Investments in Merril Lynch making money for Temasek
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Sorry to say that I have zero confident in you managing my wealth.Just like maurizio do not have confidence in Temasek or GIC, does he even have a choice of not letting them manage Singapore's wealth, of which part of it comes from him paying tax?
Glad you can think in their shoes.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Just like maurizio do not have confidence in Temasek or GIC, does he even have a choice of not letting them manage Singapore's wealth, of which part of it comes from him paying tax?
Glad you can think in their shoes.
Temasek and GIC have a track record which I can use to make my judgement. maurizio doesnt have any to talk about.
Hope you realise by now that talking in an open forum is cheap.
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Temasek and GIC have a track record which I can use to make my judgement. maurizio doesnt have any to talk about.
Hope you realise by now that talking in an open forum is cheap.
A track record does not mean one should have confidence in them. Where did you get the idea from?
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Originally posted by eagle:
A track record does not mean one should have confidence in them. Where did you get the idea from?
Please read what I wrote again. I said a track record I can use to make my own judgement.
If a company or an employee has a GOOD track record, why should you doubt them? political motives?
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Sorry to say that I have zero confident in you managing my wealth.It's ok, I know you don't even have a million dollars, much less a billion dollars.
It's better you put your money in Temasek's Ho Ching and her overseas investment.Don't take into account the profits of the Singapore investments, I haven't the slightest doubt
that they make alot of money.
Why?
Because of monopoly power in most of the industry they have stake in.
During last year, when sub prime woes was made public, gold was around US$700 an ounce.
I told my dad to buy gold, but he didn't heed too.
For myself, I went around looking for gold options, not sure if there were any, because it is more
profitable to buy options than to hold physical gold.
But I wasn't resourceful and I didn't manage to find places in Singapore that sell gold options.
These days, gold is around US$900 an ounce.
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Please read what I wrote again. I said a track record I can use to make my own judgement.
If a company or an employee has a GOOD track record, why should you doubt them? political motives?
Historical records is not good for making investment decisons.Like Merrill Lynch, it has good past records, but where is it now?
Once has to make analysis based on future economic conditions based
on current information and not past information.
Like when Temasek decided to take the big plunge by investing in Merrill Lynch,
did they not forsee the imminent depreciation of the US dollar due to sub prime issues.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
It's ok, I know you don't even have a million dollars, much less a billion dollars.
It's better you put your money in Temasek's Ho Ching and her overseas investment.Don't take into account the profits of the Singapore investments, I haven't the slightest doubt
that they make alot of money.
Why?
Because of monopoly power in most of the industry they have stake in.
During last year, when sub prime woes was made public, gold was around US$700 an ounce.
I told my dad to buy gold, but he didn't heed too.
For myself, I went around looking for gold options, not sure if there were any, because it is more
profitable to buy options than to hold physical gold.
But I wasn't resourceful and I didn't manage to find places in Singapore that sell gold options.
These days, gold is around US$900 an ounce.
I suppose the reason why you talk about gold investment is to highlight that you are an expert in this area and you are a better investor than Temasek and GIC??
Actually I also bought 1 kg in Q4 last year and it is now trading at around US$970 an ounce. Do you think there is still some upside to gold? And why?
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Historical records is not good for making investment decisons.Like Merrill Lynch, it has good past records, but where is it now?
Once has to make analysis based on future economic conditions based
on current information and not past information.
Like when Temasek decided to take the big plunge by investing in Merrill Lynch,
did they not forsee the imminent depreciation of the US dollar due to sub prime issues.
Merrill Lynch is still around, they are in the mist of recovering from the subprime crisis.
Subprime, is a global crisis which orginated from USA and it affects global financial institutions.
ML is a bluechip company and to be call a bluechip company, one will have to have good earning and asset value track records and trackrecord is something you MUST use when making investment decision.
What makes you think that Singapore government is not aware of the imminent depreciation of US dollar when making recent acquisition decision?
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Originally posted by eagle:
Just like maurizio do not have confidence in Temasek or GIC, does he even have a choice of not letting them manage Singapore's wealth, of which part of it comes from him paying tax?
Glad you can think in their shoes.
If opposition MPs are not questioning the detailed decisions of Temasek or GIC, why should any choice be given to whoever is this maurizio?Like any commercial decision, he will have the right to question the decision if his shares of the companies give him the right to be represented in the BOD. How much tax is maurizio paying? owning one lot of OCBC doesn't give him the right to question Mr. Wee.
Of course, he still has a choice, sell the shares.
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Merrill Lynch is still around, they are in the mist of recovering from the subprime crisis.
