Singapore's HEAVILY Subsidised Universities.
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can i assume the issue at hand (subsidies) is settled?
because whether the fees are subsidised or not has nothing to do with the quality of education.
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Originally posted by onlooker123:
maurizio13,
I agree with your observation that the term 'heavily subsidised' is subjective.
You have compared the fees in several countries. That is one way to look at it.
But to shed more light on how 'heavy' this subsidy is, perhaps you can also find exactly how much the subsidy from Govt is with regard to University education. A subsidy can be anything from 0.1% to 100%.
Contrast with healthcare, the subsidy figures have been in the papers a lot recently. Eg. C-class ward maximum subsidy is 80%.
Yes.The term "heavily subsidised" is a subjective word.
On the first post, I posted the subsidised fees charged for NUS, SMU, HKU and ANU.
The fees look comparable across the board, although some courses might cost more or less in the comparison.
But the fees don't vary that much.
Fees in other countries are also heavily subsidised.
So what's the logic in something is heavy when it's the same in developed countries?
If A is 1kg and B is 1kg. What's the point of emphasizing that B is heavy?
Both are equally weighted.
Another issue is, how you determine the price of the University education?
Is it a cost plus profit, then subsidy?
e.g.
Cost $100 + Profit $100 - Subsidy $50
or
Is it cost less subsidy?
Cost $100 - Subsidy $50
If it's a cost plus profit less subsidy, the more you charge for profit less the subsidy, you still make profits.
Cost $100 + Profit $200 - Subsidy $100.
Though the subsidy $100 is more than $50 than in previous cases, but profits is at least $100.
All misleading, unless places like NUS can give us a transcript of how they arrive at the cost of education.
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Originally posted by t_a_s:
Local uni, they say, professors are lousy compare to that of USA or Aus. There are many FT lecturers earning cheap salaries, so sch fees must be cheap also, what heavily subsidy nonsense
Well......Like my earlier example, if cost $100 + profits $500 - subsidy $250, they do give out heavy subsidies.
But after deducting from the profits of $500, they still make $250.
Pricing is a tricky issue, can trick the simpletons like .........(I shall not divulge names). deathbait
That's how most retail companies make money, they mark up high, then give you a heavy discount.
At the end of the day, they still make more from you, it's psychological.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Well......Like my earlier example, if cost $100 + profits $500 - subsidy $250, they do give out heavy subsidies.
But after deducting from the profits of $500, they still make $250.
Pricing is a tricky issue, can trick the simpletons like .........(I shall not divulge names). deathbait
That's how most retail companies make money, they mark up high, then give you a heavy discount.
At the end of the day, they still make more from you, it's psychological.
I did some calculations recently.
Supposed I'm retail and I increase my price by 250% from wholesale price. (usually around there)
Then I give 70% discount clearance sale
In the end, 2.5 * 0.7 = 1.75
I still earn 75% -
http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2007/overall_rankings/
Overall
33) NUS
Arts and Humanties
21) NUS
life sciences & biomedicine12) NUS
Natural Sciences
25) NUS
Social Sciences
20) NUS
Technology
10) NUS
Bear in mind NUS is situated in Asia and people tend to be biased against Asia. Indicator doesnt go down well with NUS.
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Seems to me that TS's purpose to create this thread is aim at a single (or 2) word by the government's statement "heavily subsidised".
hmmm... Seems to me you're trying to find an excuse to vent your anger at them.
Sony's advert on Powershot digital camera. = go investigate how "power" is the shot?
Energizer Battery's advert on "longest lasting battery" = go investigate if it's really the longest?
hmmm..............
End of the day if you're going to a local uni, u'll still pay the fees be it whether heavily or lightly subsidised right?
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Originally posted by FirePig:
http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2007/overall_rankings/
Overall
33) NUS
Arts and Humanties
21) NUS
life sciences & biomedicine12) NUS
Natural Sciences
25) NUS
Social Sciences
20) NUS
Technology
10) NUS
Bear in mind NUS is situated in Asia and people tend to be biased against Asia.
That is Times Higher Education survey, the Academic Ranking of World Universities show otherwise.http://www.arwu.org/rank/2007/ARWU2007_Top100.htm
Have a read through their ranking methodology too.
Times Higher Education's survey is heavily reliant on reviews which is subjective (questionaire from respondents),
whereas Academic Ranking of World Universities is more factual relying on Nobel Prizes and Research.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
That is Times Higher Education survey, the Academic Ranking of World Universities show otherwise.http://www.arwu.org/rank/2007/ARWU2007_Top100.htm
Have a read through their ranking methodology too.
Times Higher Education's survey is heavily reliant on reviews which is subjective (questionaire from respondents),
whereas Academic Ranking of World Universities is more factual relying on Nobel Prizes and Research.
All that is required now is to 'buy' more Nobel Laurettes over to NUS.
