A Letter to the Straits Times Forum ... Hear ! Hear ! ....
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Originally posted by SevenEleven:
my son told me after his national service, he's going aboard to study and may decide to settle over there. Not only is Singapore losing a Singaporean, I'll losing my son too.
Is it that compelling to leave S'pore? -
Originally posted by Scania L113 lover:
Is it that compelling to leave S'pore?i don't know for my root is here but he had not found a reason for the passion here
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Yes on the face of it this policy looks to be very unfair to Singaporeans.
I hope the Govt does something about it.
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Originally posted by SevenEleven:
i don't know for my root is here but he had not found a reason for the passion here
No comments then.But it's kinda sad to hear this. And probably sadder as a father for you to hear this from him.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
that's not quite the issue here ... what about Singaporean students having to work in Mcdonalds to pay off their study loans ... with 3.5 average too ? .... is it fair ? ....
why is the goverment selectively recognizing foreign "talents" while neglecting our own home grown talents ? ....
and the living God wonders why we are loosing "1000 top talents a year" ? ...... when locals graduate with a backside full of debts ... we are already not fighting on a level playing field ..... and when your own home ground is stacked against you, what's stopping you to leave instead ? ....
it is time for a change .... remember this letter when you cast your votes (if you even get to vote at all) in 2011 ....
I wonder the govt finally admitted that one thousand locals have migrated to other countries n in their desperation move to increase the population, they brought in Chinese immgrants but somehow the puzzling thing is how many of these Chinese national plan to Spore their country? -
Originally posted by SevenEleven:
my son told me after his national service, he's going aboard to study and may decide to settle over there. Not only is Singapore losing a Singaporean, I'll losing my son too.
join him overseas lor.. what is there to hold u back in sg? chicken rice?
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Originally posted by will4:
I wonder the govt finally admitted that one thousand locals have migrated to other countries n in their desperation move to increase the population, they brought in Chinese immgrants but somehow the puzzling thing is how many of these Chinese national plan to Spore their country?
tee kum and hope to hit jackpot
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Originally posted by will4:
I wonder the govt finally admitted that one thousand locals have migrated to other countries n in their desperation move to increase the population, they brought in Chinese immgrants but somehow the puzzling thing is how many of these Chinese national plan to Spore their country?one PRC civil engineer is here in australia after staying in SG working with LTA for 10 years. and he has a son aged 8. so he want to avoid NS for his son...
they are not stupid... use whatever opportunity ahead and get out before the liability kicks in..
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I've been griping about this for quite awhile already. A lot of these "scholars" are as mentioned really not good not even to say better than poor locals like us. thing is I think they don't even need to get a minimum grade as long as they don't get kicked out of uni..... Which brings me to another point of scholars in general. From what i know truth is the govt. scholars are only reequired to get a 3.5 in CAP for NUS and a similar standard oversea which is only a second lower. Thats incredible low achieving considering they are choosen on academic achievements.......
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what the goverment seems to fail to understand is that we cannot play the foreign talents game like other countries do .... we are a Nation, so we cannot become a city of transients like hong kong ... and we are a young, tiny, artificial nation with a nascent national identity, with no "heartland" to speak of .... other much bigger western countries may have gleaming mega cities, their new yorks, their melbournes, their vancouvers which are able to absorb waves after waves of immigrants, but they have their "heartlands" where the national identity, the national psyche, is still forged ... the US has their middle america ... the canadian has their prairie provinces, the aussies has their "bush"... the outbacks ... we have only the HDB estates ..... my point is that our identity is so fragile that it can easily be destroyed in a generation or two .... our capacity to absorb immigrants is much much lower than those western countries listed above .... we thus cannot afford to play the talents game the way they play it ..... this unrestricted, unbridled influx of immigrants is eroding the roots of our society ...
Oh well, don't mind me ... I'm just a young man who went to uni via the poly route ... a non-elite in other words ... and there's the most disheartening thing of all ... if I leave, would I even be counted as a numerical loss for the nation ? Since I am not among the "top 1000 talents" who leave yearly ? ...
I have met my share of Singaporean Scholars overseas ... quitters all ... doctors, researchers, investment bankers, elites ... but what really troubled me the most was running into heartland uncles and aunties overseas, for the elites of any society have always been mobile, they will always be moving to greener pastures regardless .... but when you run into an uncle formerly from bedok selling mee pok tah in BC, then I think something has gone seriously wrong with our society ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
when you run into an uncle formerly from bedok selling mee pok tah in BC, then I think something has gone seriously wrong with our society ....
This is so weird, I mean, mee pok tah means mee pok dry. does he not sell the soup variant as well?
