Is the pap really doing a bad job?

• silverng

  2 Mar 08, 18:43

  Saw many threads here critising the PAP government mainly for the foreign talent and gst increase.

  While I am not a great supporter of PAP, I will like to offer some perspective on these 2 issues.

  GST increase

  - I think increasing GST is really no need for us to have such a big hoo ha reaction towards it. Afterall, prices including GST will increase. Moreover, the government will be giving us money too from the funds generated from increase in gst

  Foreign talent

  - Low wage foreigner workers doing jobs which singaporeans do not want such as construction worker etc.

  I think there is no need for us to be jealous of them as they are doing jobs which we singaporeans do not want.

  -High wage workers doing professional jobs such as Accountants etc.

  While we maybe angry that they are here to snatch jobs from us, why not think about it in this way.

  When these people come to singapore to work, being high wage earners, they will spend alot of money on food,education, rental or some may want to buy houses, leisure etc. When they spend money, these will generate the economy of Singapore which will in turn create more jobs for us.

  Moreover, these foreigners maybe earning alot of money but after deducting all the expenses, they do not really have that much money left.

  So why be jealous of them?

   

  The only thing that I am not happy with these foreign talents is the government sponsoring their education fees in polytechnics and university which is alot of money

   

   

• FireIce

  2 Mar 08, 18:46

  depends on whether u choose to see the good or the bad
  
  but then, human is like tt one lah
  oni see bad loh
  
  u do 10 good things, ppl think is �所当然
  when u do 1 bad thing, ppl kpkb for 10 years

• eagle

  2 Mar 08, 18:51

  Originally posted by FireIce:

  depends on whether u choose to see the good or the bad
  
  but then, human is like tt one lah
  oni see bad loh
  
  u do 10 good things, ppl think is �所当然
  when u do 1 bad thing, ppl kpkb for 10 years

  ya lor ya lor.

• Reddressman.

  2 Mar 08, 20:23

  Originally posted by silverng:

  Saw many threads here critising the PAP government mainly for the foreign talent and gst increase.

  While I am not a great supporter of PAP, I will like to offer some perspective on these 2 issues.

  GST increase

  - I think increasing GST is really no need for us to have such a big hoo ha reaction towards it. Afterall, prices including GST will increase. Moreover, the government will be giving us money too from the funds generated from increase in gst

  Foreign talent

  - Low wage foreigner workers doing jobs which singaporeans do not want such as construction worker etc.

  I think there is no need for us to be jealous of them as they are doing jobs which we singaporeans do not want.

  -High wage workers doing professional jobs such as Accountants etc.

  While we maybe angry that they are here to snatch jobs from us, why not think about it in this way.

  When these people come to singapore to work, being high wage earners, they will spend alot of money on food,education, rental or some may want to buy houses, leisure etc. When they spend money, these will generate the economy of Singapore which will in turn create more jobs for us.

  Moreover, these foreigners maybe earning alot of money but after deducting all the expenses, they do not really have that much money left.

  So why be jealous of them?

   

  The only thing that I am not happy with these foreign talents is the government sponsoring their education fees in polytechnics and university which is alot of money

   

   

  
  Well said, Mr SilverNg !!!

   

  you must be the best talent sg has.

   

  fyi, most people are definitely not pissed at construction or factory jobs going ft.

  they are pissed at high paying jobs going to fts, i suppose. here by high pay i only mean jobs that are 4,5,6,7,8 to 10 K a month, at least.

   

  but this is my opine gathered on the ground.

   

  you know right, i am your supporter.

  While I am not a great supporter of PAP, I will like to offer some perspective on these 2 issues. that is all. like you.

   

  we need to keep lo profile.  hee hee ....

• ceecookie

  2 Mar 08, 20:26

  and not to mention corruption

• Reddressman.

  2 Mar 08, 20:30

  Originally posted by FireIce:

  depends on whether u choose to see the good or the bad
  
  but then, human is like tt one lah
  oni see bad loh
  
  u do 10 good things, ppl think is �所当然
  when u do 1 bad thing, ppl kpkb for 10 years

  eh, now we know you better.

   

  shhhhh....lo profile...

