Would you donate money to this chap ?
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it's now a hot topic!
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Besides the fact that this chap will steal your ricebowl if he get healed. Chemotherapy is overrated and overpriced.
The $150 000 will be better spent on providing better homes for children in africa than on a dying guy who is almost certainly going to die anyway.
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If you choose not to donate, you should just keep quite and don't influence other people too.
If you think that it is not appropriate to help a foreigner, then breed more so that government can stop importing foreing talents. the very reason the government imports foreign talent is manpower. what will happen in 10 years time if your government choose not to import foreign talent now and the birth rate is kept at below the recommended rate?
And also, if you are so hostile against foreign talents, you should not blame them if they leave Singapore one day because they don't feel that they are at home. We hate them because they take our jobs without thinking that our qualification is far below theirs and we are simply just not qualified to take that jobs.
And also, you also need to note that some of the $180k spent on his medical treatment will go back to Singapore government.
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dun ask we will donate anot.
ask china got start donation drive anot.
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there's now another counter article on the asiaone website about a chap whose daughter got cured of leukemia after a donor from China matched her bone marrow .....
http://www.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20080314-54503.html
I am glad to see that the daughter and the family has now a second chance at life ....
but I think they have totally missed the point .....
I have been on the bone marrow registry for years too, ever since I came of age ... and I would not question, or hesitate to donate my bone marrow to a non-Singaporean ... why ? ... because I know in all likelihood my bone marrow would match only another's in a one-in-a-million chance, and no one else ... it's either to donate to that one particular person, anywhere in the world, or not at all ... my gift of bone marrow can go ONLY to that person and no one else ........ so my choice is clear on this ..... same thing for the annonymous foreign donor too .... it's either to the daughter or likely no one else ...
not so what we're talking about here ... which is money .... because a gift of money can be used by anyone, and everyone in need ....
because money is a universal aid tool that can help other people just as equally ...
your aid in money can be prioritized and ranked on a needs scale easily, unlike a donation of bone marrow .... it's very obvious we're talking about different scales of things here ......
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Originally posted by fudgester:
My dua sen....
I will not say that donating to a leukaemia-stricken foreign scholar is an act of misplaced charity, because in the end, you're still helping someone in need. Singaporean, PRC, Russian, Martian.... in the end, helping someone in need is still a worthy act.
Just don't neglect your fellow Singaporeans in doing so. Don't give your money to this fella only to forget all about fellow Singaporeans who suffer just as much (or probably even more) than he does. Help him if you can, but don't forget about your brethren either if you do.
To me, what construes misplaced charity is all those offers to help that NUS China 'scholar' pay his fine because he hacked into a school system to find out his A Level grades (anyone remember that case?).
Helping a leukaemia patient is one thing, but to help a crook is another.
haha ... yeah .... helping him pay his fine .... damm ! ... that's a great one ....
I wonder if he's lost his scholarship .... or is ethics not a consideration at all in the awarding of scholarships at NUS ? ....
NUS students, care to find out ? ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
cos this is Singapore my dear .....
where most Singaporeans have medisave (read: your own savings) ....
so it's alright for hospitals to charge 150k, because most of the costs are covered by the above ... so patients would only have to fork out, say ... 20-30k before they die .....
and the powers-that-be can thus congratulate themselves on building an affordable health-care system .....
welcome to Singapore ....
zzzzzzzi mean i don't think chemo costs that much
actually from all your posts
i gather you have a lot of grievances with singapore?why do you even come back then?
stay where you were lor zzz
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Originally posted by noopi:
zzzzzzzi mean i don't think chemo costs that much
actually from all your posts
i gather you have a lot of grievances with singapore?why do you even come back then?
stay where you were lor zzz
well ... now you know ... the chap above had to fork out $57k for his dotter's treatment, that's AFTER medisave and private insurance ......
I came back because this is my home .... and correction ... i don't have any grievances against Singapore, only against the goverment ... these two are different things ....
the irony is that when I was overseas, i was quite "pro-goverment"... perhaps you can say that I wasn't in touch with the ground then ....
