Spend on Citibank or Hospital bill?
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First of all... we have to make it clear on one statement ...Originally posted by EarlNeo:One simple example, no money to give to the old and sick, but have enough to rise their own salary and left over spare used in the name to invest.
If the government is like the head of ur home, ie. ur dad/mum, and the citizen, the family member. How would u feel if ur dad/mum rather spend the money to invest, buy car (using his pay) rather then to pay for ur granny hospital bill or ur education fees?
Wouldnt the logical order be, paying for ur granny bills 1st, then ur education, then invest... and lastly, if there is spare left, self rewarding?
This the kind of so call s'porean family (country) we lived in.
"
1) Never give money to the old and sick at all?
or
2) Never give enough money to the old and sick ?
"
if it is (1), I guess yr example is valid and yup... tat sucks
if it is (2), wat is considered enough ???
- to give money to live forever (enough ?) or to give money to live in one's own limit (enough?)
- to give money to allow one person to have one degree (enough ?) or to give money to allow one person to have multiple degrees (enough ?)
A human's greed or rather desire varies... And most of them just want more and more... U can never satisfied them... tat is y they invented a term "new poor"
And in their logical sense (not mine , not yours), they feels tat they should :-
pay just enough to the ganny --> pay just enough education --> then invest...
The term enough is judged by them and not us... y is it not judged by us??? Because their pay is much much much higher than us... -
Ur doubt is easier to clear. If dad is poor, no money or not enough money for granny hospital bill, who will blame dad? If dad have money to self reward himself (more salary), and invest (cit bank), but claim not enough to full pay granny bill, do u think dad is poor?Originally posted by ispyyy:First of all... we have to make it clear on one statement ...
"
1) Never give money to the old and sick at all?
or
2) Never give enough money to the old and sick ?
"
if it is (1), I guess yr example is valid and yup... tat sucks
if it is (2), wat is considered enough ???
- to give money to live forever (enough ?) or to give money to live in one's own limit (enough?)
- to give money to allow one person to have one degree (enough ?) or to give money to allow one person to have multiple degrees (enough ?)
A human's greed or rather desire varies... And most of them just want more and more... U can never satisfied them... tat is y they invented a term "new poor"
And in their logical sense (not mine , not yours), they feels tat they should :-
pay just enough to the ganny --> pay just enough education --> then invest...
The term enough is judged by them and not us... y is it not judged by us??? Because their pay is much much much higher than us...
But worse is dad instead of giving free education or fully paid granny bill, go around asking his children for more household contribution (gst) saying that is for granny own good. And the next day, u see dad new car park outside the house and poor granny bill still unpaid.
Nothing is free but neither is singapore a poor country. Yet it cant even provide simple free education like those in the EU with lesser money stock up.
Ppl are selected into the government to help and serve the citizen. But our government are paying themselves highest salary so that they wont be tempted NOT to volunteer their service. Make any sense? -
... good analogy...Originally posted by EarlNeo:Ur doubt is easier to clear. If dad is poor, no money or not enough money for granny hospital bill, who will blame dad? If dad have money to self reward himself (more salary), and invest (cit bank), but claim not enough to full pay granny bill, do u think dad is poor?
But worse is dad instead of giving free education or fully paid granny bill, go around asking his children for more household contribution (gst) saying that is for granny own good. And the next day, u see dad new car park outside the house and poor granny bill still unpaid.
Nothing is free but neither is singapore a poor country. Yet it cant even provide simple free education like those in the EU with lesser money stock up.
Ppl are selected into the government to help and serve the citizen. But our government are paying themselves highest salary so that they wont be tempted NOT to volunteer their service. Make any sense? -
Nope... u still have not clear the doubtOriginally posted by EarlNeo:Ur doubt is easier to clear. If dad is poor, no money or not enough money for granny hospital bill, who will blame dad? If dad have money to self reward himself (more salary), and invest (cit bank), but claim not enough to full pay granny bill, do u think dad is poor?
But worse is dad instead of giving free education or fully paid granny bill, go around asking his children for more household contribution (gst) saying that is for granny own good. And the next day, u see dad new car park outside the house and poor granny bill still unpaid.
