commissioners installed around Australia to ensure equity to all .
I don't really give a crap about USA , ain't my country . I don't like their foreign policies - they are absolute crap but even USA has something about it that is good like entertainment from hollywood etc.
All I know , I enjoy the freedom of being a woman, having to right to walk about without my father guarding me from the other males as though they are ANIMALS, have a right to employment and career pathways, have a choice of having a family and being a career woman etc.
I prefer to see women having choices over what they want to do . If they feel that it is necessary for them to be with a male relative at all times because of their religion - their choice. If they feel they like a guy and they want to know him better thru a date - their choice.
If a muslim girl wants to don her hijab , by all means . If a muslim girl doesn't want to don her hijab , by all means again. All she needs to worry is about her family but even they cannot force her with life and death threats, not some law that lashes her for not wearing an abaya. Even the muslims in Singapore have that freedom. I don't mind a woman wearing whatever she wants as long as she has a choice. I am not some anglophile who sees an abaya and yell oppression. Some women made a choice to don it , fine with me. The key thing for me is that " as long as the women have a choice" .
Say what you will about anglo countries, they may be all bad to you but women's rights is something they have good going for them amongst all the things they do. Singapore too. -
i dont think you even know what you're own position is!Originally posted by fymk:It is as good as asking why there is a special olympics and why is there is normal olympics.
Answer to that : Anatomical-physiological function of different categories of people.
But of course there are always women competing against men in areas where there is no physiological advantage. As in ...JOBS.
since there are physiological dissimilarities between these two groups, by your own admission, how can they be considered equal? the topic is not about "jobs" whatever that may refer to in this discussion, but about pardoning a female rape victim in saudi arabia. who was sentenced to lashes for violating that country's law.
quite simple eh? -
Originally posted by Spartans:
Protonhybrid cannot attack on discrimination against women, all he can do is plaster a label of colonialism on it and call it western oppression .
Finally I come to the conclusion that protonhyrid is an ardent supporter of Saudi Arabia male-dominated Government. And high chance that he supports the gender discrimination himself.
He feverishly tried to attack fymk's view and opinion on the issue on [b]discrimination against women.
Let me tell you something, even it is the laws (Saudi laws) does not mean it is morally/ethically/logically correct. If you want to say I am imposing my view on the Saudi, so be it.
You are just one male Muslim who believe Saudi/Sharia laws against the women is fair and right. So be it. It is your opinion. To me, the Saudi/Sharia laws are extremely discrimintive towards the women gender. This is my opinion.
oh you mentioned that you do not believe in the term 'humane'. Well I'm afriad that is just your ill-pecerption. Even if you dun believe in 'humane treatment' does not mean it does not exist. Simple as that.[/b]
Bring in Cyrus the Great of Persia- and he says that there is no improvement in UN documents.
Bring in a country like Singapore - he says we are colonial servants.
Everything about his argument is circular.
Basically this guy wants discrimination against women to stand. How he faces his mother , I have no idea. Bash his mom up if she wants freedom?
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second i pointed to factual errors in your post (or whoever else posted that kurdish tale) but i dont have time to google them. i do know honour killings take place in arab world, as low earnings are reported by female in singapore or anglophone world compared to their male counterparts REGULARLY.Originally posted by fymk:Just shows how much time you spend comprehending simple things. You even spelt my name wrong.
I was replying sarcastically to OM . If you don't understand what sarcasm means, check the dictionary.
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first that is unimportant. let's discuss original issue of this thread.
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Rapes in USA and other western countries - they need evidence such as DNA etc. Not the mandatory 4 male muslim witnesses. So vast difference.
You want honor killing mentions in the Arab world ? Google Zahra Ezzo aka Zahra Al-Azza from Syria. Google Palestine honor killings or the Abu Ghanem case. I am pretty sure that it is not isolated to the kurds only.
what is your point though?
and about the difference between legal systems in usa and ksa, how does it matter to the VICTIM that in usa you are FAR more likely to be raped than in ksa? -
I am talking about discrimination against women . I want women to be treated as men are treated. You are talking about a law that discriminates against women. So here I am. Like I said their law makes it right for them but it does not make it right in MY opinion AS a WOMAN.Originally posted by protonhybrid:i dont think you even know what you're own position is!
since there are physiological dissimilarities between these two groups, by your own admission, how can they be considered equal? the topic is not about "jobs" whatever that may refer to in this discussion, but about pardoning a female rape victim in saudi arabia. who was sentenced to lashes for violating that country's law.
quite simple eh?
hey if a woman wishes to compete against a guy in sports with the same rules, her choice but it also depends on the person who organises it.
