Why riot break out in Tibet just b4 Taiwan election?
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Originally posted by Fatum:
so military force is, in your books, .... right ? ....
so "the chinese decided many MANY years ago that tibet was part of it by invading. There are NO "tibetans" anymore.".... woah ....
so according to your logic, when Iraq invaded kuwait in the first gulf war, no one should give a flying fark, cos there are only two parties involved, Iraq, and Kuwait, right ? ..... funny, you know saddam hussein called all kuwaitis new Iraqis after he invaded ? .... again, I fail to see your curious logic ....
so if Singapore gets swallowed up by our neighbours to our north or south, we become "local rebels" in your books ? ... and we should all suck it up and kowtow to our new masters, accept a new identity ? .....
I do notice many chinese cultural chauvinists, not neccessarily chinese nationals, proclaiming tibet to be part of china ... are you simply one of them ? ....
1) the invasion happened a long time ago. Tibet is part of china now. It's not a debate. It's a fact. You don't have to be a chinese cultural chauvinist, whatever THAT is, to claim tibet is part of china. You just have to be someone who owns a map.
2) But let's say we should save the culture of tibet from the Chinese rule. Here's a list of Tibet's long history. Which culture do you think we should make them adapt to?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet
Should we perhaps reinstate the emperors?
3) But hey, let's take this further. Modern china is made up of many ancient Kingdoms that were invaded at some point in time. Let's break all the states up and let them reignite their culture! Would that make you happy?
4) Why stop at China? Save all cultures! Liberate the Americas from the british colonists! Drive the Australians out of australia so the native culture may flourish! In fact, go back to where your ancestors came from so OUR native malays can revert!
Seriously, slow down and take a moment to think about it. Cultures get merged or destroyed through time/wars. It's been happening all through history. The Tibetian/Chinese merger is not the first, and probably won't be the last. Just look at how Iraq is faring under the Americans. Some things you just have to learn to let go.
You want to start your self-righteous crusade to save the Tibetian culture, you better be prepared to save every culture. Start with saving every single different culture that has been destroyed in Tibet alone by the current Tibetians. Frankly, this is only an issue not because of "chinese cultural chauvinists"(WTF IS THAT ANYWAY), but because of people so blindly anti-chinese such as yourself that nothing they do is right.
So to recap, let's just get one point straight. Tibet IS part of China. That is a fact. You want to claim otherwise, you'll need a time machine.
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Originally posted by deathbait:
1) the invasion happened a long time ago. Tibet is part of china now. It's not a debate. It's a fact. You don't have to be a chinese cultural chauvinist, whatever THAT is, to claim tibet is part of china. You just have to be someone who owns a map.
2) But let's say we should save the culture of tibet from the Chinese rule. Here's a list of Tibet's long history. Which culture do you think we should make them adapt to?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet
Should we perhaps reinstate the emperors?
3) But hey, let's take this further. Modern china is made up of many ancient Kingdoms that were invaded at some point in time. Let's break all the states up and let them reignite their culture! Would that make you happy?
4) Why stop at China? Save all cultures! Liberate the Americas from the british colonists! Drive the Australians out of australia so the native culture may flourish! In fact, go back to where your ancestors came from so OUR native malays can revert!
Seriously, slow down and take a moment to think about it. Cultures get merged or destroyed through time/wars. It's been happening all through history. The Tibetian/Chinese merger is not the first, and probably won't be the last. Just look at how Iraq is faring under the Americans. Some things you just have to learn to let go.
You want to start your self-righteous crusade to save the Tibetian culture, you better be prepared to save every culture. Start with saving every single different culture that has been destroyed in Tibet alone by the current Tibetians. Frankly, this is only an issue not because of "chinese cultural chauvinists"(WTF IS THAT ANYWAY), but because of people so blindly anti-chinese such as yourself that nothing they do is right.
So to recap, let's just get one point straight. Tibet IS part of China. That is a fact. You want to claim otherwise, you'll need a time machine.
Hi, I am from China. Many good points you have raised, deathbait! Thank you for representing a sane voice amongst some less enlightened opinions in this forum. It never is a coincidence that the trouble in Tibet is climbing up at this point, just a few months away from the Olympics. It is part of the scheme on the part of Western politicians to further smear the image of China and trying everything they can do wreak havoc in China, for the sake of their own political objective. Tibetans are unfortunately a gullible lot, allowing themselves to be used by anti-Chinese Westerners for the political agenda of the latter.
