This forum is mostly complaints wor
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Much as I would like that..... Don't think it is possible.Originally posted by eagle:My guess is, the way we post in this forum might have been somewhat shaped by a few uncouth forumers who hurl insults at the slightest of provocation. This is definitely due to, as you have mentioned, our inherent defensiveness, narrow mindedness and pettiness.
Now that forumers such as gazelle and mat toro are away, let us turn this into a better forum in 2008
Most members here have already 'lock' their ideas and thinking in stone.... no way in hell could anyone change their mindset.... it like if you are not with them, then u are against them....... kind of thinking.
But at the same time.... make this forums more intresting.....
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HEARD SOMEONE SAID,"HONEY ATTRACTS BEES N SHIT ATTRACTS HOUSEFLIES"
ONCE A FORUM IS DOMINATED BY FLIES, THE BEES KEEP AWAY, LEAVING THE FLIES MAKING NOISES. -
Found your facts in another thread.
My response in bold.Fact is, the number of foreigners + PRs exceed the number of Singaporeans in the total labour force in Singapore (1.16 : 1), but a certain forumer continued not to accept this fact, and in fact, took it as a form of an attack, which I have no idea why.
Your fact? Source?
Fact is, public service, the largest employer in Singapore, employ mostly Singaporeans, and thus, how would one expect a high ratio of Sgreans working in other companies? Yet a certain forumer failed to accept this point and decide to use his wonderful amount of working experience as a backing to his baseless claim.
Fact is, my calculations has shown at least a 96% employment rate of citizens, assuming 100% employment of foreigners + PRs, and as explained earlier, it is highly likely that a high proportion is in government agencies (SAF, GIC, DSO, MINDEF, etc, etc). Thus the normal observations of more foreigners in private companies. However, a certain forumer would continue to correct me that many foreigners are indeed snatching locals of their jobs because he has seen 3 companies, one of which has 20 employees, and in total <0.1% of the labour force of Singapore.
Civil service : 60,000 strong? So, 2.6m locals need to work in private sector? Is the number a fair assumption? I donÂ’t have the figures. 4% unemployed approx. 104,000? So little? ThatÂ’s unbelievable. As a number, itÂ’s still big considering that foreigners and PRs enjoyed 100% employment. Ask the MOM or statistics dept. to produce real figures to convince the people. This is the best.
Fact is, there are certainly loopholes here and there for employers to exploit such that it seems like they have a good citizen to foreigners ratio on paper, yet in actual fact more foreigners than normal. Thus the averages in the statistics can sometimes mislead, and these loopholes are the main thing that is worth discussing. Yet a certain forumer would continue to harp on the statistics, and not why the numbers could be screwed up due to these loopholes.
Fact is, there are indeed Singaporeans who were displaced by cheaper foreign talents from China and India. Yet imagine, Singapore was a country that relied on foreign workers since its founding. Have our ancestors not also displaced the original "inhabitants" of the land of Singapore too?
Singapore was a colony then. ItÂ’s a nation now. We are no more subjects. We are the citizens now. GovtÂ’s priority is to the citizens. During the the 80s, there were still jobs that citizens shunned during a recession. Unemployment was not serious because the country overcame the recession with pay freeze and cpf cuts. These were restored when the economy bounced back. So, how are foreigners recruited today? Place job ads in Singapore to hire locals first? No reponse than recruit from overseas? Is that how it works? Today, foreigners are treated better than the citizens.
Fact is, even if you do go abroad to work, there are 2 things that can happened. Firstly, you could too get displaced by cheaper workers from India and China too; they migrate everywhere. Secondly, you will also be regarded as a foreigner that displaced a local of his/her work; you are doing exactly the same thing that you have despised.
No worries if they become naturalized citizens of that country. Welfare, remember?
In Singapore, you have to ‘fall’ into the MRT tracks.
Fact is, if you have the real ability, you would be able to rise up in this sea of foreign workers. With the real ability, you could lead them in work, instead of competing with them for work. Manage them. Get them to do the work for you. Why compete in an area they have an advantage of? Know your advantages, and make full use of them to have an edge. The never ending problem occurs when people only think linearly of competing in an area without any advantage.
