What if 50% of sporeans migrate?
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my sentiments exactly.Originally posted by MingFreeman:If 50% of sporeans migrate, then more PRCs will replace that 50%.
Its the policy here.
you see waiters, dishwashers, construction workers, senior staff in companies, all PRC, where are the singaporeans? migrated liao. -
American worship? Sorry you must be mistaken, nobody hates Americans more than the Aussies.Originally posted by fymk:Maybe some are students? What I notice is that most students, be it asian or americans , they like to mix within their own company. The americans especially. I know it because my good friend who is american , don't really like to mix with the Australian community except when he just wants to pick up chicks. He mixes with me because he knows me but he doesn't care to mix with other asians or australians he don't know. And I also notice some fair amount of american worship coming from the australians when I go out with him.
Melbourne is a student town basically. Brisbane is starting to turn into a student town smack in the city.
For me , I have friends who are australian and some are australian born asians . The australian born asians seem to feel more comfortable with the caucasian ones than asian migrants.
The ethnic gangs , chinese or viet , usually mind their business within asian suburbs. The lebanese ones are the ones who go out and create a Cronulla problem.
Having said that , why not look at the greek , middle eastern or italian communities, they are worse - from past experience, at least the elderly asians in the hospital make a concerted effort to speak english , even though it is horrible to hear them can the language.
From my past experience , most of the elderly migrants of italian , greek and middle eastern descent expect you to KNOW THEIR LANGUAGE. They are the ones with the mentality that if you are a girl and you can't speak their language, you are just some inferior piece of crap.
What I said holds true with the italians, greeks and lebs too though they aren't as bad as many of them tend to associate with the australians much more than the average asian migrant. -
Well....you can't stop them from comingOriginally posted by LazerLordz:We don't need more of unmitigated immigration. Thank you.
love to see those study mamas bringing their kids here.....the indian families relocating here.....heck, get the malaysians, vietnamese in as well.....like it or not, you can't stop it from happening...its globalization man....its here to stay and Sillypore is gonna have 6.5 million people in 5-10years.....cheers to that man -
Right.....those girls who were speaking with a strong australian accent must really not be australians when they try to get to know my dear american friend ( i.e. asking him for his number) right smack in front of me.Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:American worship? Sorry you must be mistaken, nobody hates Americans more than the Aussies.
What I said holds true with the italians, greeks and lebs too though they aren't as bad as many of them tend to associate with the australians much more than the average asian migrant.
You can argue with me on this but it will be hilarious when you argue with my dear australian caucasian friends who have been in the business of nursing for a long time. You seen the australian born italians , greeks and lebs - you just haven't met the italy born italians or the greece born greeks or the lebanon borned lebs . Seriously - communication goes both ways. How many australians I see are actually reaching out to the average asian migrants? Other than my own friends , of course.
You complain that asians don't want to mix , the thing is when there are asians - the australians are the ones who keep to themselves. -
i dont think it matters to the singapore govt. if 50 percents of Singaporeans migrated, well they just gonna get more ppl from china n hong kong. simple.
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That is untrue, Asians always live in certain Asian communities instead of choosing to live with the rest of the races. Go to Chatswood and you'll see. Of course it's the Asians who have to choose to mix, they're the ones migrating and it's them who needs to integrate themselves into the already existing community not start their own.Originally posted by fymk:Right.....those girls who were speaking with a strong australian accent must really not be australians when they try to get to know my dear american friend ( i.e. asking him for his number) right smack in front of me.
You can argue with me on this but it will be hilarious when you argue with my dear australian caucasian friends who have been in the business of nursing for a long time. You seen the australian born italians , greeks and lebs - you just haven't met the italy born italians or the greece born greeks or the lebanon borned lebs . Seriously - communication goes both ways. How many australians I see are actually reaching out to the average asian migrants? Other than my own friends , of course.
You complain that asians don't want to mix , the thing is when there are asians - the australians are the ones who keep to themselves.
I'm not sure you understand the definition of worship. Just because your American friend happens to be good with the ladies doesn't make it American worship. By the way what race were those girls?
Oh and to clarify things I use the word 'hate' lightly, I mean that in the way that Aussies generally dislike Americans and tend to bash them a lot. -
North america will be heaven if there;s no race discrimination but let;'s face it...it;s the white culture that created modern america....
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yea. cheap labour and everythingOriginally posted by MingFreeman:If 50% of sporeans migrate, then more PRCs will replace that 50%.