There is a reason why they segregate certain sports out - no one wants to hear accusations of molestations in contact sports or physiological advantages. Less the trouble , better.
Physiologically ,women differ from men. The equality in your eyes can only be achieved by nature and nature have to make everyone andrygynous . Everyone capable of bearing children. Everyone capable of standing up to pee with the same appendage on everyone else. -
.. what other countries did or did not do in the past or the present.... it is an atrocity to sentence a woman to 6 months jail and 200 strokes for spending time with a guy in a car... crapz... big time....
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Low wages - why would you compare low wages to rape? No one in their right minds will do that . I earn the same as the guy ranked in the same position in Australia . So what low wages? Oh I actually won a job interview in Australia and the other person competing against me was a male. So what can you say about that?Originally posted by protonhybrid:second i pointed to factual errors in your post (or whoever else posted that kurdish tale) but i dont have time to google them. i do know honour killings take place in arab world, as low earnings are reported by female in singapore or anglophone world compared to their male counterparts REGULARLY.
what is your point though?
and about the difference between legal systems in usa and ksa, how does it matter to the VICTIM that in usa you are FAR more likely to be raped than in ksa?
Oh Singapore? They give more to the men who served NS = that is the right of NS men - I am not about to argue against that - those guys gave 2.5 years of their lives serving the country. They deserve every penny of it and more for their years of service.
Even rape statistics everywhere is underreported due to the victim feeling that she is to be blamed , shamed and facing her attacker again triggers horrible memories. Rape is about taking a person's control away.
Saudi Arabia - the only way to justice is to procure 4 male muslim witnesses who WITNESS the rape. If a woman reports it , she is not only subjected to humiliation and shaming her family for being "dishonoured", she is also akin to getting charged with adultery if she cannot produce 4 male muslim witnesses who saw the act take place. The woman is expected to fight til death to "protect " her honor.
Modernised Countries - the victim can seek justice by going to the police . Getting a rape kit test done, crime scene investigation if any ,and then going to trial.
Rape tends to be specially heinous because it is totally tears a woman inside out emotionally. Be it a Saudi Arabian woman or a caucasian woman or a chinese woman
I read somewhere that in the Arab world, they have to jail those poor women who have been raped so that their families don't get to them. Even if the family wants them out ,they sign an assurance that they will not kill the rape victim. Even if they do sign the assurance , they still kill her anyway for shaming them. And what does that get them? 2-3 months in prison for the killer and maybe a huge celebration in the village.
Why they kill the rape victim in the Arab world? Because if she shamed the family, her relatives will be octracised - her brothers ridiculed. So her blood cleanses all.
Take it on the other side , if a woman kills a man in the Arab world even defending herself, she dies anyways. -
... this is the 21 century and the new millennium and yet we have people living in the middle ages... why? More importantly is... are YOU living in the middle ages and why is that if you are?
The answer? ... ancients beliefs... -
... it does not matter what you believe in... as long as it is ancient... it is suspect...
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well it's been proven wrong. it IS discrimination although one i like and support frankly speaking. look above.Originally posted by fymk:I live in Australia. There are nude beaches. If a woman wishes to be topless , she can make her own choice and go to a nude beach ( an appointed venue) . The point being that she has a choice she can make on her own - she can be topless sunbathing without affecting others who are conservative.
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can she do it in any public place? what's the use of a restricted zone ONLY for topless women? that's not freedom. that exists in all countries of world - somewhere in your home or somewhere else i suppose you can go topless even in singpaore or elsewhere too. why not entire country or at least public places in entire country? reeeks of what you accuse saudis of!How is that in any way discriminating when you consider the other people in the environment?
again you pass judgment and your values on this issue instead of arguing logically. what is decent clothing? i may ask (angrily) how dare you call topless women 'indecently" dressed?
I prefer being decently clothed what I feel comfortable in. It is the same choice I make as the woman who wants to sunbath topless. If a woman don't wish to see naked bodies or expose herself , she have the right not to go into a nude beach.
IF a woman doesn't wish to see naked body, she can close her eyes. but public should allow SAME laws for men and women BY YOUR LOGIC, then why do you call women topless in public locations like sports venues, maybe MCG, indecently dressed but not men?
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It ain't discrimination , it is choices one make in consideration of others. Same goes for Singapore.
