Evidence of Foreign Talents Robbing Locals of their Jobs
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well...i would write about it when i am affected. now, no.Originally posted by eagle:Instead of asking private information from others, why don't you tell us about your company, how many FTs, PRs and Singaporeans were employed? -
so you start a thread lor since you are our well liked fair lady. Even after u have started the thread, i am not surprised that not many would report FT/Local problems. That would prove your point as stated above wrong.Originally posted by fymk:I will be very frank with you on this aspect - you have not shown yourself to be sympathetic . Your comments are not exactly empathetic either.Not exactly encouraging for those who want to pour their sorrows to.
It is like telling someone who doesn't like you, your family problems when you know he is going to make fun of you and wave it aside. -
well, it would be evidence of no foreign talents robbing locals of jobs, wouldn't it? Wouldn't that be beneficial to your arguments?Originally posted by Daddy!!:well...i would write about it when i am affected. now, no.
You are asking for "Date of dismissal, Company's name, (Singaporean's Surname and initial, Age, Salary, Years of working experience, sex), if possible Foreign Talent's information such as Surname and initial, Age, Salary, Years of working experience, sex" as evidence of FTs robbing jobs as evidence
But how about us asking you, would you give us your Date of employment, Company's name, (Singaporean's Surname and initial, Age, Salary, Years of working experience, sex) to give us evidence that FTs are indeed not robbing locals of jobs?
My point is, this form of "collecting evidence" by asking private information here, and making conclusions when others do not want to give out private information, is wrong.
However, even if FTs managed to rob locals of jobs because of skill, my question to everyone who are against FT policy is, why is it wrong? So we are to say that Singapore companies should not employ FTs?
Imagine this, if a foreign company full of FTs (FT in the eyes of Singaporeans) replaced a whole company (only sgreans) in Singapore in the global business arena, wouldn't more locals too be 'robbed' of their jobs? For example the company Creative. Do you think it fared better than Apple? Do you think that if Creative employs mainly Singaporeans, would it have done better? And without doing better, they might have to retrench or close down, and thus, locals would be 'robbed' of jobs by the company Apple, in which the workers are in our eyes, FTs? Either way, it just mean that your jobs will be 'robbed' by foreigners if you don't have the necessary skills.
Just for information, Singapore public service itself has about 120k employees. Also, if you have walked many shopping centres in Singapore, many in the service industry are also Singaporeans. In addition, the many school children (above age 15) who worked part time to finance their own pocket money would also be considered employed. -
my emphasis is for one to write more facts when he gets emotional of the FT/Local problem. One could be drawn into self-panic if he just rely on the information found on public forums. Without evidence, I am inclined to believe instead that this information is only another topic which is used to hammer the ruling party. -
To Mr Daddy,
I will not be divulging more info but I can tell you the info is accurate as I am part of the management and and would obviously be partly involved in the recruitment. Thus, I also have a good feel of the situation. It is also ridiculous of you to ask ppl to divulge salary. Even I would not know exactly my subordinates salary.
A number of my fellow FT colleagues have worked in this company for many years and most do want to become Singaporean citizens as in the case of one of fellow colleague. The usual trend seems to be either the wife or husband will convert to Singapore citizenship. Now if we also put this "converted" Singaporeans into the equation, I can tell you the porportion of actual FT taking away professional jobs is even more significant.
Just looking at the ratio I've given, it is obvious that the competition is fierce. If only I did a count of the job applicants and look at the profile, I can relate even more accurately the situation. But that's not my job.
The way I look at it is although the threat of FT is tremendous, it is necessary to keep Singapore very competitive otherwise which a number of companies would already fold up from global competition and otherwise which many MNC would not want to locate their HQ in Singapore. If the government tightens the control on FT, the FT would naturally go elsewhere and we probably would see a drop in competitiveness of Singapore companies.
Nonetheless, it is important that our government ensures every Singaporean is given at least a starting job where Singaporeans can have a foundation to compete with the FT. And I must say the job of retaining competitiveness vs giving Singaporeans their bread and butter is a tough one. Finding that optimal point is not only difficult but very subjective! -
such valuable people are few and far between.Originally posted by sLeEpWaLkErInG:TS got nothing better to do.. if u think u r good and valuable to the company, u will not be afraid of all these foreign talents. -
not trueOriginally posted by dragg:such valuable people are few and far between.
you might be valuable, but you might not be aware of it... -
I think it is somewhat wrong to think as long as you keep on upgrading your skills and be so call relevant to the company, you will keep your job.