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this gahmen obsession with FTs in the name of the nation's survival are warped policies at best. it is now festering disgruntlement in the educated SGPrean lot, and guess what, in times to come, when LKY indeed calls time on Earth, the MIW will have a torrid time `defending' such policies. this is completely wrong. if singaporeans felt short changed, there must be some truth in the face of reality tt these `well-intended' policies is not sound, or balancely executed. like the `2 is enuf' policy by the Founding Father of Modern Singapore is flawed, only this time, these encompassing FT policies will boomerang and hit those MIWs in the face, hard. By then, there may be no backpedaling this time. For all you know, the mighty LKY may have a direct hand in causing PAP's downfall.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
what the goverment seems to fail to understand is that we cannot play the foreign talents game like other countries do .... we are a Nation, so we cannot become a city of transients like hong kong ... and we are a young, tiny, artificial nation with a nascent national identity, with no "heartland" to speak of .... other much bigger western countries may have gleaming mega cities, their new yorks, their melbournes, their vancouvers which are able to absorb waves after waves of immigrants, but they have their "heartlands" where the national identity, the national psyche, is still forged ... the US has their middle america ... the canadian has their prairie provinces, the aussies has their "bush"... the outbacks ... we have only the HDB estates ..... my point is that our identity is so fragile that it can easily be destroyed in a generation or two .... our capacity to absorb immigrants is much much lower than those western countries listed above .... we thus cannot afford to play the talents game the way they play it ..... this unrestricted, unbridled influx of immigrants is eroding the roots of our society ...
Oh well, don't mind me ... I'm just a young man who went to uni via the poly route ... a non-elite in other words ... and there's the most disheartening thing of all ... if I leave, would I even be counted as a numerical loss for the nation ? Since I am not among the "top 1000 talents" who leave yearly ? ...
I have met my share of Singaporean Scholars overseas ... quitters all ... doctors, researchers, investment bankers, elites ... but what really troubled me the most was running into heartland uncles and aunties overseas, for the elites of any society have always been mobile, they will always be moving to greener pastures regardless .... but when you run into an uncle formerly from bedok selling mee pok tah in BC, then I think something has gone seriously wrong with our society ....
The price to pay for globalisation. Your economy becomes more fluid with the world's and your people too.
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if u listen to barack obama or hilary cli(n)t's campaign speech, all advocates fair trade, but at US's terms. It may be political trash talking to get the votes for the nomination, but i think these will be backed up. both stressed job protection for its citizens and fair wage in line with globalization. a responsible gahmen will try to manage the situation so the affected lot are taken care of. you cannot point the fingers to global changes and therefore, grin n bear it. you will get token help, but you better fend for yourself by undergoing more training, work till you die, etc.
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Originally posted by weiqimun:
if u listen to barack obama or hilary cli(n)t’s campaign speech, all advocates fair trade, but at US’s terms. It may be political trash talking to get the votes for the nomination, but i think these will be backed up.
both stressed job protection for its citizens and fair wage in line with globalization. a responsible gahmen will try to manage the situation so the affected lot are taken care of. you cannot point the fingers to global changes and therefore, grin n bear it. you will get token help, but you better fend for yourself by undergoing more training, work till you die, etc.
All the crap the US can talk. The USA is decaying precisely because of protectionist policies which serve only to buy a bit of time before the eventual slide downwards.You can't stop globalisation. Even China is opening up. That's why our govt does not stop foreigners from entering.
But to give not-so-good foreign talents the edge is ridiculous though. High-time the govt raises its standards to control the influx from displacing local talents.
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Originally posted by SevenEleven:
my son told me after his national service, he's going aboard to study and may decide to settle over there. Not only is Singapore losing a Singaporean, I'll losing my son too.
Its either overseas opportunity is waiting for him or FT competition will be waiting for him. sg is a tiny plot of land with limited opportunities. if you are not connected, born with goldspoon, inherited or struck toto, even if you study well, there is endless possible FT who can challenge your rice bowl. i think better learn to regard the world as your pasture. as per the last info I got, 1 in 3 jobs are taken up by FT who is a foreigner who can be a PR. so easy to come here and apply a job.to say nicer, i must say, like this good for your employer lor. you employer happy, you no matti.
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"if u listen to barack obama or hilary cli(n)t’s campaign speech, all advocates fair trade, but at US’s terms. It may be political trash talking to get the votes for the nomination, but i think these will be backed up.
both stressed job protection for its citizens and fair wage in line with globalization. a responsible gahmen will try to manage the situation so the affected lot are taken care of. you cannot point the fingers to global changes and therefore, grin n bear it. you will get token help, but you better fend for yourself by undergoing more training, work till you die, etc."
Can we import these 2 foreign talent? i believe that they'll cost cheaper probably half a million per year?
