The middle class Singaporean, Trapped?
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We have rising costs of general amenities. (Increase in GST and then still left with a frickin surplus)
We have the rising costs of public housing. (Coz of their bright idea of building 2 IRs at the same time and not taking pro active measures to cool the property market)
Then the government goes out of their way to keep our frickin wages low but loosening up laws to hire forgieners.
Being middle class, we will get almost no help, if any. I'm looking to get married soon and looking at housing....
My future looks damn bleak here in SG....
Do I stay and try and change this place for the better by doing my part? or do I cut my losses, pack up, and carve out a living someplace else.
Sigh... Decisions decisions...
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the vote lies in your hand. Every vote counts
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It is time for change in Singapore.
Singapore cannot continue the PAP style of rule any longer.
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PAP does not give a damn about the middle class in Singapore though many belong to this group.
If possible, you can consider migration.
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Originally posted by qlqq9:
PAP does not give a damn about the middle class in Singapore though many belong to this group.
If possible, you can consider migration.
The PAP will be happy with that, cuz it possibly mean one less vote against them. Every vote counts!
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
It is time for change in Singapore.
Singapore cannot continue the PAP style of rule any longer.
Whose style do you propose ?
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1) increase in taxes, and you're surprised there is a slight surplus? If I gave you a pay raise in the middle of the year, would you be surprised if you saved more money that year?
2) Rising cost of land can only be blamed on the people. Speculation is what causes bubbles. Sure, the IRs encourage speculation. So would a million other things. Should the gov stand still for fear of changing the status quo? That's ridiculous.
3) I'm interested to hear how the government "goes out of it's way" to keep your wages low. Seriously. I've heard this often...and I'm interested to hear why you would think so.
4) I'm looking to get married too, coincidentally. I've also been looking at housing. I've actually been surprised at how easy it seems to afford a 3 room HDB. Oh sure, it's not in the "popular" areas. So what? You're starting a new family...you're SUPPOSED to start from the bottom.
Last but not least, I need to stress that if anything, it is the people in the middle class that are devising the traps that they complain of. They spend like there's no tommorow, take out loans they don't need, and then complain they can't escape the poverty trap. It's downright laughable.
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migrate lo... but then must bite the bullet and earn as much u can 1st then migrate...
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We have rising costs of general amenities. (Increase in GST and then still left with a frickin surplus)
We have the rising costs of public housing. (Coz of their bright idea of building 2 IRs at the same time and not taking pro active measures to cool the property market)
Then the government goes out of their way to keep our frickin wages low but loosening up laws to hire forgieners.
Being middle class, we will get almost no help, if any. I'm looking to get married soon and looking at housing....
My future looks damn bleak here in SG....
Do I stay and try and change this place for the better by doing my part? or do I cut my losses, pack up, and carve out a living someplace else.
Sigh... Decisions decisions...
Whatever problem S'pore have..... your FREEDOM to leave is always guarantee.... if you think you could make it overseas, then start planning and do it..... don't just sit around and complaint......
If you think your life is bleak in SG....... you think it would be any better all alone in another Country
Without your family to support, your friends to help..... etc Your future Children would be the one to 'enjoy' the better life..... but the 1st 5-10yrs overseas will be nothing but hard work for you..... as you try to establish a new career, a new home, a new lifestyle.... etc. Some former S'porean made it....... some didn't. But with hard work...... you will most likely be sucessful...
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Originally posted by deathbait:
1) increase in taxes, and you're surprised there is a slight surplus? If I gave you a pay raise in the middle of the year, would you be surprised if you saved more money that year?
2) Rising cost of land can only be blamed on the people. Speculation is what causes bubbles. Sure, the IRs encourage speculation. So would a million other things. Should the gov stand still for fear of changing the status quo? That's ridiculous.
3) I'm interested to hear how the government "goes out of it's way" to keep your wages low. Seriously. I've heard this often...and I'm interested to hear why you would think so.
4) I'm looking to get married too, coincidentally. I've also been looking at housing. I've actually been surprised at how easy it seems to afford a 3 room HDB. Oh sure, it's not in the "popular" areas. So what? You're starting a new family...you're SUPPOSED to start from the bottom.
