What do u mean "no sign yet" ?Originally posted by robertteh:No sign yet of any bogey foreign power trying to use our opposition politicians to play as 5th column to subjugate our sovereignty. One would have thought that with the talents that they claim to possess our government should have discovered any such fifth columnists by now with evidence or our army and intelligence would have got hold of full evidence of such secret agents.
Let they do their jobs professionally.
As people, we have a duty to speak up as one to scrutinise any government who tries to abuse power and govern with hypocrisy and doing what it likes to serve its own interest.
I am not CSJ party member or his supporter. I am not treating him as a patriot but am trying to be fair and objective.Originally posted by CX:What do u mean "no sign yet" ?
There were signs. Thats why he's not trusted, not entertained and not tolerated by the PAP.
U consider using foreign funding to organise local political activities to be a transparent, aboveboard and democratic activity?
As much as I am not blind to the weaknesses and heavy handedness of this government, I am also not blind to some of the questionable practices of Dr Chee Soon Juan.
U are right that as citizens, we have a duty to question the government, to better understand the situation faced by the country and to receive some fair answers.
But like you said: It is the PEOPLE's responsibility. Not just the responsibility of the "one-man-army" Chee Soon Juan.
I find it a bit unfair of u to perceive the govt to be the worst of the worst while at the same time thinking that CSJ represents patriotism, altruism and is the embodiment of a responsible political activist.
I think they're all crooks to various extents and it is the responsibility of ALL Singaporeans to check ALL such figures.
The problem is apathy, not PAP.
I am also not blind to some of the questionable practices of Dr Chee Soon Juan.Like what?
Like taking money from foreign sources to plan political activities in SG.Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:Like what?
With due respect and no reference to the topic, there is also no sign of many things said by forumers that have happened but became internet urban legends.Originally posted by robertteh:No sign yet of any bogey foreign power trying to use our opposition politicians to play as 5th column to subjugate our sovereignty. One would have thought that with the talents that they claim to possess our government should have discovered any such fifth columnists by now with evidence or our army and intelligence would have got hold of full evidence of such secret agents.
Let they do their jobs professionally.
As people, we have a duty to speak up as one to scrutinise any government who tries to abuse power and govern with hypocrisy and doing what it likes to serve its own interest.
Melvin,Originally posted by Melvin Tan:With due respect and no reference to the topic, there is also no sign of many things said by forumers that have happened but became internet urban legends.
One such is CPF money. My parents, parents-in-law and relatives within 5-years range in age and withdrew their CPF monies without a cent missing. However, the "empty coffers" theory is a favourite jibe, if you'd recall. Some even asked that opposition MPs to take it up.
It is fine to ask for more transparency but when it is reflected in the Budget and you counter that it is not there, it is a different matter.
There are a lot of urban legends against not only the PAP government, but opposition parties - yes, even SDP too. It could be because there are people who wish to affirm the entity they support or disdain.
Regards
It is indeed fortunate for that generation - which your parents, parents-in-law and relatives belong to - to be able to pick-up their CPF.Originally posted by Melvin Tan:With due respect and no reference to the topic, there is also no sign of many things said by forumers that have happened but became internet urban legends.
One such is CPF money. My parents, parents-in-law and relatives within 5-years range in age and withdrew their CPF monies without a cent missing. However, the "empty coffers" theory is a favourite jibe, if you'd recall. Some even asked that opposition MPs to take it up.
It is fine to ask for more transparency but when it is reflected in the Budget and you counter that it is not there, it is a different matter.
There are a lot of urban legends against not only the PAP government, but opposition parties - yes, even SDP too. It could be because there are people who wish to affirm the entity they support or disdain.
Regards
I applaud your argument ....60 billion ...Originally posted by Atobe:It is indeed fortunate for that generation - which your parents, parents-in-law and relatives belong to - to be able to pick-up their CPF.