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Originally posted by FirePig:
http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2007/overall_rankings/
Overall
33) NUS
Arts and Humanties
21) NUS
life sciences & biomedicine12) NUS
Natural Sciences
25) NUS
Social Sciences
20) NUS
Technology
10) NUS
Bear in mind NUS is situated in Asia and people tend to be biased against Asia. Indicator doesnt go down well with NUS.
Can a person place 100% confidence in the Times Higher Education survey?
Abstract:
But we suspect that some Malaysian and Singaporean institutions have lost out because of our increased rigour over voting for one’s own university, and there are no Malaysian universities in this top 200. The two Singaporean universities we list, the National University of Singapore and Nanyang Technological University, have each taken a fall this year. The former is down from 19th last year to 33rd, while Nanyang has gone from 61st to 69th, but there is no doubt that they are both world-class universities in a country that is serious about becoming a world centre for science and technology. (That's why I say a system based on reviews by humans is subject to bias and prejudice. Whereas the ARWU system of ranking is more factual, because it's based on Research and Nobel Prizes won.)
Source: http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=311410
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Originally posted by airgrinder:
Seems to me that TS's purpose to create this thread is aim at a single (or 2) word by the government's statement "heavily subsidised".
hmmm... Seems to me you're trying to find an excuse to vent your anger at them.
Sony's advert on Powershot digital camera. = go investigate how "power" is the shot?
Energizer Battery's advert on "longest lasting battery" = go investigate if it's really the longest?
hmmm..............
End of the day if you're going to a local uni, u'll still pay the fees be it whether heavily or lightly subsidised right?
I just wanted to clarify the extend of the usage of the word "heavily subsidised" by our government.I am discrediting the fact that education is subsidised, but I just disagree with their usage of the adjective "heavily".
I did a comparison of what other Universities charge their citizens, the fees are comparable, some courses we
have lower fees, some courses they have lower fees.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
I just wanted to clarify the extend of the usage of the word "heavily subsidised" by our government.I am discrediting the fact that education is subsidised, but I just disagree with their usage of the adjective "heavily".
I did a comparison of what other Universities charge their citizens, the fees are comparable, some courses we
have lower fees, some courses they have lower fees.
Were the average number of years leading to graduation taken into account?
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the whole issue stems from maurizio's inability to understand what heavy means.
He misreads it as "Heavier"
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Heavy or heavily as compared to what dude?
If one say, deathbait's testicles is heavily weighted.
Heavily weighted as compared to what?
Compared to the other testicles or a feather?
After studying in Australia because of failing to gain entry to NUS, your command of English is still severely lacking.
You sure you studied in Australia, not another non anglophone country?
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Originally posted by eagle:
I did some calculations recently.
Supposed I'm retail and I increase my price by 250% from wholesale price. (usually around there)
Then I give 70% discount clearance sale
In the end, 2.5 * 0.7 = 1.75
I still earn 75%
Have you taken into account fixed overhead such as rental, renovation, staffs salary etc before talking about making 75%?You might want to take a look at the financial statement of FJ Benjamin to get a better understanding of the cost structure of retail business.
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Have you taken into account fixed overhead such as rental, renovation, staffs salary etc before talking about making 75%?You might want to take a look at the financial statement of FJ Benjamin to get a better understanding of the cost structure of retail business.
Maybe I can call Sam up to ask him. -
Originally posted by TCH05:
Have you taken into account fixed overhead such as rental, renovation, staffs salary etc before talking about making 75%?You might want to take a look at the financial statement of FJ Benjamin to get a better understanding of the cost structure of retail business.
Rental I agree
Renovation is fixed cost -> you don't add it in like that
Staff salary can be excluded if you are doing it yourselfYou might as well include electricity bill and water bill. Or delivery of goods. Or payment for security services. Or insurance. Just so many.
So don't need to worry, for I have taken a module on accounting to learn. Have you?
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Originally posted by eagle:
Rental I agree
Renovation is fixed cost -> you don't add it in like that
Staff salary can be excluded if you are doing it yourselfYou might as well include electricity bill and water bill. Or delivery of goods. Or payment for security services. Or insurance. Just so many.
So don't need to worry, for I have taken a module on accounting to learn. Have you?
Actually all of those TCH05 mentioned are fixed cost and to some extend sunk cost. -
Originally posted by maurizio13:
Actually all of those TCH05 mentioned are fixed cost and to some extend sunk cost.Now that you mention it, yup... Can be considered fixed cost as it does not increase with the amount of goods sold.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Rental I agree
Renovation is fixed cost -> you don't add it in like that
Staff salary can be excluded if you are doing it yourselfYou might as well include electricity bill and water bill. Or delivery of goods. Or payment for security services. Or insurance. Just so many.
So don't need to worry, for I have taken a module on accounting to learn. Have you?
Renovation is a sunken cost, but it will have to be depreciated over certain period and depreciation is COST in business. Plus most retails shops will have to do periodic maintanence and renovation to attract customers.Yes, you should include all cost related to business before you talking about what you EARN, otherwise, it will be meaningless.
