Malaysia Election 08
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No, Malaysia isn't any more democratic or freer than us. It is that the people are so fed up with the govt that they just want to vote it out.
That is true. Add the blatant corruption, incompetence, the NEP,etc which exists at all levels of governance. How democratic, free and how moral it is but a personal point of view. Let`s be frank. An example is the NEP. The NEP will never be abolished in the near and long term. Do that and you`ll lose the malay votes. PAS will not do it. Keadilan will not do it. And DAP does`nt have the credibility being a mainly chinese based party.
IMO, the election results have got nothing to do with the shallow ideals of democracy than the simple fact that the people are fed up with the myriad of problems which have been cropping up; inflation, Hinduraf, corruption,etc . 4-5years is not enough for the BA to do anything substantial. Ba will most likely lose these states just like it lost Terrenganu in the last election. Bn just needs to up the ante with respect to domestic incentives.
The folks from BA do not have the credentials the Bn folks have with respect to governance and are no less corrupted, extreme, etc. They`ve been there and they have played the game of the day. For example, this year it was Hishammudin who was waving the keris. Who was the most extreme about Malay rights just one and half decade ago? Answer: Anwar Ibrahim. Even Mad-hatter was concerned in bringing in a fireband. Look at him now. Oh, how soon people forget.
Really, it`s all yawn to me. Same racial and restrictive politics but different faces. Who is freer? Who is`nt? Comparing Singapore to Malaysia is like comparing apples to oranges. At the end of the day, it comes down to people, leaders and capability. You have that, you`ll do well.
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Frankly, i pity non-muslims in places like Kedah, Kelantan, etc. Get ready for muslim hudud laws. Remember not to hold your spouse`s hands in case the religious police comes along. That`s democracy for you.
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I remember last time when the PSB won the election in Sabah, because the difference is very minimal only, so after BN "persuade" a few elected people to switch side, BN within a few days after the election take back Sabah again.
I wonder if the same thing can happen this time. You see, BN has a very slight victory in Terengganu and Negeri Sembilan, if the opposition manage to convince some of them to "leave the dark side", then they can reform the state government. But likewise, BN can do the same trick at higher success rate in Perak and Selangor as well.
But actually ah, they still need to look at the long term, how to make the people happy. The Chen Shui Bian in Taiwan is really a guru of election, but due to his integrity problem and incapable of ruling the country, he still become so unpopular. I won't surprised if he go jail after stepping down.
Latest news : DAP's candidate not able to become the head of Perak state government because according to the constitution, only bumi can become the state head.
Let's see if Anwar can become the next PM. hehe. Just my dream. He is neither an extremist nor father in law of an racist extremist.
Just a question, anyone of you still have the idea of reuniting with Malaysia again after seeing so many existing and potential dangers? haha. sounds ridiculous, but this is what I heard also.
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Just a question, anyone of you still have the idea of reuniting with Malaysia again after seeing so many existing and potential dangers?
In politics there is always danger.
Surrounded by enemies, one wrong move and you will be wiped out.
Singapore also no difference, just different tactics.
Here is lawsuits and bankruptcy and ISD.
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Just a question, anyone of you still have the idea of reuniting with Malaysia again after seeing so many existing and potential dangers?
Do you want Singapore to to be ruled by a turban wearing mullah? answer your question did i?
In politics there is always danger.
Surrounded by enemies, one wrong move and you will be wiped out.
Singapore also no difference, just different tactics.
Here is lawsuits and bankruptcy and ISD.
I`d like to add to that. It is the case everywhere. The tactics differ. In America, you can have the popular vote(the most number of votes) and yet still not become president.
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Malaysian politics is dangerous.
If UMNO were to lose political power. There will be blood shed (the likes of May 13, 1969). The victims will mostly be the non-Malays, as the law enforcement will protect the Malays and not the non-Malays. Politically correct hints of this have been given. The Chinese and Indian political parties in the coalition BN knows this. Thats why their leaders support the BN.
The present vote swing is the results of cross purposes.
The Indians and Chinese wants more "rights" or at least less discrimination.
The Malays wants more privileges, or at least their status quo to remain, ie more discrimination to the non-Malays.
Abdullah Ahmad Badawi is being squeezed between a hard place and a hard rock.
For those who suvive, the democratic exercise would be worth it. A few hundred lives for the greater good. Provided good comes out of it.
