Free Tibet!!!!
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No one should suffer under Chinese Communist Pigs ruling!!!!Tibet,Xinjiang and Taiwan should declare independence from Communist China. Fuk the Communist Pigs!!!!
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ok.
and pple like u shud not b given any freedumm.
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hmmmm
someone here is commie???
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Why?Becoz u are one of the Communist Pigs?Originally posted by udontknowme:
ok.
and pple like u shud not b given any freedumm.
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Those Communist Pigs forced ppl to resort to violence.I am sure even if the protestors holding a peaceful protest,the police will still violently stop the protest. If u are the protestors,protest peacefully also get beat up,protest violently also get beat up,which method of protest will u choose?
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let's see....i was born in Tomsk, Russia. then i moved to the US when i was 6. then i moved to Singapore when i was 7. On forms i am Canadian. my ancestors are from Portugal and China. i hold 3 passports.
what does that make me?? =D
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chup cheng kia
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First, I don't think the protest in Tibet was peaceful.
Secondly, I don't agree with China forcibly exerting it's influence over Tibet.
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If the Communist Party didnt brutualize the Tibetians and granted the Tibet and the Dalai Lama greater autonomy like the Pope in Rome, we wouldnt have this cycle of violence.
I used to respect the Dalai Lama but as a Buddhist how can he not try everything in his power to stop the violence.
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erm.
Why would he try to stop the violence when he's the one inciting it in the first place?
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He isnt, Comrade Deathbait. Glad to see PAP takes orders from the CCP.
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well ... if the tibetans were fighting like the chechens .... I don't think tibet would be under chinese rule today ....
I don't think the buddhist precepts of non-violence is applicable when invaders are taking over your homeland by force ....
what we are witnessing is cultural genocide .... import enough spare millions of han chinese into tibet, and within a generation or two it really would become an integral part of china by demographics ....
and while we're at it ... I'm going to hijack this thread and high-light what our southern neighbours are doing to west papua (which the indonesians call irian jaya) ....
unfortunately, while the tibetans has a religion so attractive to western actors, and a charismatic figurehead in the dalai lama, the west papuans are of negriod stock, goes around half naked with bow and arrows, and doesn't even fit the image of the noble savage very well .... so most of the world doesn't give a fark really ..... sucks isn't it ? ...
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
He isnt, Comrade Deathbait. Glad to see PAP takes orders from the CCP.
He isn't?
Really?
I coulda sworn he was campaigning for Tibetian independence. Are you so naive HE thinks it can be done without violence?
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Originally posted by Fatum:
well ... if the tibetans were fighting like the chechens .... I don't think tibet would be under chinese rule today ....
I don't think the buddhist precepts of non-violence is applicable when invaders are taking over your homeland by force ....
what we are witnessing is cultural genocide .... import enough spare millions of han chinese into tibet, and within a generation or two it really would become an integral part of china by demographics ....
and while we're at it ... I'm going to hijack this thread and high-light what our southern neighbours are doing to west papua (which the indonesians call irian jaya) ....
unfortunately, while the tibetans has a religion so attractive to western actors, and a charismatic figurehead in the dalai lama, the west papuans are of negriod stock, goes around half naked with bow and arrows, and doesn't even fit the image of the noble savage very well .... so most of the world doesn't give a fark really ..... sucks isn't it ? ...
Like I said in the other thread, cultural genoxide happens all the time. Putting genoxide in the phrase just makes it sound worse than it really is. Are you going to save the Australian Aboriginal people too? How about the Indians in the Americas?
Sure, it's bad...but it's a crime no one is innocent of. It's a fact of life. What do you think happened to Singapore? Would you like to revert this back to a fishing village to preserve it's culture too?
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"I coulda sworn he was campaigning for Tibetian independence. Are you so naive HE thinks it can be done without violence?"
Wait a sec did Singaporeans fight a guereilla war for the independence of Singapore? Last I heard Malaysia GAVE Singapore its independence.