1st of all, you cannot compete with the salary with FTs. Say if a local get the job done for 3k, but a FT can get 80% of the job done at 1.5k. Very obvious what the boss will do.
2ndly, age is not on our side as I believe ageism is very much prevalent here. This compound the problem because say by age 40, your salary scale should be substancially higher then local a fresh grad and how much higher if you are compared with a FT fresh grad!!!
Employers always say experience counts but once comes to dollar and cents they will tell you "oh experience can be gain via OJT"
To be honest, as someone in charge of an IT Dept, I can see there is no amount of training or skill upgrades that can stop me from being replaced easily by someone younger and cheaper.
Sigh -
Again, industry related I believe.Originally posted by Mid9Sun:I think it is somewhat wrong to think as long as you keep on upgrading your skills and be so call relevant to the company, you will keep your job.
1st of all, you cannot compete with the salary with FTs. Say if a local get the job done for 3k, but a FT can get 80% of the job done at 1.5k. Very obvious what the boss will do.
2ndly, age is not on our side as I believe ageism is very much prevalent here. This compound the problem because say by age 40, your salary scale should be substancially higher then local a fresh grad and how much higher if you are compared with a FT fresh grad!!!
Employers always say experience counts but once comes to dollar and cents they will tell you "oh experience can be gain via OJT"
To be honest, as someone in charge of an IT Dept, I can see there is no amount of training or skill upgrades that can stop me from being replaced easily by someone younger and cheaper.
Sigh
Suppose you are in the law or medical profession, or even in the management area, property area, etc, experience do count
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Case 1 reported by apples
MNC Company
IT Department
7 workers (3 Singaporean of which one was formerly a FT; 4 FT)
71% replacement -
Indeed, upgrade gives no guarantee. If you upgrade, upgrade with the relevant skills and make sure to apply them relevantly. The latter is rather tough for most to accomplish.Originally posted by Mid9Sun:I think it is somewhat wrong to think as long as you keep on upgrading your skills and be so call relevant to the company, you will keep your job.
1st of all, you cannot compete with the salary with FTs. Say if a local get the job done for 3k, but a FT can get 80% of the job done at 1.5k. Very obvious what the boss will do.
2ndly, age is not on our side as I believe ageism is very much prevalent here. This compound the problem because say by age 40, your salary scale should be substancially higher then local a fresh grad and how much higher if you are compared with a FT fresh grad!!!
Employers always say experience counts but once comes to dollar and cents they will tell you "oh experience can be gain via OJT"
To be honest, as someone in charge of an IT Dept, I can see there is no amount of training or skill upgrades that can stop me from being replaced easily by someone younger and cheaper.
Sigh
I would say, more importantly, to retain a job you must be continuously valuable to the company. Again, it's a tough one especially when we start to age and slow down on both our physical and mental capabilities. To be valuable, one way is of course to upgrade ourselves relevantly.
However, I would debate against your example. 20% job loss could make a lot of difference and could mean a loss of customer and competitiveness of the company. 20% of the job loss could also have more repercussions because that 20% can affect other parties. Lastly, experience can indeed be gained but it takes a lot of time and the right working attitude and someone will be sacrificing and spending more of his time to explain to him. If a company keeps doing such thing, it will be difficult to grow. -
When ppl hire PRC, they think of them as cheap and good. Hasnt it been noticed that cheap dun mean it is good!!! I got a few such case happing in my company. They are just crap. Duno if they are really crap to began with or just the fact that they felt mistreated, hence dun perform up to standard. Lucky, they are gone liao. Please dun mistake me here, some FT are really talented, sometime bosses just wanna take the cheapskate way out. Guess who is there to clean up the mess they made after they are gone...
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Other FTs to clean it upOriginally posted by EarlNeo:When ppl hire PRC, they think of them as cheap and good. Hasnt it been noticed that cheap dun mean it is good!!! I got a few such case happing in my company. They are just crap. Duno if they are really crap to began with or just the fact that they felt mistreated, hence dun perform up to standard. Lucky, they are gone liao. Please dun mistake me here, some FT are really talented, sometime bosses just wanna take the cheapskate way out. Guess who is there to clean up the mess they made after they are gone... 