Subprime, is a global crisis which orginated from USA and it affects global financial institutions.
ML is a bluechip company and to be call a bluechip company, one will have to have good earning and asset value track records and trackrecord is something you MUST use when making investment decision.
What makes you think that Singapore government is not aware of the imminent depreciation of US dollar when making recent acquisition decision?
Simple logical explanation, if you think that Temasick (Singapore Government) did factor in the depreciation of the US Dollar in Dec 2007.
Would it be cheaper to pay approximately SG$6.248 billions (US$1 = SG$1.42) for Merrill Lynch in Dec 2007, or pay SG$6.072 billions (US$1 = SG$1.38)
for it now? At the end of the year, if the US Dollar falls to US$1 = SG$1.30, would it be cheaper to pay for it using SG$5.72 billions?
You are ONLY factoring in the depreciation of the US Dollar, you haven't even factor in the likely losses from the sub prime debacle.
With the wide exposure of Merrill Lynch to sub prime mortgages.
Do you think that it was a worthwhile investment if Merrill Lynch gave you an approximately US$5 discount from it's share price from it's
share price of around US$53 in Dec 2007.
Did they even factor in the imminent recession facing USA in 2008?
Then again, Temasick is not directly using CPF funds, so directly it's not the money of Singaporeans.
BUT indirectly, MAS makes a loan of close to $100 billions to Temasick, CPF makes a loan of $100 billons to MAS.
CPF $100 billions ==> MAS $100 billions ==> Temasick.$100 billions
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There is not much need to try to analyze why they made all those stupid decisions. They bought a big chunk of Barclay's at double the price of what it is now.
We look at it and say: Stupid despots. Do not play with Singaporeans money. Pay the people a higher interest rate for the CPF money forceably taken by them.
Stop taking Singaporeans money through hidden taxes.
Resign for making stupid decisions instead of protecting their own family members, cronies and party members.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
There is not much need to try to analyze why they made all those stupid decisions. They bought a big chunk of Barclay's at double the price of what it is now.
We look at it and say: Stupid despots. Do not play with Singaporeans money. Pay the people a higher interest rate for the CPF money forceably taken by them.
Stop taking Singaporeans money through hidden taxes.
Resign for making stupid decisions instead of protecting their own family members, cronies and party members.
Pay higher interest rates?Later they increase all the other charges like SMRT, SBS, SP, ST, ERP, HDB, GST, etc
Singaporeans also LPPL.
Please don't pay higher interest rates, also don't take any more money from us.
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They have an obligation to pay higher (fair) interests with the open taxes they collect.
You forgot that I also said: "Stop taking Singaporeans money through hidden taxes."
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Simple logical explanation, if you think that Temasick (Singapore Government) did factor in the depreciation of the US Dollar in Dec 2007.
Would it be cheaper to pay approximately SG$6.248 billions (US$1 = SG$1.42) for Merrill Lynch in Dec 2007, or pay SG$6.072 billions (US$1 = SG$1.38)
for it now? At the end of the year, if the US Dollar falls to US$1 = SG$1.30, would it be cheaper to pay for it using SG$5.72 billions?
You are ONLY factoring in the depreciation of the US Dollar, you haven't even factor in the likely losses from the sub prime debacle.
With the wide exposure of Merrill Lynch to sub prime mortgages.
Do you think that it was a worthwhile investment if Merrill Lynch gave you an approximately US$5 discount from it's share price from it's
share price of around US$53 in Dec 2007.
Did they even factor in the imminent recession facing USA in 2008?
Then again, Temasick is not directly using CPF funds, so directly it's not the money of Singaporeans.
BUT indirectly, MAS makes a loan of close to $100 billions to Temasick, CPF makes a loan of $100 billons to MAS.
CPF $100 billions ==> MAS $100 billions ==> Temasick.$100 billions
maurizio, buying a huge equity stake in a bluechip company such as ML is not like trading shares in the stock market, where you can enter and exit anytime you like.
When you talk about forex loses, are you aware that,
1) Most of Singapore reserves are still in US$ denomination,, hence it will not make a difference if they buy ML at 1.38 or 1.45
2) In 2007, analyst at DBS; which is a GLC, has already forecasted that US$ will hit as low as 1.38 in 2008, way before Temasek acquire ML. You mean those guys at Temasek and GIC dont read newspaper?
3) Suppose if Temasek and GIC are so concern about FOREX loses, I am sure it will not be difficult for them to get MAS to devalue the S$ just to make their investment look pretty isnt it?
What seperate a good investor from an average one is his/her ability to identify opportunities when everyone else are running for cover.
