Confucianism or Pancasila or Asian Values- any good?
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Two parts of Confucian Ethics:
(1) People must have good conduct, like patience, respect of elders, be pro-family, pro-society, pro-people and cooperate with one another,
(2) Leaders must be virtuous and practise morality and ethics to win over the support of the people.
Which part does the government want to implement most? Which one of these two parts should be implemented first?
The answer will be quite obvious here in our culture. Part (1) should be implemented first while they will not say anything about part (2)
Has China which practised Confucianism for many centuries succeeded in great advances in science and technology or created systems which produced great achievements from harnessing of their own people's talents producing many Nobel Prize winners like the western democracies have done practising openness and accountability?
It seems that Confucianism is centred on making the people more submissive to authority and keeping quiet of any wrongful malpractices by their corrupt leaders.
Has our talent or leadership approaches or mandarin system (talent based) resulted in our betterment of all.
We tend to see the same results as in ancient China - the benefit is to empower the rich and the elites.
It rather looks like today leadership and talent system finally can only do so much helped by media submissions as publicity tool where the only result in painting good picture.
Now the talent and leadership system is full of hypes lacking ability to produce true competitivenss.
Biotech, IT and all projects can only succeed from true implementation people and not all the talks about ideas and policies.
Talents will need a heavy transfusions of blood from Confucianism or Asian values, or pancasila after what has happened in the Asian Financial crisis which exposed such as self-centredness, the root of malfunctioning causing the financial crisis. -
why no mention of pancasila in your post?
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Asian Values, Confucianism and Pancasila are similar in the sense that they are put toward as some kind of governing philosophy to give legitimacy to particular leaders to better govern their respective countries.
Such cultural or social philosophy may look reasonable but they at the end are devices and not necessarily something which can be implemented for the greatest good of the greatest number which is the main thrust under the western democracy.
These five principles announced by Sukarno in a speech known as "The Birth of the Pancasila," which he gave to the Independence Preparatory Committee on June 1, 1945 briefly cover: belief in one supreme God; humanitarianism; nationalism expressed in the unity of Indonesia; consultative democracy; and social justice.
Sukarno has not succeeded in building a competitive and vibrant Indonesia relying on such social or cultural concept.
So with Confucianism it will be the same. China of the old relying on Confucianism and employing a system of mandarin like our current talent and leadership espousal basically are old look-good justification to give legitimacy to some self-centred control of people.
Goodness, greatest good of the greatest number cannot happen because such concept and values are not compelling enough to be implemented and can only serve as NATO or justification like our talents and leadership propagandas.
Only processes which are tangible and workable and attainable and practicable as laid down strictly in properly documented and respected constitution clearly spelling out roles, duties and functions and power to prevent manipulation and potential abuses by anyone will be effective means of governing the country as they are then possible to implement and enforce various desired look-good social and cultural objectives embodied in value system whether entitled "Confucianism", "Asian Values", "Pancasila" or "talent or leadership" or whatever.
Substance is more effective in actuality and greater than form. -
Truths will be truths. Democracy provides a system which lays down governing tasks in processes or institutions which could ensure results - greatest good of the greatest number.
Democracy has been attacked by all sorts of oppressor regimes everywhere to justify their own needs for control through sheer power to serve their respective self-interest of their own leaders in power from Myanmar to Kenya or North Korea.
Yet democracy is not at fault as explained in this thread. Even Confucianism or Asian Values are no match for democracy despite many attempts to put together such value-system or hypocrisy which did not work at the end in the past.
But go and ask any MPs or Ministers to amend our constitution to evolve our own brand of democracy to greater height and they are bound to tell you we must have our own leadership and talent or confucianism system or philosophy to serve us.
Actually what they do not wish to tell are the truths that whatever they are trying to do is merely to justify their own power and controls to serve their own ends.
If you don't believe this, just pay more attention to more speeches in national day rally or budget speeches. It will be the same - hypocrisy. -
From what I know, Confucianism or Asian Values is one of the eastern philosophies.Others include Taoism, Zen, Buddhism, Hinduism and Yoga.They all have a similar doctrine and that is the teaching of endurance.Vegetarianism is related to eastern philosophies.And Christianity is strictly against eastern philosophies.
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The worship of monies by the leaders has denied them the moral authority to lead the countrymen.
Now they manage to lead only by hanging on to whatever allow them to do so by legalistic wrangling.
Leadership is much more than leading by legal mandate or procedure. -
rukun tetanga is best lah....
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can you please elaborate your last statement? thank you.Originally posted by ahsiang12:From what I know, Confucianism or Asian Values is one of the eastern philosophies.Others include Taoism, Zen, Buddhism, Hinduism and Yoga.They all have a similar doctrine and that is the teaching of endurance.Vegetarianism is related to eastern philosophies.And Christianity is strictly against eastern philosophies. -
Taking the overall situation into consideration...