Weather you have taken your accounting module or not, it is none of our concern. What is more important is that, the mark up for retail business is not USUALLY 250% and definitely you dont make 75% profit in retail business.
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Renovation is a sunken cost, but it will have to be depreciated over certain period and depreciation is COST in business. Plus most retails shops will have to do periodic maintanence and renovation to attract customers.Yes, you should include all cost related to business before you talking about what you EARN, otherwise, it will be meaningless.
Weather you have taken your accounting module or not, it is none of our concern. What is more important is that, the mark up for retail business is not USUALLY 250% and definitely you dont make 75% profit in retail business.
Sunk cost is irrelevant in making financial decisions, the money has already been spent, even if you don't continue the business, you can never recover it.
eg renovation, to some extend rents and salaries.
Whether a retail business is mark up 250% depends on the market segment that brand is targetting.
Like you example you gave earlier, FJ Benjamin.
How much do you think is the production cost for their pair of jeans?
Or
What is the production cost for a Louis Vuitton handbag?
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Renovation is a sunken cost, but it will have to be depreciated over certain period and depreciation is COST in business. Plus most retails shops will have to do periodic maintanence and renovation to attract customers.Yes, you should include all cost related to business before you talking about what you EARN, otherwise, it will be meaningless.
Weather you have taken your accounting module or not, it is none of our concern. What is more important is that, the mark up for retail business is not USUALLY 250% and definitely you dont make 75% profit in retail business.
1) You have not a shred of idea on what is meant by fixed cost and average fixed cost.
2) You should do your research with wholesalers before stating mark up for retail business. What I have stated applies to clothes, cosmetics, health supplements, stationaries, bags, you name it; whatever it is, there are certainly many retail shops around who do mark up 250% or more. Do you know that even buying clothes in Bangkok costs only 8 singapore dollars, perhaps 10 with delivery. Yet what is the price they are selling at in Singapore? In online shops, they are snapped up at $28, when retail shops are selling the same quality at $30 to $40. This is info sourced from the owner of an online shop, who is a friend of my sis.
It is as you have said, retail shops need to cover rental and all other fixed costs, not to mention earn. Unless they can have a high volume of sale, which might not be so, they will make a net loss.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Sunk cost is irrelevant in making financial decisions, the money has already been spent, even if you don't continue the business, you can never recover it.
eg renovation, to some extend rents and salaries.
Whether a retail business is mark up 250% depends on the market segment that brand is targetting.
Like you example you gave earlier, FJ Benjamin.
How much do you think is the production cost for their pair of jeans?
Or
What is the production cost for a Louis Vuitton handbag?
I know for a fact that levi jeans imported in packs of 10 cost 1/3 the price of the jeans in the departmental store, and this is not from wholesaler. Not to mention that for the stores, they import in bulk from wholesalers, and probably enjoy a much lower price, so much so that it might even be a 300% to 400% increase.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Sunk cost is irrelevant in making financial decisions, the money has already been spent, even if you don't continue the business, you can never recover it.
eg renovation, to some extend rents and salaries.
Whether a retail business is mark up 250% depends on the market segment that brand is targetting.
Like you example you gave earlier, FJ Benjamin.
How much do you think is the production cost for their pair of jeans?
Or
What is the production cost for a Louis Vuitton handbag?
Yes, but before you get into the business, you will have to calculated what is the ROI in those sunked cost isnt it? And if your rental lease with your landlord is only 2 + 2 that means your business will only make business sense if you could recover your sunken cost within 2 years isnt it? That is not cost of business?
You rightly highlighted that in retail business it is not USUALLY 250%. FJ Benjamins doesnt make jeans, they sell them only.
LV? I suppose their production cost will be cheap, but marketing cost will be expensive.
why are we comparing the profits of manufacturers to retailers?
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Originally posted by eagle:
I know for a fact that levi jeans imported in packs of 10 cost 1/3 the price of the jeans in the departmental store, and this is not from wholesaler. Not to mention that for the stores, they import in bulk from wholesalers, and probably enjoy a much lower price, so much so that it might even be a 300% to 400% increase.
My friend wanted to do some lingerie business sometime back, the cost is like SGD5 to SGD10 a piece,but these lingeries sell for like hundred Euros in the European Union.
We wanted to copy the design and sell in Singapore for like $30 to $40.
But the business didn't materialised because friend didn't dare take the risk.
The initial setup cost was quite hefty.
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Originally posted by TCH05:
Yes, but before you get into the business, you will have to calculated what is the ROI in those sunked cost isnt it? And if your rental lease with your landlord is only 2 + 2 that means your business will only make business sense if you could recover your sunken cost within 2 years isnt it? That is not cost of business?
You rightly highlighted that in retail business it is not USUALLY 250%. FJ Benjamins doesnt make jeans, they sell them only.
LV? I suppose their production cost will be cheap, but marketing cost will be expensive.
why are we comparing the profits of manufacturers to retailers?
Too tired to argue with you.
You are right retail stores don't mark up afew hundred percent,
retail stores mark up 50%.
When you go do some auditing work then you will figure out.