I am the Minister of Education
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Kinda bothers me that he needed a degree after that and land up as a manager to get good pay don't you think?Originally posted by ORIGAMIST:Don't say that. I have living proof that there are people making it good from ITE education. ITE was his stepping stone and he went on to get his degree. He is now a Manager in one of the Singapore GIC earning high pay . . . .
If i went to ITE i would be under the impression that i aspired to be a blue collar worker and earn good pay?
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Originally posted by anonymouscoward:
Sorry didn't read your post.... agree with alot of the comments above.... with narratives too
ITE is not the end. What it teaches, and for those who gets this, is that there is no free lunch and you learn to survive if you want to survive.
There has been much media to say ITE is not the end. Showing casing the many examples of people who made it but take a closer look. Those who made it are those who made it themselves - they got out and started their own company. Perhaps because they couldn't find decent employment or realize that even if they did, they wouldn't go far.
Has there been any example of ITE graduates (or even poly graduates) joining a MNC and climbing his way to management? Unfortunately, no.
Lesson learned from this episode? [b]There is no accountability in our government In any other civilize country, the principle and the minister who have resign on their own accord.
For Singapore, those million dollar scholars are always right. It's either a U-turn, a rethink, a honest mistake or it's fundamentally right. It's simply disgusting.[/b]
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I was from ite, and i graduate from normal technical stream, so i am in a position to understand what ite students are going through, and seriously, i didn't well during my psle, i wouldn't be in that situation, before you even presume or assume of what i thinkOriginally posted by turbo_drift:Dear mr Allen,
ITE is a place where you get to hands-on, not keep on studying and studying and studying.. Actually do you know that some ITE students willing to sacrifice the time and study Poly and go through the NS?
It's time-wasting i know, but then, please consider that there's a sector is being called Normal (Technical)..
However, i feel you're quite look down on ITE students (correct me if i'm wrong).
But then, some of those Normal Acad students, their results not so impressive to make it to Poly or even Uni. Sometimes the principals is right. But you can't blame those who can't even make the grade to Poly and Uni.
I think your post somehow too generalise a little. Maybe i'm too sensitive to this.
Cheers,
turbo_drift
It is a waste of time, it is not a matter of choice, it is the only thing left, again i remind those people who don't know anything at all, have a cup of shut the f u c k up -
For those kid out there, still schooling or about to graduate, i don't want to waste my time, trying to explain the importance of time, i already explain in details, why the whole ite matter is a waste of time, simply because, most of the normal technical, which included me, have no choice to move on to ite, not as if, we had a choice at all, look, you people however, graduate from sec 5 and move on to poly, even with a crappy result, still able to get into a polytechnic, how about us, we have to waste another 2 years, and pray and complete you fellow for a spot in polytechnic, it is totally unfair
and how about, now you expect sec 5 students, who are having O levels, and tell them, hey, you people are going to ITE, and then you have to spend another 3 years in poly, how old would they be, after they finish NS, before you kids, ever want to make another remark, think of the various factor involved, then, comment, or i will be wasting my time.
And i don't look down on ite students at all, my own opinion is just that, it is not fair at all for us, even how well, we do during our N level during that time, we will still be going to ITE, not as if, we have a choice to choose between O level and ITE
and cut the crap about, a ITE student working his/her way up the ladder, even 2 of my ite friend, end up doing what we didn't study for, 2 guy study in mechanical servicing, one end up doing sales, then other one, forgotten already
and I can tell you what i study, i study chemical process technology, aka POC, and end up, study accounting instead, how ironic, could it be!
All those who have a choice to choose, stop giving me the bull s h i t, when you never even study in a ITE environment before, you people having able to study in a aircon environment, and we wear uniform, study in a freaking classroom
Hey kids, refrain from commenting on this matter, because you are not contributing to the society at all, you all are just students! -
mayi and turbie, both of you are really naive,
Look at the job market out there, a diploma cert will fetch you a higher pay or a ite cert, both of you are just students, i don't want to waste my time, trying to explain to you two about, the harsh reality about the work society, when you two are still taking pocket money from your parents -
The thing is this , if there are two applicants for a Manager job, one with a degree and the other just a cert. Who get a better chance ? This is especially so in Civil service. Look at how they promote the higher educated one... you mean to tell me those without degree cannot work as good? Just that for some reason these poor fellows do not had the so call paper qualification. To be honest, when I lost my job some 12 years ago, I could get the same job back all because I do not have the basic degree. ( I was a manager when I left my previous company) .. .. this is the reality .. You had question the credibility of this " walkover" minister... my answer to you is he got a stack of papers that tell you that he is qualified and who is there to question them ?Originally posted by 798:actually even if u r a first class degree holder, there's no guarantee u will be getting a desired pay.