It amazes me that some people are so quick at pointing fingers at our government for the alleged "cultural assimilation", without understanding that the "Tibetan culture", as you rightly put it, is one characterized by slavery. If it is another country that liberated the Tibetan people from the imprisonment of slavery, they would probably credited with helping the advancement of a people/civilization. But not if it is China. Because it is China, because we represent a different ideology, the West would consistently and persistently find fault with us even when there is none. Their objective is clear: to demonize China and continually pressurize China so that it eventually comes to collapse. But you know what? All this unjustified and abrasive China-bashing just hardens our (the common Chinese nationals) resolve that Communism does need to stay, for lack of a better countering ideology to the hypocritical West. I am not even a fan of communism. But the West is helping make it popular amongst us, ironically.
So it is never about Tibet. It never has been. I doubt the red-haired barbarians truly cared about the well-being of another people. It is their political objective, their perennial desire to conquer the world with their own ideology and their way of doing things that compelled them to indulge in this never-ending China-bashing orgy. Sadly some less informed Singaporeans / red-hair wannabes are too eager to join them...
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Originally posted by idiotbutcherer:
Hi, I am from China. Many good points you have raised, deathbait! Thank you for representing a sane voice amongst some less enlightened opinions in this forum. It never is a coincidence that the trouble in Tibet is climbing up at this point, just a few months away from the Olympics. It is part of the scheme on the part of Western politicians to further smear the image of China and trying everything they can do wreak havoc in China, for the sake of their own political objective. Tibetans are unfortunately a gullible lot, allowing themselves to be used by anti-Chinese Westerners for the political agenda of the latter.
It amazes me that some people are so quick at pointing fingers at our government for the alleged "cultural assimilation", without understanding that the "Tibetan culture", as you rightly put it, is one characterized by slavery. If it is another country that liberated the Tibetan people from the imprisonment of slavery, they would probably credited with helping the advancement of a people/civilization. But not if it is China. Because it is China, because we represent a different ideology, the West would consistently and persistently find fault with us even when there is none. Their objective is clear: to demonize China and continually pressurize China so that it eventually comes to collapse. But you know what? All this unjustified and abrasive China-bashing just hardens our (the common Chinese nationals) resolve that Communism does need to stay, for lack of a better countering ideology to the hypocritical West. I am not even a fan of communism. But the West is helping make it popular amongst us, ironically.
So it is never about Tibet. It never has been. I doubt the red-haired barbarians truly cared about the well-being of another people. It is their political objective, their perennial desire to conquer the world with their own ideology and their way of doing things that compelled them to indulge in this never-ending China-bashing orgy. Sadly some less informed Singaporeans / red-hair wannabes are too eager to join them...
woah ! .... there it comes out .... western political objectives ... the perennial desire to conquer the world with their own ideology ... red haired barbarians .....
you know ... from my own experience with the chinese diaspora ... (read: people of my own kind) ... I think our greatest flaw, our greatest weakness .... is our surfeit of national and cultural pride ...... in the hokkien dialect, it's called "hao lian"...
you sound just like those militant islamic hotheads you know that ? ... except it's about nationalism and racism in your case .... anyone who criticizes you, your kind, and your country are against you ? ....
i am afraid ... very afraid ... of the bipolar world of in our future ...
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Originally posted by deathbait:
1) the invasion happened a long time ago. Tibet is part of china now. It's not a debate. It's a fact. You don't have to be a chinese cultural chauvinist, whatever THAT is, to claim tibet is part of china. You just have to be someone who owns a map.
2) But let's say we should save the culture of tibet from the Chinese rule. Here's a list of Tibet's long history. Which culture do you think we should make them adapt to?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet
Should we perhaps reinstate the emperors?
3) But hey, let's take this further. Modern china is made up of many ancient Kingdoms that were invaded at some point in time. Let's break all the states up and let them reignite their culture! Would that make you happy?
4) Why stop at China? Save all cultures! Liberate the Americas from the british colonists! Drive the Australians out of australia so the native culture may flourish! In fact, go back to where your ancestors came from so OUR native malays can revert!
Seriously, slow down and take a moment to think about it. Cultures get merged or destroyed through time/wars. It's been happening all through history. The Tibetian/Chinese merger is not the first, and probably won't be the last. Just look at how Iraq is faring under the Americans. Some things you just have to learn to let go.
You want to start your self-righteous crusade to save the Tibetian culture, you better be prepared to save every culture. Start with saving every single different culture that has been destroyed in Tibet alone by the current Tibetians. Frankly, this is only an issue not because of "chinese cultural chauvinists"(WTF IS THAT ANYWAY), but because of people so blindly anti-chinese such as yourself that nothing they do is right.