Nothing is free but neither is singapore a poor country. Yet it cant even provide simple free education like those in the EU with lesser money stock up.
Ppl are selected into the government to help and serve the citizen. But our government are paying themselves highest salary so that they wont be tempted NOT to volunteer their service. Make any sense?
The statement is :-
"
1) Never give money to the old and sick at all?
or
2) Never give enough money to the old and sick ?
"
In fact, u r not in the position to clear the doubt... Coz, u n me r just the kid in the family... Coz, to judge enough or not enough is not intellectually for u n me to understand but for them to judge... Coz, they r supposed to lead us in the future...
Take yr example :-
Assuming grannies hosipital bill is (4million x $5000) = 20 billion
Assuming dad's pay increase is 20 million
Mathematically comparing between 20 million n 20 billion, wat do u think ???
Whether is Singapore poor or rich country... no1 except PAP noes... In fact, the whole world is eager to noe how rich is Singapore... Being rich in cash only does not mean rich in assests...
In fact to my opinion, Singapore has little future... Coz, lack of land, resources, culture and drive.. These r actually the more important assest for a nation than cash ...
Since it is not intellectually understandable, we should just wait n see wat happens in the future... Rather than being shallow... if the investment in citigrp fails like wat happen in thailand, I guess it is time for the opposition to rise... -
U are missing the point. I did clear it up for u, for the question is not in whether what is consider enough. It is which come 1st and which the priority is. When dad have money, does he 1st spend it on granny bill or children education, which the EU are doing (cheap, if not free, healthcare and free education). Then spend the rest of other important thing in life. Here, daddy self rewarding come 1st b4 granny life and shamelessly ask for more $$ from his children.Originally posted by ispyyy:Nope... u still have not clear the doubt
The statement is :-
"
1) Never give money to the old and sick at all?
or
2) Never give enough money to the old and sick ?
"
In fact, u r not in the position to clear the doubt... Coz, u n me r just the kid in the family... Coz, to judge enough or not enough is not intellectually for u n me to understand but for them to judge... Coz, they r supposed to lead us in the future...
Take yr example :-
Assuming grannies hosipital bill is (4million x $5000) = 20 billion
Assuming dad's pay increase is 20 million
Mathematically comparing between 20 million n 20 billion, wat do u think ???
Whether is Singapore poor or rich country... no1 except PAP noes... In fact, the whole world is eager to noe how rich is Singapore... Being rich in cash only does not mean rich in assests...
In fact to my opinion, Singapore has little future... Coz, lack of land, resources, culture and drive.. These r actually the more important assest for a nation than cash ...
Since it is not intellectually understandable, we should just wait n see wat happens in the future... Rather than being shallow... if the investment in citigrp fails like wat happen in thailand, I guess it is time for the opposition to rise...
Dun need to add more factor into a simple analogy. There is always ever increasing need and uses for money. For future or others. But to me, daddy comfort come last compare to granny and children need.
How to justify expensive health care when u are asking for more money(gst) and yet increasing ur own salary at the same time? After gst increase, did heatlhcare become cheaper? Only see MP pay rasing. It is like telling u i dun have money to pay for granny bill, but i have have enough to buy a new car.
Well, u dun have to go far to see is singapore is rich or poor. Just look at the singapore monetary reserve will do
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_reserves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_funds
Among the top 10 in the world for a country this small of only 4million ppl.
Like my 1st post, buying citi bank is an investment. Which is good, in my view. Only different is, sg government is like any other business, only care about the boss, shareholder money and not the employee. Which shouldnt be the case! It should be run like a big family.
just my innocent and navie 2 cent view. -
why people must fall sick???
how can all of you stay here...muttering around when there are people in africa starving to death???
why am i here?
becos i not god mah.....
invest in citibank or paying grandma's hospital bill.......
1... its your grandma... not mine
2... if govt dont invest in citibank and generate more money... you will not only be paying your grandma's hospital bill... but the govt subsidies part as well... if our govt run out of money... -
how can buying a car and investing in citibank be a good anal-logy?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... good analogy...
one is consumption... the other is investment.... or you cant differentiate the two??
one generates comfort.. the other generates returns.... -
oh i think the interest of S$700 million a year fr CITI can build
a hospital..
