SG 85,500 emigrate a year?
-
[quote]Originally posted by robertteh:
What Ngiam Tong Dow has said like the many mistakes in auto-piloting of many past government policies which no longer work are nothing new.
MM Lee insisted for years his many policies were the solutions for the country and they were obeyed without questioning by the MPs, civil servants or the public. Such policies as he believed in were practically forced down the throats of the people.
Just ask ourselves this question: why should Ngiam side with the people who complained about such wrongful policies.
What has Ngiam to gain in bringing such matter to public attention?
Truths have their way with right-thinking and righteous people like Catherine Lim or Ngiam Tong Dow or even other reputable insiders of the ruling party like Devan Nair or Ong Teng Cheong.
As long as some policies were not right and have caused suffering of the people, truths will eventually prevail.
MM Lee may use all kinds of hypocrisy to deny them but he would not be able to do so all the time as seen happening in NKF.
He may call critics all sorts of names like armchair critics, anti-government, lawless elements, quitters, insurgents or sour grapes or ungrateful but truths will prevail.
Just ask ourselves this question, why should people in high position like Ngiam Tong Dow side with these views. Is it not the case of Truths having a life of its own.[/quote
Robert, just exactly what is wrong with the kind of immigrants we are attracting? Is it they are mercenary? -
Originally posted by will4:
Morality. A government which governs the country without morality being only concerned with its own economic gains and look-good figures and statistics to make claims of success is not going to win the citizens' loyalty.
[quote]Originally posted by robertteh:
[b]
What Ngiam Tong Dow has said like the many mistakes in auto-piloting of many past government policies which no longer work are nothing new.
MM Lee insisted for years his many policies were the solutions for the country and they were obeyed without questioning by the MPs, civil servants or the public. Such policies as he believed in were practically forced down the throats of the people.
Just ask ourselves this question: why should Ngiam side with the people who complained about such wrongful policies.
What has Ngiam to gain in bringing such matter to public attention?
Truths have their way with right-thinking and righteous people like Catherine Lim or Ngiam Tong Dow or even other reputable insiders of the ruling party like Devan Nair or Ong Teng Cheong.
As long as some policies were not right and have caused suffering of the people, truths will eventually prevail.
MM Lee may use all kinds of hypocrisy to deny them but he would not be able to do so all the time as seen happening in NKF.
He may call critics all sorts of names like armchair critics, anti-government, lawless elements, quitters, insurgents or sour grapes or ungrateful but truths will prevail.
Just ask ourselves this question, why should people in high position like Ngiam Tong Dow side with these views. Is it not the case of Truths having a life of its own.[/quote
Robert, just exactly what is wrong with the kind of immigrants we are attracting? Is it they are mercenary?[/b]
For years government has already shown its tendency to be selfish towards its own survival and own cause. In recessions, the first thing it was thinking of doing is to blame the people for lack of skill forgetting to mention its failure in economic restructuring.
It was not surprising that the first thing the government was doing was to cut people's wages and CPF and trying to make wages variable without the least concern for citizens' survival.
Many citizens have already migrated to other countries and more are joining the quitters. How much damages can be quantified by such desertions.
The true talents in many fields have left us and taken up better prospect for their own good. Under this type of government how do we expect our citizens to support in nation building or contributing to many projects like biomedical or IT researches.
Just watch the deepening drift and apathy of our citizens. Many more will be leaving just for their own personal selfish reason so what kind of future do we have for the people unless of course one is well connected to the power that be. -
Robert, understand u quite concerned with the state of the affairs of the country. As for the people who left here for other countries, their CPF isOriginally posted by robertteh:Morality. A government which governs the country without morality being only concerned with its own economic gains and look-good figures and statistics to make claims of success is not going to win the citizens' loyalty.
For years government has already shown its motives and agenda is one of sacrificing people interests e.g. during recessions the first thing the government ministers are thinking of doing is to cut their wages and CPF and trying to introduce variable wages without the least concern of its promises to use reserves for such purposes.