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there are really alot of locals who were made poor by hospital fee.
gov. expects you to sell off your house and other properties first before they would EVEN consider helping you out. The prc, unlike locals, does not have to lose anything before he gets help. that's unfair.
just because his case is reported in the media doesn't mean that he has the most dire needs of all. there are many locals out there in our hospitals (those who can't afford to stay in hospitals simply die at home without treatment), who have more dire needs than him, but are consider unworthy to be reported by the media.
I'm sure that if we are to report every cases, where people qualifies to fall under "needy people", we would have long ran out of money donating/ helping these people.
and seriously, why not get him to seek treatment back home in China? or somewhere else which offer cheaper treatment? I recall Times magazine reviewing the quality of Indian hospitals, where they get more less. (staying in 4 stars hotels and yet have a smaller bill than in s'pore.) the $80k should be more than enough. if he wants help from singaporean, then be a singaporean first, then we will do something about it. if he wants to hold on to his chinese citizenship, all themore he should return to his "beloved" country and seek treatment, instead of expecting us singaporeans to pay for him. our money should be better spent on locals, who actually toil hard for this country, instead of spending it on someone who is most likely going to forget about our kindness in the not too distant future.
also, china certainly have enough rich folks to donate for his cause. there are more millionaires in china then in singapore. like someone has mentioned, though not all people can afford to donate, just 1% of 1.3 bn people tally to 13 million people, 3X the population of singapore. and from these people, if they just donate 1RMB each, he would have gathered $2.6 million (SGD). $2.6m is certainly more than enough to pay for his treatment.
to noopi,
(quote)
actually from all your posts
i gather you have a lot of grievances with singapore?why do you even come back then?
stay where you were lor zzz
come back? what do you mean? we r here cos we r stuck here in singapore, as a singaporean.
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According to UN International Conventions,
the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[1]
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Originally posted by fai:
According to UN International Conventions,
ermmmm .... your point ? ...
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I will donate, regardless of race, religion, and nationality.
How much help would you wish the public gave you when you are going through something like he is?
Indeed most people here are cold-hearted. They would donate if that patient was ang moh. Female.
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that's the thing isn't it?
if you start to think about who DESERVES it more - there's no end to it.
cos there will always be someone who NEEDS it more, who DESERVES it more, who had been more deprived
then there is compassion: is donation = to compassion?
How about those people who donate to variety shows cos they wanna win the lucky draw?
Pragmatists would say - whatever gets the job done!
Idealists would say - it commercialises the entire 'industry' of compassion
Giving unconditionally is an unwritten social contract. Philanthropists do it because they see themselves as part of a bigger plan, bigger entity. So it really depends on how you see yourself in relation to the bigger plan - does it mean you are less charitable because you only contribute to family, singaporeans, chinese, animals, angmos, females? I don't think so if at the moment of giving, your gift was done without expectations.
And if you can see yourself as part of humanity - and thus would give to all who needs it: that's great but you are one busy person like mother theresa. Unless you are only saying and not doing loh.
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The notion that this China guy don't deserve our help because more locals deserve it more is ridiculous. As someone mentioned, we are all part of humanity...why differenciation of nationalities and who we should or should not help?
By this notion, does that mean that when I donate money, I should give piriority to needy local chinese 18-year old male NSF who graduated from JC? Because that person is 'closer to me', while a malay auntie can always get help from her own community...
Must divide ourselves until like that...make any sense or not?
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Originally posted by annoy-you-must:
The notion that this China guy don't deserve our help because more locals deserve it more is ridiculous. As someone mentioned, we are all part of humanity...why differenciation of nationalities and who we should or should not help?
By this notion, does that mean that when I donate money, I should give piriority to needy local chinese 18-year old male NSF who graduated from JC? Because that person is 'closer to me', while a malay auntie can always get help from her own community...
Must divide ourselves until like that...make any sense or not?
Yes.. this China guy deserves our help... he has no one else to turn to.. so he turn to Singaporean.....
But if he is a Singaporean.. can we go to China and ask their 1% of 1 billion to donate ?
Afterall.. we are all humansss.... don't we all deserve to be treated equally ?
Singaporeans should do Charity.. China people also should do Charity mah ? Correct ?
Next year.. shouldn't our President Charity drive go China .. to ask them to donate to our SG needy ? Afterall... we are all humanssss....... they should be very willing to give .. too...
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Originally posted by ultranova3:
If you choose not to donate, you should just keep quite and don't influence other people too.
