Who will defend S'pore in view of more students fail to retu
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Haa~ that reminds me....there was once the cook house dog walked by my platoon and our sergent knocked us down for not greeting the dog...Originally posted by Viper52:Oi...don't forget you have to say thank you to the cook some more ok?
Funny happenings? Tekongs like no where else man!
Haa~ thinking of it makes me laugh -
When you going in Shotgun. PES status?Originally posted by Shotgun:Ah yes, tekong. Hope i get BMTC2. hahah. -
Can we conscript those MPs to work free or same rate as NSmen for singapore to serve the nation. It's national service and loyalty they should be talking and hence $$ should not be involved. Lead by example and we will gladly follows.Originally posted by Shotgun:Kyo, You have no idea what it means when u said "conscripting everybody for free govt labor." If u have been reading the news lately, (which I doubt u have), Russian conscripts get drafted to do farm work and work in factories. -
Kyo23...we are talking about getting the best to lead the nation...of course we should pay something befitting of their talent. We are competiting against MNCs and headhunters for these brains who can lead us. Hence we must offer comparable pay.Originally posted by Kyo23:Can we conscript those MPs to work free or same rate as NSmen for singapore to serve the nation. It's national service and loyalty they should be talking and hence $$ should not be involved. Lead by example and we will gladly follows.
It will be utopia if we can get the top of the line men / women to lead the nation and yet at the same time take peanuts for pay. But sadly this is the real world we are talking about. -
Yup, i know that.Originally posted by Rudin:It will be utopia if we can get the top of the line men / women to lead the nation and yet at the same time take peanuts for pay. But sadly this is the real world we are talking about. Sadly, this is the real world you finally see. So with a few hundred dollars a month, you expect to get the top of the line garang men to serve in SAF while the rest of the revenue are diverted elsewhere? E.g. building officer golf club etc -
I agree with you that too much have been spent on ammenities that are frivious and meanless...on the other hand, garangness should not be measured by the pay we are getting...indeed that amount of money we are getting while serving NS is termed as allowance.Originally posted by Kyo23:Yup, i know that. Sadly, this is the real world you finally see. So with a few hundred dollars a month, you expect to get the top of the line garang men to serve in SAF while the rest of the revenue are diverted elsewhere? E.g. building officer golf club etc
Garangness should be interpreted as a willingness on our part to adopt a positive learning attitude to hone the skills neccessary to defend our homeland... -
Kyo23, I think that you might have a rather unpleasant NS experience, and it seems as if you think that 1) the entire experience must be just as 'worthless' for everyone else and 2) the officer / command / NCO corp deserves the blame for your misfortunes and lastly 3) that our govt spends too much on amenities.
I agree with you partly on point 3. Yes it does seem excessive spending all this money building more and stupid golf courses, but such spending should not be equated to an incompetent military structure.
Next, your alleged incompetence of the SAF. Well, no one's perfect, especially us NSFs and even regulars. There will always be dickwits and twits in every organisation. I'm honest to say that in the beginning of my term as an officer, I was caught up in the 'rank and salute' nonsense, which you despise. In retrospect, I have made many errors in the way i handled my men. There were many other ways that I could have done better. But in time, i think i turned out better.
I can still remember how i 'hollanded' my entire platoon cos i cocked up on reading my map and was too scared to admit it was my fault, and blamed the driver instead. Yes it was a shameful thing to do, but mistakes and shit happens.
I've never done it again and I learnt how to so stuff properly.
Just like you prob had problems and encounters with idiots like me when i was all young and rash But you know, it's not the entire organisation that is inapt.
Everone has a part to play in the army. Many of my friends who are A level scholars / poly merit holders also ended up as 'men' but few complained, cos they saw it as part of their NS. Of course there was some resentment about not becoming officers / specialists. But each and every vocation, rank has its diferent lessons to teach.
What the SAF teaches (indirectly) is to learn to survive and to adapt and not to whine about one's position. It's the strengthening of the mind that the SAF taught me the most. So i guess, yes, if you felt worthless and cheap and not doing anything meaningful while in NS, then my sympathies. But the SAF doesnt deserve your generalised criticisms as to its organiational proficiency.
I refuse to believe that you never met anyone in your NS time who made a positive impact on you, regardless of rank or position. -
That's very honorable of you to admit mistake as an officer but don't you think it's abit too late and unfair to the driver who has apparently became your scrapegoat? Have you ever lowered down your self-esteem in camp to apologise to that driver and undo all your wrong instantly? And maybe to the driver who din exposed you, either becos you are an officer or becos he know you are just another NSF who is trying to learn the way out. Even for me, i will sympathy for my own kind in camp but definitely not for those regulars esp officers who are taking in salary, who should do their jobs diligently which i c otherwise. Well, guess a good life with SAF club house and golf club membership is their ultimate aim for signing on.Originally posted by No Frill:your alleged incompetence of the SAF. Well, no one's perfect, especially us NSFs and even regulars. There will always be dickwits and twits in every organisation. I'm honest to say that in the beginning of my term as an officer, I was caught up in the 'rank and salute' nonsense, which you despise. In retrospect, I have made many errors in the way i handled my men. There were many other ways that I could have done better. But in time, i think i turned out better.