"leegaporean" is too costly and is thus uncompetitive.
so we must import these foreign talent to have him replace to give us a competitive edge over the rising cost of "garment" and at the same time lower the cost of the ppl too.
and i'm pretty much 100% sure that singaporean rights will be protected by them
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Originally posted by Fatum:
if that is the case, then I'd say the goverment should make clear how they discern these "scholars" to be as such ... it gives me no great confidence that they have to be sponsored for foundation courses in Maths (maths !?!?! ... have you ever met a chinese who's bad at maths ? ), I'll bite for the English course perhaps, but Maths ? ... something is wrong with these "scholars" here ....
I am sure that not all 3 or 4 As at A levels students in Singapore are eligible for, or got, scholarships ... and the benchmark for these overseas "scholars" is not widely known ... are these really the "exceptional" students they are made out to be ? ... my point is ... wouldn't the money spent on these scholars be better spent on other subsidizing local students instead of giving a free cushioned ride for a growing number of "foreign talents" ? ...
you do bring in very compelling point about free rides being given out by US universities, but then again, most of these universities are private institutions with their own huge endowment funds, not publicly funded universities, like NTU ... these private universities do not use tax-payer's money for the free rides ... Harvard and stanford and cornell and MIT have their own respective pool of endownment funds, what they do with that money is up to them, but our universities are not just publicly funded institutions, for a small country like ours, they are also National Institutions, they do have an obligation to address their primary mission of nurturing OUR native talents before casting their nets further ... that's why I still find it entirely unacceptable that we have honours students like fudgie here giving tuition to earn his keep and bus fare while foreign students get a free ride through school ....
Singapore's circumstances are unique, we cannot play this talents game the way the west is playing it, as I see it, rather than addressing the hemorrhage of our own people overseas, we are in effect acclerating it, replacing those who left with transients who treat Singapore like a small, cramped hotel .... we are not building the foundations of the future here, we are eroding our national identity ! ........
You still missed out the first point of: it is your achievements before entering uni that matters to them, and not after. The same goes for any other scholarships in any country, be it a public or private company scholarship.
Regarding your point:
wouldn't the money spent on these scholars be better spent on other subsidizing local students instead of giving a free cushioned ride for a growing number of "foreign talents"
Let's just say... if you had not had "great achievements" before entering uni, what bargaining chips do you have in an application? These foreign scholars had the bargaining chip; it is just whether they treasure it by contributing hard enough.Let's say you are a late bloomer, doing well only in uni... There are still many other scholarships around to apply; it is just whether you are aware of them.
That said, I still have to agree that not all foreign scholars are as good as they are made out to be. I'm confident of thrashing a great deal with ease, be it on the exam papers, at work, in the society or in life.
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Maybe the PRC Chinese's parents are some important people in China.
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then they should be able to pay for the fee. why using nation monies for 'feeding' the foreigners?
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... you all complain so much, useless one...
... take action; study abroad and don't return...
... the thick skinned & numbed skulled "government" will not see the problems they're creating, they will only make U-turns after sh|t has hit the fan...
... so let sh|t hit the fan...!
... this Foreign Talent policy of theirs is no differet from their Stop at Two policy decades ago... problem with them is that it takes decades & generations of damages before they realize they need to make a U-turn on their policies... imagine, they can still think they deserves Million Dollars salaries.... tsk tsk tsk...
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Originally posted by eagle:
You still missed out the first point of: it is your achievements before entering uni that matters to them, and not after. The same goes for any other scholarships in any country, be it a public or private company scholarship.
Regarding your point:
wouldn't the money spent on these scholars be better spent on other subsidizing local students instead of giving a free cushioned ride for a growing number of "foreign talents"
Let's just say... if you had not had "great achievements" before entering uni, what bargaining chips do you have in an application? These foreign scholars had the bargaining chip; it is just whether they treasure it by contributing hard enough.Let's say you are a late bloomer, doing well only in uni... There are still many other scholarships around to apply; it is just whether you are aware of them.
That said, I still have to agree that not all foreign scholars are as good as they are made out to be. I'm confident of thrashing a great deal with ease, be it on the exam papers, at work, in the society or in life.
I believe I answered that with my first two paragraphs ... I repeat, it gives me no great confidence about the abilities of these "scholars" when they need to go foundation courses in Maths ! .... and our famously calculative goverment seems to be hedging on long odds here on students who need foundation courses while not all A'level students with great results get a free ride via a fully paid scholarship ... I am sure the average 3 or 4 A's JC student need not go for any foundation courses in English and Math .... Are these local students not good enough to merit a free ride too, based on their prior performance ? ... from a book making point of view, these local students would make lower risk "investments", don't you agree ? ... or is it really about the bell curve alone ? ... a smart foreigner is worth more than a dumber Singaporean ? ...