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The victims will mostly be the non-Malays, as the law enforcement will protect the Malays and not the non-Malays. Politically correct hints of this have been given. The Chinese and Indian political parties in the coalition BN knows this. Thats why their leaders support the BN.
Another view:
Najib is welcomed to be the next PM for all I care. In fact, if Najib did become the next PM then he will be a very good corrupt target for the Malaysian people to shoot at and condemn and so strengthen the hands of the opposition.
The most significant point of this election is that the Chinese and the Indians are no longer terrified of being slaughtered if they voted against the UMNO and the BN. Many Chinese have been terrified by MCA who constantly frighten them with the threat that if they voted against it and the BN, then the Malay thugs would go amok and slaughter them en masse. But now they can see that there is no slaughter and they will understand that time has changed and the Malay can no longer kill the Chinese at their whim. Both Singapore and China are much stronger now and America is much weaker. And American sentiment is against the Islamists and will be happy if the Chinese and the Singaporeans slap dowm the Malays if they dared to kill the ethnic Chinese. And this will emboden the Chinese to be more assertive in the future election to vote for politicians who will more closely represent their interests and fight for them in the parliament. So this will quickly spell the demise of MCA, the UMNO lapdog, which has been selling out Chinese interests for the last 50 years as the Chinese pick and choose honest representatives to represent them. And Malaysia as a nation can only benefit as equality and justice pave the way to a more dynamic and prosperous nation.
But the road to full equality and justice is obviously a long one. And the people must persevere as there will inevitably be many discouraging times ahead. But for now the moment belongs to those who have called for replacement of corrution and injustice and inequality with equality, justice, and prosperity.http://asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1090&Itemid=31
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I hope that the time of political thuggery in Malaysia is over.
I believe that the top leaders of UMNO do not condone violence. But as in all political hierarchy, the lower levels are unpredictable.
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Originally posted by Skye2:
Frankly, i pity non-muslims in places like Kedah, Kelantan, etc. Get ready for muslim hudud laws. Remember not to hold your spouse`s hands in case the religious police comes along. That`s democracy for you.
i sincerely do not think PAS will implement it in 1 broad sweep. they know better if they want to be in power for the long run.
even in kelantan, i doubt it. it may have elements of it, but it will not be a full blown one.
though one form the state government, it is not a free reign.
i think you are either over-reacting or you want to get into a one/lop-sided discussion on this (which I will not partake henceforth).
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i sincerely do not think PAS will implement it in 1 broad sweep. they know better if they want to be in power for the long run.
even in kelantan, i doubt it. it may have elements of it, but it will not be a full blown one.
though one form the state government, it is not a free reign.
i think you are either over-reacting or you want to get into a one/lop-sided discussion on this (which I will not partake henceforth).
But they will. One needs to look at Kelantan. Different queues for men and women. No gambling dens. Restrictions on alcohol comsumption, sale of non-halal food, pork, etc. In some parts of Selangor, you already have religious police on patrol. An idea germinated by the Malay constituents. This is hardly an over-reaction. These are things which have happened. So much for democracy.
PAS would have no qualms installing such policies over time as thier main constituents are malays; malays in the belt states who are very much attuned with conservative Islam. Pity the non-muslims to leave under such restrictions.
To the contrary, it is you who are under-reacting. Too much poo about idealist concepts is very misleading and a far cry from the reality on the ground.
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btw, do you all think the singapore's media report on malaysia is less restrained? headline like `malaysia politics turn upside down' , etc. is something which i think it would never used on its own end. just compare it with the headlines on mat selamat's debacle by our national media. i know there are separate topics, but the choice of words on the latter is (definitely) more restrained.
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I hope that the time of political thuggery in Malaysia is over.
I believe that the top leaders of UMNO do not condone violence. But as in all political hierarchy, the lower levels are unpredictable.
Hardly the case. Malaysia has entered a new phase of uncertainty with race, religion, etc as the main issues of the day. You will see it in all its colours. Who will win at the end of the day? The majority Malays of course. The constituents who voted in the Opposition would have to live with thier decisions for the next 4-5 years. BN`s machinery, in particular, will start humming soon to feed the anti-malay hysteria among Malay and non-malay voters. At the end of the day, it will always be about race and religion in Malaysia. Malaysian Malays will never let go of political power. It is thier single biggest greatest fear. The recent election results are just slap on the wrist of UMNO to do more for the Malays and face up to the recent issues affecting Malaysia.