If you think that it is not appropriate to help a foreigner, then breed more so that government can stop importing foreing talents. the very reason the government imports foreign talent is manpower. what will happen in 10 years time if your government choose not to import foreign talent now and the birth rate is kept at below the recommended rate?
And also, if you are so hostile against foreign talents, you should not blame them if they leave Singapore one day because they don't feel that they are at home. We hate them because they take our jobs without thinking that our qualification is far below theirs and we are simply just not qualified to take that jobs.
And also, you also need to note that some of the $180k spent on his medical treatment will go back to Singapore government.
Ultranova,
Where have you been these past few years ? Living in China ?
If you don;t know what is going on... please.. find out ok ?
What breed more ? You don;t know about the STOP AT 2 policy our clever gahment implemented before ?
What not qualified? We are qualified.. except they are much CHEAPER.
Yes $180K come from SG commoners.. goes into SG gahment.. but SG gahment not giving back to the SG commoners worrrrrr.... the money goes towards paying our million dollar minister 1 month salary .......HARLOW ????? HOW ?
Import what foreign talent ?.. WHY ? MONEY !
In the first place.. yes we welcome them.. the India, thai, Bangladesh workers. Because they are suppose to help us lower living costs by providing cheap labor.
NOT TAKE AWAY OUR RICE BOWLS ! Which is what the foreign "TALENTS" are doing now.
Please lah.... I see your post.. I want to vomit blood.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Ultranova,
Where have you been these past few years ? Living in China ?
If you don;t know what is going on... please.. find out ok ?
What breed more ? You don;t know about the STOP AT 2 policy our clever gahment implemented before ?
What not qualified? We are qualified.. except they are much CHEAPER.
Yes $180K come from SG commoners.. goes into SG gahment.. but SG gahment not giving back to the SG commoners worrrrrr.... the money goes towards paying our million dollar minister 1 month salary .......HARLOW ????? HOW ?
Import what foreign talent ?.. WHY ? MONEY !
In the first place.. yes we welcome them.. the India, thai, Bangladesh workers. Because they are suppose to help us lower living costs by providing cheap labor.
NOT TAKE AWAY OUR RICE BOWLS ! Which is what the foreign "TALENTS" are doing now.
Please lah.... I see your post.. I want to vomit blood.
Isn't government giving incentive now to reverse the "stop at 2 policy"? Do you think it is appropriate to remain at this level without the help of foreign talent? have you ever considered the increasing rate of emigration because some Singaporeans have found greener pasture there? With the low-level birth rate and combined with increasing annual rate of emigration, do you think Singapore will survive in let's say 10 years time? I am not in any way pro-PAP. that is the reason why I suggest that we have to increase our birth rate and hope that we will not be too dependent on foreign talent in the future. But for now, we need them to sustain our economy. As for the long term effect, we have to depend on ourselves, not even PR. It must be Singaporean.
All companies are looking for cheaper labour cost and person with better qualification. If you are on the same level as them, why don't you accept the same pay since you are in no way better than them? If you do not want to accept that low pay, then prove to the company that you have some qualities that they don't have and you deserve a better pay than them.
If you notice, Singapore behaves more like a Corporation/Company than a nation. Singapore is looking to make profit, and some portion of the profit to help poor people and improve your welfare (of course as you say, some of it go to ministers' salaries). That's also why ministers' salaries use CEO's salaries as a benchmark. But there is really nothing we can do about it. You can sign petition as you wish, denouncing PAP. But PAP will find a way to justify it. Does opposition party want to be paid far lower amount if they win the election and become a PM? Maybe, but do you want a government that is corrupt because they think that their pay is very low (compared to CEO with the same qualification) and they don't deserve this pay? Or you want those that do not qualify to be your ministers because all those that are qualified choose to work as CEO instead?
Unless you have a very concrete counter-argument against the import of foreign talent and ministers' salary, there is no point complaining about it to them because those arguments can just be demolished in minutes if not seconds. So before you want to criticize government's policies, I hope you can think about the best counter-argument, reasonable if not better solutions to solve the problems besides the one that is presented by your government.
And also for those who are criticizing NTU's effort to raise fund to help the PRC guy. You are NOT in anyway obliged to donate to him, why do you complain then? If you think it is not appropriate to donate to him, why do you go to another level and influence others.