Its the policy here. -
I actually do live in an area where there are plenty of caucasians. I am asian . I tried to make friends - 40% of the time - I get through. 60% - I might get ignored , a hi and a bye and nothing more. Having said that, 75% of my friends in Australia are actually Australian citizens - a few asians ,alot of caucasians - born and bred. Two of my good friends are australian born and bred caucasians.Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:That is untrue, Asians always live in certain Asian communities instead of choosing to live with the rest of the races. Go to Chatswood and you'll see. Of course it's the Asians who have to choose to mix, they're the ones migrating and it's them who needs to integrate themselves into the already existing community not start their own.
I'm not sure you understand the definition of worship. Just because your American friend happens to be good with the ladies doesn't make it American worship. By the way what race were those girls?
Oh and to clarify things I use the word 'hate' lightly, I mean that in the way that Aussies generally dislike Americans and tend to bash them a lot.
And you make a mistake of assuming that some asians in australia are migrants when they could be jolly well 4th generation born and bred australians. True , the Australian asian community ties are very strong - the Australian chinese are so bonded that EVEN I stand out like a sore thumb .....odd eh?
You generalise but why don't you pick on the italians for mixing with the italians and the greeks for mixing with the greeks . They come to Australia too. You are taking the Pauline Hanson's stand of non integration but non integration also happens with the italians, greeks and middle easterns. They speak their own language but Pauline Hanson chooses to pick on asians for speaking their own language. I had to freaking pick up italian in the hospital or else I won't be able to even communicate with the older italians. Greek - I gave up on it - I use the latin words and they understand anyways so neither here nor there.
Oh by the way, I support English tests for all migrants because I am sick of trying to speak italian ,and croatian to people who can't be arsed learning the lingua franca of Australia.
Those girls are caucasian. Australians may dislike americans in terms of their politics but put one american girl and one australian girl and one asian girl - the australian will choose to talk to the american , that is regardless of their ethnicity. [/i] -
con't
Jon , why don't you pinpoint the anglos living in anglo areas, the rich living in rich areas, the poor living in poor areas etc? Plenty of people live in places which suit their category. In Melbourne , I live in Carlton which is a former italian strongholds.
Double bay , Toorak etc- we see rich living in their own socioeconomic status , regardless of ethnicity . So really what is wrong with asians living in asian majority areas? Maybe they feel more comfortable there and near asian grocery stores because most other places don't exactly stock asian groceries. Maybe they have relatives nearby they can pop over and visit .
The italians used to stay together because of that . So does the greeks. Near to their own family, people and language, near to shops which stock their items that other ethnicities don't have a need for. Heck you even have jewish communities in certain areas of Melbourne and Brisbane. It is just the common characteristics that bring people together.
Ever seen a major asian riot from non-integration in Australia ? No. I think most asians rather mind their own business and do their own work. That is not saying that all of them are unfriendly . Maybe they just like to keep within their boundaries.
I am pretty sure that Australian caucasians also feel pretty uneasy talking to someone who looks different from them because of the risk of offending them. I know that when I first knew my friends.
For one of my good friends , I am actually her first asian good friend and it is quite easy to notice that I was the only asian invited to her wedding - I stuck out like a sore thumb. Only two persons spoke to me , not including the bride and groom and their parents , and they are my own friends from work, The other couple sitting next to me , caucasian and all , did not even attempt to continue much of a conversation with me even though I started one. That was until they got pretty tipsy and started blabbering.
If you want true integration , do it like France, no religious affliated public funded schools - standardised secular schools. Make everyone speak english or else leave Australia if they can't speak a shred of the lingua franca. Oh wait even better , set a racial quota for people in each suburb - only a certain number of people in certain ethnicities can own properties - aka Singapore HDB style. Oh but wait ....that sounds too racist to the ordinary Australian ......so really? How would you encourage integration instead of pointing your finger at asians and going on about them not integrating at all? -
I'm not just picking out the Asians, I've said in an earlier post that it happens with the Greeks and Italians and others too, the only reason I chose Asians is because this thread is about Singaporeans (Asians) migrating. I'm just sticking to the topic.Originally posted by fymk:I actually do live in an area where there are plenty of caucasians. I am asian . I tried to make friends - 40% of the time - I get through. 60% - I might get ignored , a hi and a bye and nothing more. Having said that, 75% of my friends in Australia are actually Australian citizens - a few asians ,alot of caucasians - born and bred. Two of my good friends are australian born and bred caucasians.