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Originally posted by Skye2:
But they will. One needs to look at Kelantan. Different queues for men and women. No gambling dens. Restrictions on alcohol comsumption, sale of non-halal food, pork, etc. In some parts of Selangor, you already have religious police on patrol. An idea germinated by the Malay constituents. This is hardly an over-reaction. These are things which have happened. So much for democracy.
PAS would have no qualms installing such policies over time as thier main constituents are malays; malays in the belt states who are very much attuned with conservative Islam. Pity the non-muslims to leave under such restrictions.
To the contrary, it is you who are under-reacting. Too much poo about idealist concepts is very misleading and a far cry from the reality on the ground.
i have chinese relatives living in kelantan for years and never once have i heard that they felt restrictive. i don't think that there is a shortage of pork in where they live that they are complaining as well.
i have not been to kelantan to experience that and see for myself that whatever PAS has implemented as you listed as something i would find `restrictive'. are you from kelantan or have you been there yourself to `see' for yourself, or are you just quoting off news article you read?
btw, can hudud laws be applicable to non-muslim? i.e. if a chinese steals, his right hand goes? i am not sure but i can sure check with my well versed muslim friends.
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i have chinese relatives living in kelantan for years and never once have i heard that they felt restrictive. i don't think that there is a shortage of pork in where they live that they are complaining as well.
I have been to kelantan as well. Are you sure? How many shops can sell alcohol? Can you gamble in the open? Can you operate night-clubs? Can you hold concerts freely? Surely, you have been shopping. Can your wife queue with you in a single queue? As for the pork, who do you need to see to get approval? why is that even necessary in the first place? no restrictions?
The hudud laws are not favoured by moderate muslims. In fact, many shun them. It has already been reported in the newspapers that Malay singaporean couples have been hauled up for questioning for holding hands in Kelantan. An arm lost for stealing an apple? Fair? Democratic? Moral? Spare me your drivel about democracy.
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Originally posted by Skye2:
I have been to kelantan as well. Are you sure? How many shops can sell alcohol? Can you gamble in the open? Can you operate night-clubs? Can you hold concerts freely? Surely, you have been shopping. Can your wife queue with you in a single queue? As for the pork, who do you need to see to get approval? why is that even necessary in the first place? no restrictions?
The hudud laws are not favoured by moderate muslims. In fact, many shun them. It has already been reported in the newspapers that Malay singaporean couples have been hauled up for questioning for holding hands in Kelantan. An arm lost for stealing an apple? Fair? Democratic? Moral? Spare me your drivel about democracy.
not spieling about democracy here....
can singapore gamble in the open? can u sell pork in singapore without approval or permit?
is hudud law applicable to non-muslims?
these are my questions.
and no need to get excited here.
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not spieling about democracy here....
can singapore gamble in the open? can u sell pork in singapore without approval or permit?
is hudud law applicable to non-muslims?
Not at all. Just being helpful on clearing up issues on theory and reality.
Chinese new year. Go around. See how many people are playing mahjong. Can you do that in the open in Kelantan?
Oh, maybe i did`nt explain clearly. The sale of pork is under strict control with unofficial quotas set by the Kelantan government. Same goes with alcohol.
I am not clear on the extent of the applicability of such laws. But I am aware of a few. Here`s some examples;
Proselytizing of Muslims by members of other religions is not technically prohibited by federal law. It is however prohibited in Kelantan and can lead to lengthy jail sentences and many strokes of the rotan (whipping). Most Christian and a few other religious groups in Malaysia put a standard disclaimer on literature and advertisements stating "For non-Muslims only".
Shari'ah law counts the evidence of non-Muslims and women as worth only half that of Muslim men in legal courts, in some cases discounting their testimonies altogether. Particularly controversial is Section 9 (2) of a recent Shari'ah Bill proposed by PAS which requires a female rape victim to provide four male Muslim witnesses to ensure a conviction. The victim could face 80 lashes for making slanderous allegations if her case cannot be proved, and if she is found to be pregnant she may even be charged with adultery, a crime punishable by stoning to death according to the Shari'ah.
I have already given you the example on the different queues for male and females at shopping centres. Again, no affect on non muslims?