Confucius did not accept blindly every legend, and he examined the famed paragon of truthfulness. "How can we call even the great Weisheng Kao upright? When someone asked him for vinegar he went and begged it from people next door and then gave it as though it were his own gift." Each of these examples from legend and history gave the students ethical questions to consider and discuss so that they themselves would know better how to behave...
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I am not a fan for Confusius ...Originally posted by Doubletalk:Taking the overall situation into consideration...
Confucius did not accept blindly every legend, and he examined the famed paragon of truthfulness. "How can we call even the great Weisheng Kao upright? When someone asked him for vinegar he went and begged it from people next door and then gave it as though it were his own gift." Each of these examples from legend and history gave the students ethical questions to consider and discuss so that they themselves would know better how to behave...
I am more towards Lao Zi -
The five colours blind the eye.
The five tones deafen the ear.
The five flavours dull the taste.
Racing and hunting madden the mind.
Precious things lead one astray.
Why are people starving?
Because the rulers eat up the money in taxes.
Therefore the people are starving.
Why are the people rebellious?
Because the rulers interfere too much.
Therefore they are rebellious.
Why do people think so little of death?
Because the rulers demand too much of life.
Therefore the people take life lightly. -
Respect and ego will clash each other.
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Christianity considers eastern philosophies as pagan.Christianity is against paganism or anything outside Christianity that are not godly.Christianity is also against all forms of divinations that are considered ungodly and pagan.Such as fontune-telling , horoscopes, feng-shui, sorcering, yoga, qi-gong and kung-fu.And also all forms of witchcrafts, black magic and white magic and even wiccanism.Originally posted by sgdiehard:can you please elaborate your last statement? thank you.
Vegetarianism is pagan because it is related to eastern philosophies.Hope this will answer your question.Thank you for your question. -
Nonsense. Some people go vegetarian for health reasons. Some people stand up for animals and the environment.Originally posted by ahsiang12:Christianity considers eastern philosophies as pagan.Christianity is against paganism or anything outside Christianity that are not godly.Christianity is also against all forms of divinations that are considered ungodly and pagan.Such as fontune-telling , horoscopes, feng-shui, sorcering, yoga, qi-gong and kung-fu.And also all forms of witchcrafts, black magic and white magic and even wiccanism.
Vegetarianism is pagan because it is related to eastern philosophies.Hope this will answer your question.Thank you for your question. -
Christianity is a religion acknowledging a God. Chinese philosophies, including the teachings of great teachers such as confucius, lao zhi, me zhi.... are philosophies of life, not religion. These teachings do not tell us anything about gods. In fact, Confucius taught his students to respect but distant themselves from gods and devils, "jing gui shen er yuan zhi".Originally posted by ahsiang12:Christianity considers eastern philosophies as pagan.Christianity is against paganism or anything outside Christianity that are not godly.Christianity is also against all forms of divinations that are considered ungodly and pagan.Such as fontune-telling , horoscopes, feng-shui, sorcering, yoga, qi-gong and kung-fu.And also all forms of witchcrafts, black magic and white magic and even wiccanism.
Vegetarianism is pagan because it is related to eastern philosophies.Hope this will answer your question.Thank you for your question.
Many teachings in Christianity actually agree with chinese philosophies.
Confucianism has strong emphasis on filia piety; in the Bible, the first commandment on relationship between men is to honor your father and your mother.
Confucianism teaches us not to do unto others whatever you don't want done to you, ji suo bu yi�C wu shi yu ren. The Bible teaches us to love others as we love ourselves.
Christianity does not agree with religions with beliefs in other gods or spiritual beings, it should not be difficult to understand why. But you should make the difference between philosophies, lifestyles, and religion. Kungfu is martial art, not a religion, unless you think that you know kungfu when you are possessed by the kungfu spirits. vegetarianism is a lifestyle, not a religion, there are actually many christians who are vegetarians, cholesterol too high, bo bian, and it is not something forbidden. -
Whether Christianiy, Muslim, Catholic or Buddhism... everyone can choose their own belief !!Originally posted by ahsiang12:Christianity considers eastern philosophies as pagan.Christianity is against paganism or anything outside Christianity that are not godly.Christianity is also against all forms of divinations that are considered ungodly and pagan.Such as fontune-telling , horoscopes, feng-shui, sorcering, yoga, qi-gong and kung-fu.And also all forms of witchcrafts, black magic and white magic and even wiccanism.
Vegetarianism is pagan because it is related to eastern philosophies.Hope this will answer your question.Thank you for your question.
But they should not:-
1. Impose their beliefs on others !! agree?
2. Mix Religion with Politics !! agree?