Chee SJ not wrong in asking ex-PM GCT "Where is our monies?
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Chee Soon Juan was not wrong during one election in confronting ex-PM Goh Chok Tong with the question: "Where is our monies?" CSJ was simply asking for accountability from our ex-PM for using of citizens' monies in propping up Suharto's own financial crisis.
The media and weak people considered his action as rude behavior and condemned him for this incident.
Now we the citizens have to live with the consequence of siding with a government who spent our surpluses and taxes without accountability like happening in Citibank and Merryl Lynch where our ministers even became their advisors working against our own interests.
We reap what we sow. -
actually, the two recent investments you cited can also be looked on as a once in a lifetime opportunity.Originally posted by robertteh:Chee Soon Juan was not wrong during one election in confronting ex-PM Goh Chok Tong with the question: "Where is our monies?" CSJ was simply asking for accountability from our ex-PM for using of citizens' monies in propping up Suharto's own financial crisis.
The media and weak people considered his action as rude behavior and condemned him for this incident.
Now we the citizens have to live with the consequence of siding with a government who spent our surpluses and taxes without accountability like happening in Citibank and Merryl Lynch where our ministers even became their advisors working against our own interests.
We reap what we sow. -
Without being accountability a government it may lead to abuse and malpractices and bankruptcy.Originally posted by deathbait:actually, the two recent investments you cited can also be looked on as a once in a lifetime opportunity.
What is so difficult to set up procedural control to ensure that there will be no conflict of interest, abuse, malpractice or insider trading or kick-backs in such investments. -
pay them well and they won't
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My point of view on this is that if the reason why the Government can't show how the money has been invested is because they haven't been tracking it closely enough, then it points to a fundamental flaw in how the department is run.
I also think it is not unexpected if any investment company that can't account to shareholders is treated with suspicion.
I'm glad that it was brought to their attention and that they are attempting to correct this. -
I wonder when will people understand that no money was lent to Indonesia during the Asian Financial crisis, much less Suharto himself.
How's Chee and his Myanmar efforts going on these days ? Everything rosy in Myanmar ? The money he solicited put into good use with them ? -
Why? it's not just the what or where, it's the manner in which both parties handle... attacking the impressions and not managing the issues...
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i dun think it is a valid excuse or reason. they r not handling peanut monies for starter. they have a battalion of highly rated ppl at temasek to manage these funds.Originally posted by phil30k:My point of view on this is that if the reason why the Government can't show how the money has been invested is because they haven't been tracking it closely enough, then it points to a fundamental flaw in how the department is run.
I also think it is not unexpected if any investment company that can't account to shareholders is treated with suspicion.
I'm glad that it was brought to their attention and that they are attempting to correct this.
when they gloat abt clinching a relatively `safe' deal in buying into citibank in a short span of 8 days, i am not sure if tt's singapore's efficiency or singapore foolhardiness.
the new sports hub will be another contentious point, esp in the manner the govt tender this out. it's a costly proposition. the world sports calender is already packed as it is. will they be a 5th tennis grandslam. not in our lifetime. world class track & field event? sorry, the season is already busy as it is and it's far more lucrative to compete in the european circuit. this build and they will come mentality is risky. the success of this is precarious. the monies tt is gambled on this hasn't got the odds on sinkapore's side.
finally, sinkapore's pre-occupation on becoming a hub in everything it does is unrealistic. talk about anything and the MIW's buzzword is singapore can be a hub for this, and hub for that. expansive and expensive resources are spent to chase this hub dream. -
Chee Soon Juan is correct to ask questions on government decisions and policy.
This is what a democractic style of government is all about.
I support you Dr Chee. -
Agree with the above.... but seriously i think Mr Chee's tone in questioning can be improved lar....Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:Chee Soon Juan is correct to ask questions on government decisions and policy.
This is what a democractic style of government is all about.
I support you Dr Chee.