Apply the following not unrealistic sum on to an Excel spread sheet, and you figure if there is any cause for this Government to continuously tinker with the CPF withdrawal rules that will arbitrarily prevent Singaporeans from taking out the full sum of their CPF Savings for various reasons:
Monthly CPF Contribution : $200
x 12 months per year
x 25 years of working life
x Working Population of 1,000,000
Keeping the matter simple, the above total has not included the compounded annual interest.
Tell us if there is enough in the Singapore Reserves for the government to pay for this hypothetical small workforce of 1,000,000 Singaporeans saving for a period of 25 years - based on what we can only assume the Reserves can be.
Is there any reason for this government to ''frantically'' make the available money grow - by ''investing'' in properties, real estates, banks, big and small 'profitable' commercial enterprises across the globe ?
Your view is CSJ was rude and because he was rude no matter how right he was on the issue of use of people's monies to rescue foreign sovereign like Suharto, you are prepared to condemn him.Originally posted by :CSJ certainly was not wrong to question our ex-PM where our money had gone to. But it was the manner in which CSJ had done so which landed him in trouble with the law (defamation).
Had CSJ arranged a formal and proper forum to challenge our ex-PM and yet still get into trouble, I would have supported TS and his hero, CSJ..... But was this done? No.
TS damn bloody bo liao leh!![]()
![]()
Time and again, he simply refuses to understand this and continues to insist that CSJ was penalised fot being rude la, uncouth la, blah blah.......
Well, I guess TS is exercising his freedom to continue making himself look stoo-pid. So cheers!![]()
I agree with you 100% plus guaranteeOriginally posted by :CSJ certainly was not wrong to question our ex-PM where our money had gone to. But it was the manner in which CSJ had done so which landed him in trouble with the law (defamation).
Want to know more? Click and go read ..... Anyways Im voting for your PAP so don't flame me.... see if i care anymore
Mr. Chee is not terribly concerned about election results.
It would be foolish, he suggests, for an opposition party in Singapore to pin its hopes on gaining one, or perhaps two, seats in parliament. He is aiming for a much bigger goal: bringing down the city-stateÂ’s one-party system of government. His weapon is a campaign of civil disobedience against laws designed to curtail democratic freedoms.
“You don’t vote out a dictatorship,” he says. “And basically that’s what Singapore is, albeit a very sophisticated one. It’s not possible for us to effect change just through the ballot box. They’ve got control of everything else around us.” Instead what’s needed is a coalition of civil society and political society coming together and demanding change—a color revolution for Singapore.
The need for transparency and accountability also means that Singapore will have to change. That is the source of Mr. Chee’s optimism in the face of all his setbacks: “I realize that Singapore is not at that level yet. But we’ve got to start somewhere. And I’m prepared to see this out, in the sense that in the next five, 10, 15 years, time is on our side. We need to continue to organize and educate and encourage. And it will come.”
Originally posted by lionnoisy:Selective reading?
1.Ask US citizens how come the great country so heave indebted??
It is no use u describe US govt as free democratic ...etc
The US $$ is falling like a rock for 40 Years..
Left 10% purchasing value in 55 yrs>>
Why ?u under pay US Presidents and so many officials!!
peanuts can feed monkeys only.
u need banana to feed elephants to work for u.
great sources of US info
Dear Robert,Originally posted by robertteh:Melvin,
I can say your mild assignation of other causes to be looked at may precisely be due to years of indoctrination by government propaganda against credible oppositions by its controlled media which employed top government people to its editorial board and political writers to do such indoctrination.
The constant propaganda being churned out against Dr. Chee could be the result of deliberate discrediting of opposition e.g. playing up on the rudeness of Dr. Chee and his likely financing by some foreign powers is totally out of proportion to the real issue Dr. Chee was fighting for i.e. need for accountability and transparency in the way monies in our citizens' reserves are being lightly used to serve ruling government's own political objectives and agendas.
