Means Testing - double whammy for middle income
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Hey, the ministers are doing their part by freezing their million dollar salaries during recessions.Originally posted by eagle:Seems like the salary has to be raised because a recession is expected to come soon. If recession come le then harder to raise
What more you want?
Cut their pay?
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Are you going to believe that? If they minus 1, they will plus 1 somewhere.Originally posted by eagle:Prices of oil not determined by us.
But how will reducing taxes not help at all?
Goodness.
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Means testing was first suggested as a solution to overcrowded beds primarily in govt hospitals. There were widespread reports that people were checking themselves into class C wards over minor and trivial medical conditions, which the hospital cannot cater to.
In essence, doctors and nurses viewed these select group of people who hoard the beds as abusing the healthcare system with their shameless acts, just because they can 'pay' for it, denying vacancy to those really needy ones.
The objective behind means testing is admirable, but has the Health ministry really done a thorough review of the criteria and acceptance based on their formula? When initially raised at the last elections, it was taken to task by Sylvia Lim of the WP, and rightly so because there wasn't a strong set of guidelines governing it.
At that time, it is also believed that the plan was rescinded because it may cause the ruling party to lose votes; an unpopular plan would undoubtedly lose peopleÂ’s confidence.
Now that it has been re-introduced this time, without any form of referendum, it raises questions whether sufficient review of the concept has been performed to iron out the kinks, or if it was simply a convenient time (post election) to push the same untinkered policy. -
... I find all this so amazing; in that they are able to implement something as written in rock as the CPF but could not control or foresee such abuse of public services, to resort to this lame as hell Means Testing?Originally posted by BillyBong:Means testing was first suggested as a solution to overcrowded beds primarily in govt hospitals. There were widespread reports that people were checking themselves into class C wards over minor and trivial medical conditions, which the hospital cannot cater to.
In essence, doctors and nurses viewed these select group of people who hoard the beds as abusing the healthcare system with their shameless acts, just because they can 'pay' for it, denying vacancy to those really needy ones.
The objective behind means testing is admirable, but has the Health ministry really done a thorough review of the criteria and acceptance based on their formula? When initially raised at the last elections, it was taken to task by Sylvia Lim of the WP, and rightly so because there wasn't a strong set of guidelines governing it.
At that time, it is also believed that the plan was rescinded because it may cause the ruling party to lose votes; an unpopular plan would undoubtedly lose peopleÂ’s confidence.
Now that it has been re-introduced this time, without any form of referendum, it raises questions whether sufficient review of the concept has been performed to iron out the kinks, or if it was simply a convenient time (post election) to push the same untinkered policy. -
you do realise that it's absurd for means testing to be applied for people checking in over minor issues causing insufficient space right? no link between the 2....Originally posted by BillyBong:Means testing was first suggested as a solution to overcrowded beds primarily in govt hospitals. There were widespread reports that people were checking themselves into class C wards over minor and trivial medical conditions, which the hospital cannot cater to.
In essence, doctors and nurses viewed these select group of people who hoard the beds as abusing the healthcare system with their shameless acts, just because they can 'pay' for it, denying vacancy to those really needy ones.
The objective behind means testing is admirable, but has the Health ministry really done a thorough review of the criteria and acceptance based on their formula? When initially raised at the last elections, it was taken to task by Sylvia Lim of the WP, and rightly so because there wasn't a strong set of guidelines governing it.
At that time, it is also believed that the plan was rescinded because it may cause the ruling party to lose votes; an unpopular plan would undoubtedly lose peopleÂ’s confidence.
Now that it has been re-introduced this time, without any form of referendum, it raises questions whether sufficient review of the concept has been performed to iron out the kinks, or if it was simply a convenient time (post election) to push the same untinkered policy.
the solution would have been just to only give the beds to those who are judged to need it medically -
No one could have forseen that our people's attitude to social services and healthcare would become mercenary...we don't even give up seats for senior citizens in trains or buses....and we expect this in paid services?Originally posted by HyperFocal:... I find all this so amazing; in that they are able to implement something as written in rock as the CPF but could not control or foresee such abuse of public services, to resort to this lame as hell Means Testing?