"what we are witnessing is cultural genocide"
Yeah but its not WORSE than what happened in Australia 150 years ago. Look at the plight of Aborigines now - almost completely decimated, living in almost subhuman conditions. 150 years in the future China could say its sorry what.
Or it can now do or should have done is to address the economic inequalities the Tibetians face. Not interfere with their religion and not preach socialism.
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Originally posted by deathbait:
Like I said in the other thread, cultural genoxide happens all the time. Putting genoxide in the phrase just makes it sound worse than it really is. Are you going to save the Australian Aboriginal people too? How about the Indians in the Americas?
Sure, it's bad...but it's a crime no one is innocent of. It's a fact of life. What do you think happened to Singapore? Would you like to revert this back to a fishing village to preserve it's culture too?
because it "happens all the time", that makes it ... right ? ... you haven't answered me in that other thread yet ...
the australian goverment recently apologized to the aboroginal people too ...
and to bring up Singapore is a stupid example ... maybe your ancestors came here as invaders, but I'm quite sure mine came here as peaceful peasant farmers under the british, before we coalesced and emerged as a nation ...
and just because it used to be done in such a way, doesn't mean it's morally acceptable now ... once upon a time, widows were burnt together with their husbands at funerals .... once upon a time, it was alright to sell opium to china .... of course, at that time, china didn't have much of a say in it then .... does that makes it right now ? ...
why don't I rephrase things for you ... what you're really trying to say ... is that because it's china, and china is powerful today, so basically no one can really say no ... and the tibetans should just suck it up and become chinese, right ? ....
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
"I coulda sworn he was campaigning for Tibetian independence. Are you so naive HE thinks it can be done without violence?"
Wait a sec did Singaporeans fight a guereilla war for the independence of Singapore? Last I heard Malaysia GAVE Singapore its independence.
"what we are witnessing is cultural genocide"
Yeah but its not WORSE than what happened in Australia 150 years ago. Look at the plight of Aborigines now - almost completely decimated, living in almost subhuman conditions. 150 years in the future China could say its sorry what.
Or it can now do or should have done is to address the economic inequalities the Tibetians face. Not interfere with their religion and not preach socialism.
So you ARE that naive. You DO think the tibetians will gain independence without violence.
Erm. Have you even SEEN an Aborigine? In that twisted fantasy of yours, do they live in caves? Aborigines left in Australia are given equal, if not more rights than the average Australian. Much in the same way Malays are given special previleges in Singapore.
Cultures rise and cultures fall. If you want to protect cultures, let's also take to task the Tibetians for destroying cultures long past to create the one they have now. Just because an event is tragic does not mean it is not the natural course of things.
Tibet IS part of China now. Has been for many years. Entire generations have been born under the current arrangement. And NOW you want to liberate Tibet?
BTW, Singapore has had it's own violent riots. Hey I remember stories of a Malay one. Should we all leave now and return it to the native Malays? Or do you deny our presence here has had a significant impact on it's "culture"?
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"Erm. Have you even SEEN an Aborigine? In that twisted fantasy of yours, do they live in caves?"
Comrade Deathbait, go read or Google the Australian newspapers on the plight of the Aborigines and their standard of living. The majority are not living in the suburbs. At least they dont HIDE their problems or sweep them under the rug, unlike some island nation.
"You DO think the tibetians will gain independence without violence"
The Dalai Lama is not seeking independence but greater autonomy. Are you advocating violence now?
"BTW, Singapore has had it's own violent riots. Hey I remember stories of a Malay one. Should we all leave now and return it to the native Malays? Or do you deny our presence here has had a significant impact on it's "culture"?"