"Oei Ah Goh where you take the $$$$!!! Our people $ u noe.... Give me back!! Give me back!!!! *waving kitchen knife and arms legs tongue wildy"
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Only anti-PAP or anti-Govenrment will stay in this forum.. especially the similar thread..Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:Chee Soon Juan is correct to ask questions on government decisions and policy.
This is what a democractic style of government is all about.
I support you Dr Chee.
we need to tap on the channels of those that are ignorant .. -
Its funny how "ignorant" he was of the supposed loan and how ignorant some people today are for not knowing that the loan was never made.Originally posted by happieman:Only anti-PAP or anti-Govenrment will stay in this forum.. especially the similar thread..
we need to tap on the channels of those that are ignorant .. -
no1 say chee is wrong wat...
it is just tat he created an image for him n his party himself...
And apparently, the "weak" tat TS described are all the majority of Sembawang GRC for the previous elections...
Well... guess TS is one of the strong one in those 20% -> the elites of the elites -
Yes agree they were ignorant....... but its becos of the "ignorant" people that we are sure the loan was "not" made....... we still need "ignorant" ppl to ask questions....a shadow cabinet.... that ensures a govt for the people no?Originally posted by kramnave:Its funny how "ignorant" he was of the supposed loan and how ignorant some people today are for not knowing that the loan was never made. -
Originally posted by genie99:
Then let the educated "ignorant" ask questions rather than hurl accusations.
Yes agree they were ignorant....... but its becos of the "ignorant" people that we are sure the loan was "[b]not" made....... we still need "ignorant" ppl to ask questions....a shadow cabinet.... that ensures a govt for the people no?[/b] -
1.Ask US citizens how come the great country so heave indebted??Originally posted by robertteh:Without being accountability a government it may lead to abuse and malpractices and bankruptcy.
What is so difficult to set up procedural control to ensure that there will be no conflict of interest, abuse, malpractice or insider trading or kick-backs in such investments.
It is no use u describe US govt as free democratic ...etc
The US $$ is falling like a rock for 40 Years..
Left 10% purchasing value in 55 yrs>>
Why ?u under pay US Presidents and so many officials!!
peanuts can feed monkeys only.
u need banana to feed elephants to work for u.
great sources of US info -
Thank you for allowing me to clarify.Originally posted by weiqimun:i dun think it is a valid excuse or reason. they r not handling peanut monies for starter. they have a battalion of highly rated ppl at temasek to manage these funds.
I'm not excusing or giving the Government a reason, I don't know if there is one.
I'm not an economist or polictician but I'll share what little I know. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
At lower levels, you invest in blue chip.
At higher levels you have diversified portfolios.
At domestic levels you build subsidized housing, build transport systems and finance or grant loans to the building of infrastructures.
At foreign levels you may invest in neighbors so they develop faster and become allies. You can prop up neighbouring economies. You can loan them money.
Some of these transactions are easily quantified. Some of these returns cannot be quantified easily (as with HDB where government can set prices effectively changing the value of existing stock). Some may have intangible benefits. Some of these transactions may be kept secret for security reasons.
I hope the Government can find some way of satisfactorily reassuring citizens that the reserves have been put to good use. -
Originally posted by Lin Yu:pay them well and they won't
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The more important issue of the day is whether our ministers being paid millions of salaries are doing their jobs.
They are simply ordinary mortals who were lucky enough (like touching a lottery as GCT once put it in referring shop tenants given the right to buy over their tenanted shops at market price) to be given the opportunity to serve. So in this perspective our ministers should be humble and be willing to serve and be subjected to queries for mistakes in policies or actions.
CSJ is not being paid a single cent to do his job as an aspiring politicians participating in our particular nation building whereas our ministers are paid millions and many extra bonuses and life pensions.
So who should be made more answerable to the people and should be subjected to people's scrutiny. Is he CSJ or Jeyaratnam who should be criticized for their behavior or mannerism?