So to recap, let's just get one point straight. Tibet IS part of China. That is a fact. You want to claim otherwise, you'll need a time machine.
so, shall i summarize it for you again ? ... yes, this is getting frustrating indeed .... you're saying that this is, and will be, but an accident of history, right ? ... since Tibet has already been conquered, by force ... for the last 60 years .... it's dead, gone, and buried, right ? ...
and because other countried played the conquering and genocidal game on some hapless natives, like the australian aborogines, and the native americans long ago .... it's alright for China to continue to play the game on the tibetans, cos it's only fair ? .... it's like some kid being caught cheating in a spelling test in kindergarden .... "hey teacher ! ... he also cheated, her also ! ... why you never catch them ? ...not fair ! ".... yah ? ... that's basically what you're saying isn't it ? ...
I don't agree on your last point ... though most nations do agree because there's not a damm thing anyone can do about it, you're right in that regard .... and if this is the kind of new world order the chinese dragon is representing, where it's really about military and economic might .... then I forsee future conflicts down to our region as well .... spratleys etc .....
I wonder if we'd be able to stay out of it ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
just because it's china ? ... are you kowtowing to the country because it's rapidly becoming rich and powerful ? ...
and who says tibet is part of china ? .... the chinese ? ... or the tibetans ? ... who should decide ? .....
you're exhibiting curious logic ...
Tibet was part of China since 1700, previously known as Tu Fan, in 1751, the Manchurian government not only recognized Tibet Dalai Lama as spiritual leader, but also as political leader, similar to the Fan Wang (蕃王，诸侯), but Tibet remains part of China.
There was no problem until the end days of Qing Dynasty. In the battle for supremacy in central Asia, the Britist invaded Tibet, and occupied Lhasa in 1904. Qing government was outraged but what could they do, they already lost HK to the Brits, and Macau to the Portugese, the western armies had burnt down the Summer Palace, and occupied much of the Chinese coastal territories.
When the Brits empire came to its end, it left Asia as a whole and gave independence to countries like India and Pakistan, which fought again each other even until today. May be some western political historians believe that the Brits have given “independence” to Tibet as well.
Of course, when China government became stronger, they claimed what was theirs, Tibet was part of China, without any question. Unfortunately, the new government was communists which was against religion, of any kinds, surely this didn’t go down well in tibet. Since the end days of Qing dynasty, China went through the rapes of the western imperial powers, WW2, the unification of China was not without difficulties and certainly struggles, even civil war. But no politicians should try to rewrite history to their benefits.
Looking back at what the western powers were doing in the continent of America, in the same period when the Qing Dynasty was consolidating its territories. That was the period when the heaven cried. The Qing government occupied the land, but respected the local cultures including religion, the whites not only took what was others for their own, they massacred the indigenous people in their reform movement “killing the Indian to save the man”. The Holocaust expert David Cesarani have argued that the government and policies of the USA against certain indigenous peoples constituted genocide. and "in terms of the sheer numbers killed, the native american genocide exceeds that of the Holocaust". He quotes David Stannard, author of American Holocaust.
In 1751 Chinese had already officially recognised Dalai Lama in Tibet, the whites had not stopped killing the Indians until 1800 (did they stopped there?) and the Blacks continued to be their slaves till 1860. There is no western moral high ground for judging Asia.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
so, shall i summarize it for you again ? ... yes, this is getting frustrating indeed .... you're saying that this is, and will be, but an accident of history, right ? ... since Tibet has already been conquered, by force ... for the last 60 years .... it's dead, gone, and buried, right ? ...
and because other countried played the conquering and genocidal game on some hapless natives, like the australian aborogines, and the native americans long ago .... it's alright for China to continue to play the game on the tibetans, cos it's only fair ? .... it's like some kid being caught cheating in a spelling test in kindergarden .... "hey teacher ! ... he also cheated, her also ! ... why you never catch them ? ...not fair ! ".... yah ? ... that's basically what you're saying isn't it ? ...
I don't agree on your last point ... though most nations do agree because there's not a damm thing anyone can do about it, you're right in that regard .... and if this is the kind of new world order the chinese dragon is representing, where it's really about military and economic might .... then I forsee future conflicts down to our region as well .... spratleys etc .....
I wonder if we'd be able to stay out of it ....
Tibet is not the only place where many people think they should be separated from China, besides Taiwan, there are many minorities in China and where they lived now were not part of China 5000 years ago.
For how long did the people of quebec wanted to be an independent country from Canada, but they were voted out. May be we should ask the Chinese government to vote if they would allow tibet to be an independent country.
Or should the world stand up and fight for the great american to be given back to the native americans, and the whites american should go back to europe?
Spratleys? go to court and fight it out, after all there are more than just China claiming the territory. Tibet, it is part of china 100 years ago. Try to take it away and the boy will not call the mother. The boy has grown up, you can't bully him anymore. That is the new order in the world.
BTW, a grown up boy sure got to have some confidence in himself mah, call it pride if you like...already kena bullied for so many years cannot kaotow anymore.
Whether he will end up being a bully is yet to be seen, but I will still watch out for those who are used to bully other people.
