14-yrs Singaporeans boys to be flogged publicly
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Originally posted by <Precious>:
I'm all for these pupils to be flogged publicly. All this fear about the boys being scarred psychologically is over-protecting them. Whack the shee-it outta them I say!
If we don't hammer these kids to shape now, they'll never learn their lesson. And when they repeat their errant ways when they are grown up, society will punish them even more severely.....
i don't think its overprotecting them leh. i think its good to evaluate why do we punish someone.
is it to enact justice so that the victim will feel at peace?
is it to condition the perp of his wrongdoing so that he knows that it was wrong?
is it to use them as examples to "kill the chicken to scare the monkey"?
i think the only good reasons to punish someone is to let him know that his actions are not acceptable and to allow the victim to have some sense of peace and justice. until the perp realises that what he does is wrong, he's going to do it again, and again and again.
how many times can you publically flog someone? it only works once, because it is inefficient once he is numbed to the attention, or he grows to like the attention.
kids will be kids, they're going to be idiots, and teenagers will be teenagers, always wanting to prove their worth and bravado. the worrying part is whether they will mature and be responsible adults. and i'm not sure public humiliation is a step towards that path.
i agree that they should be flogged, but not publically.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
i don't think its overprotecting them leh. i think its good to evaluate why do we punish someone.
is it to enact justice so that the victim will feel at peace?
is it to condition the perp of his wrongdoing so that he knows that it was wrong?
is it to use them as examples to "kill the chicken to scare the monkey"?
i think the only good reasons to punish someone is to let him know that his actions are not acceptable and to allow the victim to have some sense of peace and justice. until the perp realises that what he does is wrong, he's going to do it again, and again and again.
how many times can you publically flog someone? it only works once, because it is inefficient once he is numbed to the attention, or he grows to like the attention.
kids will be kids, they're going to be idiots, and teenagers will be teenagers, always wanting to prove their worth and bravado. the worrying part is whether they will mature and be responsible adults. and i'm not sure public humiliation is a step towards that path.
i agree that they should be flogged, but not publically.
maybe it shud be done like in the adult world.. announce that they will be caned, but do it behind closed doors, like only teachers see.. den can serve the purpose of let the student guai guai and the teacher feel justice served..
and if the students do it again, 2nd or 3rd offence, den make it public..
that will be better.. no?
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Originally posted by purpledragon84:
maybe it shud be done like in the adult world.. announce that they will be caned, but do it behind closed doors, like only teachers see.. den can serve the purpose of let the student guai guai and the teacher feel justice served..
and if the students do it again, 2nd or 3rd offence, den make it public..
that will be better.. no?
you want to wait till it happen again then do something abt it? won't that be too late though.
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Originally posted by rlsh07:
you want to wait till it happen again then do something abt it? won't that be too late though.
hmm.. den we must make sure the 1st caning that was done behind closed doors is 1 x jialat jialat for them le.. it must be a freaking damn terrible experience for them to remember by.. since there was no humiliation to let them remember their wrongdoings by, the pain factor must kick in liao..
that way they wun 2nd time.. and if they 2nd time, den make it public lo..
like that will have the effect of "upgrade" the experience mah.. singapore everything oso must upgrade..
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Originally posted by rlsh07:
you want to wait till it happen again then do something abt it? won't that be too late though.
like what? rape?
there's always risks involved when you show grace and give benefits of the doubt.
in this case, i give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not young demented perverts role-playing rape fantasies in their head, but they're just trying to show off how brave they are and just being naughty.
i mean, what's the use of public humiliation. for example in USA, child molesters are profiled publically, not to shame them, but to allow people around them to safeguard their kids, in case things do go wrong.
so you really have to ask yourself, what is the purpose of punishing them publically?
if you're saying to educate them from their wrongdoings, i think caning is good enough.
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I say flog em!
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
like what? rape?
there's always risks involved when you show grace and give benefits of the doubt.
in this case, i give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not young demented perverts role-playing rape fantasies in their head, but they're just trying to show off how brave they are and just being naughty.
i mean, what's the use of public humiliation. for example in USA, child molesters are profiled publically, not to shame them, but to allow people around them to safeguard their kids, in case things do go wrong.
so you really have to ask yourself, what is the purpose of punishing them publically?
i guess i',m glad i dun have to be a judge though because can't say it's wrong or it's right. it's a decision that was made at that point of time though.
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Originally posted by rlsh07:
i guess i',m glad i dun have to be a judge though because can't say it's wrong or it's right. it's a decision that was made at that point of time though.
well, its good to consider how we would choose to act if we were in the shoes of the principal, or the judge, making the unpleasant call.
because one day, we might have to make that call.
i just feel that, there's a reason why there's a yellow ribbon project. would you want to be forever be branded a pervert because you were naughty at the age of 10? sure, kids make dumb mistakes. they don't think before they act, that's why they're kids. that's how they learn. personally, flogging publically is a small issue la. i'm just saying that after all that, give them a chance to walk life on a clean slate.
don't brand anyone who made a mistake and forever remind them of it. unless they're idiots.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
well, its good to consider how we would choose to act if we were in the shoes of the principal, or the judge, making the unpleasant call.
because one day, we might have to make that call.
i just feel that, there's a reason why there's a yellow ribbon project. would you want to be forever be branded a pervert because you were naughty at the age of 10? sure, kids make dumb mistakes. they don't think before they act, that's why they're kids. that's how they learn. personally, flogging publically is a small issue la. i'm just saying that after all that, give them a chance to walk life on a clean slate.
don't brand anyone who made a mistake and forever remind them of it. unless they're idiots.
i would say dun judge but yet be discerning
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Originally posted by rlsh07:
i would say dun judge but yet be discerning
sometimes situation calls for you to judge la. one reason for punishment is to give the victim a sense of justice and peace, remember?
but after issuing the punishment, its impt to also allow the perp a chance to live life on a clean slate.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
sometimes situation calls for you to judge la. one reason for punishment is to give the victim a sense of justice and peace, remember?
but after issuing the punishment, its impt to also allow the perp a chance to live life on a clean slate.
have to see if the person will turn over a new leaf i guess. hmm.. some decisions are some judgements are real hard to make though. dun u think so?