i see alot of uni students talk until got dragon got tiger here just becos they getting good grade, wait til they start work. -
you can easily get a degree in three years after your N levels
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its not about the cert, we are talking about, we are about choices that those Sec 5 have, don't make ite the only choices they have, ite should always be an optional choices for people to choose, and those who are in poly, is not in the position to even comment at all!Originally posted by Ferguson:you can easily get a degree in three years after your N levels -
True but then again it has to privateOriginally posted by Ferguson:you can easily get a degree in three years after your N levels Costs more? Any subsidy? Choice of courses? -
An argument between pragmatists and idealists.. To each his own bah..
But the main issue here is:
"A group of 27 girls in a Secondary 5 class in a mission school - which shall remain unnamed - were advised by their principal on the first day of school last week to seek transfers to the Institute of Technical Education (ITE), since they were unlikely to do well in the O levels this year."
To back her point, she even flashed the girls' detailed N-level grades on the board in class using an overhead projector; she also stressed that she wanted 100 per cent passes in her school.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Free/Story/STIStory_195402.html
with the Minster of State (Educatioin) endorsing the principal's action with such bullocks:
"He added that it was necessary to build that resilience in students, because when they go into the real world, they are going to have to face circumstances well beyond their control."
'There are students who need to be told that if you don't work hard, you won't make it. So you must not take away some of these tools from our educators,' he said.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Free/Story/STIStory_197038.html
They were not "advised" because ITE suits their passion but because they have the potential to pull down the grades of the school.. Delivering stern warnings / caution is one thing.. Demoralising and undermining them is another..
IMHO.. There are ministers who need to be told that if you don't work hard, you won't make it.. So don't start getting complacent over the million dollar salary..
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Another point to note in case some haven't notice.
What's the worse that could happen if the gals can't make it to Poly after getting their O level results? They can still go ITE then..
It's pretty obvious the rationale behind the principal's intention of "advising" them to seek direct transfers, instead of encouraging them to give Polytechnics a shot.
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As I've posted before.
If the minister of education is willing to vouch for that principal. I'll accept his explanations of the events.
However if there is a recurrence. I think he should be removed from his position together with the offender.
That should build up his resilience and teach him a valuable life lesson not to put his reputation on the line without first putting some thought into it. -
all i wanna say is :
TS, your ballah is bigger than mine.
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Did Khaw resign after he stake his reputation on Durai?Originally posted by phil30k:As I've posted before.
If the minister of education is willing to vouch for that principal. I'll accept his explanations of the events.
However if there is a recurrence. I think he should be removed from his position together with the offender.
That should build up his resilience and teach him a valuable life lesson not to put his reputation on the line without first putting some thought into it.
Did Wee resign after he gave his full support to his daughter's elitist remarks?
Did Lim resign after he said cost of living WILL NOT increase after GST increment?
Did anyone from iDA resign after a $388 million "honest mistake"?
Did Yeo resign after making a mistake and then making a u-turn.. oops rethink?
Did Ho Ching resign after losing billions of dollars in various "unfortunate" investments?
So.. tell me... do you think Lui will resign even if the principle walks up to one of the girls, slap her and tell her to wake up her f*** idea and not jeopardize her promotion/bonus?
DING! DING! DING!.. no prize for answering "no". -
Degree do makes a difference.Originally posted by 798:actually even if u r a first class degree holder, there's no guarantee u will be getting a desired pay.
i see alot of uni students talk until got dragon got tiger here just becos they getting good grade, wait til they start work.
My sis, on her way to 2nd upper degree, having an excellent uni CCA record, did not get through an interview.
A friend of mine, on her way to 1st class degree of CAP > 4.8 (over 5), having no CCA record at all, got through the same interview to the 2nd round.
But I understand what you mean, study well doesn't mean will work well. But supposed the work is the same, and the pay not much of a difference, the one with a better degree will usually get a higher chance for promotion.
That said, a degree is useful only if you are to become an employee. -
he is behaving like the minister of education alr... why must it be him.