Many citizens have already migrated to other countries and more are joining the quitters. How much damages can be quantified by such desertions due to such a self-serving government?
The true talents in many fields have left us and taken up employment in other countries so what is the prospect of our succeeding in biomedical or IT researches.
Just watch the deepening drift and apathy of our citizens. Many more will be leaving just to avoid such a government which will not have good future for the people unless of course one is well connected to the power that be.
still being retained in the country unless they chose to give up their local citizenship n furthermore once they given up their citizenship, they are not able to become citizen of this country any longer. As for the biomedical sector, there is plenty of graduates each year. How come the govt is sitll woried about the brain drain? -
Robert, u think the rate of migration by the locals to other countries will continue to become more n more as year passed by?Originally posted by robertteh:Morality. A government which governs the country without morality being only concerned with its own economic gains and look-good figures and statistics to make claims of success is not going to win the citizens' loyalty.
For years government has already shown its tendency to be selfish towards its own survival and own cause. In recessions, the first thing it was thinking of doing is to blame the people for lack of skill forgetting to mention its failure in economic restructuring.
It was not surprising that the first thing the government was doing was to cut people's wages and CPF and trying to make wages variable without the least concern for citizens' survival.
Many citizens have already migrated to other countries and more are joining the quitters. How much damages can be quantified by such desertions.
The true talents in many fields have left us and taken up better prospect for their own good. Under this type of government how do we expect our citizens to support in nation building or contributing to many projects like biomedical or IT researches.
Just watch the deepening drift and apathy of our citizens. Many more will be leaving just for their own personal selfish reason so what kind of future do we have for the people unless of course one is well connected to the power that be. -
so long u do your home work properly,
u can take the Just do it mind set.--move to country u
have confidence and suitable for u.
Beware ur info provider have conflict of interest.
Nevermind people how to look at u.It is ok even u move to KL or JB.
Every one has its own needs.--no joke.
Just do it.
1.''ONE in five Britons''want to leave.Do your home work properly
Wish u have wisdoms to make decision,
have courage to do it,
have patience to overcome difficulties
have persistance to fullfill your dream.
Well.i may see u in JB or Perth ha ham or Beijing or Moscow!!
The Sunday Times August 27, 2006,10m want to quit 'over-taxed' UK
David Cracknell, Political EditorONE in five Britons — nearly 10m adults — is considering leaving the country amid growing disillusionment over the failure of political parties to deliver tax cuts, according to a new poll.
The extensive survey conducted by ICM, the polling company, shows that — contrary to the current approach of both Labour and the Tories — an overwhelming majority of voters do want to see cuts in income and inheritance tax.
The results will raise alarm in both political camps, but particularly for David Cameron, who has yet to solidify the ConservativesÂ’ lead over Labour in the opinion polls.
The Tory leader, who has ditched his party’s long-standing commitment to tax cuts in favour of “economic stability”, has maintained a solid lead over Labour since May in most of the polls, but is still well short of securing a majority.
TodayÂ’s poll shows that many people are highly disillusioned with the British political system and nearly half the population do not associate themselves with the main parties. It suggests that a majority believe tax cuts would be affordable if public services were genuinely reformed, but they have little faith that any party could achieve this.
The results suggest that Cameron could be missing an “open goal” by failing to capitalise on the desire for tax cuts.
The poll found that a large majority of people — 81% against 9% — supported a “significant” increase in the £32,000 threshold for the 40% tax band, which would take more people on middling incomes out of that bracket.
The detailed market research, carried out by ICM on behalf of the TaxpayersÂ’ Alliance (TPA), an independent political lobbying group, comes as some modernising MPs are beginning to argue for a break with the current taboo over tax.
Labour, under Tony Blair and the chancellor Gordon Brown, has shied away from income tax rises, fearing they would frighten middle-class voters. Cameron, whose party has traditionally supported lower taxes, has sought to change that perception amid Labour accusations that the Tories will cut spending on vital public services.