I would say the Chinese presence had a significant beneficial impact on Malay culture whether be it in Malaysia and Singapore BECAUSE the Chinese didnt impose their religion or SOCIALISM on them by force.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
because it "happens all the time", that makes it ... right ? ... you haven't answered me in that other thread yet ...
the australian goverment recently apologized to the aboroginal people too ...
and to bring up Singapore is a stupid example ... maybe your ancestors came here as invaders, but I'm quite sure mine came here as peaceful peasant farmers under the british, before we coalesced and emerged as a nation ...
and just because it used to be done in such a way, doesn't mean it's morally acceptable now ... once upon a time, widows were burnt together with their husbands at funerals .... once upon a time, it was alright to sell opium to china .... of course, at that time, china didn't have much of a say in it then .... does that makes it right now ? ...
why don't I rephrase things for you ... what you're really trying to say ... is that because it's china, and china is powerful today, so basically no one can really say no ... and the tibetans should just suck it up and become chinese, right ? ....
the Tibetens HAVE sucked it up and became chinese. Once more, I need to repeat this. The invasion happened DECADES ago.
And invasion is an invasion. It matters not if there was violence. An invasion by any other name is still an invasion. My ancestors DID move here. Their presence DID have an adverse effect in preserving the local culture. Yours probably did too, and if so, it's high time you got off your high horse and admit it.
LOL at your example of burning widows. Good on you. You have just raised an example of a culture that was merged with another to create new ones. The reason we don't still have it is because the traditions have interacted with others and merged.
We're Asian. Our culture is mostly biased towards males. It is the influx of western culture post-feminism that affected our own, forcing a merging of ideas that led to gender equality. Would you like to revert back now? To save your dying culture?
Btw, the australians are apologising for GENOXIDE...you know, the REAL THING. Not cultural genoxide, or whatever fancy name you put on it. The australians delibrately went about trying to reduce the native population. That's what they're apologising for.
Cultures dying or mutating has nothing to do with morals. It is simply the winds of change. It is the natural order. It has no right or wrong. When a nation loses a culture, it always gains a new one. That's how it is. Like I've said many times...the Tibetians alone would probably have experienced many cultures throughout the ages that have risen and fallen to new ones. And you're so excited about saving the current one. Do you not realise it is itself responsible for destroying it's predecessor? Should we revive THAT one instead? If we trace it back far enough, Tibetians weren't even buddhists. Should we now proceed to destroy the temples there for invading the tibet culture?
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NATO ..
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
"Erm. Have you even SEEN an Aborigine? In that twisted fantasy of yours, do they live in caves?"
Comrade Deathbait, go read or Google the Australian newspapers on the plight of the Aborigines and their standard of living. The majority are not living in the suburbs. At least they dont HIDE their problems or sweep them under the rug, unlike some island nation.
"You DO think the tibetians will gain independence without violence"
The Dalai Lama is not seeking independence but greater autonomy. Are you advocating violence now?
"BTW, Singapore has had it's own violent riots. Hey I remember stories of a Malay one. Should we all leave now and return it to the native Malays? Or do you deny our presence here has had a significant impact on it's "culture"?"
I would say the Chinese presence had a significant beneficial impact on Malay culture whether be it in Malaysia and Singapore BECAUSE the Chinese didnt impose their religion or SOCIALISM on them by force.
The plight of the Aborigines have little to do with the loss of culture. They faced discrimination for many years, and have only recently come out of the shadow. No idea why you think this is even relevant.
Also, is the path to autonomy going to be non-violent? Twisting the words around will not change the fact that any change will have to result from violence.
Beneficial impact on malay culture? We're talking about change here. There is no good or bad. How would you know the changes China impose on Tibet will not result in benefits?
I have news for you uncle. We DID impose our ways on the malays. You see the temples and churches? The malays didn't wake up one day and decide to build them for fun. We came in and we DID change things. And that's all that matters. The native malays lost a culture and gained a new one. We are currently living in it.
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Originally posted by deathbait:
the Tibetens HAVE sucked it up and became chinese. Once more, I need to repeat this. The invasion happened DECADES ago.
And invasion is an invasion. It matters not if there was violence. An invasion by any other name is still an invasion. My ancestors DID move here. Their presence DID have an adverse effect in preserving the local culture. Yours probably did too, and if so, it's high time you got off your high horse and admit it.