If our citizens do not have this ability to see through such media propaganda sad to say there will be no change and we will continue to have a government which will continue to behave arrogantly spewing propagandas against potential good leaders.
Thank you for that post and the efforts to put up a credible piece. I will address it later but firstly, my post was a response to Robert who did not feel that anyone could judge opposition leaders without proof.Originally posted by Atobe:It is indeed fortunate for that generation - which your parents, parents-in-law and relatives belong to - to be able to pick-up their CPF.
Apply the following not unrealistic sum on to an Excel spread sheet, and you figure if there is any cause for this Government to continuously tinker with the CPF withdrawal rules that will arbitrarily prevent Singaporeans from taking out the full sum of their CPF Savings for various reasons:
Monthly CPF Contribution : $200
x 12 months per year
x 25 years of working life
x Working Population of 1,000,000
Keeping the matter simple, the above total has not included the compounded annual interest.
Tell us if there is enough in the Singapore Reserves for the government to pay for this hypothetical small workforce of 1,000,000 Singaporeans saving for a period of 25 years - based on what we can only assume the Reserves can be.
Is there any reason for this government to ''frantically'' make the available money grow - by ''investing'' in properties, real estates, banks, big and small 'profitable' commercial enterprises across the globe ?
Originally posted by Melvin Tan:Your tabulation makes sense - however, I believe there is an omission, among other points. Most CPF money of Singaporeans have gone to their flats and they will not be getting their full sum back, or rather, got in back in what they are living in presently.
Herein lies another problem - 200 x 12 x 25 = $60,000. A flat costs at least $200,000.
An awesome idea I must say .... we pay all our CPF towards the 99 year lease...... so in effect we are paying rent to the governmentOriginally posted by Genie99But then again i'm sure alot of SG out there are buying 99 year leases that expend their lifetime of CPF so the govt is getting some $ back.
Originally posted by genie99:You don't earn money from paying rent for a roof over your head.
An awesome idea I must say .... we pay all our CPF towards the 99 year lease...... so in effect we are paying rent to the government
What does it add up to again ..... 60 billion?
Whats your take on this Melvin?
*and i'm not flaming nor saying yer with/against the idea.... just your pt of view
[/b]
Originally posted by genie99:In a large way, I agree with you.
An awesome idea I must say .... we pay all our CPF towards the 99 year lease...... so in effect we are paying rent to the government
What does it add up to again ..... 60 billion?
Whats your take on this Melvin?
*and i'm not flaming nor saying yer with/against the idea.... just your pt of view
[/b]
I would really like the Government to clarify the amount of all the monies put to secret projects and security information network.Originally posted by phil30k:Thank you for allowing me to clarify.
I'm not excusing or giving the Government a reason, I don't know if there is one.
I'm not an economist or polictician but I'll share what little I know. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
At lower levels, you invest in blue chip.
At higher levels you have diversified portfolios.
At domestic levels you build subsidized housing, build transport systems and finance or grant loans to the building of infrastructures.
At foreign levels you may invest in neighbors so they develop faster and become allies. You can prop up neighbouring economies. You can loan them money.
Some of these transactions are easily quantified. Some of these returns cannot be quantified easily (as with HDB where government can set prices effectively changing the value of existing stock). Some may have intangible benefits. Some of these transactions may be kept secret for security reasons.
I hope the Government can find some way of satisfactorily reassuring citizens that the reserves have been put to good use.
I would say at this point of our evolution as a little red dot, we should ask ourselves this question: Having come so far after 40 plus years of top-down autocracy, tight-fisted control of personal and political freedoms for the sake of nation building, are we on the right track.Originally posted by Melvin Tan:Dear Robert,
I believe I stated an example that derived from a real-life experience and gave nothing off on what was read in the local press.
In addition, there was nowhere that I mentioned Dr Chee and I did express that I shall not and refrained from laying judgement of anyone in public.
Finally, I have seen people who disavow the local press use it when the reports favour them.
Regards