Middle-aged U and poly(even a handful of PHD and Masters) grads driving taxis, anyone?
The problem is that the govt gives the employers freehand in its hiring practices. You only need to read up our own labour laws. ItÂ’s very simple. Then you read the labour laws of the first world countries. Make a comparison. The employees here have no bargaining power at all. Join NTUC union and enjoy the benefits of members? ItÂ’s all enticing members to spend. Who need that sh!t? People need jobs with pay that can cover the cost of living and still have some left to pursue happiness. Singapore is such a small country. If there are still people who have to live from hand to mouth, please donÂ’t advertise Singapore as a first world country. -
we need people like gazelle to balance people like M13. Sgforum should not be a government propaganda station, and neither should it be a one sided anti government forum.Originally posted by eagle:Now that forumers such as gazelle and mat toro are away, let us turn this into a better forum in 2008 -
complain...
not complain not Singaporean mah...
actually i tink SG is already good enuff ler...
like TS said, dun like, den just go away lor...
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look like eagle is joining the league as well.
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What is Speaker's corner used for? Imo, its a channel to voice concerns about current affairs.
Complaints are also a part of concerns. We complain because we care about the country, the place where we live in. If no one care about the country anymore, then there will naturally be no more complains of this kind.
You may agrue that there are lots of armchair critics, but this is an online forum. Other than the few ones with coherent thoughts, there's also lots of other people. -
i applaud the person who had time to do this.. really hilarious..Originally posted by 798:look like eagle is joining the league as well. -
agree!Originally posted by abao:What is Speaker's corner used for? Imo, its a channel to voice concerns about current affairs.
Complaints are also a part of concerns. We complain because we care about the country, the place where we live in. If no one care about the country anymore, then there will naturally be no more complains of this kind.
You may argue that there are lots of armchair critics, but this is an online forum. Other than the few ones with coherent thoughts, there's also lots of other people.
supposely if one day everyone keep their mouth shut, the government will assume everyone r happy wif the current politic. they will continue to increase their salary cap. soon everyone will start following the trend too.
is sg becoming a money-driven country? good leaders dun just think pay hike increase is the only solution for all problem. -
Do you know that you dont have to be a LEE to become a million dollar minister?Originally posted by 798:agree!
supposely if one day everyone keep their mouth shut, the government will assume everyone r happy wif the current politic. they will continue to increase their salary cap. soon everyone will start following the trend too.
is sg becoming a money-driven country? good leaders dun just think pay hike increase is the only solution for all problem.
If you think you are as qualified as our current ministers, why dont you give a shot to become one of them? Maybe you might like it? -
four sided opinions about ministers' salaries.
side 1: LKY knew that corruption is rampant in this region and he wanted to make sure Singapore does not have it after he is gone. He knew that the most effective and cheapest method to fight corruption is by check and balances. But he will not let go of the political grip which the party has over the population. So to "cover" this failing of the party, he pumped up the salaries of the ministers. So high that he hoped that it can fight corruption. The philosophy so far he has for Singapore is to solve problems by money and science.
side 2: Fighting corruption by increasing the ministers' salaries is only an excuse. The real reason behind is very simple, Greed. Because it is possible to implement effective internal check and balances.
side 3: First world standard in salaries and living refers only to civil servants and GLC employees with pink NRICs with a minimum educational level. Because our rich government has no control over the private sector's salary levels. So the ministers' salaries is a "beach head" commando signal that salaries of Singaporeans will rise to first world standard. Declaration of first world standard refers to public sector. Private sector can do what they want. Eventually, over the long term, the private sector will realise that Singaporeans are expensive and they have to pay up, otherwise they have to hire cheaper FTs.
side 4: Got to compete with private sector salaries to retain the people within the government.
which side are you on? -
well... anyone can try having at a shot at govern post.Originally posted by Love Supreme:Do you know that you dont have to be a LEE to become a million dollar minister?