It'll be 100 years before we have a sense of grace. -
..very much like they prefer to scratch their noses with their little toe, while standing with their hands upside down... -
If you have a patient who complains of back pain, is given a CT scan and monitored overnight, and found to be perfectly normal (nothing wrong), yet the patient complains still 'pain pain', demands a bed to stay for a week....well you know what i'm talking abt.Originally posted by hisoka:you do realise that it's absurd for means testing to be applied for people checking in over minor issues causing insufficient space right? no link between the 2....
the solution would have been just to only give the beds to those who are judged to need it medically
Plenty of these kind of kiasu people around who CAN pay for Class B wards and above but want to pay minimum and get maximum service.
And this doesn't even qualify for 'serious' conditions. -
... first off, GRACE must come from the government... which to date we have all yet to see...Originally posted by BillyBong:No one could have forseen that our people's attitude to social services and healthcare would become mercenary...we don't even give up seats for senior citizens in trains or buses....and we expect this in paid services?
It'll be 100 years before we have a sense of grace.
... personally, I feel our people would be more gracious if the people who lorded over us, have been gracious to begin with...
.. hence the saying; "like father, like son..." -
Seriously, our mindset has to change.Originally posted by HyperFocal:... first off, GRACE must come from the government... which to date we have all yet to see...
... personally, I feel our people would be more gracious if the people who lorded over us, have been gracious to begin with...
.. hence the saying; "like father, like son..."
Should we blame the govt for everything? They have their shortcomings and they'll have to deal with it. But an act of grace should come from ourselves. And all it takes is effort.
Driving with patience, less horning on the road, paying it forward to strangers with kind gestures....all counts so long as you really WANT to do it. A simple helping hand to an old lady climbing the stairs or assisting a blind man taking a bus; these are simple gestures, but they go a long way as examples to others. -
... I agree too, that there are still quite a lot of oncouth and selfish locals out there, but, through decades of living in a 'No Free Lunch' administration, has cultivated a mindset of self-preservation first... a Me First Mentality...Originally posted by BillyBong:Seriously, our mindset has to change.
Should we blame the govt for everything? They have their shortcomings and they'll have to deal with it. But an act of grace should come from ourselves. And all it takes is effort.
Driving with patience, less horning on the road, paying it forward to strangers with kind gestures....all counts so long as you really WANT to do it. A simple helping hand to an old lady climbing the stairs or assisting a blind man taking a bus; these are simple gestures, but they go a long way as examples to others.
.. each to and for his/her own... compete, excel and supersede everyone else...
While we progress economically, the building of character of a nation's people was left to rot on the wayside... hence to date, we have the matter of graciousness sorely lacking on our people...
... like a young child; if when young, manners were not taught and inculcated, he/she will grow up ill-mannered and self-centered... -
eh? so we blame our bad mannerism on our PARENTS?!?!?Originally posted by HyperFocal:... like a young child; if when young, manners were not taught and inculcated, he/she will grow up ill-mannered and self-centered...
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... techincally it appears that way; but haven't you noted how animals in the animal kingdom behave towards each other, when there is only one watering hole during a bad spell of drought?Originally posted by BillyBong:eh? so we blame our bad mannerism on our PARENTS?!?!?
... if dogs bite when cornered and backed up against a wall, same applies to humans... -
Which is why we homo saipiens are considered an intelligent species capable of independent thought.Originally posted by HyperFocal:... techincally it appears that way; but haven't you noted how animals in the animal kingdom behave towards each other, when there is only one watering hole during a bad spell of drought?
... if dogs bite when cornered and backed up against a wall, same applies to humans...
