Chee SJ not wrong in asking ex-PM GCT "Where is our monies?
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Kramnave mused...
"When government lose money, they are losing taxpayers money. When they earn money, they are profiteering at the citizens expense. Sometimes its just difficult to satisfy everybody."
Well Kram, in my opinion, that's because in Singapore we do not have welfare system like in the West. What the ordinary citizens see are the fat cats at the top lining their pockets with multi-million salaries while telling us to make necessary financial sacrifices. The profits do not trickle down to the average Joes in the streets. Can't blame us for not being satisfied.
Crew -
Well, we have yet to establish that as an opportunity, dont forget that the interest from the bonds are paid in USD and not SGD. And the USD is set to tank even further given the generous rate cuts by the FED.Originally posted by deathbait:actually, the two recent investments you cited can also be looked on as a once in a lifetime opportunity. -
Have you ever looked into the welfare or old aged pension system and ponder upon its problems and history ? Anyway, i agree that their salary is extravagant and its a solution to a problem they created. Profits trickling down to average Joes in the street ? Try communism but i doubt their ideology has succeeded thus far. Else, its the infrastructure provided to make individual decisions like employment and investment to boost personal well-being.Originally posted by Singa Crew:Kramnave mused...
"When government lose money, they are losing taxpayers money. When they earn money, they are profiteering at the citizens expense. Sometimes its just difficult to satisfy everybody."
Well Kram, in my opinion, that's because in Singapore we do not have welfare system like in the West. What the ordinary citizens see are the fat cats at the top lining their pockets with multi-million salaries while telling us to make necessary financial sacrifices. The profits do not trickle down to the average Joes in the streets. Can't blame us for not being satisfied.
Crew -
And your reply is....Originally posted by kramnave:Random musing.....
When government lose money, they are losing taxpayers money. When they earn money, they are profiteering at the citizens expense. Sometimes its just difficult to satisfy everybody.Originally posted by robertteh:Will the government please tell us when are our building of such huge profits and surpluses going to benefit us the ordinary citizens or the majority? Will the surpluses eventually go to benefit the durais or their connections, the elites or the rich in a grand hallucination of some sorts?
Therefore.......Originally posted by kramnave:Anyway, i agree that their salary is extravagant and its a solution to a problem they created. Profits trickling down to average Joes in the street ? Try communism but i doubt their ideology has succeeded thus far][/quote]
That would reinforce .....
[quote]Originally posted by Singa Crew
What the ordinary citizens see are the fat cats at the top lining their pockets with multi-million salaries while telling us to make necessary financial sacrifices. The profits do not trickle down to the average Joes in the streets. Can't blame us for not being satisfied.
So to conclude....Interview by FEER of Chee Soon Juan:The need for transparency and accountability also means that Singapore will have to change. That is the source of Mr. Chee’s optimism in the face of all his setbacks: “I realize that Singapore is not at that level yet. But we’ve got to start somewhere. And I’m prepared to see this out, in the sense that in the next five, 10, 15 years, time is on our side. We need to continue to organize and educate and encourage. And it will come.”
Dam im getting good at all this tech stuffOriginally posted by robertteh:Will the government please tell us when are our building of such huge profits and surpluses going to benefit us the ordinary citizens or the majority? -
Originally posted by kramnave:
Profits trickling down to average Joes in the street ? Try communism but i doubt their ideology has succeeded thus far.
Whoa! are you calling the President of the USA a commie? Are you calling the PM of Britain a commie? By your definition, countries that have welfare for their citizens are communist countries? What about Sweden? Do you even know what's a welfare state is? Welfare state does not mean communism ok? Are you some retired ISD officer from the 80s? Dude. The Cold War is over. You can't use the 'Marxist conspiracy' bullcrap anymore.
Go read the political science textbooks before making untrue statements like that.
Crew
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Originally posted by Singa Crew:
Whoa! are you calling the President of the USA a commie? Are you calling the PM of Britain a commie? By your definition, countries that have welfare for their citizens are communist countries? What about Sweden? Do you even know what's a welfare state is? Welfare state does not mean communism ok? Are you some retired ISD officer from the 80s? Dude. The Cold War is over. You can't use the 'Marxist conspiracy' bullcrap anymore.
Go read the political science textbooks before making untrue statements like that.
Crew
Most welfare systems are on a PAYG basis (unless paid by oil)...the money don't come from "profits". Basically workers feed non-workers and if your population is ageing, there is no guarantee you'll get the money. It won't take long for a professional to hit top income tax bracket as well. Thats how it goes. Profits don't trickle down to the average joes, get it ?!
As i said, your best chance of getting profits trickling down to citizens is communism but it is doomed to fail as with any other system, there are people who want to do less but get more. I prefer studying/working in some of these countries rather than hole up in the library reading political science textbooks and decide i can rule the world.
sCrew
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Originally posted by robertteh:
Chee Soon Juan was not wrong during one election in confronting ex-PM Goh Chok Tong with the question: "Where is our monies?" CSJ was simply asking for accountability from our ex-PM for using of citizens' monies in propping up Suharto's own financial crisis.
The media and weak people considered his action as rude behavior and condemned him for this incident.
Now we the citizens have to live with the consequence of siding with a government who spent our surpluses and taxes without accountability like happening in Citibank and Merryl Lynch where our ministers even became their advisors working against our own interests.
We reap what we sow.
That is also no telling that he will not be the next batch or even worse...
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just ask 'where is the $', kena sued liao, just say i have the police report here against the pap, kena sued liao. what the F***, communist regime
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chee tried to get mediacorp and SPH to become third party defendants for their role in disseminating his comments to make them well known to the public.
that's what the media gets for helping to express his voice. i don't think this individual is worthy of any discussion.
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Chee is the most active and aggressive force in Singapore opposing the PAP ruling clique.
If don't discuss him, discuss who?
No one else dares to oppose and resist the PAP.
All scared of being sued and bankrupted.
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Poh Ah Pek,
What you have said is absolutely correct!!!
If we have quiet and mild pretentious oppositions like now we might as well not have them at all!!!
Sad to say, defamations suits against politicians have worked wonders here.
Our citizens have been mostly brainwashed into believing in all those propagandas against CSJ and we see them criticising CSJ instead of the wrong doings like NKF or rising costs of living due to scheming and profiteering by power.
If the government is truly talented it should not be afraid of CSJ but answer him and his criticisms solidly with facts and not defamation suits of all kinds which are heard in their own powered courtrooms.
In the first place, it is common sense that politically motivated defamation suits are against natural justice and should nothave been heard in our politically controlled courts where chief justice was appointed by and their salary and promotion administered by the government without independent scrutiny by the parliament or other independent panel.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Chee is the most active and aggressive force in Singapore opposing the PAP ruling clique.
If don't discuss him, discuss who?
No one else dares to oppose and resist the PAP.
All scared of being sued and bankrupted.
i think these may be the minority if they do exist.come on. every few years an election is held and if they want change, they could have. its all up to them.
and what happened?
that is the holy undeniable truth.
the people had spoken and they had always had spoken. all in their hands. result of their decision.
i am neutral. i cannot say good or bad. self must be preserved.