Last week Stephen Byers, the former Labour minister, argued for the abolition of inheritance tax. He said that the levy of 40% on estates worth more than £285,000 was a “penalty for hard work, thrift and enterprise”. This weekend George Osborne, the shadow chancellor, responded by advocating the abolition of stamp duty on shares to “repair the damage” done by Labour’s raid on pension funds. The Tories say the move would increase the average pension fund by £8,000.
CameronÂ’s Tories have sided with Labour policy on economic stability and investment in public services before tax cuts, but the poll shows that a majority of the public still want governments to take less out of their wage packets.
The key finding of the study, in which 1,000 people were interviewed, is that people hold the political parties and the system in contempt and are strongly attracted to the prospect of real change.
It found that emigration is a possibility for more than one in five people. Asked if they had thought about moving abroad, 16% said they had given it
“serious thought” and a further 6% said they planned to do so.
The poll will be a further blow to Blair, who returned from his three-week Caribbean holiday this weekend to more speculation about his future.
Tessa Jowell, one of his most loyal cabinet ministers, admitted yesterday that his plans to step down as leader were creating “a sense of uncertainty” within the Labour party. Geoff Hoon, the Europe minister, acknowledged that the government had been going through “problems” and people were beginning to see Cameron as a serious alternative.
Downing Street sought to shore up Blair’s position after the defection of 37 Labour members from the Derby constituency of Margaret Beckett, the foreign secretary, to the Liberal Democrats in protest at his failure to condemn Israeli military action in Lebanon. An unusual statement from No 10 insisted the prime minister was “convinced that his government has the experience and authority to meet these challenges”.
Today’s poll results suggest there is little belief that the current political system can fix people’s problems and show strong support for tax cuts. It shows 76% of people favour lowering the basic rate of income tax. People also agreed by about three to one — 56% to 17% — that reforming public services would allow tax cuts without reducing spending on vital services, although many doubted this would happen.
The Tories’ unwillingness to argue for lower taxes has, according to the TPA, “left an open goal” for other parties.
There were majorities in favour of “significant” increases of personal allowances and for raising the threshold for inheritance tax or abolishing it.
Worryingly for Cameron, 36% of people did not back his stance that cutting taxes could threaten economic stability.
The TPA, which has 15,000 members, believes politicians are failing to recognise a genuine desire for tax cuts among the public. Matthew Elliott, its chief executive, said: “The parties’ conventional wisdom about public opinion is wrong. The parties are all wrongly committed to the status quo of high taxes and massive power for MPs. The public rightly don’t believe them and want change.
“They want large tax cuts and serious reform to get MPs out of managing services and to get non-MPs, who know what they’re doing, into government.”
The poll shows strong disillusionment with the main political parties. Only 24% of people identify with the Labour party, 17% with the Tories and 9% with the Liberal Democrats. Four out of 10 people do not identify with any party.
When asked to choose between Brown, BlairÂ’s likely successor, and Cameron, the public is divided with 38% favouring each man.
ICM interviewed 1,000 people between July 31 and August 2. Full details of the poll are at www.taxpayersalliance.com -
Take an example, a number of good talents who graduated with first-class honors in IT that I know of are not coming back after graduation, reason being that they would rather accept job offer in US and UK to work with good companies there rather than here.Originally posted by will4:Robert, u think the rate of migration by the locals to other countries will continue to become more n more as year passed by?
Why is it that our best graduates think this way. Not surprising, due to years of assumption that our growth prospect lies with offering incentives to MNCs or foreign firms, our ministers have neglected promoting growths of our own capabilities. They have been barking up the wrong trees.
The real economic restructuring will happen only when we have good knowledgeable ministers who know how to create value-adding industries consistently to encourage our own companies to grow in those directions.