Last but not least, I need to stress that if anything, it is the people in the middle class that are devising the traps that they complain of. They spend like there's no tommorow, take out loans they don't need, and then complain they can't escape the poverty trap. It's downright laughable.
You totally missed the point !!1) Raise in GST - was it needed ? It came at a bad timing ... when things are bad.
So you got a raise in mid year ... but GST also raise - end up your raise may not even match the gst raise - you are poorer off ... but Government have surpluses !!!
2) Cost of land to raise is due to poor planning and estimation of the business need for office space by the government ... !!! This lead to shortage and thus speculation !!!3) Govt have been too easy on allowing foreign labours into the market .... this does affect the labour market for local ...!!! Local are been force out of jobs ....!
4) How much is your 3 bedroom HDB - how did you pay for it ? CPF ... yep off course you don't feel the pain .... as you really fork out nothing ... yet CPF will pay for it ... and long installment ! Don't be so cocky ... wait till you old then you find your CPF - pay flat .... after that what is left is not enough to see you through old age !!!I do not take out loan ... and i do not spend like no tomorrow !! But I do see my standard of living keep dropping !!! Govt policy is just for show for the poor !!! With much more benefit to the rich and themselves !!! For middle class there is totally nothing !!!
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ok, i will play the devil's adovcate;
- sg income tax is cheap!!
- business tax of $300k is tax free!
- tradies are cheap!
- HDB are made of brick, concrete and steel! no termites problem.
- good public transport.
- cheap food around, readily accessible.
- entertainment all over the place, almost 24x7.
- no need back-breaking gardening.
- no need DIY.
best of all, u dont have to plan how to live, govt will do it for u.
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best of all, u dont have to plan how to live, govt will do it for u.
Hahaha..... the part that Piss Off alot of ppl.....
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Originally posted by deathbait:...
4) I'm looking to get married too, coincidentally. I've also been looking at housing. I've actually been surprised at how easy it seems to afford a 3 room HDB. Oh sure, it's not in the "popular" areas. So what? You're starting a new family...you're SUPPOSED to start from the bottom.
sure or not? an average singapore girl will consider marrying a man and live in a 3room HDB flat these days?!
whatabout the usual 5Cs; credit card, condo, car, career? arent that the guidelines that ALL sg ladies use when it come to evaluate their future spouse's capability to provide for her in the long run?
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sure or not? an average singapore girl will consider marrying a man and live in a 3room HDB flat these days?!
whatabout the usual 5Cs; credit card, condo, car, career? arent that the guidelines that ALL sg ladies use when it come to evaluate their future spouse's capability to provide for her in the long run?
Reason why I'll prefer to remain single and WILL NEVER TRY to marry a S'pore girl....
Those SG Girls will be so 'Rare' as to be almost extinct....
If not..... why do think so many 'Blue Collar' and even some 'White Collar' workers are marrying foregin bride from less develop countries......
The sad truth is..... MONEY TALKS.....
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Originally posted by fishbuff:
sure or not? an average singapore girl will consider marrying a man and live in a 3room HDB flat these days?!
whatabout the usual 5Cs; credit card, condo, car, career? arent that the guidelines that ALL sg ladies use when it come to evaluate their future spouse's capability to provide for her in the long run?
Got question!
Then for those ah bengs that don't earn much one, how they get married ah?
Shotgun? -
Originally posted by fishbuff:
sure or not? an average singapore girl will consider marrying a man and live in a 3room HDB flat these days?!
whatabout the usual 5Cs; credit card, condo, car, career? arent that the guidelines that ALL sg ladies use when it come to evaluate their future spouse's capability to provide for her in the long run?
Don know where you got the idea that ALL sg ladies... i know some women look for that but they became disappointed and migrated. i also know some men are looking for girlfriends who can help them to provide the 5Cs, may be they also got frustrated and migrate...
think they ALL need to look into the mirror first before they look for other things.
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Originally posted by fishbuff:
sure or not? an average singapore girl will consider marrying a man and live in a 3room HDB flat these days?!
whatabout the usual 5Cs; credit card, condo, car, career? arent that the guidelines that ALL sg ladies use when it come to evaluate their future spouse's capability to provide for her in the long run?