So pick another discrimination topic . -
i dont know what actually happened. but IF your account is reliable, then OF COURSE the rapists were wrong, dont you see those who raped or for that matter committed certain crimes would try any tricks out of their hats to free themselves, to acquit their criminal selves mate.Originally posted by fymk:So basically honor killing in the UK is alright in your books? Because it is part of the culture so the perpetrators have a right to go off scot free even though the UK is pretty specific about women rights? That is quite a sickening thought. [/quote]
IF (a big if) it's part of the culture, so be it! you're correct my friend.
that is sickening in your head, some others may be not. that netherlands has legalized drugs like marijuana is sickening to some people, that singapore or usa executes people is sickening to some people, the foundation of such countries as oz, kiwis, canucks, or yankeeland is sickening to many others.
i'd suppose you find them all sickening eh?
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And reality speaking:
There was a pack rape case of a caucasian girl in Sydney by muslim brothers - the K brothers. They shielded themselves saying it was their culture and the girl was "tempting" them by her dressing. The court transcript was sickening.
So because they claim defence of their "culture"and "religious" upbringing, should they be let off the hook when they imposed themselves on another human being from ANOTHER CULTURE , who was unaware of their " culture".
Tell me who is in the wrong here?
anyway you again showed signs of logical inconsistency, you talked about "muslim brothers" raping "caucasian girl" which is logically two separate lines of dividing human beings. one is using religion, another is using ethnicity. you need to be more consistent my friend when you use division of human beings as a tool to further your goals whatever those goals may be. -
Originally posted by protonhybrid:
I am pretty sure that in Africa , some tribes go topless with women.
an she do it in any public place? what's the use of a restricted zone ONLY for topless women? that's not freedom. that exists in all countries of world - somewhere in your home or somewhere else i suppose you can go topless even in singpaore or elsewhere too. why not entire country or at least public places in entire country? reeeks of what you accuse saudis of!
I like the idea of wearing clothes, it gets pretty cold you know?
again you pass judgment and your values on this issue instead of arguing logically. what is decent clothing? i may ask (angrily) how dare you call topless women 'indecently" dressed? Twisted Evil
IF a woman doesn't wish to see naked body, she can close her eyes. but public should allow SAME laws for men and women BY YOUR LOGIC, then why do you call women topless in public locations like sports venues, maybe MCG, indecently dressed but not men?
It is all about choices. Still the woman has a choice to go to a nude beach and air her wares .
It is also about convenience - I don't think the law wants to deal with complaints of molestation if a guy accidentally brushes against a naked woman especially in a CROWDED PLACE.
It is easier for them to keep an eye on a designated location than everywhere else.
If you are yearning to see naked women to serve your sick fanatasies - go buy playboy. -
well okay but who's this robert spencer? i suppose he's a nonmuslim and in fact a bloody anglo (definitely from usa if i get my intuition right).Originally posted by silvernitrate:Sorry I misread the article, you are right in this case she was punished because of being accompanied by a stranger. I apologize.
You have to understand that I'm a bit against the laws against woman in arab countries and I've been wanting to share my points.
I wanted to share that most rape victims in arab countries tend to be afraid to go to the authorities because of shame or the accusation of zina.
Rape in Islam: Blaming the Victim
By Robert Spencer
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"Traditional Islamic law, which is still very much in force in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Sudan, most (if not all) of post-Taliban Afghanistan, and elsewhere, completely disregards the testimony of women in cases of a sexual nature. Aside from physical evidence, the only way to establish rape is by the testimony of four male witnesses (who, by the way, must be Muslims in good standing) who actually saw the act itself. Without these witnesses and a confession from the accused rapist, the victim will stand condemned by her very accusation: she wasnÂ’t raped, so she must be guilty of zina."
This is what I was trying to point out and yes I have to agree with you that I misread the post.
I really apologize, my mistake.
how can you rely on a bloody nonmuslim anglo who's waging wars on muslim countries and even against all muslims IF THEY COULD, threatening other muslim countries for your information?
that's my question to you.
why can't you get a different source? -
You wanted an example of how religion got used . Well there is where religion was used as a defence . It is also about showing you reverse oppression which is opposite of the western oppression you like to speak about. Hey don't hit the messenger just because it didn't turn out as you expected .Originally posted by protonhybrid:i dont know what actually happened. but IF your account is reliable, then OF COURSE the rapists were wrong, dont you see those who raped or for that matter committed certain crimes would try any tricks out of their hats to free themselves, to acquit their criminal selves mate.
anyway you again showed signs of logical inconsistency, you talked about "muslim brothers" raping "caucasian girl" which is logically two separate lines of dividing human beings. one is using religion, another is using ethnicity. you need to be more consistent my friend when you use division of human beings as a tool to further your goals whatever those goals may be.