If you think you are as qualified as our current ministers, why dont you give a shot to become one of them? Maybe you might like it?
but so wat earning so much cash? do one feel remorse earning pple's hard living by being a YES Man? may as well being a dog then.
how bout being an opposition? but being opposition is as though u r condemn by the media, ur life together wif ur family r going to suffer for going against one party policy. -
like wat one forumite said, majority of us love sg but hate the government.Originally posted by aHGer^83:complain...
not complain not Singaporean mah...
actually i tink SG is already good enuff ler...
like TS said, dun like, den just go away lor...
n i am not going to leave Sg. as long as i am still here, i will continue to vote PAP out of parliment!
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Originally posted by hloc:
For you and eagle who are not happy about forumers come here voice their views, air their disappointments/frustrations, concerns over what the gahmen are doing, you two can go suggest to PAP to fine these forumers for doing so.
Much as I would like that..... Don't think it is possible.
Most members here have already 'lock' their ideas and thinking in stone.... no way in hell could anyone change their mindset.... it like [b]if you are not with them, then u are against them....... kind of thinking.
But at the same time.... make this forums more intresting..... [/b] -
Why are you surprised. This forum shows the classic Singaporean attitude!Originally posted by eagle:Complains complains complains.... Might as well go wet markets/coffee shops complain to the old uncles and aunties there...
But got simple solution mah:
You don't like the country, you leave the country. What's stopping you? But if you have left the country, why do you still want to come back to complain?
Complain can, but might higher quality complains... Not complains that come from 'evidence' from what you have experienced... Like that complain might as well go to Whinehouse to complain about your experiences... Not speaker's corner...
You like the country, you stay and make sure the government does its job properly by casting your votes properly. Or at least, give proper facts, research and analysis before an attempt to discredit the government.
There are a few attitudes in this forum (feel free to add on):
1) Only know how to complain but do nothing {not even some simple research to substantiate} (armchair general)
2) Complain without proper facts, evidence and research (baseless allegations)
3) Complain wrongly liao start personal attacks, which is out of point from the original thread (sore loser)
Fortunately, this forum is somewhat saved by a few rather good threads, although such threads do go out of point sometimes.
Sigh... -
YOu sure kena marked by TS for not agreeing with him. There are vast differences between working adults and kids who are still in school when discussing about practical issues/reality in the working world.Originally posted by 798:Pot calling Kettle black!
nothing to do trying to add more fuel here rite?
pple r feeling disgrunted becos the government have let them down n making empty promises.
if TS cant take the majority views here, get the F outta here! -
So you please don't complain about the gahmen at all. Please vote for PAP. It is not only in Singapore that people complain about the govt, it is happening all over the world. Why pick on just Singapore?Originally posted by Slipshade:Why are you surprised. This forum shows the classic Singaporean attitude! -
Originally posted by qlqq9:YOu sure kena marked by TS for not agreeing with him. There are vast differences between working adults and kids who are still in school when discussing about practical issues/reality in the working world. TS wants facts quotes figures references bibliography to back up any stand. its these vs real life experience and situations.
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I agree with what you said above 100%. It is 'dui niu dan qing" to talk to small boys about the reality of the working world. There are always differences between theory and reality in the working world. Well, I am blacklisted by him because I don't agree with him.Originally posted by maurizio13:Children should not engage in politics, because they have hardly live and worked in the system. They know very little about the outside world other than the confines of school and home. So...., maybe you should finish your education, finish your national service and work a few years before engaging in political discussions. As such, you hardly see any pre-pubescent politician in parliament. More often so, when these children are the result of propaganda supplanted by the dominant political party now.
Yah. Your complain is different, but a complain is nevertheless a complain, as stated by your topic "This forum is mostly complaints wor".
Same logic as P4P dude, they have double standards in evaluating issues. Opposition wards don't qualify for upgrading, but P4P wards qualify for upgrading. Makes sense? Opposition wards are NOT Singaporeans, all the opposition wards must have lots of foreign talents.