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Regardless of who owns who, this is sad that it is happening.
when i was chatting with a Chinese business partner over beers on the Nanjing massacre by the Japanese, he commented that while it is deplorable, it pales in comparison as to what the Chinese did to the Chinese. The China history is littered with `self-butchering' over land and what-have-you supremacy they are after. He said that without batting an eyelid. All the nationalistic fervor raised by my other Chinese colleague over the Japs atrocities died down soon after.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
Regardless of who owns who, this is sad that it is happening.
when i was chatting with a Chinese business partner over beers on the Nanjing massacre by the Japanese, he commented that while it is deplorable, it pales in comparison as to what the Chinese did to the Chinese. The China history is littered with `self-butchering' over land and what-have-you supremacy they are after. He said that without batting an eyelid. All the nationalistic fervor raised by my other Chinese colleague over the Japs atrocities died down soon after.
In history, human beings killed one another in wars for economic gains, for control of land....
but is there a difference, (just to name a few) when the German thought they were a superior race and the jews had no right to exist so 6 million of them were systematically terminated;
the european whites thought the existence of the native americans hindered the building of their new homes, so the indians were massacred;
the killing of Tutsi minority by the Hutu in Rwanda with the intention to exterminate;
ethnic cleansing during the Bosnian war by the serb forces????
surely the killing of over 300,000 women and children by the japanese invasion forces in Nanjing paled in comparison with the death toll of 72 millions world wide, with 30 million in Asia, but is there a difference in the killings??
over 20 millions Chinese died during the taiping rebellion, but China had great stories of bravery from both sides were written in praises of the people and the heros. ask your china friend what he or his father did during the cultural revolution in China between 1967 to 1976? if he were responsible for just one fatality, would he be proud to share with you the great story?
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Russia links Tibet violence to Kosovo 'precedent'
MOSCOW, March 18 (RIA Novosti) - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said that the recent violence in Tibet is inextricably linked to the recognition of Kosovo's independence.
Speaking in an interview published on Tuesday in the Rossiiskaya Gazeta government daily, he said that the recognition of Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence by many countries, including the U.S. and the majority of EU states, had "already reverberated in many regions."
He added that the Kosovo issue was linked to recent riots in Tibet and demands for greater autonomy by ethnic Albanians in Macedonia.
"There are ground to presume that this is not occurring by chance," he said.
"You can see what is happening in China's autonomous region of Tibet, how the separatists there are acting. The Albanians in Macedonia are already demanding a level of autonomy that is a clear step toward independence. Furthermore, events in other areas of the world give us grounds to assume that we are only at the beginning of a very precarious process," the minister went on to say.
Violence erupted in the Tibetan capital on March 10 as locals gathered to mark the anniversary of the 1959 Tibetan uprising. There are conflicting reports behind the number of deaths, with China saying 13 civilians and 13 members of the security forces died, while exiled Tibetan leaders put the number of civilian deaths at around 80. China has blamed the violence on the Dalai Lama.
Lavrov also said that attempts were continuing in Kosovo "to force people to live in a state that has been illegally formed."
Russia's top diplomat reiterated Moscow and Belgrade's view that Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence was a blatant breach of international law. He also called the encouragement of separatist tendencies "immoral."
The worst violence to hit Kosovo since the "world's newest state" announced its independence a little over a month ago broke out on Monday after United Nations police and NATO-led KFOR troops launched an operation to regain control of a UN court building that had been seized by ethnic Serb protestors.
Over 100 people were injured in subsequent clashes between Serbs and police.
Serbia said on Monday it had "begun consultations with Russia on joint action to put an end to any violence against Serbs as soon as possible."
Lavrov, who is due to begin a three-day tour of the Middle East on March 19, also called on all Islamic countries to defy calls to recognize Kosovo's sovereignty. This would, he said, act as a sign of Muslim solidarity.
During his visit to Syria, Israel and the territory controlled by the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), Lavrov is due to discuss the Israeli-Palestinian peace process and bilateral relations.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080318/101564953.html
A Secret War On The Roof Of The World
http://www.newsweek.com/id/89265
CIA aided Kosovo guerrilla army
http://www.geocities.com/cpa_blacktown/20000314ciakltimuk.htm
They never tire of subversive activities, the USA.
They never.
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And as usual,China is blocking off all foriegn news report abt the Tibet riots.
China Tries to Thwart News Reports From Tibet
By THE NEW YORK TIMES MAR. 18, 2008
BEIJING — The Chinese government is restricting foreign journalists from entering Tibet and neighboring areas, and blocking some news, video and Internet reports about the protests there from appearing inside China, according to journalists working here.
For the past few days, CNN, the BBC, Google News, Yahoo and YouTube have been blocked or have faced temporary blackouts or service disruptions in some parts of China. Some foreign journalists also say their e-mail service has been disrupted.