Don't you yourself like to compare USA/UK/western countries as oppressors of culture? Well this is one where the muslim boys choose to use their religion as a defence and excuse to rape a caucasian girl because of her dressing ( if I am not wrong).Feel free to look up the case.
I know people who like to use the excuse of divisions when they cannot win a case. Race cards have been played on the caucasian community by some who shame the rest of their brethen. Race cards have been played on "colored people" such as me as well by some groups of ethnicities just because I told them to follow the rules of the hospital. -
Honor killing? So what you are in fact saying is that honor killing should be allowed ? Even some Islamic scholars are trying to prevent honor killing ...even the grand mufti of syria spoke against it in Zahra's case. Her case was heard because her husband was truly in love with her and very upset about her murder. She was murdered for being raped . Her husband married her to save her from being killed. Her brother killed her anyways. Her husband himself , for trying to get justice for her and other women, is octracised by HIS VILLAGE.Originally posted by protonhybrid:IF (a big if) it's part of the culture, so be it! you're correct my friend.
that is sickening in your head, some others may be not. that netherlands has legalized drugs like marijuana is sickening to some people, that singapore or usa executes people is sickening to some people, the foundation of such countries as oz, kiwis, canucks, or yankeeland is sickening to many others.
i'd suppose you find them all sickening eh?
No I beg to differ. If migrants cannot adapt to the current culture of a country - then why even bother migrating? They should stay where they are - where their villages throw a huge party for a person who honor killed a poor woman who was raped . -
[quote=fymk]I asked you to state your case which you did not. So how am I suppose to know what you are referring to? I wish I was psychic and could read minds but alas that is not a gift I have.[/quote]
that's irrelevant to this discussion mate, if you so despair contribute to that thread.As for Saudi Arabia, low rapes doesn't mean anything especially for Saudi Arabia. It is not an open "anglo" country that publishes rape statistics. Women are suppressed there and virginity is prized. And it punishes women for being raped one way or the other . How do you expect women to stand up and report such a crime?
if you've been to saudi arabia you'd know that crimes not only rapes are extremely low in saudi arabia and in fact whole of GCC countries. unlike let's say, usa.
friend let's leave that discussion to the thread dedicated to it. btw singapore is NOT an independent country, it houses and TOTALLY relies on usa and alliance with other anglophone countries for defence, for economy, for technology, for business, for higher education, pretty much every sector in life (also entertainment, etc are also influenced by anglophone countries)
You spoke about a victim yet gave no details . Quit implying Singapore is some colony. It is an independent country.
I am surprised you said that Singapore discriminate against foreigners . Shed some details or else don't give some statement without justification.Well u can think of it this way. The Singaporean guys did their NS . If they wish to marry foreign wives and bring them over fast as citizens - why not?
well you can think of it this way, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, singapore men had different restrictions than WOMEN imposed on them at age 18, would you call that gender discrimination?
I , as a Singaporean female , won't be complaining about that aspect.
then you try to 'repair the damage' by using this act as a cover for ANOTHER instance of 'gender discrimination'?
dont act childish. provide reasonable response as you've been trying to do mostly so far.
Oh I tend to say it when I see bigots with double standards. I provide a female voice to this issue .
Are you female?LOL coming from a guy who stated that all chinese belong to China and implied that all chinese should go back to China.
what do you call inhabitants of china mate? japanese? koreans? hint: it's derived from the word 'china' and ends in 'ese'. therefore naturally all chinese belong nowhere else but china. why else would they be known as chinese if they belong elsewhere?
You don't like the anglo side of it . Spare yourself the suffering and don't come so that we don't hear your complaints especially those without justifications.
as for the rest of the nonsense, can you try to talk more sense than nonsense like you've been doing in this post. i like your earlier posts more. and try keeping the discussion to the topic at hand. -
Ahahhahahah to Protonhybrid
I am a woman talking about women't rights and the Saudi case has a logical link to women being oppressed while you keep bringing in anglo countries and their colonies as a way of diverting the argument to that of western oppression.
Yes it is their law which makes it right for women to be oppressed in their land.
Their law is not right and they are repulsive to me as a woman , not as a person from a modern country .
Women being treated as human beings deserving of respect is right to me and other women.
NO freaking way am I entering Saudi Arabia. I am not about to enter a land where men are allowed to do whatever they want to women as long as there are no male muslim witnesses. So forget that challenge.