1.every investment is not sure win
but no risk no gain.
Do u want our reserve in in fixed deposit to earn 1% to
7 % pa,depending which currency u put?
The purchase of Standard Chartered for $US 4 billion looks very smart,
thanks to very bad performance of other major banks,
S chartered increases 20%,other banks drops 30 to 50 %!!22=4" />
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in fact... if the govt dont invest... our reserves will depreciate over time due to inflation... its an undeniable fact.
luckily, our govt didnt use our reserves like our neighbour... sending a monkey up to space to makan nasi lemak.... -
So if your dad decided to use his money to invest instead of paying grandma's hospital bill., that's okay with you?Originally posted by tripwire:how can buying a car and investing in citibank be a good anal-logy?
one is consumption... the other is investment.... or you cant differentiate the two??
one generates comfort.. the other generates returns....
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There are high and low risk investment. Government shouldn't use the ppl money for high risk investment (but that's another issue).Originally posted by tripwire:in fact... if the govt dont invest... our reserves will depreciate over time due to inflation... its an undeniable fact.
luckily, our govt didnt use our reserves like our neighbour... sending a monkey up to space to makan nasi lemak....
As for our neighbour sending monkey to space? So the US, China are stupid to waste their money to send ppl to space? There are many factors such as showing of military strength, etc. to do so. -
..All those GST increase ended as fat salaries in their pockets...and they allow so many foreigners(PRs and citizens) so as to buy up our excess HDB flats and create a picture of booming S'pore with all the Chinese and Indians invading our small island-prostitutes,breakup in families,spitting,drive down wages..Singapore is now for the rich...the poor will never catch up..even education can't create equity in wealth distribution? But the irony is that the public still gives them>70% support in every general election..just can't understand......they demoralise the opposition until no strong opposition can give a good fight.....GRC ..so many candiates..some>must be of different ethnic groups...how to get..that's the way to perpetuate their rules....time to migrateOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:... they happily take massive amounts of public money for their own salaries... and the people can suffer with illnesses for all they care... Despots -
our govt got abandon your grandma meh???Originally posted by royston_ang:So if your dad decided to use his money to invest instead of paying grandma's hospital bill., that's okay with you?
come on... there are medical social workers in every hospital... if you cant pay.. they will apply the govt for medifund... and foot every cent of your bill.
but if you can pay... help pay abit of the cost lah... so that the govt can spare more money to help those other grandma that needs it more .... is that wrong?
isit wrong for the govt to invest our national savings to generate more income for the future of singapore???
singapore have nothing for your information.... we have no natural resources... when we first gained independence we only have a mountain of debt.... do you want singapore to end up like that again??
would a poor singapore make your grandma happy? -
walao... you blind or wat?? other country use their own technology and industrial capability to send their OWN people to space.....Originally posted by royston_ang:There are high and low risk investment. Government shouldn't use the ppl money for high risk investment (but that's another issue).
As for our neighbour sending monkey to space? So the US, China are stupid to waste their money to send ppl to space? There are many factors such as showing of military strength, etc. to do so.
malaysian astronaut is nothing more then a space tourist on general public fund ticket.... where got same???
to the rest of the world.. malaysian astronaut in space... is no different from USA and USSR routine sending of monkeys, rats and pigs to space....
at least the monkeys, rats and pigs gets to go free of charge.... malaysian astronaut is excess luggage. -
ah pek... dont know economics.... dont come here throw face... very childish leh...Originally posted by 787180:..All those GST increase ended as fat salaries in their pockets...and they allow so many foreigners(PRs and citizens) so as to buy up our excess HDB flats and create a picture of booming S'pore with all the Chinese and Indians invading our small island-prostitutes,breakup in families,spitting,drive down wages..Singapore is now for the rich...the poor will never catch up..even education can't create equity in wealth distribution? But the irony is that the public still gives them>70% support in every general election..just can't understand......they demoralise the opposition until no strong opposition can give a good fight.....GRC ..so many candiates..some>must be of different ethnic groups...how to get..that's the way to perpetuate their rules....time to migrate
fat salaries?? ever heard of the hokkien dialect.... ai pi, ai ji, gu ai tua liap ni?
i also want to buy washing machine at 1 dollar... air con at 3 dollar... car at 4 dollar and a house at 5 dollar....and pay our govt only 10 dollar a month, but you think possible or not?
which countries dont have poor.. dont have wage gap.... tell me where is this shangri lah....on earth... (heaven dont count.)
