Are We Getting what We are Paying so Much For?
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... the writer asked a very pertinent question; are we getting VALUE for the money we are paying?
... well, I just want to add that this question is also VERY applicable to what kind of value Singaporeans are getting as citizens, from all the Taxes & high costs of living as well as CPF we have to bear with?
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Conservancy charges: Is HDB giving value for money collected?
Tue, Feb 12, 2008
The Straits Times
A RESIDENT of a five-room HDB flat pays $73.50 a month in service & conservancy charges and another $90 in parking charge.A resident of a similar-size flat in a typical condominium pays about $200 per month. But that includes water, electricity, maintenance, mandatory lift check, cleaning service every day, clean lift, pest control, pleasant landscape, security, security cameras, covered parking lot, swimming pool, tennis court, function room, barbecue pit, recreation events, managing agent fee, some surplus for sinking fund at year-end and so on.
The HDB resident gets a parking lot and a not exactly clean environment.
Is the HDB overcharging residents or is it not doing enough to get value for residents?My friend lives in a condo, pays $200 a month and get all the things I mentioned, while I pay $163.50 in service & conservancy charges and for a parking lot. I get a dirty lift and floors. Furthermore, the HDB collects parking fines and hourly parking charges and keeps them.
As a big buyer, the HDB certainly has better bargaining power than the condo. The $163.50 paid to the HDB is excessive.
The HDB must explain how it spends the money it collects.
Richard Lim Poh Chuan
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Let's see how the authorities reply to this.
Maybe we will get a "Eat non branded bread" type reply.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Let's see how the authorities reply to this.
Maybe we will get a "Eat non branded bread" type reply.
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Wah i swaku...didn't know condo pay $200 inclusive of water and electricity !! Somemore a condo the size of a 5-Room Flat !!...lidat all stay condo lah..stay HDB for wat.
So Condo owners got separate electricity bill issit ? pay the charges then unlimited usage ah ? Wah..inclusive of parking, maintenance charges also ? so excess who pay ?
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maybe u get "you dun have to know how we use your money" type reply also.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Let's see how the authorities reply to this.
Maybe we will get a "Eat non branded bread" type reply.
Chiam and Low also can reply you. If so easy to run they would have spruced up their wards already.
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how about they will give "you got money, you stay in condo, don't stay in our HDB flats" reply...
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Originally posted by Seven_Dragon:
how about they will give "you got money, you stay in condo, don't stay in our HDB flats" reply...
Technically they can say that but I don't think they will. After all according to that guy's logic, for another $40 or so, you'll get tennis courts, swimming pool, cleaniness etc etc...and of course for utility bills equivalent of a 5-Room flat.
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Originally posted by kramnave:
Technically they can say that but I don't think they will. After all according to that guy's logic, for another $40 or so, you'll get tennis courts, swimming pool, cleaniness etc etc...and of course for utility bills equivalent of a 5-Room flat.
actually, it's true. well i think the conservancy wasn't that high, but the sum's around there. if you have like 2 cars it's actually cheaper or as expensive to stay in a condo. one thing though, is that person sure inclusive of ultility bills? 0.o -
Yeah but you got to factor in the premium you pay for a condo equivalent of a 5-room flat...that aside and of course his utility bills.....thats really crap..
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Originally posted by kramnave:
Yeah but you got to factor in the premium you pay for a condo equivalent of a 5-room flat...that aside and of course his utility bills.....thats really crap..
well the extra cash to buy the condo is one thing, but the fact remains regarding all that extra for another like 40 or 50 dollars. I don't believe the condo is running at a loss so that means that either HDB is over charging or freaking inefficient in this regard. -
Originally posted by hisoka:
well the extra cash to buy the condo is one thing, but the fact remains regarding all that extra for another like 40 or 50 dollars. I don't believe the condo is running at a loss so that means that either HDB is over charging or freaking inefficient in this regard.I wouldn't rule that out but the money goes into services and conservancy and not the construction of facilities. Besides, it kinda covers improvements made to the estate. For a clearer understanding perhaps Low Thia Khiang and Chiam See Tong can come out to explain also.
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My friend lives in a condo, pays $200 a month and get all the things I mentioned, while I pay $163.50 in service & conservancy charges and for a parking lot. I get a dirty lift and floors. Furthermore, the HDB collects parking fines and hourly parking charges and keeps them
Well..... maybe the Mr Lim could buy a unit at his friend's Condo lor..... then everything solve.
Can't afford a Condo
Then tooo baad lor....Still not happy
Then migrate to some some country where for the price of a 5 Room HDB, you could get a BIG LANDED Property lor......See.... problem solve
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Originally posted by kramnave:
I wouldn't rule that out but the money goes into services and conservancy and not the construction of facilities. Besides, it kinda covers improvements made to the estate. For a clearer understanding perhaps Low Thia Khiang and Chiam See Tong can come out to explain also.
Don't understand why you keep asking Mr Low and Mr Chiam to explain... are they the only 2 MP around? What about the rest of the PAP MP?
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Originally posted by hloc:
Well..... maybe the Mr Lim could buy a unit at his friend's Condo lor..... then everything solve.
Can't afford a Condo
Then tooo baad lor....Still not happy
Then migrate to some some country where
for the price of a 5 Room HDB, you could get a BIG
LANDED Property lor......See.... problem solve
And what about his current flat then?
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Originally posted by 333225520:
Don't understand why you keep asking Mr Low and Mr Chiam to explain... are they the only 2 MP around? What about the rest of the PAP MP?