We can safely say that rape statistics in Saudi Arabia is low because no woman dares to report a rape for fear of being accused of being an adulterer.
Your mother must be so proud of you for encouraging the killing of women for the so called repugnant honor of men. Your mother must be also proud of you for supporting the oppression of rape victims.
I hope you never have daughters - we certainly would not want to read about the culture of honor killing and how it is right for you to honor kill her because she does not agree to a forced marriage/ she gets raped/ she sees a boy she likes/she dresses in a western way.
You must be from one of those countries which allows such atrocities to happen . Or you must be a male who thinks males are superior to women . Or even both .
You refuse to give your background even when asked but continue to address a women's right issue as though it is just a western idea only.
I am a woman and I can feel Saudi law as an affront to me. Simple. It is my view as a woman .
As for the statement you made about Singapore, isn't Saudi Arabia dependent on the US for oil trading as well? The american companies and european countries control the oil market and oil fuels the world. Saudi Arabia is not the only one with oil.
The Saud family won't be as rich as they are now if they didn't sell oil to the Americans and Brits . They are cautious about offending the religious clerics because of this aspect. Once the oil well dries up , let's see what happens then. -
you were saying indonesia/asena has a matrilineal heritage blah blah and so wouldn't produce "extremists" etc but when those bombings happen you're the same person who change tunes to turn "Them" into villains all the while cherishing your own "type" praising, justifying, supporting them.Originally posted by fymk:Why don't you show me a picture of a woman worker in Singapore first? Let's see what you can come up with a female office worker in skimpy clothing. Let's see what your version of skimpy is .[/quote]
can you do me the favour as i can't find that many pictures right now? i have other things to do to.
yeah you can talk about the ozzie imam all you like, how handsome is he or not, how rich he is or not, how pious he is etc etc etc for all that i care. BUT you talk about Saudi system while not being related to it AT ALL.
The Iman opens his mouth about women and so us women open our mouths about him. Freedom of Speech and his freedom of speech is taken as an example of what he as a religious teacher is telling his congregation and the rest of Australia what some muslims think. No wonder some rapists hide behind the defence of their so called "culture" and shame the rest of their good brethen.
the rest of the 'tripe' you could have spared us by not posting.
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Bali bombing was done by a group of bombers from Jemaah Islamiyah which had links to Al Qaeda. So you were saying again?
You are castigating westernised countries because of some reason.
Are you from the middle east?
Are you muslim?
Or are you just a bystander like the rest of us .
i'm not castigating western countries per se. but anglophone countries must NOT be the role model nor the standard that nonanglophones especially their current/former colonies should use to measure up. -
Who said women rights is an issue of western countries only? It was an ideal which came out of women's suffragettes in 19th and 20th century Europe while ancient cultures such as Persia and China already gave women's rights in history long past . Anglo countries came in late whilst others has tried it and moved on because of males. So most modern countries are readapting it now. Even China now gives the women the same rights after a very long ancient pause .Originally posted by protonhybrid:you were saying indonesia/asena has a matrilineal heritage blah blah and so wouldn't produce "extremists" etc but when those bombings happen you're the same person who change tunes to turn "Them" into villains all the while cherishing your own "type" praising, justifying, supporting them.
i'm not castigating western countries per se. but anglophone countries must NOT be the role model nor the standard that nonanglophones especially their current/former colonies should use to measure up.
However some older cultures still retain their respect towards women. The minangkabaus til now ,has a matriachal system. The Jews respect their women so much on equal standing that Israel actually drafts women into their army. So how come you delegated the rights of women to anglophone countries?
Women rights are an issue for all women regardless of where they are.
In regards to the argument you twisted about SE asian muslims.
Did I say they won't produce extremist? I am saying they have more respect for women than their arab counterparts.
Jemaah Islamiyah is linked to Al Qaeda whose top member is a former Saud who has links to a billionaire oil sheikh. JI is also responsible for the Bali bombings.
Tells you alot right? -
if you cannot understand that we are not in a position to debate on another culture's laws, there is no ending this argument.
Wars have been started over self righteous views such as yours numerous times over the course of history. -
you very cleverly try to insinuate that you know what's right and what's wrong and that inaction over a "wrong" move is worse than taking action. however as you may not know, this is a moot topic, no such thing as right wrong fair unfair, etc actually exists that's equally acceptable to all places, times, ethnicities, religions, countries, socieities, etcOriginally posted by LatecomerX:Who is the "they" are you referring to? I suppose it's not the Arabs as an entirety, but the Arab males who dominate its society. I'm sure if the Arab females were given the same power as their male counterparts, probably through a miracle, the first thing they will do is to abolish those laws that are denying their long-deserved rights as a human.