Such measures are not unusual here. China strictly censors news that appears in the Chinese media and occasionally disrupts the activities of international news organizations and foreign Web sites operating in China, particularly if the content they are distributing is deemed politically offensive to the government.
The Foreign Correspondents Club of China issued a statement on Monday calling for China to immediately allow foreign journalists access to Tibet, which is in far western China. The organization, made up of foreign journalists based here, said Beijing had failed to honor its promise that before and during the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, it would allow foreign reporters greater freedoms to report in China. -
Sad....really sad about this.....I think what saddens me more is probably reading these kind of posts at online forums.....
I think some people are not on their objective minds anymore, and they dont even realize it....just receive whatever advertisement shown at them.....
'Advertisement' ...are things made and packaged and shown, and then u will form an impression and buy the product or the concept...
Please at least think abit before you easily fall into the tricks in the ads....Some posters here resemble the posters in other Western websites. These people have completely bought the (false) product.
One look at Western media and many people can see what is going on. What surprised me is that
there are people who still miss the obvious.Maybe I give an example.
I think most people here are familiar with the so-called Straits Times..? Do you all objectively believe that Straits Times is neutral? especially during election period..? Hmm? It is filled with advertisements nobody can miss. Everybody familiar with this?
And now open your eyes, wide.
Watch how certain Western media are concocting an advertisement campaign to demonize China.
First is Sudan, Darfur. I was a little puzzled at first. How can China and the Olympics be linked to some happenings in a country in Africa..?
And now, look again, almost all Western media will make a reference to Olympics, again. Tibet and Olympics. These 2 words go together.
Only a fool will miss the obvious. -
Singapore is pro-USA and since the propaganda media is controlled by the state, it also spreads pro-USA propaganda.
That has no concern with me because I don't read Singapore mainstream propaganda media.
It is worthless.
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Made-in-China,as with fake milk powder and cardboard paos...enough said
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Tibet was part of China since 1700, previously known as Tu Fan, in 1751, the Manchurian government not only recognized Tibet Dalai Lama as spiritual leader, but also as political leader, similar to the Fan Wang (蕃王，诸侯), but Tibet remains part of China.
There was no problem until the end days of Qing Dynasty. In the battle for supremacy in central Asia, the Britist invaded Tibet, and occupied Lhasa in 1904. Qing government was outraged but what could they do, they already lost HK to the Brits, and Macau to the Portugese, the western armies had burnt down the Summer Palace, and occupied much of the Chinese coastal territories.
When the Brits empire came to its end, it left Asia as a whole and gave independence to countries like India and Pakistan, which fought again each other even until today. May be some western political historians believe that the Brits have given “independence” to Tibet as well.
Of course, when China government became stronger, they claimed what was theirs, Tibet was part of China, without any question. Unfortunately, the new government was communists which was against religion, of any kinds, surely this didn’t go down well in tibet. Since the end days of Qing dynasty, China went through the rapes of the western imperial powers, WW2, the unification of China was not without difficulties and certainly struggles, even civil war. But no politicians should try to rewrite history to their benefits.
Looking back at what the western powers were doing in the continent of America, in the same period when the Qing Dynasty was consolidating its territories. That was the period when the heaven cried. The Qing government occupied the land, but respected the local cultures including religion, the whites not only took what was others for their own, they massacred the indigenous people in their reform movement “killing the Indian to save the man”. The Holocaust expert David Cesarani have argued that the government and policies of the USA against certain indigenous peoples constituted genocide. and "in terms of the sheer numbers killed, the native american genocide exceeds that of the Holocaust". He quotes David Stannard, author of American Holocaust.
In 1751 Chinese had already officially recognised Dalai Lama in Tibet, the whites had not stopped killing the Indians until 1800 (did they stopped there?) and the Blacks continued to be their slaves till 1860. There is no western moral high ground for judging Asia.
once upon a time, the US belonged to the british ... so by your reasoning ... it's alright for the brits to claim back what "belonged" to another ?. .... it is the alienable right of people every where to be free and independant ... though it has been 60 years, I think it's abundantly clear, that the tibetans are unhappy and unsatisfied with chinese rule ...
I see you're another cultural chauvinist .... wat western moral high ground ? .... invasion by force another country, another independant political entitiy is wrong, pure and simple ... or you think otherwise ? ....
did you read my argument in another thread? ... when you bring up examples of "western hypocrisy"... isn't it like a kid being caught cheating in a kindergarden spelling test .... screaming "teacher teacher , he cheated also, her too, how come you never catch them ! ... not fair ! "... right ? ... so in your books, it's alright to invade by force, cos
other "western" countries did it too ? ....I find it comical and stupid when people come and say double standards are being applied when certain issues come up, be it fake and dodgy goods or tibet .... it reminds me of those politicians being caught farking another woman on tape ... screaming conspiracy theories ... they completely miss the point ... shouldn't they be blaming themselves for being peckerheads in the first place ? ... instead of blaming others for being exposed ? .... don't point fingers and say that everyone else is farking around when you get caught ... just don't give other people any excuses ! .. don't keep skeletons in your closets ! ....
mind you SGdiehard .... many in malaysia still believe Singapore to be part of that country ... what do you say when one day they want to come and reclaim back what is "theirs" ? ....