I can still remember how i 'hollanded' my entire platoon cos i cocked up on reading my map and was too scared to admit it was my fault, and blamed the driver instead. Yes it was a shameful thing to do, but mistakes and shit happens.
I've never done it again and I learnt how to so stuff properly.
And for your own experiences which you think are beneficial to yourself at the expense of others, do you think you will be less than that if you are exposed to working in real practical world earlier to learn all those proper stuff instead thinking you can command your staffs like recruits to do work for you? Do you think experiences in NS is relevant and applicable in the civilian world where "fuck you" and punishment can work?
Come on lar, everyone know the fact how the entire organisation works. Complaining in camp will only make your life even more miserable amid all those officer pig esp regulars who frequent NCO officer club house. It is only when we are out as civilian that we can start criticing the systems for the sake of our future generations as feedback. If such a system is to be fair to the population as a duty and commitment for those who want stay in singapore, then please include those foreign talent and PRs who's earning big bucks in singapore as well. If GST hike is to be implemented to lower income tax, then please include those rich men esp MPs into the picture when their original reason for exemption no longer stand strong. I would like to see these pple washing the toilet side by side with the next generation at least to boost morale. Lead by example and we will follows.
Just like you prob had problems and encounters with idiots like me when i was all young and rash But you know, it's not the entire organisation that is inapt.
Everone has a part to play in the army. Many of my friends who are A level scholars / poly merit holders also ended up as 'men' but few complained, cos they saw it as part of their NS. Of course there was some resentment about not becoming officers / specialists. But each and every vocation, rank has its diferent lessons to teach.
What the SAF teaches (indirectly) is to learn to survive and to adapt and not to whine about one's position. It's the strengthening of the mind that the SAF taught me the most. So i guess, yes, if you felt worthless and cheap and not doing anything meaningful while in NS, then my sympathies. But the SAF doesnt deserve your generalised criticisms as to its organiational proficiency.
Sorry to disappoint you, i had never encounter any positive or look up on any regular, officer or authority in camp for my NS. None deserve it unless they lead by example. But instead as an example, they took revenge on the new recruits for all the hardship they being thru in their Sispec/OCS courses. And as for those NSF Mens or officer like you, we are all just being conscripted cheaply for 2.5 years till we orded before we can finally get a life. What can you expect? You want to garang for free is your problems. We have better thing to do to improve oneselves i believe instead of wasting time and losing out in the real unfair world where foreign talent is replacing everyone amid the crisis coupled with national problem that threaten the survival of the nation's identity. In the end, we might become the minority protecting a whole lots of rich foreign pple and some local suckers.
I refuse to believe that you never met anyone in your NS time who made a positive impact on you, regardless of rank or position.
Well, all aboves are my personal opinions which you can disagree of course, but it's agreed by me.
[This message has been edited by Kyo23 (edited 23 April 2002).] -
V52, my checkups on May 16th. Estimate around end of year.
Btw, just a question. My checkup on May 16th, then say I need to leave the country on May 22nd, for work. By then do I have to apply for exit permit? Usually how long they take to clear exit permits? -
Yes, I might be a little off, since I'm from the older school of army and they're changing the damn EP rules all the time, but AFAIK after 16 we all need EP if we want to go overseas.Originally posted by Shotgun:V52, my checkups on May 16th. Estimate around end of year.
Btw, just a question. My checkup on May 16th, then say I need to leave the country on May 22nd, for work. By then do I have to apply for exit permit? Usually how long they take to clear exit permits?
EP usually can clear very fast, if you go during school term time, early in the morning, say around 0900-0930, it'll usually take no more than 10-20 mins from application to getting the EP -
Coz its nearer to the jetty? Bookout easier? Wait till you have to wait at the cookhouse. If too crowded have to wait in the sun. Ususally very fast one. 5 mins only. But in the morning. The whole school will be there. All revellie at the same time.Originally posted by Shotgun:Ah yes, tekong. Hope i get BMTC2. hahah. -
Dear Kyo23, I'm sorry to hear that you never anyone worth remembering or being proud of during your army days.
I think it is a trite bit unfair for you to keep bashing the SAF and to keep upholding the civilian sector as the epitomy of all that is virutuous right.
I would venture to say that the civilian sector is so much more ruthless when dealing with its personnel.
As for your query on whether I made my peace with the driver, yes i did, as well as to the entire MT line and later owned up to my CO as well. Of course I got a butt ripping (with extra planta) but I did it.
I think it has a lot to so with personal attitudes on how you view NS, so I guess for you, it was just a period of your life that you wish to forget as quickly as possible or to resent forever.
But don't bring down the entire structure while you're at it.
Yes there are always incompetent officers, specialists and men who might have made your experience with the army unfortunate, but there are always people who have inspired motivated and awed.
I for one, will always cherish my NS time and remember it fondly. It gave me a learning experience that no school or university or civilian organisation could ever provide.
I am proud to have served and will serve my nation always when called upon again. -
You can do it online. www.miw.com.sgOriginally posted by Viper52:Yes, I might be a little off, since I'm from the older school of army and they're changing the damn EP rules all the time, but AFAIK after 16 we all need EP if we want to go overseas.
EP usually can clear very fast, if you go during school term time, early in the morning, say around 0900-0930, it'll usually take no more than 10-20 mins from application to getting the EP
Not more than 5 mins