You can say that 180k can be used to help Singaporeans. I can also say that why donate to old people when you know that they are going to die. Why choose to help those kidney patients, AIDS patients, Cancer patients when you know that they will die soon. Wouldn't it be better if you donate the money to poor younger children who will have more time to live? Billions dollars are spent on AIDS and cancer treatment and research, why do so when you can feed hundred thousands of poor Singaporean children for more than a year with better prospect?
All of you know this but you still choose to donate because you know that you want to give Hope to them. You want them to continue to survive eventhough you know it is highly impossible. But If you take away that hope from them, they are as close to death.
Why do you choose to take this PRC's HOPE then?
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Originally posted by ultranova3:
Isn't government giving incentive now to reverse the "stop at 2 policy"? Do you think it is appropriate to remain at this level without the help of foreign talent? have you ever considered the increasing rate of emigration because some Singaporeans have found greener pasture there? With the low-level birth rate and combined with increasing annual rate of emigration, do you think Singapore will survive in let's say 10 years time? I am not in any way pro-PAP. that is the reason why I suggest that we have to increase our birth rate and hope that we will not be too dependent on foreign talent in the future. But for now, we need them to sustain our economy. As for the long term effect, we have to depend on ourselves, not even PR. It must be Singaporean.
All companies are looking for cheaper labour cost and person with better qualification. If you are on the same level as them, why don't you accept the same pay since you are in no way better than them? If you do not want to accept that low pay, then prove to the company that you have some qualities that they don't have and you deserve a better pay than them.
If you notice, Singapore behaves more like a Corporation/Company than a nation. Singapore is looking to make profit, and some portion of the profit to help poor people and improve your welfare (of course as you say, some of it go to ministers' salaries). That's also why ministers' salaries use CEO's salaries as a benchmark. But there is really nothing we can do about it. You can sign petition as you wish, denouncing PAP. But PAP will find a way to justify it. Does opposition party want to be paid far lower amount if they win the election and become a PM? Maybe, but do you want a government that is corrupt because they think that their pay is very low (compared to CEO with the same qualification) and they don't deserve this pay? Or you want those that do not qualify to be your ministers because all those that are qualified choose to work as CEO instead?
Unless you have a very concrete counter-argument against the import of foreign talent and ministers' salary, there is no point complaining about it to them because those arguments can just be demolished in minutes if not seconds. So before you want to criticize government's policies, I hope you can think about the best counter-argument, reasonable if not better solutions to solve the problems besides the one that is presented by your government.
And also for those who are criticizing NTU's effort to raise fund to help the PRC guy. You are NOT in anyway obliged to donate to him, why do you complain then? If you think it is not appropriate to donate to him, why do you go to another level and influence others.
You can say that 180k can be used to help Singaporeans. I can also say that why donate to old people when you know that they are going to die. Why choose to help those kidney patients, AIDS patients, Cancer patients when you know that they will die soon. Wouldn't it be better if you donate the money to poor younger children who will have more time to live? Billions dollars are spent on AIDS and cancer treatment and research, why do so when you can feed hundred thousands of poor Singaporean children for more than a year with better prospect?
All of you know this but you still choose to donate because you know that you want to give Hope to them. You want them to continue to survive eventhough you know it is highly impossible. But If you take away that hope from them, they are as close to death.
Why do you choose to take this PRC's HOPE then?
Ultranova,
Clap clap.. what a load of bull crap.
Incentives ? What incentives ? How much ? How long ?
If you want people to start increasing birth rates.. you need to provide a CONDUCIVE environment for them to build their nests and expand their nests.
With the influx, Singaporeans are worried about their future. Do you think a responsible parent will want to bring their offsprings into a world to face hardships and wonder if he/she can have a stable future ? Given how hard life is and will become. EVERY responsible parent wants to give the best to their children, can they? I remind you, they are raising their own child, NOT cattle .
You know what a vicious cycle is ?
The more FT comes into SG, the more SG will outflow to other places.
Have you wonder why there is a greener pasture elsewhere? Why couldn't SG BE a greener pasture for Singaporeans ?
Right now.. we open our arms to foreign talents.. who else is opening our arms to Singaporeans? Arn't we essentially being shoved into a corner ?