• eagle

  2 Mar 08, 20:35

  Originally posted by Reddressman.:

  
  Well said, Mr SilverNg !!!

   

  you must be the best talent sg has.

   

  fyi, most people are definitely not pissed at construction or factory jobs going ft.

  they are pissed at high paying jobs going to fts, i suppose. here by high pay i only mean jobs that are 4,5,6,7,8 to 10 K a month, at least.

   

  but this is my opine gathered on the ground.

   

  you know right, i am your supporter.

  While I am not a great supporter of PAP, I will like to offer some perspective on these 2 issues. that is all. like you.

   

  we need to keep lo profile.  hee hee ....

  I can easily point out a few fresh uni graduate friends with starting salary of 4k. Even someone with a good degree going into SCDF will already be a captain (starting rank) and with monthly salary of $3.76k.

  My take: FTs earning 4k-6k could earn more.

  But then, we still need them for economic growth

• sir_peanuts

  2 Mar 08, 22:49

  to be fair, i think they've done a good job and is still doing ok.

  but the system that they continue to function under does not guarantee that we get to change in the event that they screw up, and this is dangerous.

• 333225520

  2 Mar 08, 23:46

  Originally posted by eagle:

  I can easily point out a few fresh uni graduate friends with starting salary of 4k. Even someone with a good degree going into SCDF will already be a captain (starting rank) and with monthly salary of $3.76k.

  My take: FTs earning 4k-6k could earn more.

  But then, we still need them for economic growth

  
  And I know a lot more fresh uni grad earning only 2k++.

• Arena

  3 Mar 08, 01:13

  Fresh grad earning 2K ++ is good liao lor to be honest...

  cuz they hav no exp... but once they proved their worth and hav enuff exp, their pay jump will be huge...

   

  i came across uni grad who cant do work that a poly grad can...

  so that explains all....

   

  having a paper qualification means u hav passed the exam and hav adequate knowledge... tts academic..

  to excel in work is diff, u need inspiration and perspiration

• kramnave

  3 Mar 08, 01:35

  Originally posted by 333225520:

  
  And I know a lot more fresh uni grad earning only 2k++.

  A few years back it was $1600-1800.

  FTs are here to fill jobs that require experience and jobs that we lack talent in. They are not here to fight with fresh grads. A couple of years ago i remember someone kpkb about ang moh rig workers earning 10K+ even if they had no qualifications. Thing is these people risk their life/limbs working on the rigs for many many years, starting from the bottom..do we have people of their experience here or do we have students aispiring to be roustabouts on oil rigs and working their way up ?

• eagle

  3 Mar 08, 01:39

  Originally posted by 333225520:

  
  And I know a lot more fresh uni grad earning only 2k++.

  How many is a lot?

  I know for sure that more than half (likely to be much more) of the fresh uni engine grads will earn at least $3k monthly, from both NUS and NTU. That sums up to a few thousand pple.

  Not to mention that the average monthly wage for SMU students for the previous batch was greater than $3k

• eagle

  3 Mar 08, 01:41

  Originally posted by kramnave:

  A few years back it was $1600-1800.

  FTs are here to fill jobs that require experience and jobs that we lack talent in. They are not here to fight with fresh grads. A couple of years ago i remember someone kpkb about ang moh rig workers earning 10K+ even if they had no qualifications. Thing is these people risk their life/limbs working on the rigs for many many years, starting from the bottom..do we have people of their experience here or do we have students aispiring to be roustabouts on oil rigs and working their way up ?

  If that was the case a few years back, wages for fresh grads have definitely risen by a lot.

• Caitaokue

  3 Mar 08, 01:46

  Singapore is trying to model after Switzerland.  Citizens of switzerland are migrates from all parts of Europe. This policy is both for economic and security reasons.  China will soon take over Japan as the second largest economy. There must be a blend of their breeds or settlers here in Singapore to prepare for more initimate relationship.

  Singapore and China are very close right from the start.  Have you ever questioned why we learnt the Simplified Chinese includes of Traditional Chinese used by Hong Kong and Taiwan?  Why Singaporean never need a Visa when traveling to China while the rest of the world need?

  I am not from the government.  But rest assured my fellow Singaporeans, one thing we can be comforted our government is not stupid.