And you make a mistake of assuming that some asians in australia are migrants when they could be jolly well 4th generation born and bred australians. True , the Australian asian community ties are very strong - the Australian chinese are so bonded that EVEN I stand out like a sore thumb .....odd eh?
You generalise but why don't you pick on the italians for mixing with the italians and the greeks for mixing with the greeks . They come to Australia too. You are taking the Pauline Hanson's stand of non integration but non integration also happens with the italians, greeks and middle easterns. They speak their own language but Pauline Hanson chooses to pick on asians for speaking their own language. I had to freaking pick up italian in the hospital or else I won't be able to even communicate with the older italians. Greek - I gave up on it - I use the latin words and they understand anyways so neither here nor there.
Oh by the way, I support English tests for all migrants because I am sick of trying to speak italian ,and croatian to people who can't be arsed learning the lingua franca of Australia.
Those girls are caucasian. Australians may dislike americans in terms of their politics but put one american girl and one australian girl and one asian girl - the australian will choose to talk to the american , that is regardless of their ethnicity. [/i] -
Socio-economic status is different, the reason for that is because of factors such as price of land and housing in the particular area, etc. but even so you'll still see other ethnicities of the same wealth still living apart. Integration shouldn't have to be explicitly forced, take Sweden for example. Even the American Muslims are well assimilated regardless of the obvious racial and religious tension.Originally posted by fymk:con't
Jon , why don't you pinpoint the anglos living in anglo areas, the rich living in rich areas, the poor living in poor areas etc? Plenty of people live in places which suit their category. In Melbourne , I live in Carlton which is a former italian strongholds.
Double bay , Toorak etc- we see rich living in their own socioeconomic status , regardless of ethnicity . So really what is wrong with asians living in asian majority areas? Maybe they feel more comfortable there and near asian grocery stores because most other places don't exactly stock asian groceries. Maybe they have relatives nearby they can pop over and visit .
The italians used to stay together because of that . So does the greeks. Near to their own family, people and language, near to shops which stock their items that other ethnicities don't have a need for. Heck you even have jewish communities in certain areas of Melbourne and Brisbane. It is just the common characteristics that bring people together.
Ever seen a major asian riot from non-integration in Australia ? No. I think most asians rather mind their own business and do their own work. That is not saying that all of them are unfriendly . Maybe they just like to keep within their boundaries.
I am pretty sure that Australian caucasians also feel pretty uneasy talking to someone who looks different from them because of the risk of offending them. I know that when I first knew my friends.
For one of my good friends , I am actually her first asian good friend and it is quite easy to notice that I was the only asian invited to her wedding - I stuck out like a sore thumb. Only two persons spoke to me , not including the bride and groom and their parents , and they are my own friends from work, The other couple sitting next to me , caucasian and all , did not even attempt to continue much of a conversation with me even though I started one. That was until they got pretty tipsy and started blabbering.
If you want true integration , do it like France, no religious affliated public funded schools - standardised secular schools. Make everyone speak english or else leave Australia if they can't speak a shred of the lingua franca. Oh wait even better , set a racial quota for people in each suburb - only a certain number of people in certain ethnicities can own properties - aka Singapore HDB style. Oh but wait ....that sounds too racist to the ordinary Australian ......so really? How would you encourage integration instead of pointing your finger at asians and going on about them not integrating at all? -
That will never happen because not everybody qualifies for immigration status.
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It depends on the target destination in mind.Originally posted by maurizio13:That will never happen because not everybody qualifies for immigration status.
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An interesting article about Lee Hongyi advising his younger brother not to accept scholarship.
http://news.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20080111-44661.html -
Do you actually make an effort to know any asians in Australia? Or do you expect every single asian person , regardless of whether they are australians or not , to come up to you and try to make friends because you are some caucasian wanting integration? All of us , except for the indigenous people, regardless of where we are from , are just made up of migrant stock.Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:Socio-economic status is different, the reason for that is because of factors such as price of land and housing in the particular area, etc. but even so you'll still see other ethnicities of the same wealth still living apart. Integration shouldn't have to be explicitly forced, take Sweden for example. Even the American Muslims are well assimilated regardless of the obvious racial and religious tension.
Funny because I spoke with my friend who is a born and bred 5th generation australian caucasian girl. She doesn't appear to think that asians are isolating themselves from others. She seems to think the same way as I do probably because we both worked in hospitals.