Taiwan did this successfully in the early years from the 1960s when they sent large number of good students to acquire IT knowledge and holistically win them back with real job offers found among Taiwan's own domestic industries and finally through that holistic restructuring Taiwan enjoyed good growths in computer and IT which made Taiwan the leading semi-conductor and Computer manufacturers in the world.
Of course Taiwan today might well have forgotten such success formula.
We do not yet have any ministers who are knowledgeable or passionate in wanting to create value-adding jobs or technology start-ups. Japan after the world holistically applied knowledge application in all fields resulting in surge in their industrializations for many years.
Today we are still stuck in the old policy of attracting investors with money or tax incentives which are no longer the effective solution as in the beginning.
There ought to be wholesome supportive knowledge-based industries in order to attract good value-adding foreign companies to locate and stay on here. Again due to past one-tracked policy only aimed at winning investments with incentives and monies such restructuring as Taiwan or Japan have done in the past did not happen for many years for such lack of direction and strategies.
Without creating or bringing up good capable companies in various field we are flogging the dead horse now. Not only will good companies not establish here, our good overseas graduates will also not come back to serve us.
There will be high degree of migration of our best graduates to best companies overseas for many years to come due to shortsightedness of our own top-down government. -
i am sad to read postings here to reject immigrants when almost
all of us here are off springs of immigrants!!!
do u know the First Cabinets in Sg,only LKY was born here,
the rest from MY and India?
Remember there is a old joke that IC in Silicon Valley
make of Indian and Chinese.
Nowadays,even UK and US etc looking for talents in every levels
from PhD in Bio--medicine to chef.Jan 23, 2008 Strait Times
It's S'pore's gain even if 30-40% of immigrants settle here: MM Lee
By Li Xueying, In Riyadh[/color]
MM Lee was responding to a conference participant who wanted to know how Singapore became a Top Ten country in the area of intellectual property and capital. -- PHOTO: ST FILE
EVEN if just 30 to 40 per cent of new immigrants here do eventually make Singapore their permanent home, this will strengthen Singapore's capabilities immensely.
Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew gave this upbeat assessment here on Tuesday, even as he acknowledges that some immigrants use Singapore as a 'stepping stone'.
It is all part and parcel of the 'mobile world for talented at the top? and the global race for them. We lose some but we're gaining more,' he said.
On the young and bright Chinese and Indians coming to Singapore, he said: 'Some use us as a stepping stone, take courses at our university, then they go off to US, where the streets are paved of gold, and some don't come back.'
'But even if we have 30 to 40 per cent of them staying, we have reinforced our capabilities immensely.'
Mr Lee was responding to a conference participant who wanted to know how Singapore became a Top Ten country in the area of intellectual property and capital.
Foreign talent is key. Mr Lee cited how when Singapore established the Institute of Molecular and Cell Biology in 1987 with 200 people, just 20 were Singaporeans.
'The rest of the 180 came from Britain, Sweden, US, Japan, all over the world.'
Speaking to the Singapore media, Mr Lee said: 'Top talent is needed everywhere. The more top talent the country has, the more it will prosper.So the Americans have been attracting Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Russians. We're attracting a few but we are losing a few. So we're competing against what others can offer.' -
what?!Originally posted by lionnoisy:1.''ONE in five Britons''want to leave.Do your home work properly
Wish u have wisdoms to make decision,
have courage to do it,
have patience to overcome difficulties
have persistance to fullfill your dream.
Well. i may see u in JB or Perth ha ham or Beijing or Moscow!!
after all the anti-oz bashing and ur online fiesty claims of sg loyalty, YOU ARE MOVING TO PERTH? -
Originally posted by fishbuff:what?!
after all the anti-oz bashing and ur online fiesty claims of sg loyalty, YOU ARE MOVING TO PERTH?
conveniently hypocrite -
MM Lee also acknowledged the fact streets in US are paved with gold which mean there are more opportunities in US than in Spore.Originally posted by lionnoisy:i am sad to read postings here to reject immigrants when almost
all of us here are off springs of immigrants!!!
do u know the First Cabinets in Sg,only LKY was born here,
the rest from MY and India?