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Originally posted by Meat Pao:
Sad....really sad about this.....I think what saddens me more is probably reading these kind of posts at online forums.....
I think some people are not on their objective minds anymore, and they dont even realize it....just receive whatever advertisement shown at them.....
'Advertisement' ...are things made and packaged and shown, and then u will form an impression and buy the product or the concept...
Please at least think abit before you easily fall into the tricks in the ads....Some posters here resemble the posters in other Western websites. These people have completely bought the (false) product.
One look at Western media and many people can see what is going on. What surprised me is that
there are people who still miss the obvious.Maybe I give an example.
I think most people here are familiar with the so-called Straits Times..? Do you all objectively believe that Straits Times is neutral? especially during election period..? Hmm? It is filled with advertisements nobody can miss. Everybody familiar with this?
And now open your eyes, wide.
Watch how certain Western media are concocting an advertisement campaign to demonize China.
First is Sudan, Darfur. I was a little puzzled at first. How can China and the Olympics be linked to some happenings in a country in Africa..?
And now, look again, almost all Western media will make a reference to Olympics, again. Tibet and Olympics. These 2 words go together.
Only a fool will miss the obvious.again, whether it's conspiracy or otherwise, why give others a handle on you in the first place ? .....
it is a fact that anti-chinese riots has broken out in several african countries because of exploitive economics, it is a fact that the chinese goverment, the biggest player in the oil and gas industry there, is turning a blind eye to the atrocities in sudan in return for oil, it is a fact that tibetans are being gun down on the streets of lhasa ... it is a fact that china is unilaterally claiming all of the spratley islands .... parts of even Bhutan, one of the weakest countries in the world ...
before one comes out screaming of double standards when the skeletons in your cupboard gets exposed, why not make sure that there are no skeletons in the closets in the first place ? ....
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Ceecookie,
Your article is from New York Times. I really don't know how credible it is bcos for so many years there have been too many lies coming from Western world about China. Everybody should read these:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20050530gc.html
http://in.rediff.com/news/2002/oct/24chin.htm
http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=14621
The above links were written by a former Aussie diplomat, Gregory Clark who specialises in China affairs.
Nowadays I don't read New York Times anymore because it is helping the US government cover up on actual death figures in Iraq. Read here:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/oct2006/kell-o16.shtml
Most of American media have labelled the killings in Darfur as genocide. The Iraq war has already taken 3 times as many lives as the Darfur crisis but yet NY times is silent on the issue.
IMO, one of the reasons why American/western media is so keen on the Darfur issue is that they want to distract the world's attention away from Iraq.
How credible is NY Times anyway?
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Buddhism with a clenched fist
MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti political commentator Dmitry Kosyrev) - Discussion of the recent unrest in Tibet has for the most part focused on the number of dead and wounded, and on whether the actions of the Chinese security services were right or wrong.
But there are two far more important, if perhaps less evident, truths to emerge from the events in Lhasa. First is the emergence of politicized Buddhism. The second is just how little we know about it.
The debate about the rights and wrongs of the Chinese actions is something of a red-herring. As long as you accept that the Chinese authorities did not stage arson in Lhasa's marketplace, it is unreasonable to criticize the actions of the police.
Law enforcement agencies in any country must act quickly and decisively to remove any threat to life and property. Whether the Chinese should be in Tibet in the first place is another question.
The bigger issue behind the Tibetan drama, though so far overlooked, is the role of politically active - and occasionally aggressive - Buddhism.
The phrase "aggressive Buddhism" initially sounds absurd. Non-violence, after all, is the essence of Buddhism. A Buddhist monk would never till the land lest his spade hurt a worm. For many, Buddhism represents an "ideal" religion, which, unlike Christianity and Islam, has avoided the atrocities of the Inquisition, makes no justification for war and conquest, and has never stooped to terrorism. It is for these reasons that so many seek inspiration in Chinese, Japanese, Thai and other Buddhist cultures.
"Virtue should sometimes clench its fists," went a 1960s slogan of Soviet liberal intellectuals. That would sound preposterous if it referred to Buddhism. Or would it?
Buddhist monks were active in last year's protests in Myanmar, and are now at the centre of the Lhasa drama. Even if Buddhist extremism is a sheer theoretical assumption, its thunderbolt appearance is among the most alarming developments in the world today.