I don't impose my definition between right and wrong on them, unless you see me killing those Arab judges and rapists there. I'm simply expressing what I feel as a fellow human being for someone who, in my definition, has been treated unfairly on the other side of the world.
Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Say, you have a neighbour whose family is bounded by very conservative values. And one day, you see a girl in their family was brutally injured and covered in wounds at their doorstep. Her brother speaks up for her and tells everyone in the vicinity that his father is abusing his sister. You were told that she was beaten up by her father because she had broke a rule his father has set that disallows female family members to leave the house. Other neighbours came to know of the situation and were criticizing the father. He then got furious, slapped his brother and took a thick cane to whack the girl.
What will you do as a neighbour? Are you going to be someone you are like now, suggesting that he has the right to set his own family rules and therefore right to punish her that severely? And remain indifferent about it, or even grateful for the fact that he has not imposed those restrictive rules on your family, which you deem as respect for your own family? But later, regret for your inaction only after a tragedy has happened, say, she commits suicide, or kills everyone in the family before so?
Or would you rather be on the other side, disagreeing with his actions and are willing to take one step further to stop his abuse of violence, and thereby ending her suffering that she, as a human being like you and me, does not deserve?
can you tell me what is your reaction to legalization of marijuana and other dangerous drugs in netherlands as well as prostitution? how do you see them? do you mean to say singapore's laws are barbaric?
or do you mean singaporeans should be taught how to let go of such drug abusers and prostitutes as the dutch may think singaporeans are "whacking the drugabusers with cane" and this may lead to even more catastrophic outcomes like the drug abusers causing mayhem in society. -
unfortunately you either dont have the good will or the intelligence to figure out what i meant. NOWHERE on earth does the WHOLE POPULACE get to decide the laws, it's the politicians/legislators etc. and they can include or exclude any segment of the population depending on the prevailing climate in that society, i.e.the social climate, what is acceptable and what is not etc.Originally posted by LatecomerX:Please read my post carefully. There's nothing wrong in setting a law for the benefit of its people and deter the actions of a few radicals which may do harm to them. But setting them to deny the women their basic rights to even meet a fellow human being and their rights to annul such outrageous laws is simply ridiculous.
And as I have mentioned in my previous post, and like you did, it's the Arab guys who are setting the laws, not the Arab people as a whole. It's not even within their rights to impose what they define as right or wrong onto the women. The women, as humans and Arabs, deserve a say in making the laws to be fair to themselves.
On the other hand, I wonder whether you are aware of what you are speaking, like popping a irrelevant topic about the Chinese should return to China and stuffs like that.
And I have two questions for you as well. Do you agree with my statement of "It is the right of every human to define what is right and what is wrong"?
If you do, why should the Arab women be denied of their rights to define what is right and wrong for themselves?
If not, why should the Arab men be allowed to create the definition and impose them onto the women, when they unquestionably disagree on it?
does singapore allow people below 21 to decide laws? never ever! they can't even vote! where does that leave your theory of every human being being able to decide for himself? -
Originally posted by Spartans:
i'm afraid you've to try to be more civilized and diplomatic in your discourse for this type of awkward behaviour doesn't endear you to any person of high standing in logical analysis.
Finally I come to the conclusion that protonhyrid is an ardent supporter of Saudi Arabia male-dominated Government. And high chance that he supports the gender discrimination himself.
He feverishly tried to attack fymk's view and opinion on the issue on [b]discrimination against women.
Let me tell you something, even it is the laws (Saudi laws) does not mean it is morally/ethically/logically correct. If you want to say I am imposing my view on the Saudi, so be it.
You are just one male Muslim who believe Saudi/Sharia laws against the women is fair and right. So be it. It is your opinion. To me, the Saudi/Sharia laws are extremely discrimintive towards the women gender. This is my opinion.
oh you mentioned that you do not believe in the term 'humane'. Well I'm afriad that is just your ill-pecerption. Even if you dun believe in 'humane treatment' does not mean it does not exist. Simple as that.[/b]
IF all you're mumbling is your opinion, then can i also blurt out my honest opinions about you or singapore or singaporean chinese who belong to china imho? will i be banned from this forum then? why isn't the so highly cherished freedom of speech exercised now in my case?