Back to this poor chap who needs Singaporean's money. If I have the chance, I'd tell him to go get his money FROM HIS OWN CHINA PEOPLE. They think what. Singaporeans are ATMS ?
Yes you are also right.. We are merely a bunch of meek sheep because we have people like you Ultranova.
I really don;t want to go into that stupid million dollar pay crap.. all I can say is.. THIS IS NOT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE !
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Originally posted by Fatum:
well ... now you know ... the chap above had to fork out $57k for his dotter's treatment, that's AFTER medisave and private insurance ......
I came back because this is my home .... and correction ... i don't have any grievances against Singapore, only against the goverment ... these two are different things ....
the irony is that when I was overseas, i was quite "pro-goverment"... perhaps you can say that I wasn't in touch with the ground then ....
Its actually normal to be pro-Singapore when overseas. Its your country, you don't want foreigners to sully your country. But among countrymen, let fly the criticisms. That what every nationals does.
Back to topic.
As for donating to the leukemia striken student, I would be more circumspect. Remember the Huang Na episode. Half a million bucks of condelences. Singaporeans flitter millions away to Singapore Pools, and also millions to televised charities, and also to scams.
I am also going to die*, maybe I should start a donation drive too.
* hopefuly of old age.
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Originally posted by ultranova3:
If you choose not to donate, you should just keep quite and don't influence other people too.
I am entitled to my own opinions. Stop being a prude and telling people what to do. -
Originally posted by ultranova3:
All companies are looking for cheaper labour cost and person with better qualification. If you are on the same level as them, why don't you accept the same pay since you are in no way better than them? If you do not want to accept that low pay, then prove to the company that you have some qualities that they don't have and you deserve a better pay than them.
You can say that 180k can be used to help Singaporeans. I can also say that why donate to old people when you know that they are going to die. Why choose to help those kidney patients, AIDS patients, Cancer patients when you know that they will die soon. Wouldn't it be better if you donate the money to poor younger children who will have more time to live? Billions dollars are spent on AIDS and cancer treatment and research, why do so when you can feed hundred thousands of poor Singaporean children for more than a year with better prospect?
Why do you choose to take this PRC's HOPE then?
Ultranova,
Are you still in Secondary school ?
Competitions will only lower prices.. influx of cheaper options to compete with local labor pool only means a downward SPIRAL of compensation.
With rising living costs and downward spiral of salaries.. is Singapore essentially heading for a meltdown ?
When Singapore hits the pots.. do you know who will be the first to exit our dear country ? Hint: not the ones who gets screwed by foreign imports.
Why do I want to take hope from this PRC? My question to you would be.. why is he taking hope from my fellow SGreans ? Fair ?
I tell hor.. your kind of argument only makes SG people more du lan with the foreign imports.
So if you really want to help him.. the best is to keep quiet.
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Donate to save one person or donate to cancer research and save alot of people.
Coffin or coffins, your call.
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Originally posted by amran88:
I will donate, regardless of race, religion, and nationality.
How much help would you wish the public gave you when you are going through something like he is?
Indeed most people here are cold-hearted. They would donate if that patient was ang moh. Female.
dun assume people are coldhearted just because they think differently from you.. everyone has their own criteria to choose who they want to donate to.. ur last statement is nonsensical.. give me proof that ppl in sg are more willing to donate to angmoh who needs help rather than chinese nationals.
edit: grammar
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Originally posted by Fatum:
well ... now you know ... the chap above had to fork out $57k for his dotter's treatment, that's AFTER medisave and private insurance ......
I came back because this is my home .... and correction ... i don't have any grievances against Singapore, only against the goverment ... these two are different things ....
the irony is that when I was overseas, i was quite "pro-goverment"... perhaps you can say that I wasn't in touch with the ground then ....
i think it isn't so much about being in touch with the ground, it is that the govt has gone from bad to worst.
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The poodle are REALLY in touch with the ground.
Just read on the news that the Million Poodle are actually volunteering as tour guide for "new" singaporeans so that they can "settle" down in sin city faster.
Now, FT is King.
Even the poodle want to suck up to them.
Local is just too bad, cos we are sprouting real issues and problems that these incompetent poodles are unable to solve.
They cannot even capture a limping man.