Remember there is a old joke that IC in Silicon Valley
make of Indian and Chinese.
Nowadays,even UK and US etc looking for talents in every levels
from PhD in Bio--medicine to chef. -
MM Lee admitted his policies worked in 70 % polices.
Ngiam Tong Dow is correct like saying HDB built in sea front,near bungalow area etc expensive locations.
But there wae more urgent need to house million of people in 1960!!Remember PAP took 3 years to build some 20,000 public housing units,while the Great UK colonial gavamen took some 30 years to build 23,000!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Improvement_Trust
In 1950 and 1960,it is a uphill task to make sure there were foods on the table EVERYDAY for EVERY family.
Ask your grand/parents .
Some of u just take it for granted that u should have a mwal to eat,computer to play.....
2.LKY admitted wrong to let a oil company in Pasir Panjiang sea front.But what to do?Under the serious unemployment era,SG need MNC ,or even SME to create jobs.
LKY never said he was perfect.
SG bargaining power was weak then.
3.With due respect,i am wondering why Ngiam could not be promoted to cabinet?He was the youngest PS!!
-
Originally posted by fishbuff:
sporean emigrants benefits;
- exempted from NS liabilty (NS for singaporeans, job for foreigners)
- free from forced organ donation.
- no overcrowded living.
- humane working environment
- no overpriced cars with COE and ERP.
- no HDB leasing (they can take back your flat anytime)
- no stuff stupid policies down your throat and couldnt care if u gag. (remember GST, minister pay, transportation cost increase?)
- no lack of jobs opportunity when u grow old.
- no expensive medical care when u are sick.
- no expensive ministers that know only to add more burdens to u.
- no elitism. in SG, when u are at the bottom or middle, u are a serf to a greater good. and namely, the Lees and PAP are the greater good.
when u surrender your citizenship, your CPF will be liberated! u dont have to wait until 85 to get it!
my PRC friend here in brisbane works as a Bar-qua prep worker and can live in a 2-storey bungalow in a good suburb with a new toyota car.
so.. what will your decision be?
fishbuff, if you want to talk about it that way, there are also many young executive in Singapore who is driving zooming around in bimmers, porsche and merc, and their cars are probably more expensive than the bunglow you talking about.So what wil be your decision? To retire in Australia or to make your fortune in Singapore?
-
Originally posted by TCH05:
fishbuff, if you want to talk about it that way, there are also many young executive in Singapore who is driving zooming around in bimmers, porsche and merc, and their cars are probably more expensive than the bunglow you talking about.So what wil be your decision? To retire in Australia or to make your fortune in Singapore?
i have exchanged emails with u before and can see u aren't too bright.
go ahead and believe whether please you in the matrix.
in the meantime, i will rescue whoever want to get out of the system.
-
Originally posted by fishbuff:
i have exchanged emails with u before and can see u aren't too bright.
go ahead and believe whether please you in the matrix.
in the meantime, i will rescue whoever want to get out of the system.
Fishbuff, like to ask u a question for those local n Spore PR who have not completed their ten year ICT n they applied to migrate to other countries, must they complete all their ICT? I understand the exit permit is valid only for two years. -
Originally posted by TCH05:
fishbuff, if you want to talk about it that way, there are also many young executive in Singapore who is driving zooming around in bimmers, porsche and merc, and their cars are probably more expensive than the bunglow you talking about.Seems like the difference is that the money earned here is probably enough for us to buy a nice car to zoom around the ERP infested country instead of beine enough for us to buy a nice and big bungalow to stay in?