.... gotta go work.... see you.... -
LoL, i should have use buying a bigger house instead of a car. Since it is both an investment, generate return and comfort too. (Btw, the car represent salary increment, not citi investment)Originally posted by tripwire:how can buying a car and investing in citibank be a good anal-logy?
one is consumption... the other is investment.... or you cant differentiate the two??
one generates comfort.. the other generates returns....
Well, with the reserve singapore have, why is the healthcare still so expensive compare to other developed country with much lesser reserve? They din abandon anyone grand ma (i never said that), but couldnt they have done more. Dun u agree? They have ur parent working 6~7 days a week just to provide with enough $$ to pay for ur granny bills and children education. Why? Coz hospital and school have to generate profit? Can't get into uni co quota is full, but to pay even more have to go oversea or study private?Originally posted by tripwire:our govt got abandon your grandma meh???
come on... there are medical social workers in every hospital... if you cant pay.. they will apply the govt for medifund... and foot every cent of your bill.
but if you can pay... help pay abit of the cost lah... so that the govt can spare more money to help those other grandma that needs it more .... is that wrong?
isit wrong for the govt to invest our national savings to generate more income for the future of singapore???
singapore have nothing for your information.... we have no natural resources... when we first gained independence we only have a mountain of debt.... do you want singapore to end up like that again??
would a poor singapore make your grandma happy?
Investment is a great thing. But cant it come after the house are clean, everyone feed and well care for? A poor s'pore dun make granny happy, but neither will a rich s'pore that dun care about granny. Let face it, if u been to EU, u will see the different treatment they dish out to their elderly. Over there, ppl treat elderly with respect and an asset. Here they are liability that our gov cant wait to shed off.
Oh talking abt history, who is the one responsible for transforming s'pore from a debt ridden country to the rich one now. Its the sick granny and her mate now lying in hospital bed worrying abt how to pay the next bill sent out to them.
Bottom line, thing could have been 10 time better off if only they care more on issue that concern the well being of the citizen beside just the money making aspect. -
Originally posted by ispyyy:
Singapore rich.... dun need to be PAP also noe.... see their pay can le
[b]Whether is Singapore poor or rich country... no1 except PAP noes... In fact, the whole world is eager to noe how rich is Singapore... [/b]
The people rich anot i dunno
Cash is assets bro
Being rich in cash only does not mean rich in assests...
In fact to my opinion, Singapore has little future... Coz, lack of land, resources, culture and drive.. These r actually the more important assest for a nation than cash ...
Since it is not intellectually understandable, we should just wait n see wat happens in the future... Rather than being shallow... if the investment in citigrp fails like wat happen in thailand, I guess it is time for the opposition to rise... ask any accountant..... or investor....
$ makes $ u noe?
no $ no capital?....... another story lol -
Aiyah maybe Govt should just distribute all the reserves to the people, close down Temasek and GIC and all the other GLCs... then people would be happy lor.
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this view is too simplistic.Originally posted by tripwire:walao... you blind or wat?? other country use their own technology and industrial capability to send their OWN people to space.....
malaysian astronaut is nothing more then a space tourist on general public fund ticket.... where got same???
to the rest of the world.. malaysian astronaut in space... is no different from USA and USSR routine sending of monkeys, rats and pigs to space....
at least the monkeys, rats and pigs gets to go free of charge.... malaysian astronaut is excess luggage.
the malaysian monkey, as u put it, is part of the deal for malaysia to buy something(i think some military equipment) from russia. it's like i buy a rolls royce and they throw is a free trip for me to geylang lorong `whatever'. it's not as if like i spent money to go there....so, if i take the offer, it's not big deal becos no incremental expense is incurred. u cld argue the cost is build in, but regardless i pay the same price whether the offer is there or not.
plus, there are positive rub off effects. thousands of younger generation of malaysian may be inspired. the feel good factor to lift the ctry morale is there. there are some other spin off as well.....
in any case, the malaysia monkronout has nothing to do with this topic...