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Congratulation to BN and Mr Abdullah Ahmad Badawi for winning in the Malaysia GE. I have no doubt that the UMNO will reviewed the issues raised by the electorates and come up with constructive policies for continued peace, prosperity and progress for Malaysia. I am also confident that BN will win back the two third majority in the next elcection as Malaysia's economy will continue to grow in an astonishing pace under the strong and capable leadership of Mr Abdullah Badawi.
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Originally posted by Skye2:
I have been to kelantan as well. Are you sure? How many shops can sell alcohol? Can you gamble in the open? Can you operate night-clubs? Can you hold concerts freely? Surely, you have been shopping. Can your wife queue with you in a single queue? As for the pork, who do you need to see to get approval? why is that even necessary in the first place? no restrictions?
The hudud laws are not favoured by moderate muslims. In fact, many shun them. It has already been reported in the newspapers that Malay singaporean couples have been hauled up for questioning for holding hands in Kelantan. An arm lost for stealing an apple? Fair? Democratic? Moral? Spare me your drivel about democracy.
btw, not feeling restrictive is not the same as `no restrictions' as you implied. pls be clear about it. -
We should also bear in mind the sufferings of moderate muslims who would not want to have anything to do with the ancient laws enacted several centuries ago when they know for a fact that thier religion at heart is a progressive one. Ask muslims in singapore if they like hudud laws? But thier cries are drowned by the great clarion call for greater conservatism led by PAS and thier running dogs.
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btw, not feeling restrictive is not the same as `no restrictions' as you implied. pls be clear about it.
And just because they never say it, does`nt mean it is`nt there. pls be clear about that. What happened to the free world?
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democracy...damned if you do, damned if you don't~
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democracy...damned if you do, damned if you don't~
Lol. true. Anyway, my point is that the act or exercise of electing a new party through a democratic process does not necessarily mean that civil liberties at the end of the day is adhered. In fact, it may go the other way in that people have a lot more restrictions. At the end of the day, what matters is really what happens on the ground; the daily lives of people in general.
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PAS to extend Islamic-oriented policies to other states it now controls
By Zainudin Afandi, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 09 March 2008 2345 hrsMALAYSIA: Malaysian opposition Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party (PAS) said it will extend Islamic-oriented policies, which it now implements in Kelantan, to other states that are now under its control.
But PAS said such policies may take on different forms due to the multi-racial nature of these states.
PAS President Abdul Hadi Awang also assured that these policies will not affect the religious beliefs and customary practices of non-Muslims.
He said: "We will discuss with our non-Malay friends who have their own set of beliefs. What is allowed in their religion will not to be disturbed. That is their right. The freedom of religion, the freedom to perform their daily customs, which are allowed by their religion but prohibited in Islam, we cannot disturb them. That's their right which are guaranteed in Islamic law".
Mr Abdul Hadi added that PAS will scrutinise the projects launched by the central government in states under its control to ensure that they are "free of corruption and other unfair practices".
He said: "All the agreements which have been signed by the central government and state government which are viewed as positive will be continued. These projects will be examined. Is there corruption, nepotism and cronyism involved? Are they projects of public interest or meant to benefit only certain people?" - CNA/ac -
Those policies listed were taken up when PAS had the absolute singular majority in both the Kelantan and Trengganu State Assemblies. Based on yesterday's results, the legislatures of Perak and Selangor will be dominated by the opposition coalition - comprising of PAS, PKR and the DAP (the latter two being parties who run upon a multi-racial platform). As such, if the deliberations result in PAS taking the Mentri Besar post in Perak, they will certainly have to accomodate the secular based policies of the PKR and the DAP. Ideologues though they may be, but I'm sure they know that the key motivation after winning an election is to prepare for the next, and for any future electoral success, all three parties have to exhibit that their 'alliance' is not one of conveniance, but one which will work out for the general electorate as a whole in the future. It'll be interesting to see if history will repeat itself again and the coalition is one of conveniance or that this episode of Malaysian Politics open a new chapter for the country.
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Originally posted by Obama:
Congratulation to BN and Mr Abdullah Ahmad Badawi for winning in the Malaysia GE. I have no doubt that the UMNO will reviewed the issues raised by the electorates and come up with constructive policies for continued peace, prosperity and progress for Malaysia. I am also confident that BN will win back the two third majority in the next elcection as Malaysia’s economy will continue to grow in an astonishing pace under the strong and capable leadership of Mr Abdullah Badawi.
i never used any foul words before in sgF as far as I can remember but if u really meant what u said instead of being sarcastic, i would say
FUCK YOU!