No MPs ask Min Khaw to show why taxes can't cover med costs
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The CNA covers Minister Khaw extensively to allow him to tell all citizens why Class "C" wards which are so-called heavily subsidized should not be abused by the rich or the middle class.
All the newspapers are giving full coverage so Minister Khaw will achieve great success in his means test.
This is the power of the media. People's problems as posted in the above-stated posts are conveniently ignored.
By means of the devious means test, government again will be taxing more monies from the citizens to cover for medical cares which were originally financed by taxes.
Before asking people to finance their medical expenses from their own CPF savings he should have shown to citizens the amount of tax allocated currently for such services and why tax allocation is running short and what steps he would take to increase efficiency and reduce costs.
CNA and all the newspapers did not bother him at all with the key issue here - what will happen to all the taxes paid and will the taxes be kept and locked away as surpluses again to pay ministers higher salaries bonuses and life pensions or be invested in some foreign banks of which our ministers are advisors going under due to the sub-prime crisis. -
and the increase in GST is supposed to help the poor...
there is still a means test and the poor still have to pay, there is always a part 2 in any ministers' speeches
"and we don't deny anybody of health care [*missing - only if you pay..] crap
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Part 2 - manpower costs have gone up due pay increases and inflations beyond control so Class "C" can no longer be subsidized or subsidized that much.Originally posted by dragon_stone:and the increase in GST is supposed to help the poor...
there is still a means test and the poor still have to pay, there is always a part 2 in any ministers' speeches
"and we don't deny anybody of health care [*missing - only if you pay..] crap -
oh yes, so coincident...when they start comparing statisticsOriginally posted by robertteh:Part 2 - manpower costs have gone up due pay increases and inflations beyond control so Class "C" can no longer be subsidized or subsidized that much.
europe salary increase average 7.3%
sg salary increase average 5%
inflation calculated at 6.5%
wonder what the MANPOWER very soon pay increase will be
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Can someone tell me the original subsidy rate?
If it was 80%, then he need to explain where will the extra 15% go to if those with more means to pay get less subsidy. -
NWC wage increment is not widely followed by companies in the private sector.Originally posted by dragon_stone:oh yes, so coincident...when they start comparing statistics
europe salary increase average 7.3%
sg salary increase average 5%
inflation calculated at 6.5%
wonder what the MANPOWER very soon pay increase will be
Go and do a survey and it will be found only a small no. of private sector companies are giving their employees wage increases and even then not by the same percentages as recommended by NWC.
Whenever the Ministers announced NWC wage increases every year they would always make it sound that NWC recommendation will apply to all.
Take the NWC recommended 7% increment this year (200
let us conduct a survey how many percents of companies in the private sector are paying this kind of increases.
As Ngiam Tong Dow has pointed out, NWC has only been misused by the government as a tool to reward their own numbers - pushing up public sector wages 2-3 times of private sector yet claiming always not enough.
So NWC was in fact being made as a instrument to spend away as much monies of taxpayers as possible for rewarding their own numbers while making it look like NWC is giving fair wage increases for all workers.
So our ministers are clearly not telling the truth when they claim our workers are getting 7% wage increases in line with the economic performance.
Many employees in the private sector are only at the most getting token wage increases not anything close to the 7-14% given to public sector employees due to power play. In certain cases the private sector employees are not even getting any 13th month wage supplement while public sector employees are getting three months plus. -
I think we should give them some slack.
they must have tried their best to serve you.
think of their sacrifices.
for salary, they sacrifice to serve you when then can also get higher pay outside if they want.
so selfless.
like the salary hike,
they great super great until cannot great majority did not veto the idea to hike the salary. why ? use your blain lor. for me, I would say they thinked so many many and derived the conclude that that is hardpill to swallow and they did.
serve you. -
No matter how good is means testing, it cannot solve people's ageing and high-medical-cost problems until and unless the government answer the question first - how much of taxes paid by people, including profits from land sales and surplus funds incomes will be fairly allocated to pay for people's basic medical cares.
So to many people who keep responding only to Minister Khaw's means test, please do not forget this most important question.
Minister must have the true talents not to increase people's burden or take away their CPF savings through clever schemes like means test, he must ensure like what ex-president Ong Teng Cheong would have done, spend the taxes wisely and cost-effectively to benefit all. -
Taxes to cover medical costs? Sure...get the other 60% of Singaporeans who currently do not pay any income tax to pay. Impose a 40% flat rate of income tax to every working Singaporean and there will be enough to cover medical costs.