Anyway, your school holidays is just about over, time to get back to school to study. Study well, get good grades, hope you qualify for further education in one of the prestigous universities overseas.
As it would prove, you don't even have knowledge of what qualifies a person as an immigrant in another country. Not every Tom, Dick and Harry qualifies for immigration to a similar country.
What other topics do you want to teach us grown up folks?
I don't participate in political discussions with small boys who haven't even make their keep to support themselves.
Good luck!
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everyday so busy
first homework, then proj work, then gf...............
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Topic: Eagle is loaded with schoolwork
I rather be loaded with money...
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Topic: Anyone applying for Master of Sc Engineering
in Aug 2008?
Opening date is 18 Jan 08
Closing date is 3 Mar 08
I thinking of applying part-time Masters for EE for 08... Means taking part time upon graduation.
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http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=269872&page=0
http://politics.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=267041 -
Wow, you know real life experience and situations and figures references bibliography are two different thing, bingo!Originally posted by bryanw: TS wants facts quotes figures references bibliography to back up any stand. its these vs real life experience and situations. -
U got one big serious problem. Do not, I repeat, do not discriminate all students as ignorant and naive. We may not have the working experience as working adults but it doesnt mean we do not know anything about the society.Originally posted by qlqq9:YOu sure kena marked by TS for not agreeing with him. There are vast differences between working adults and kids who are still in school when discussing about practical issues/reality in the working world.
From what u had said, u are implying that forumers in SC can simply brush away the comments of students as ignorant comments without even looking thru them right? -
but then again working & real life experiences can only be gained over time.Originally posted by qlqq9:Wow, you know real life experience and situations and figures references bibliography are two different thing, bingo! 
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Originally posted by royston_ang:
Well said, especially the last 2 paras. If he is so unhappy about people complaining then he can request sgforums to ban these people from coming here for discussion. When kids are in schools, there are times their perspectives are different from reality. They get angry, fed up with reality.
We like our country but don't like the gov (a.k.a PAP). Singapore isn't PAP and PAP isn't Singapore. Please get this right before making silly remark.
Why do ppl complain in forum instead of doing anything? Isn't this a stupid question? The PAP has been too successfully in putting lots of barrier for the people to do anything about it.
Let's take for example, when the ministers want to raise their salaries, if you are not happy, can you do anything? It is illegal to protest here and chances of striking a lottery is higher than getting a permit from the police to protest.
Write to the local media and chances is your letter will end up in the rubbish bin.
Joined the opposition? Of course nobody want to vote for the opposition unless they want their estate to end up like potong pasir which is the last to get upgraded and nicely "isolated" from all benefits.
So, what are [b]you contributing to this forum then? What I am seeing is just another whiner compaining of ppl whining, starting personal attack on other forumer and yet acting like a saint.
The point is, if you are so great, why don't you start a more useful thread then this to flame other forumers? [/b] -
U are not blacklisted by eagle simply because u do not agree with him. It is ur attitude.Originally posted by qlqq9:I agree with what you said above 100%. It is 'dui niu dan qing" to talk to small boys about the reality of the working world. There are always differences between theory and reality in the working world. Well, I am blacklisted by him because I don't agree with him.
U tend to retaliate at the slightly counter arguments. -
Originally posted by maurizio13:Aren't you being hypocritical by complaining about those complaining?
Another simple solution you should impose on yourself before you suggest to others, "if you don't like to listen to others complaining, then leave the forum, nobody tying you to a chair at knifepoint forcing you to listen to our discussions (complains according to you).
Not everybody qualifies for immigration status in other countries, so telling others to leave is not wholly possible.
Most of the time, it's those who defends the government against the complainers that resort to insults first.
I think TS should practice what he preaches first, else will turn out like P4P hypocrites.
From TS:
I can't understand why can't everyone be more objective, cool-headed and factual...
--> Factual? When we talked about the facts, reality and happening in the working world are not factual then we have to base on his figures and theory to get factual, what a laugh!