Do our people realize the plain truth who is answerable for problems and who should reply to criticisms with facts and rationale and take corrective actions?
Instead when people see government ministers using their power to bully CSJ or JBJ or Francis Seow or Tang Liang Hong what do they do?
There seems to be something wrong with the people if they only know how to condemn the critics for the slightest fault with mannerism or whatever. I think may be having a rather sick society that is all.
We reap what we sow. If our quality as a people do not improve we do not deserve a good government now or in the future.
No wonder our people's retirement or CPF drawdown age is continuously postponed without much avail because they have been taken for granted by such a government who has been encouraged by their own conduct to do wrong to serve only their own ends. -
How do you know CSJ is not being paid? He station day and night to protest, go to jail for weeks then come out to protest again. He has a family to feed........ what does he survive on? Only after goldenperiod brought this to attention in sammyboy that now he stops..... 'cause we know SDP members read sammyboy.
CSJ IS paid......... the question is...... who? -
We don't know whether ministers in addition to writing their own pay cheques by the millions are also receiving director fees or some other rewards like advisor fees for being advisor to international banks currently being bailed out by GIC or Temasek using our citizens monies to do so.Originally posted by hawkeye1819:How do you know CSJ is not being paid? He station day and night to protest, go to jail for weeks then come out to protest again. He has a family to feed........ what does he survive on? Only after goldenperiod brought this to attention in sammyboy that now he stops..... 'cause we know SDP members read sammyboy.
CSJ IS paid......... the question is...... who?
For CSJ we are quite sure he does not receive any salaries from the government for playing his role in checking on wrongfulness of government unlike the regular MPs or the ministers who receive such fees for not doing any such duties. As for the frequent claims that he is receiving payments from some sources for doing what he is doing I feel quite sure that he did not receive same director or advisor fees as director or advisor fees from banks being bailed out or having dealing with the government. -
Whenever the PAP government make an investment overseas,they always cited the investment as if it is "a once in a lifetime opportunity.Originally posted by deathbait:actually, the two recent investments you cited can also be looked on as a once in a lifetime opportunity.
When they invest in Thailand Thangsin and Indonesia telecom,they also thought that it was a once in a lifetime opportunity,but look what happen in the end?
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Goh Chok Tong is just a tail-shaking watch dog of the Lee family,simple as that.
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I think the meaning is that he's not receiving any salaries from THIS government...Originally posted by robertteh:We don't know whether ministers in addition to writing their own pay cheques by the millions are also receiving director fees or some other rewards like advisor fees for being advisor to international banks currently being bailed out by GIC or Temasek using our citizens monies to do so.
For CSJ we are quite sure he does not receive any salaries from the government for playing his role in checking on wrongfulness of government unlike the regular MPs or the ministers who receive such fees for not doing any such duties. As for the frequent claims that he is receiving payments from some sources for doing what he is doing I feel quite sure that he did not receive same director or advisor fees as director or advisor fees from banks being bailed out or having dealing with the government.
http://www.mha.gov.sg/news_details.aspx?nid=219
I'm not a big fan of PAP and their heavy handedness but I'm not a big fan of foreign directed "regime change" as well... -
No sign yet of any bogey foreign power trying to use our opposition politicians to play as 5th column to subjugate our sovereignty. One would have thought that with the talents that they claim to possess our government should have discovered any such fifth columnists by now with evidence or our army and intelligence would have got hold of full evidence of such secret agents.Originally posted by CX:I think the meaning is that he's not receiving any salaries from THIS government...
http://www.mha.gov.sg/news_details.aspx?nid=219
I'm not a big fan of PAP and their heavy handedness but I'm not a big fan of foreign directed "regime change" as well...
Let they do their jobs professionally.
As people, we have a duty to speak up as one to scrutinise any government who tries to abuse power and govern with hypocrisy and doing what it likes to serve its own interest.