Are you sure all SG ladies want the 5CsBtw Credit Cards are over rated. Cash is king not Credit Cards
Condo? I rather stay in HDB with more room space. I never use the facilities anyway.
Car? We don't have one because we don't need one
Career? He has his own and I have mine. I don't need him to provide for me and we share all the bills.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Got question!
Then for those ah bengs that don't earn much one, how they get married ah?
Shotgun?i guess it is asian social stratifications; that men will marry downwards and women marry upward.
alot of lao bengs i know marry foreigners. most stay single. they want to settle down but it is very difficult for them to find wives locally.
dont underestimate ah beng, what they lack in education, they make it up with their street smartness. one guy i knew only had sec 1 chinese education, but strived to be a successful phua chu kang type contractor driving C300 mercz and live in condo... still fulfill the 5Cs and married his sg wife, + 2 other mistresses :P
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Originally posted by elindra:
Are you sure all SG ladies want the 5CsBtw Credit Cards are over rated. Cash is king not Credit Cards
Condo? I rather stay in HDB with more room space. I never use the facilities anyway.
Car? We don't have one because we don't need one
Career? He has his own and I have mine. I don't need him to provide for me and we share all the bills.
sadly .... u are already happily married
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Originally posted by InnoHippo:
sadly .... u are already happily married
HeheheheMaybe because I don't have unrealistic expectations :P
And a good husband is better than a rich husband of not a good charc
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Not trying to take side..... just my 2 cents worth....
Is the Middle Class being 'Squeeze'
- No doubt about it.....Is it because of Govt's greed/mismanagment/whatever... etc
- A small part of it....Could more be done
- Now.... who would said no to that.... Can we do anything NOW
- Not much.... short of tightening our belt.Chose to Vote wisely - This advice is about as useful as praying for your problem to go away..... The next election is at least 3 more years away..... But WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TILL THEN
Just spend and spend and pray that the Opps will pay your bills for you after (IF) they won 
The SAF term will be ''Wait Long Long".....Move Overseas - If you think you could make it..... why not
Just remember that it wouldn't be easy and takes years of hardwork to establish yourself in your new Country..... so stop dreaming of instant ''Good Life'' just by leaving.... the ''Good Life'' part comes much later..... -
Originally posted by fishbuff:
i guess it is asian social stratifications; that men will marry downwards and women marry upward.
alot of lao bengs i know marry foreigners. most stay single. they want to settle down but it is very difficult for them to find wives locally.
dont underestimate ah beng, what they lack in education, they make it up with their street smartness. one guy i knew only had sec 1 chinese education, but strived to be a successful phua chu kang type contractor driving C300 mercz and live in condo... still fulfill the 5Cs and married his sg wife, + 2 other mistresses :P
I also saw one super big bungalow (I guess around 7000 to 8000 sq ft, 2 semi-Ds combined into one house). Everyday, they will take out chinese herbs and put in the sun to dry... So some of those chinese medicinal stores... might actually be earning damn a lot...
Then again, many of the street smart bengs actually become successful after settling down in marriage, so I guess the girl didn't think of long term when marrying ba.
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middle class singaporean trapped? i think it is their own undoing. unfortunately, it all boils down to poor financial management within the family. if you own a car that is beyond your means, take the holiday you can't afford or buy that LCD tv just to keep up with the joneses, then you are just digging your own hole deeper. i think it's high time we take a look at ourselves rather than to blame it elsewhere.
if one earns about $4-8k a month, household and have trouble living a decent living in singapore, they need to re-prioritize their needs versus wants.
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if u feel trap in mid-class, can always down grade to lower class de... like that got help liao and no long trap rite.
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middle class singaporean trapped? i think it is their own undoing. unfortunately, it all boils down to poor financial management within the family. if you own a car that is beyond your means, take the holiday you can't afford or buy that LCD tv just to keep up with the joneses, then you are just digging your own hole deeper. i think it's high time we take a look at ourselves rather than to blame it elsewhere.
if one earns about $4-8k a month, household and have trouble living a decent living in singapore, they need to re-prioritize their needs versus wants.
Sadly alot of S'poreans don't understand that.....
I have co-worker who sell their HDB below valua to get cash..... but die die still wants to keep their cars just because they scare loss face infornt of their friends.