LOL at your example of burning widows. Good on you. You have just raised an example of a culture that was merged with another to create new ones. The reason we don't still have it is because the traditions have interacted with others and merged.
We're Asian. Our culture is mostly biased towards males. It is the influx of western culture post-feminism that affected our own, forcing a merging of ideas that led to gender equality. Would you like to revert back now? To save your dying culture?
Btw, the australians are apologising for GENOXIDE...you know, the REAL THING. Not cultural genoxide, or whatever fancy name you put on it. The australians delibrately went about trying to reduce the native population. That's what they're apologising for.
Cultures dying or mutating has nothing to do with morals. It is simply the winds of change. It is the natural order. It has no right or wrong. When a nation loses a culture, it always gains a new one. That's how it is. Like I've said many times...the Tibetians alone would probably have experienced many cultures throughout the ages that have risen and fallen to new ones. And you're so excited about saving the current one. Do you not realise it is itself responsible for destroying it's predecessor? Should we revive THAT one instead? If we trace it back far enough, Tibetians weren't even buddhists. Should we now proceed to destroy the temples there for invading the tibet culture?
funny you said the tibetans are sucking it up .... what do you call what we're seeing in the news then ? ... sucking it up ? ...
and your examples of cultural mergers raises contradictions ... why was widow burning, etc outlawed ? ... was it because of the absorption of another culture ? ... or bringing it in line with universal values ? ....
you still haven't answered my question, because it used to be done this way, does it make it right now ? .... once upon a time, in the eyes of western powers, it was alright to send gunboats up chinese rivers and to offload opium onto the chinese ... does it make it right now ? ... hong kong was taken over not just decades, but more than a CENTURY ago ... why was it right for the chinese to demand it back ? ... after all, the british created a functioning and prosperous society there didn't they ? ....
so why don't you just come out and say it, that you're saying it's right because it's china, and china is powerful, and there's nothing anyone can do a damm thing about it, and you're saying that whoever has the most guns and arms wins .... instead of crowing about the winds of change and the passage of history and cultures being absorbed by another ....
you still haven't answered me about the Iraq-kuwait thingy yet btw ... or the Singapore question ... or you're someone who, if Singapore gets invaded by a foreign power, would hang the nation's flag on his balcony the day after the fall ? ....
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"and to bring up Singapore is a stupid example ... maybe your ancestors came here as invaders, but I'm quite sure mine came here as peaceful peasant farmers under the british, before we coalesced and emerged as a nation ..."
Yeah, coalesce and emerge as a nation. Without bloodshed. By your reasoning, Singapore should have fought a war of independence (and lost) if Malaysia didnt agree to secession.
Please read my thread carefully - I dont sanction whats has happened to the Tibetians because the Westerners has committed similar atrocities in the past. But the Communist Party of China can always point to them and use them as an excuse. And they can also apologize 150 years later. What benefits does total independence bring to a landlocked, mountainous region which ultimately depends on China for trade? I dont believe in cultural genocide has to happen - the Miao people still preserve their languages, customs and etc. as do other non Han minorities.
My ancestors came as traders and not as some peasant farming an island but lets not go there.
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"I have news for you uncle. We DID impose our ways on the malays. You see the temples and churches? The malays didn't wake up one day and decide to build them for fun. We came in and we DID change things. And that's all that matters. The native malays lost a culture and gained a new one. We are currently living in it."
And all the mosques have disappeared right. Funny you mentioned CHURCHES. Arent they introduced by Western missionaries? Since when the native Malays stopped practising ISLAM and stopped speaking Malay?
"you still haven't answered me about the Iraq-kuwait thingy yet btw ... or the Singapore question ... or you're someone who, if Singapore gets invaded by a foreign power, would hang the nation's flag on his balcony the day after the fall ? ...."
Good question - why dont you ask the other 3 (+1) million people not just the elites in charge? Its a collective thing.