• kramnave

  3 Mar 08, 01:53

  Originally posted by eagle:

  If that was the case a few years back, wages for fresh grads have definitely risen by a lot.

  Things moved very fast in Singapore for the past couple of years. At one time STI doubled its value, more businesses set up base in Singapore etc. The boom in the finance sector was very apparent. Investment banks shifted operations to Singapore and you see more people wanting to go into wealth management as well. In fact, 3/4 of the people i know are either Personal Bankers/Financial Consultants/Relationship Managers/Private Bankers. Some started after poly/uni or switched lines.

• mancha

  3 Mar 08, 01:57

  Foreign Talent is a concocted term. The US called these workers migrant workers. It is pronounced with a bit of detachment. Here the lable is used so that it goes down well with the citizens. Foreign talents, sounds much better than migrant workers.

  Tens of thousands jobs were reported created last year, and it was declared most of the jobs went to Singaporeans. Recently it was declared 61% of the jobs created went to foreigners.

  How is it that our citizens are not talented?

  Is it that India and China, even the Philippines and Vietnam, have got the right education policy, 10 years ago?

  Our middle managers studied the wrong courses, and are now taxi drivers, hospital attendants.

• bryanw

  3 Mar 08, 02:00

  US/UK based investment banks such as Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch usually hire only graduates from their own country business schools.

• kramnave

  3 Mar 08, 02:09

  Originally posted by bryanw:

  US/UK based investment banks such as Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch usually hire only graduates from their own country business schools.

  Those that have presence in Singapore hire Singapore graduates as well and of course foreigners who graduate in different countries.

• 333225520

  3 Mar 08, 06:34

  Originally posted by eagle:

  How many is a lot?

  I know for sure that more than half (likely to be much more) of the fresh uni engine grads will earn at least $3k monthly, from both NUS and NTU. That sums up to a few thousand pple.

  Not to mention that the average monthly wage for SMU students for the previous batch was greater than $3k

  
  Sure? Any statistic to back you up? I am equally sure more than half of fresh uni grad earning less then 3k.

• 333225520

  3 Mar 08, 06:42

  Originally posted by eagle:

  If that was the case a few years back, wages for fresh grads have definitely risen by a lot.

  
  That's only what you feel from those surrounding you (depending on which industry you are in). Similarly, my view is from those around me.

  I think its not fair for you to assume that FT is earning less than local and are more experience. Many FT around me are fresh too earning same as local.

• 798

  3 Mar 08, 12:22

  Originally posted by eagle:

  How many is a lot?

  I know for sure that more than half (likely to be much more) of the fresh uni engine grads will earn at least $3k monthly, from both NUS and NTU. That sums up to a few thousand pple.

  Not to mention that the average monthly wage for SMU students for the previous batch was greater than $3k

  
  u sure? most of EE fresh grad can only command as low as $2.3K. not to the one u mentioned.

  try to ask this salary once u graduate n i bet dat no employers r willing to give.

• 798

  3 Mar 08, 12:25

  Originally posted by FireIce:

  depends on whether u choose to see the good or the bad
  
  but then, human is like tt one lah
  oni see bad loh
  
  u do 10 good things, ppl think is �所当然
  when u do 1 bad thing, ppl kpkb for 10 years

  it's the same thing dat a old worker who claimed he served the company for 20 years but who care anyway?

  once he made a mistake like corruption, do u think the company will still keep him?

• bryanw

  3 Mar 08, 12:36

  hi 798

• eagle

  3 Mar 08, 12:42

  Originally posted by 798:

  
  u sure? most of EE fresh grad can only command as low as $2.3K. not to the one u mentioned.

  try to ask this salary once u graduate n i bet dat no employers r willing to give.

  I very sure, I'm in the graduating batch. 2nd lower and below, at least $2.8k for engineering companies.

• silverng

  3 Mar 08, 12:43

  Originally posted by mancha:

   

  Tens of thousands jobs were reported created last year, and it was declared most of the jobs went to Singaporeans. Recently it was declared 61% of the jobs created went to foreigners.

  How is it that our citizens are not talented?

   

  This 1 I agree with you. Too much jobs are given to those foreigners