-
Originally posted by will4:
Fishbuff, like to ask u a question for those local n Spore PR who have not completed their ten year ICT n they applied to migrate to other countries, must they complete all their ICT? I understand the exit permit is valid only for two years.nope. if u are staying abroad, they lan lan have to let u stay there, but u will back log all your ICT trainings.
one of my acquaints went thru' lots of difficulties to emigrate to perth, wife's relatives keep psychoing her to come back to sg, so the man was very obedient to the wife, packed up and went back to sg.
what the relatives do? nothing. the man has to re-establish himself in sg selling electronics goods. he has two kids, one past over 12 years old and no longer eligible to move overseas unless he is prepared to pay S$75,000 bond to the govt.
can they move back to perth? No. the condition of oz immigration has changed and they cant qualify.
Did they regret the decision? yes!
Did the wife's relatives achieve their goal of dragging the couple back into the drowning pool? yup, pretty much so. They got them back to sg becoz of their envy and jealously.
-
why many sg'reans emigrated?
why so easy to come sg work and migration is welcome here so much?
yibah yibah unterleh!
-
fishbuff,
how come there is a bond to pay to PAP? I don't understand... he done NS rite? he come back and live in SG rite? that means there shouldn't be a bond. I mean you can go to M'sia and disappear, but what bond is this?
-
Originally posted by spade1:
fishbuff,
how come there is a bond to pay to PAP? I don't understand... he done NS rite? he come back and live in SG rite? that means there shouldn't be a bond. I mean you can go to M'sia and disappear, but what bond is this?
What Fishbuff is refering about the bond is the NS bond which local n Spore PR have to pay to Mindef in the event that if the local's children who went abroad n refused to come back to serve full time NS, the bond of $75000 will be forfeited. -
Originally posted by TCH05:
fishbuff, if you want to talk about it that way, there are also many young executive in Singapore who is driving zooming around in bimmers, porsche and merc, and their cars are probably more expensive than the bunglow you talking about.So what wil be your decision? To retire in Australia or to make your fortune in Singapore?
So many young executives zooming in bimmers, porsche and merc....so how many of those people actually borrowed money for the status symbol ?
In Australia, a merc can cost around 40k to 150k (for the SLK series). You see second hands, third hands and a few first hands around. Go to germany and you will see crap loads of mercedes benz. In Sweden, crap loads of volvos.
Not really a status symbol around Australia plus most people prefer SUVs because they are better for long distance and terrain drives. Humvees are more of the status symbol in Australia.
I think I prefer to keep my property in Australia. Stay around in Australia and do what I like to do while earning my money.
-
that really shows a negative sign..
-
i am sad to learn more about the standard of forumers here.they just assess any postings from WHO,iso based on WHAT is the posting.
1.When a western professor mistaken,or purposely make it look like mistaken,the migration issue of Singapore,NO BODY stand up and shoot him?
Why?Is it because he is the fren of CSJ?now u are more interested on CSJ!!
This Western Professor picked a figure from www.cia.gov/ anf think that this is the EMIGRATION figure of SG outgoing to other countries.
In fact ,it is just the opposite.This is the net IMMGRATION incoming figure!!
2.What a zxxx!!This Professor shall be cancelled his tenure and expelled from the University.
3.Who is this poor professor?
Dr Arthur Waldron is the Lauder Professor of International Relations in the Department of History at the University of Pennsylvania. He is also the Vice President of International Assessment and Strategy Center.
4.Pl join me write to Penn U!!
5.BTW,SG pop increases from 4.11 million in 2003 to 4.59 in 2007.
http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/popn/respop.pdf
-
Enjoy being a sardine.
-
Sometimes I just wonder... Analogies are useless... You talk about sardines... I might as well talk about physics, the kinetic theory... Which one do you think is tougher? Gas, liquid or solid?
-
Originally posted by eagle:
Sometimes I just wonder... Analogies are useless... You talk about sardines... I might as well talk about physics, the kinetic theory... Which one do you think is tougher? Gas, liquid or solid?
H2O, since H2O can be in the form of gas, liquid or solid. :)