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...and don't forget that they said they need more money when they announced the need to increase GST by 2% and then this year announced a budget surplus of $6 billion.
... they are off by so much and we can only guess that they are either stupid or dishonorable despots bent on taking as much of Singaporeans money as possible by telling people they need to increase GST by 2% because they need the money....
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
There is not much need to try to analyze why they made all those stupid decisions. They bought a big chunk of Barclay's at double the price of what it is now.
We look at it and say: Stupid despots. Do not play with Singaporeans money. Pay the people a higher interest rate for the CPF money forceably taken by them.
Stop taking Singaporeans money through hidden taxes.
Resign for making stupid decisions instead of protecting their own family members, cronies and party members.
Andrew, I remember you starting a thread on 13st Jan08 saying that it WAS about time to invest in the stock market again. I wonder why are you avoiding that thread?http://www.sgforums.com/forums/2092/topics/305953
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Andrew, I remember you starting a thread on 13st Jan08 saying that it WAS about time to invest in the stock market again. I wonder why are you avoiding that thread?http://www.sgforums.com/forums/2092/topics/305953
Don't put words into my mouth. I said it is time to start thinking about investing... meaning time to seriously look at the market and make plans. Stock market investment is not tikam tikam like what the despots do and hope for the best.
..and don't change the subject... this thread is about the stupid decisions the despots make with Singaporeans hard earned money that they relentlessly take... -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Don't put words into my mouth. I said it is time to start thinking about investing... meaning time to seriously look at the market and make plans. Stock market investment is not tikam tikam like what the despots do and hope for the best.
..and don't change the subject... this thread is about the stupid decisions the despots make with Singaporeans hard earned money that they relentlessly take...I for one believe the whole purpose of starting the above thread is similar to the one which you talk about the market crash. And I will be surprise that, suppose in 6 months time, when the market start to recover, you wont be telling us that back in Jan08, you have already "predicted" a market recovery.
Talk about tikam, I think you are the biggest tikam king in this forum.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Don't put words into my mouth. I said it is time to start thinking about investing... meaning time to seriously look at the market and make plans. Stock market investment is not tikam tikam like what the despots do and hope for the best.
..and don't change the subject... this thread is about the stupid decisions the despots make with Singaporeans hard earned money that they relentlessly take...Somehow he also put words into my mouth in other threads.
But to be fair, it may be because he thinks in a different way from us, which is btw, a compliment.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Somehow he also put words into my mouth in other threads.
But to be fair, it may be because he thinks in a different way from us, which is btw, a compliment.
I am glad that you admit that you and andrewpkyap think alike. you are a very honest young man. -
Originally posted by TCH05:
I am glad that you admit that you and andrewpkyap think alike. you are a very honest young man.Another perfect example of you putting words into others mouth. Different from us doesn't mean I think the same as him.
Thanks for proving what we said.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Another perfect example of you putting words into others mouth. Different from us doesn't mean I think the same as him.
Thanks for proving what we said.
Originally posted by eagle:Somehow he also put words into my mouth in other threads.
But to be fair, it may be because he thinks in a different way from us, which is btw, a compliment.
Am i suppose to read between the lines again?
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Am i suppose to read between the lines again?
You are supposed to understand english and set theory (maths).
You think different from us is not the same as we think alike.
It is just like a I'm a circle, Andrew is a square and you are a triangle. You are different from us, but it does not mean we are alike in any way.Gosh, simple elementary comprehension you also cannot understand. Guess I have to go down to the way I talk to kids when I talk to you for you to understand
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Originally posted by eagle:
You are supposed to understand english and set theory (maths).
You think different from us is not the same as we think alike.
It is just like a I'm a circle, Andrew is a square and you are a triangle. You are different from us, but it does not mean we are alike in any way.Gosh, simple elementary comprehension you also cannot understand. Guess I have to go down to the way I talk to kids when I talk to you for you to understand
what is the point of saying that a triangle think differently from a circle and square when circle and square doesnt even think alike.
I guess I am supposed to read between the lines again.
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Originally posted by TCH05:
what is the point of saying that a triangle think differently from a circle and square when circle and square doesnt even think alike.
I guess I am supposed to read between the lines again.
Oh, another case of putting words into my mouth.
But it's ok that you don't understand simple logic. You have demonstrated that fact many times.
Add on: I see that you have somewhat gotten the point:You mentioned:
A triangle think differently from a circle and square when circle and square doesnt even think alike.
So, I have mentioned you think differently from us. Have I even minutely mentioned both me and Andrew think alike? If I haven't, wouldn't that be you putting words into my mouth?