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Dear anonymouscoward:
I've only started reading newspapers recently. So I was not aware. Thank you for bringing those examples to my attention.
Edited to remove quotes -
Originally posted by genie99:
Are you prepared to pay more for your plumber? Are you prepared to pay $75 to call out an electrician, another $100 for the 30mins he took to do some wiring and $30 more for the materials? Are you prepared to pay higher medical fees to employ the health attendant in the polyclinics?
Most peoples mindset are that blue collar jobs don't earn enough for a good lifestyle(not extravaganti mean good). I believe if their earning power was raised more of our youth would hesitate with their mad scramble to be a professional and actually give thought to what they [b]LIKE and enjoy doing. Why isn't this happening? ...... beats me..... and i put that responsibility on the govt.... or meybe i should not? Shed some light here pls someone id like to hear opinions on this[/b]
Then answer your own question... -
I'm in melbourne right now.... and paying more than that.... and have a better life in my opinionOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:Are you prepared to pay more for your plumber? Are you prepared to pay $75 to call out an electrician, another $100 for the 30mins he took to do some wiring and $30 more for the materials? Are you prepared to pay higher medical fees to employ the health attendant in the polyclinics?
Then answer your own question...
Peace dude.... we argue about content bro -
He looks like a dick...and people who look like dicks tend to stay true to expectations
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Aiyoh, how you calculate de...Originally posted by mhcampboy:Where got count like that....
74-75 =1 year
75-76 = 1year
76-77= 1year
total = 3 years...
Then how you explain the A levels?
Year 1974 - Sec 1
Year 1975 - Sec 2
Year 1976 - Sec 3
Year 1977 - Sec 4
So basically, from the starting of year 1974 to the end of year 1977 he was in secondary school.
Likewise for his A Levels,
Year 1978 - JC1
Year 1979 - JC2
My resume also states I was in JC from year 2005-2006 mah, you don't consider it as one year right? -
There's your answer....Originally posted by genie99:I'm in melbourne right now.... and paying more than that.... and have a better life in my opinion
Peace dude.... we argue about content bro
People in UK expect to pay 120GBP or S$360 minimum to call in a plumber to look at the leaking pipes. You pay well, there will be more people applying to be plumbers. But Singaporeans expect the maid to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for $300 a month. -
I agree with you bro.... and that's where i think the govt should step in..... meybe minimum wage laws won't work as well in sg's climate but they should bloody hell step inOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:There's your answer....
People in UK expect to pay 120GBP or S$360 minimum to call in a plumber to look at the leaking pipes. You pay well, there will be more people applying to be plumbers. But Singaporeans expect the maid to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for $300 a month. -
No government can act against the wishes of the majority....that's the basis of democracy. Singaporeans are prepared to pay 3k for an LV bag but will not pay $30 more for the school bus driver. They will be happy to spend 1k on a hairdo by David Gan but will not want to pay more than $300 for their maids or give them a day off a week. It's got to do with the public's perception of one's worth...Originally posted by genie99:I agree with you bro.... and that's where i think the govt should step in..... meybe minimum wage laws won't work as well in sg's climate but they should bloody hell step in
Should the government force patients to pay more at the polyclinics so that the nurses and health attendants can get paid better? Since locals cannot compete with foreigners on price, should we ban all foreign maids so the old aunties can get paid $30 an hour to clean your flat or mind your children? Should they send back all our Chinese and Filipino nurses and charge our patients $12 consultation fees at the polyclinics instead of $8?
It's not so easy, you see. You have to convince Singaporeans first.. -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
I'll agree with you again..... its really up to SGs
No government can act against the wishes of the majority....that's the basis of democracy. Singaporeans are prepared to pay 3k for an LV bag but will not pay $30 more for the school bus driver. They will be happy to spend 1k on a hairdo by David Gan but will not want to pay more than $300 for their maids or give them a day off a week. It's got to do with the public's perception of one's worth...
Should the government force patients to pay more at the polyclinics so that the nurses and health attendants can get paid better? Since locals cannot compete with foreigners on price, should we ban all foreign maids so the old aunties can get paid $30 an hour to clean your flat or mind your children? Should they send back all our Chinese and Filipino nurses and charge our patients $12 consultation fees at the polyclinics instead of $8?
[b]It's not so easy, you see. You have to convince Singaporeans first..[/b]
Ok lets do a poll.......
a) Tax the higher earning income brackets abit more to allow a minimum wage system
or
b) current state of things yer in