This statement demands clarification. The Lamaism of Tibet is only one branch of Buddhism, and Buddhism does not know a global hierarchy outside Tibet.
Importantly, there is no proof that monks were behind either the Burmese or Tibetan unrest, and there is certainly no evidence of organizational links between them. Really, rioters are people of quite a different sort, while monks and harmless laymen tend to be picked as scapegoats. And this leads us to the second lesson of Lhasa - just how little we know.
The violence leading to deaths and injuries in Lhasa started with arson. The number of casualties on both sides is approximately equal, and the Chinese authorities, we think, have a vague idea of who started what and who is to blame.
That is about all we know - and probably all we will know for the foreseeable future. Yet the events unfolding are dramatic enough to base a thriller on, and it is all tempting - and extremely easy - to impose such a fantastical plot on events.
Setting the stage is China's, and indeed Asia's, breakneck drive for global influence, a trend that many in the world are uncomfortable with. China has two tender points - Muslim-populated Xinjiang and Buddhist-populated Tibet. Xinjiang at one point appeared the best place for subversion, but the NATO operation in nearby Afghanistan has deprived Islamic militants of a bridgehead.
Furthermore, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, with its strong antiterrorist agenda, has brought together countries bordering on Xinjiang to protect this vulnerable and remote part of China.
Hence our anti-Chinese conspirators turn to Tibet as the theater for their dastardly plans. Ample food for the imagination is provided by Tibet's links with Buddhists all over China. Now, add the Dalai Lama, an exile since 1959, Buddhist organizations scattered all about the world - some with an obscure background - and conspiracies against the junta in Myanmar as a way to deter China.
The book might finish with the emergence of a Buddhist version of al-Qaida getting out of its founders' control, just as the real al-Qaida was established and nurtured to fight the Soviet regime, and then went astray. Wouldn't that make a bestseller?
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080318/101602215.html
The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html
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Originally posted by Blueray:
Ceecookie,
Your article is from New York Times. I really don't know how credible it is bcos for so many years there have been too many lies coming from Western world about China. Everybody should read these:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20050530gc.html
http://in.rediff.com/news/2002/oct/24chin.htm
http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=14621
The above links were written by a former Aussie diplomat, Gregory Clark who specialises in China affairs.
Nowadays I don't read New York Times anymore because it is helping the US government cover up on actual death figures in Iraq. Read here:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/oct2006/kell-o16.shtml
Most of American media have labelled the killings in Darfur as genocide. The Iraq war has already taken 3 times as many lives as the Darfur crisis but yet NY times is silent on the issue.
IMO, one of the reasons why American/western media is so keen on the Darfur issue is that they want to distract the world's attention away from Iraq.
How credible is NY Times anyway?
you know ... you bunch of people are cute ... you claim these things to be lies and anything negative are "plots of red hair-barbarians", to use the descriptions of that chap ironbutcherer ...
no ! no ! .. nothing happened ! .... fake goods, what not ... all untrue ! ...
while we, the consumers read about such things ... we look at the slim 10 cases, the walnut sex pills cases, the maling luncheon meat ban .... what kind of inference would we draw ourselves ? ... who would we believe ?
before one go around accusing the accusers of hidden agendas, why not just clean up the act and don't give no handles to other people ? ....
you can write all you like about babarian plots and biased western media all you like ... but people can see for themselves .... and it will all just be hollow words reminiscent of the 60's propaganda after all ....
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Most of American media have labelled the killings in Darfur as genocide.
Darfur? It’s the Oil, Stupid…
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/Geopolitics___Eurasia/Oil_in_Africa/oil_in_africa.html
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while we, the consumers read about such things ... we look at the slim 10 cases, the walnut sex pills cases, the maling luncheon meat ban .... what kind of inference would we draw ourselves ? ... who would we believe ?
Food safety cock ups and cover up is one thing.
Political plots and schemes is another thing.
Propaganda, all regimes spread propaganda.
Plot, all regimes plot.
Cover up, all regimes cover up.
Hidden agenda, everyone has agenda.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
while we, the consumers read about such things ... we look at the slim 10 cases, the walnut sex pills cases, the maling luncheon meat ban .... what kind of inference would we draw ourselves ? ... who would we believe ?
Food safety cock ups and cover up is one thing.
Political plots and schemes is another thing.
Propaganda, all regimes spread propaganda.
Plot, all regimes plot.
Cover up, all regimes cover up.