It is true enough that in almost any place in life, it's former performance that gets you in ... but then, this is not really about giving scholars a free ride in our universities, but about whether Singaporeans are getting the right priorities in our system. It may difficult to refute the economic logic of my last sentence in the previous paragraph, but I am deeply disturbed by this elitist attitude ... the powers-that-be has always been fascinated by elitism and eugenics and what not, but can our society really be stratified into the elites and the peasants and still be coherent as a nation ? ... and now we are competing against the "elites" of the world ... ... if we are not even able to compete on equal terms against the world on our home ground (worse, probably, with reservist duties, annuities to fund, etc) ... what the point of this whole excercise then ? ....
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You still missed out the first point of: it is your achievements before entering uni that matters to them, and not after. The same goes for any other scholarships in any country, be it a public or private company scholarship.
And this brings us to the point... if they did well, they need foundation courses for what? If I'm not mistaken, whether polytechnic or uni, you have to pass your English and Maths to enter any of our courses here.
Elsewhere, the same logic applies. You won't be able to apply to an Australian uni with your Maths failing. Sure you maybe able to enter, but they ask you to go to a community college, get your Maths up to par then they let in to the uni.
I don't see why some foreign talents are given this exception, when Singaporeans students who fail the above 2 subjects will not be given any chance.
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Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:
And this brings us to the point... if they did well, they need foundation courses for what? If I'm not mistaken, whether polytechnic or uni, you have to pass your English and Maths to enter any of our courses here.
Elsewhere, the same logic applies. You won't be able to apply to an Australian uni with your Maths failing. Sure you maybe able to enter, but they ask you to go to a community college, get your Maths up to par then they let in to the uni.
I don't see why some foreign talents are given this exception, when Singaporeans students who fail the above 2 subjects will not be given any chance.
Have you ever tried studying any of your subjects in any other language other than English? Say for example, in Chinese? Most likely no right? And do you know all the basic technical maths terms in chinese?
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Originally posted by Fatum:
I believe I answered that with my first two paragraphs ... I repeat, it gives me no great confidence about the abilities of these "scholars" when they need to go foundation courses in Maths ! .... and our famously calculative goverment seems to be hedging on long odds here on students who need foundation courses while not all A'level students with great results get a free ride via a fully paid scholarship ... I am sure the average 3 or 4 A's JC student need not go for any foundation courses in English and Math .... Are these local students not good enough to merit a free ride too, based on their prior performance ? ... from a book making point of view, these local students would make lower risk "investments", don't you agree ? ... or is it really about the bell curve alone ? ... a smart foreigner is worth more than a dumber Singaporean ? ...
It is true enough that in almost any place in life, it's former performance that gets you in ... but then, this is not really about giving scholars a free ride in our universities, but about whether Singaporeans are getting the right priorities in our system. It may difficult to refute the economic logic of my last sentence in the previous paragraph, but I am deeply disturbed by this elitist attitude ... the powers-that-be has always been fascinated by elitism and eugenics and what not, but can our society really be stratified into the elites and the peasants and still be coherent as a nation ? ... and now we are competing against the "elites" of the world ... ... if we are not even able to compete on equal terms against the world on our home ground (worse, probably, with reservist duties, annuities to fund, etc) ... what the point of this whole excercise then ? ....
As mentioned above, try doing a student exchange in China or any other foreign language countries while in NUS, and you will see how hard it is to pick up technical terms in foreign languages.
With regards to 3As and 4As students, there are many whom I know got great scholarships. There are also 3As and 4As students who falter and fall out of university. Yet there are Bs students who excel, or as in the case of my friend, quitted NUS in the first sem, went out wrote a software that sells and is now a millionaire, albeit residing in Australia. Hence, it is never possible to judge based on A level results.
The point here is, former results do count. Whose problem is it if the student is not himself actively looking for sponsorship? Do know how how many interviews I have failed before landing one scholarship?
Regarding local students, I'm sure you also understand that local students receive tuition grants without any bond from the government, whereas PRs will have to serve a 3 year bond. In addition, international students pay the full price. Where else in the world can you have uni sch fees of 6k a year?
And have you speaked with the PRC scholars on how they feel about the bond? There are stories on how when they go back to China, everything feels different, they look and sound different from the locals there after their many years here, and it is hard for them to get a foothold in China after their bond is finished. Also, being away for a long time from your homeland is never easy.
Sure, Singapore is too elitist. Although I believe I can compete with these foreign students easily, I don't foresee myself doing that in the future, but rather, managing and controlling these "talents".