The key issue of any integration is language not places. Places are usually surrounded by people of the same socioeconomic status and one additional commonality be it religion or ethnicity. So far , I have not met a single asian who can't speak some basic english . Some may speak broken english but they do try their best to speak your lingua franca instead of other ethnic groups who refuse to do so. They get made fun of, ignored because other australians can't understand them but they do try their best. I don't get the same treatment because I speak english fluenty and everyone understands what I am saying.
Chatswood used to be a caucasian area before becoming some sort of an asian area. Would you like to shed any reason why the caucasians moved out of the area other than pointing a finger to asians on non integration? It is not like asians forced them out or non integration - it is likely because the place was developing upwards ( as in apartments) while I know alot of Australian caucasians like their house and large garden lawns on the ground instead of an house in the sky.
I don't see alot of caucasian in high rise areas. I see alot of asians especially from high population density countries. They are used to high rises. The caucasians I know in Australia like to stay in suburbs and have their bbq parties out on a big lawn with a swimming pool in their backyard.
However I also do know of a few asians within a larger caucasian majority suburb , peacefully co existing with them side by side. I myself stayed in a caucasian majority area in Canberra (house and land is pretty everywhere there) and I was ok with my neighbours. There was only one who doesn't talk to me but the seven others spoke to me happily because I watch out for them as they watch out for me. -
Not for my asian friend and her family. They migrated from Taiwan. She stays in Caroline Springs. She is asian and 3 of her surrounding neighbours are actually caucasians. All of them working middle class white collar professionals. The extent of their communication is restricted to " hello, how's it going ?" or a good morning or good night ,small talk over gardens or the maintenance of their houses. They have their BBQ - they invite out of courtesy. She has a party - she invites them out of courtesy.Originally posted by jondizzle foshizzle:Socio-economic status is different, the reason for that is because of factors such as price of land and housing in the particular area, etc. but even so you'll still see other ethnicities of the same wealth still living apart. Integration shouldn't have to be explicitly forced, take Sweden for example. Even the American Muslims are well assimilated regardless of the obvious racial and religious tension.
Sweden has issues with integration . Seriously. So does the Netherlands. They are poor examples. Their version of integration is allowing the muslim community to do what they want. Ask any real average nordic swede - they will tell you something which you don't like to hear. They blame the middle easterns, africans and eastern european migrants for the rise in crime.
The netherlands put a stop to letting the muslim community do whatever they want because of the horrific murder of one film director committed by a group of extremist muslims. Why did he get killed? Because he produced a film they didn't like.
The American muslims cannot not well assimilated if they have religious tensions.
Let's face it.The muslim community in Singapore is very well integrated. The ones in Europe, USA and Australia are not because they have certain migrant muslim minority groups who make stupid statements at the expense of the bigger community who just wants to mind their own business. That causes alot problems with the larger society. -
allow me.
I think even if 90% sg born here migrated,
the economy continues.
this may mean that when a person and who becomes a sg'rean is not critical at all. like a company, all it needs is employees. permanent or contract staff is not critical. the business goes on.
what if a person working here is not a citizen? they can also be right? just apply and they have good chance right? there you go.
think about this and relate to what you see. -
allow me.
I think even if 90% sg born here migrated,
the economy continues.
this may mean that when a person and who becomes a sg'rean is not critical at all. like a company, all it needs is employees. permanent or contract staff is not critical. the business goes on. so many ft working here can easily get a citizen cert if they choose right? so, what is the worry if anyone migrate? i fail to see the point.
think about this and relate to what you see. -
I want a farm with watermill and good landscape overlooking pacific ocean....can I find it here?
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Try NZ. But there is a risk of earthquakes.Originally posted by Catknight:I want a farm with watermill and good landscape overlooking pacific ocean....can I find it here? -
Yup I agree with you.....the govt will get immigrants from wherever they can find them, provided they are 'educated' of course......its a running joke in the corporate and business world that expats will recommend their friends along to enjoy the good life here, whether they are good FTs or not so good FTs.....its a fact of life....good luckOriginally posted by SilentWitness:i dont think it matters to the singapore govt. if 50 percents of Singaporeans migrated, well they just gonna get more ppl from china n hong kong. simple. -
Kiasu-ism reduced by 50%
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if 50 percent can migrate there will be less grumbling here. but if u have the means and finacial capabilities to migrate just go
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I think this is a serious problem faced by our Government and a complex one.
I think creating affordable subsidized housing for citizens was a very good idea. However it's effectiveness seems limited to the lower income portion of our population.
I think higher ministerial pay packages was a bad idea.
Does anyone have any other suggestions to put forward?