Hidden agenda, everyone has agenda.
oh ? ... so reporting about food safety scares and what not is not hidden political agendas ? .... I thought it's that's the gist of what you were saying just before ... keblakan pusing so fast liao ? ....
so ... food safety cock ups and cover ups, lead paints in toys and what not .... is what then ? .... actually the truth ? ...
so what's the hidden agenda of covering up the cock ups ? ... not to loose face ? ... how about just cleaning up the acts then ? .... same thing for tibet, same thing for tiananmen ..... don't blame other's media of playing up people being machine-gunned on the streets, don't do it if you don't want it spread all over the world ...
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Those articles I shown were written by an Aussie diplomat who specialises in china affairs. He has been dealing with China for decades. Those articles were published by Japan Times. Give me reasons why I cannot trust him or Japan Times?
If u look at my first post I have already proven that there are worse atrocites taking place elsewhere( Indian genocide in Kashmir) but yet the amount of western media coverage on Kashmir is so pathetic. Why? Because western media is delibrately focusing on China. Very obvious.
Western countries like Uncle Sam are indeed biased of china. Anyone who follows world affairs can see that. On one hand the western world(especially Uncle Sam) never stops talking about human rights abuses in China. (I have already proven that quite a lot of western accusations against china's human rights abuses are nothing but lies) but yet on the other the same western countries are ignoring the real massive human rights abuses happening in other countries.
Let me give an example: Saudi Arabia
Here are some links about saudi arabia's human rights abuses:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/apr2000/saud-a26.shtml
http://www.hrw.org/wr2k1/mideast/saudi.html
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE230572000
By Uncle Sam's standards, Saudi is definitely considered an evil state.
But yet Uncle Sam is ignoring what is going on there and is even supporting the Saudi despots. Read here:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/032800-01.htm
Why? Bcos Saudi Arabia serves US oil interests well and the USA is more than willing to turn a blind eye to the massive humans rights abuses over there. Hell... the US is even supplying weapons and arms to Saudi Arabia. Read here:
http://tinyurl.com/jttko
Not long ago EU nations were debating whether or not to lift the arms embargo imposed on China. Uncle Sam once again intervened saying that China should not be allowed to import weapons from Europe. Reason given by Uncle Sam is that China's human rights record is poor.
Here comes the question:
If Uncle Sam feels that countries with poor human rights record should not be allowed to buy weapons, then why is Uncle Sam itself more than willing to sell weapons to countries like Saudi Arabia? Can anyone pls answer my question?
One does not need to be a genius to tell that the US is indeed biased against China. So harsh with China and yet so lenient with Saudi Arabia. -
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Singapore is pro-USA and since the propaganda media is controlled by the state, it also spreads pro-USA propaganda.
That has no concern with me because I don't read Singapore mainstream propaganda media.
It is worthless.
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:10 arrested for protesting against rising prices
SINGAPORE police on Saturday arrested 10 people for holding a rally without a permit to protest against rising living costs, witnesses said.
Leading pro-democracy activist Chee Soon Juan was among the group who were bundled into police vans after plainclothes officers stopped them in front of a shopping mall in the business district, an AFP reporter and photographer said.
Chee is the leader of the Singapore Democratic Party, one of a handful of opposition parties in the city-state, which has been ruled by the People's Action Party since 1959.
About 18 protesters, including children, had earlier gathered outside parliament where they symbolically laid groceries on a sidewalk.
The police then stopped them just minutes after setting off for the Orchard Road shopping area, where they had planned another protest.
They wore red t-shirts with the words 'we cannot take it anymore' while others carried placards denouncing rising prices.
The 10 were arrested after ignoring police calls to disperse and lay down their placards, the witnesses said. Chee's activist sister was also apprehended.
Singapore, scarred by racial riots in the 1960s, has strict laws against public assembly, which require a police permit for a gathering of five or more people. -- AFP
http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/STIStory_217102.html
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Many Arab nations have oil but nothing else. All technologies are foreign. Don't sell oil, get no fresh water...hehe
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Another example: Olympic games
U.S. lawmakers and several entertainers using the Beijing olympics to pressure China to help bring an end to the Darfur crisis is proof of America's bias and unreasonable attitude against China.
Saudi Arabia is a country guilty of widespread human rights abuse. However, this massive human rights violator allows privileged U.S. access to its oil and serves U.S. (oil company) interests well. The United States therefore not only remains silent on Saudi human rights violations, it maintains thousands of military personnel in Saudi Arabia and actively supports and protects the regime.
If USA the most richest and powerful country in the world refuses to use its influence to do anything about the massive human rights violations happening in its Arab ally, Saudi Arabia, then why should these people expect China to do the same for Darfur?
After all China is nowhere as powerful as USA and is in a lesser position to influence globlal affairs aboard. They expect so much from China but yet can't be bothered to do anything about Saudi Arabia!!!
While the media and politicians of America are so critical of china for turning a blind eye to Darfur crisis, they themselves are silent on Saudi human rights crisis. Is this not hypocrisy?