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wa tats too light sentence liao... they should feel the same how rapist felt when they got caned... therefore the sch should use tougher punishment so these boyz will learn... all the protecting will only spoil them... their punishment should be made known to the parents who sent their kids in same school too...
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Serve them right. Your quote is unfair to the school management, as you dont give the full story.
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Originally posted by BrUtUs:
wa tats too light sentence liao... they should feel the same how rapist felt when they got caned... therefore the sch should use tougher punishment so these boyz will learn... all the protecting will only spoil them... their punishment should be made known to the parents who sent their kids in same school too...
might as well just give everyone the death sentence.
how can give punishment for rape on naughty kids?
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Originally posted by rlsh07:
have to see if the person will turn over a new leaf i guess. hmm.. some decisions are some judgements are real hard to make though. dun u think so?
yep. its hard to balance grace and judgement.
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
yep. its hard to balance grace and judgement.
yeah though. hmm..
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smLJ?@?!?!?!!!!
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If they dare to something as shameless as this, would caning them in public scar them?
I think not.
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caning is really nothing.. i dunno wats with kids today.. small things kpkb
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Think this objectively: Will caning solves the problem?
Think this psychologically: When you get embarrassed/humiliated for something (Remember, you mind is still not matured yet), what will you do?
Will you learnt from it? Avoid making the same mistake and try some other method to get back (revenge)? Probably the second choice, right?
In the end, I feel that caning doesn't solve any problem, its just sweeping dirt under the carpet and pretend its clean.
Just some scaring tactics which Singapore like to use which is obviously failing in its purpose in teenagers nowadays. Teenagers nowadays simply isn't scared of caning, instead they get more rebellious.
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Originally posted by FBI:
caning is really nothing.. i dunno wats with kids today.. small things kpkb
upgrade to punching?
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Originally posted by furb:
Think this objectively: Will caning solves the problem?
Think this psychologically: When you get embarrassed/humiliated for something (Remember, you mind is still not matured yet), what will you do?
Will you learnt from it? Avoid making the same mistake and try some other method to get back (revenge)? Probably the second choice, right?
In the end, I feel that caning doesn't solve any problem, its just sweeping dirt under the carpet and pretend its clean.
Just some scaring tactics which Singapore like to use which is obviously failing in its purpose in teenagers nowadays. Teenagers nowadays simply isn't scared of caning, instead they get more rebellious.
The kids would most likely go with the second choice especially if their actions were not done out of perversion but for fun and on impulse. They will feel that they have been wronged and do not deserve the severe punishment and humiliation of not just being caned in public but being labelled as perverts by everyone around them for the rest of their secondary school life.
I'm not agreeing with TS regarding his view that they need not be punished because their actions have not been carried out, but caning them in public simply serve no purpose but to snuff out their self-esteem and amplify their rebelliousness. From what I can remember when I was a kid, after the punishment, they will probably be afraid if they don't do anything to get back at the teachers, their peers would assume that they accept the punishment because they are indeed perverts and are guilty of what they have done, hence rebellious actions would usually follow thereafter to avoid that.
The staff in charge of student discipline in that school should definitely investigate the matter further to find out the cause and intention behind their actions before deciding on a solution instead of just lazily throwing up a one-rod-ends-all.
Spare the rod, and spoil the child. But if you misuse the rod, you create a devil within him.
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do u think the principal want to flog him?
it will give him extra job to write report to MOE and Strait Times.
But if may help draw more parents to school.
There are many parents looking for schools with strict diciplines.
if is better to be flogged in school than in prision!!
Heard criminal willing to stay longer in prision than
te flogged.
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how come nobirdie says that this is violation of human rights...?????? yet in other threads where the case is so very similar, everybody says that it's inhumane/barbaric/violation of human rights/etc...make up your minds can anot. so to pple in singapore, this is acceptable becos such an act is not accepted in our society. so flogging the boys is ok. yet when pple in other countries are flogged becos they have done something that is not accepted in their society, them getting beaten is not ok. ok. so maybe beating the boys is ok to u. but there are plenty of pple in other parts of the world who will scream 'violation of human rights!!! child abuse!!!' so how? you want them to mind their own business???? ok. so how abt next time something like this happens elsewhere, we mind our own business too.
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Originally posted by udontknowme:
how come nobirdie says that this is violation of human rights...?????? yet in other threads where the case is so very similar, everybody says that it's inhumane/barbaric/violation of human rights/etc...make up your minds can anot. so to pple in singapore, this is acceptable becos such an act is not accepted in our society. so flogging the boys is ok. yet when pple in other countries are flogged becos they have done something that is not accepted in their society, them getting beaten is not ok. ok. so maybe beating the boys is ok to u. but there are plenty of pple in other parts of the world who will scream 'violation of human rights!!! child abuse!!!' so how? you want them to mind their own business???? ok. so how abt next time something like this happens elsewhere, we mind our own business too.
I see your point. An alternative to physical punishment may be the use of coventry.
It's a practice of ignoring someone as a punishment. However while it can be very effective it requires the participation of all and is difficult to organize.
They used to brand thieves to warning to others not to trust them. Or cut off hands etc.
The less extreme version would be putting them in jails, in effect being ignored by society, except jails have developed their own social systems that can exacerbate the problem.
A public humiliation has somewhat of the same effect as people distance themselves from the wrong doer.