If the losers who rant about the government start paying income tax for once, that will work. Use taxes to cover medical costs. What a daft idea when 60% of working Singaporeans do not pay any income tax -
Do not avoid the real issue here - do not again try all sorts of fear tactics of selective comparison with worse scenarios to increase taxes or pass on more cost burdens to the people.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Taxes to cover medical costs? Sure...get the other 60% of Singaporeans who currently do not pay any income tax to pay. Impose a 40% flat rate of income tax to every working Singaporean and there will be enough to cover medical costs.
If the losers who rant about the government start paying income tax for once, that will work. Use taxes to cover medical costs. What a daft idea when 60% of working Singaporeans do not pay any income tax
People in asking this question is not expecting welfarism or free lunch.
What people are asking and entitled to ask of the Minister Khaw is the most valid question : how much of the existing taxes collected to provide basic services like medical cares to people are now used and why is it not enough?
He can tell us how many millions out of the S$6.0 billions current revenues from taxes and capital gains and surplus-generated incomes are allocated to provide such basic medical needs of the people.
If he does not do so and tries to use clever means test scheme to use people's CPF to pay for medical costs which should have been allocated from the original tax revenues then he is not using his talent for the benefit of the people.
So he should tell us the truth whether such a means test scheme is being used eventually to keep the tax medical allocation locked up to form surpluses which allow government to throw them into rescue funds to save foreign banks or pay their own self-rewards.
The monies originally collected for basic medical service surely cannot just disappear ? Do any one of our ministers want to practise what Durai has done and hoard public monies for their own unexplained purposes.
Please be more objective and do not hide problems. Be broadminded about criticism and improve services to the people.
Put the people's taxes to good use first before talking about means test which is presently not a major problem at all.
Only when our minister has this type of broad-minded pro-people morality will he convince people to accept any further solutions in being fair in the nitty-gritty of who is entitled to Class "C" subsidy. -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Pay NO taxes at all? Your rules? hmm... what about the increased GST (must be Gahmen Silent Tax)
Taxes to cover medical costs? Sure...get the other 60% of Singaporeans who currently do not pay any income tax to pay. Impose a 40% flat rate of income tax to every working Singaporean and there will be enough to cover medical costs.
If the losers who rant about the government start paying income tax for once, that will work. Use taxes to cover medical costs. What a daft idea when 60% of working Singaporeans do not pay any income tax 
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You have dyslexia? 60% do not pay income tax..they pay GST at the same rate as the 40% who have to pay both. If Singaporeans want more tax revenue to pay for healthcare they must make more people pay income tax.Originally posted by Doubletalk:Pay NO taxes at all? Your rules? hmm... what about the increased GST (must be Gahmen Silent Tax) -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Do you have piles? And you claimed 60% DON'T pay any income tax? Direct and indirect taxes, are they not taxes? So the 40% pay both and you want the rest to do so, thus advocating a welfare system?
You have dyslexia? 60% do not pay income tax..they pay GST at the same rate as the 40% who have to pay both. If Singaporeans want more tax revenue to pay for healthcare they must make more people pay income tax
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Originally posted by Doubletalk:
We are often told by our ministers that only 60% of the citizens pay personal income tax and 40% do not pay any tax apart from GST.
Do you have piles? And you claimed 60% DON'T pay [b]any income tax? Direct and indirect taxes, are they not taxes? So the 40% pay both and you want the rest to do so, thus advocating a welfare system? [/b]
How true is this kind of statement? Are the ministers telling the truths?
As usual, the government will not consider that it is charging citizens many other taxes and levies. For examples lands required for public use and low cost housing were acquired at cheap prices of as low as $0.10 per sq ft for many years and paid for by the people with their taxes.
Yet HDB although provided with such zero-cost land profits is charging land costs for 3/4 room flats at full market price making about S$100,000.00 from the lands paid for by citizens. If this kind of charge or levy is not a tax, what is a tax.
Vehicle excise duty, COE and ERP and HDB resale levy and all profits made by GLCs are also taxes just like GST and personal income tax.
So it appears that that the government ministers have been telling lies to the people when it claims that 60% of the citizens are not paying taxes. If these HDB land taxes and LTA vehicle levies are not taxes then what are taxes.
Just work out the total land profits and vehicle levies taxed by the people, all will have some ideas how much taxes the government are collecting which is beyond belief.
Taking into account all the charges and levies collected by the government, Singaporeans are paying the highest taxes in the world and yet they have an uncaring government who keep trying to charge for every service it is supposed to provide from such taxes collected. -
Originally posted by Doubletalk:
Seems that you have bigger problems than just dyslexia...failed your PSLE English Comprehension did you? Yes, 60% do not pay any income tax and yes, they pay GST like the 40% of income tax payers who pay both GST and income tax. Go back to school, kiddie
Do you have piles? And you claimed 60% DON'T pay [b]any income tax? Direct and indirect taxes, are they not taxes? So the 40% pay both and you want the rest to do so, thus advocating a welfare system? [/b] -
The figures are out there in the public accounts and all opposition parties can send send their accountants to examine the figures. On the other hand, can you back up your allegations with solid facts and figures? Talk is cheap. If you dispute the government's figures, challenge them in public..Originally posted by robertteh:We are often told by our ministers that only 60% of the citizens pay personal income tax and 40% do not pay any tax apart from GST.