Because there is a general perception PAP MPs are not transparent enough and are part of the government that overcharges/profiteers and the expense of citizens. Therefore, a chance is presented for Mr Low Thia Khiang and Mr Chiam See Tong to be more transparent and come out to tell you what happens to the service and conservancy charges you pay.
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Originally posted by kramnave:
I wouldn't rule that out but the money goes into services and conservancy and not the construction of facilities. Besides, it kinda covers improvements made to the estate. For a clearer understanding perhaps Low Thia Khiang and Chiam See Tong can come out to explain also.
oh mistake, i meant that they could do the upkeep on so many more things. like maintianing the security( whcih for HDB there isn't any), swimming pool, gym facilities, free extra carparks and such. or should it be asking why the basics cost so much. -
And what about his current flat then?
Sell off to fund his Condo downpayment lor....
Or as funding, along with his CPF when he return his IC, and buy his Landed Property overseas lor.....
In S'pore.... there are just 2 type of housing..... Public or Private....
Think you paid too much for Public Housing..... then buy Private Housing. Can't afford Private Housing, then no choice but to accept the shortcoming of Public Housing.
To be fair..... Mr Lim forget to add how much his friend pay Property Tax each year..... and of course how much his friend is paying back the Bank each mth...... and not forgeting the part where the same 'RESIDENTS', who don't own Cars - and therefore don't pay Parking - are paying JUST $73.50 each month.
Here's another idea.....
If Mr Lim can't afford a Condo and can't move overseas..... maybe he could downgrade from 5Room to 4Room HDB....... The service & conservancy charges are much lower...... Of course if Mr Lim wants a Big Size house..... then he would have to pay for it lor.....
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Originally posted by hisoka:
oh mistake, i meant that they could do the upkeep on so many more things. like maintianing the security( whcih for HDB there isn't any), swimming pool, gym facilities, free extra carparks and such. or should it be asking why the basics cost so much.I get what you mean but there are differences and not everybody pays the same rate. Check your local town council website. Out of the blue I'm getting a sports complex/community club at my doorstep, covered linkways to the bus-stop etc, improvement works. I think we can afford to pay for the maintenance of security, swimming pool as well but it wouldn't be feasible for various reasons. Think condo owners and HDB owners are paying for different things but i would suppose the basics would cost quite a bit as well.
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Originally posted by kramnave:
Because there is a general perception PAP MPs are not transparent enough and are part of the government that overcharges/profiteers and the expense of citizens. Therefore, a chance is presented for Mr Low Thia Khiang and Mr Chiam See Tong to be more transparent and come out to tell you what happens to the service and conservancy charges you pay.
The PAP MPs clearly outnumber the opposition MPs and it is no secret that PAP constituencies get more govt (aka PAP) support. So obviously PAP MPs should be the one to explain this issue, isn't that so?
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Originally posted by 333225520:
The PAP MPs clearly outnumber the opposition MPs and it is no secret that PAP constituencies get more govt (aka PAP) support. So obviously PAP MPs should be the one to explain this issue, isn't that so?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Opposition MPs ought to explain. I'm just saying that they are in the position to do so in the event some people think that PAP MPs "refuse to be transparent" about it and actually wants to go and ask an MP about it. With or without PAP support, people living in opposition wards still pay services and conservancy charges. So it doesn't matter who you ask.
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Condo conservancy charges do not include water or electricity to the homes.
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A resident of a similar-size flat in a typical condominium pays about $200 per month. But that includes water, electricity, maintenance, mandatory lift check, cleaning service every day, clean lift, pest control, pleasant landscape, security, security cameras, covered parking lot, swimming pool, tennis court, function room, barbecue pit, recreation events, managing agent fee, some surplus for sinking fund at year-end and so on.
Unless you are living in a mega projects, your maintanence fee usually cost >$250 per month. Plus, some condo only entitle you to 1 free parking lot. If you own a second car, you might not be give a lot, or you will have to pay a montly fee on top of what you are paying.
If you are paying $90 for parking at HDB, you will also be given covered carpark. Function rooms and BBQ facitlies are not free, you have to pay to use them.
The reason condos have sinking fund is because all repairs and estate painting will be paid by owners themselves and there is no such thing as subsidized UPGRADING.
I am sure they have daily cleaning service at HDB isnt it?
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To be fair..... Mr Lim forget to add how much his friend pay Property Tax each year..... and of course how much his friend is paying back the Bank each mth...... and not forgeting the part where the same 'RESIDENTS', who don't own Cars - and therefore don't pay Parking - are paying JUST $73.50 each month.
This part is so very true
Let's put it in another way:
If you got money and you are dissatisfied with HDB's service, why choose to stay in a HDB, increasing the total demand on flats and thus the price, and depriving someone else who wants to stay in a HDB flat in that area?A 5-rm HDB costs maybe around $600k, but a condo can be at least twice that amount (the more average ones). In addition, if I'm not wrong, interest rates of HDB loans are lesser than that of bank loans for condos.
Then again, to be fair, HDB should also make sure that living area should be pleasing to the eye (take a look at fernvale HDB... it's quite new and nice). However, if the HDB has a "not so clean" environment as the author has described, he has the right to complain.
I would also like to use this post to compare with things happening in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is, along with Singapore, one of the 4 Asian Tigers. Hong Kong has usable land area almost that of Singapore, yet a much higher population than Singapore. Their property prices are also very high, higher than that in Singapore.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Let's see how the authorities reply to this.
Maybe we will get a "Eat non branded bread" type reply.
that MCST managers don't get paid a million but HDB big boss does.
MCST managers get's peanut and gets monkey but
HDB managers are highly salaried to prevent corruption