Rising above the degenerate and less developed species should be a given...unfortunately there are so many people in the world still clinging to tribal beliefs and feudalism-style living, with territorial disputes and religious fanatics rampant.
Anyway, we're deviating from the topic.
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seriously up to the discretion of the doctor. raising costs is not a way to deal with people who are admitted to the hospitals. the question to ask is rather why they are admitted.Originally posted by BillyBong:If you have a patient who complains of back pain, is given a CT scan and monitored overnight, and found to be perfectly normal (nothing wrong), yet the patient complains still 'pain pain', demands a bed to stay for a week....well you know what i'm talking abt.
Plenty of these kind of kiasu people around who CAN pay for Class B wards and above but want to pay minimum and get maximum service.
And this doesn't even qualify for 'serious' conditions.
if the doctor thinks it's malingering or just minor he can then choose not to ward him/her.
of course if you are telling me its because there are too many patients aiming for C wards then maybe its justifiable. but if you say the too many patients is caused by people with minor problems being warded then its another issue -
All these because of the RICH people ... they are plain selfish occupying what the poor would have needed .... sad ... wonder if they can bring their money into the next world . . . . .
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The decision to ward a person stems from the hypocritical oath; a patient experiencing real pain has to be checked-in and diagnosed regardless of whether the symptoms are real or not.Originally posted by hisoka:the question to ask is rather why they are admitted.
if the doctor thinks it's malingering or just minor he can then choose not to ward him/her.
The best equipment in the world cannot tell a doctor whether a patient is malingering, but to err on the side of caution is always the safest move.
The bane of hospitals is when too many of these kind of patients floods hospitals. Patients who are probably PERFECTLY FINE still demand to be kept overnight for examination...just to be on the safe side. Relatives demand medicine for non-existent illness; it's call psychological illnesses- gaining confidence in the form of treatment and medicine must be administered to re-assure the patient that he/she is FINE, when in truth, most were PROBABLY FINE in the first place.
The worst thing is that these are the people who take up the class C wards meant for the lower-income group. -
Since Law in SG is so "customizable", why can't they create a Legal Ruling that addresses such people who abuse Hospitals, instead of all this beating around the farking bullcrap bush???Originally posted by BillyBong:The decision to ward a person stems from the hypocritical oath; a patient experiencing real pain has to be checked-in and diagnosed regardless of whether the symptoms are real or not.
The best equipment in the world cannot tell a doctor whether a patient is malingering, but to err on the side of caution is always the safest move.
The bane of hospitals is when too many of these kind of patients floods hospitals. Patients who are probably PERFECTLY FINE still demand to be kept overnight for examination...just to be on the safe side. Relatives demand medicine for non-existent illness; it's call psychological illnesses- gaining confidence in the form of treatment and medicine must be administered to re-assure the patient that he/she is FINE, when in truth, most were PROBABLY FINE in the first place.
The worst thing is that these are the people who take up the class C wards meant for the lower-income group. -
did you choose to delete the top part of my post to try and cover the fact that all your points is covered by the part you deleted? it is up to the doctor to judge.Originally posted by BillyBong:The decision to ward a person stems from the hypocritical oath; a patient experiencing real pain has to be checked-in and diagnosed regardless of whether the symptoms are real or not.
The best equipment in the world cannot tell a doctor whether a patient is malingering, but to err on the side of caution is always the safest move.
The bane of hospitals is when too many of these kind of patients floods hospitals. Patients who are probably PERFECTLY FINE still demand to be kept overnight for examination...just to be on the safe side. Relatives demand medicine for non-existent illness; it's call psychological illnesses- gaining confidence in the form of treatment and medicine must be administered to re-assure the patient that he/she is FINE, when in truth, most were PROBABLY FINE in the first place.
The worst thing is that these are the people who take up the class C wards meant for the lower-income group.
I repeat if there are too many patients there might be cause to introduce means testing so that the lower subsidised wards are available. If too many people are admitted without good reasons, the problem lies in the admission and not the redistribution of wards.