How true is this kind of statement? Are the ministers telling the truths? -
On the issue of how many people pay Income Tax, the information is all public.
Go to the taxman's website at www.iras.gov.sg and look up the appendices of their annual reports.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/ESVPortal/resources/appendices.pdf
I believe appendix 5 is the report that addresses this point.
In the Annual Report 2006/07, total number of resident taxpayers was 745,071. -
I think Mr. Khaw did the right thing to open a dialogue.
I think failing to address the issues raised in the dialogue would be a mistake. -
Dear Robert,
I think the tax law provides for deductions. For example if you earn very little, it is foreseeable that your NS deductions may result in no taxes having to be paid at all. -
The NS men may not fall within the 40% high-income earners who pay personal income tax. But many people outside this group of high-income earners pay indirect taxes or levies to the government too.Originally posted by phil30k:Dear Robert,
I think the tax law provides for deductions. For example if you earn very little, it is foreseeable that your NS deductions may result in no taxes having to be paid at all.
For example, assuming this NS man earns less he would still pay indirect taxes not just the GST but the land charge for the HDB of about S$100K if he buys a 3- or 4-room flat.
The NS man may not earn high income but the moment he drives he will pay vehicle excise duty, COE and ERP as well as road tax and petrol tax.
Over a life time, he would pay about S$500-$800K taxations for flats and vehicle ownership.
Just figure out whether it is true only 40% of citizens are paying taxes if we include all the citizens who own HDB flats and vehicles. -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Well, you do have piles, quoting you tis the best comprehensive exercise of showing up your apparent snakiness, BTW, I flunked my PSLE real time and with dyslexia so conveniently insinuated by your qualifications you doeth stand smarter, erh? Good for you!!!
Seems that you have bigger problems than just dyslexia...failed your PSLE English Comprehension did you? Yes, 60% do not pay any income tax and yes, they pay GST like the 40% of income tax payers who pay both GST and income tax. Go back to school, kiddie -
Originally posted by onlooker123:
Note: Total No. of People Paying Income Tax
On the issue of how many people pay Income Tax, the information is all public.
Go to the taxman's website at www.iras.gov.sg and look up the appendices of their annual reports.
http://www.iras.gov.sg/ESVPortal/resources/appendices.pdf
I believe appendix 5 is the report that addresses this point.
In the Annual Report 2006/07, total number of resident taxpayers was 745,071. -
is it ???Originally posted by robertteh:The CNA covers Minister Khaw extensively to allow him to tell all citizens why Class "C" wards which are so-called heavily subsidized should not be abused by the rich or the middle class.
All the newspapers are giving full coverage so Minister Khaw will achieve great success in his means test.
This is the power of the media. People's problems as posted in the above-stated posts are conveniently ignored.
By means of the devious means test, government again will be taxing more monies from the citizens to cover for medical cares which were originally financed by taxes.
Before asking people to finance their medical expenses from their own CPF savings he should have shown to citizens the amount of tax allocated currently for such services and why tax allocation is running short and what steps he would take to increase efficiency and reduce costs.
CNA and all the newspapers did not bother him at all with the key issue here - what will happen to all the taxes paid and will the taxes be kept and locked away as surpluses again to pay ministers higher salaries bonuses and life pensions or be invested in some foreign banks of which our ministers are advisors going under due to the sub-prime crisis.
cannot de be wan leh wat de meh?
I think at least a few out of the 80 odd membre if porlimon voiced concern about the pay hike right? no meh ? there you go, the reps of the peeper.
you derserve it.
you ausked for it.
these peeper are one of them.
REN ZI CU, XING BEN SHAN?
Money if its not everything in life, what is? I ask becos i no no. This is not a statement. It is a question and a doubt. Life examples prove what is humanity. in times of crisis, who will fight? I think all lah, to sound fair. But then I was asking.
congratulations. -
So we are talking about all forms of taxation or just income tax?
Of course everybody pays taxes lah.
Just that most people don't pay income tax.
Everybody pays GST what. -
So...I dont understand one thing...means testing is bad...? So medical subsidy should be given to everyone regardless of their financial abilities..? Because there are surplus and taxes which can cover them anyway...? So, you are saying, as long as there are surplus and taxes, the state should give subsidies and spend them all, dont bother to make them more efficient and targetted..?
Do you know this is what you are practically saying...?
Meat Pao.