Free Tibet!!!!
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Tibet is part of China.
Their protest is not peaceful, innocent people were killed.
I don't support them.
Tibet can be separated from China. I support that.
But Lakota must be separated from USA as well.
That would be fair.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
Tibet is part of China.
Their protest is not peaceful, innocent people were killed.
I don't support them.
Tibet can be separated from China. I support that.
But Lakota must be separated from USA as well.
That would be fair.
again, you''re cute ... you're still playing the "teacher teacher, not fair ! ... why you only catch me, other people also cheating" game eh .....
did you read my thread ? ... I'm still waiting for your moral pronouncement .....
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I'm still waiting for your moral pronouncement .....
What moral pronouncement?
I'm not Dalai Lama.
China can get the fuck out of Tibet if the tibetans despise them.
But USA also get the fuck out of Lakota.
We can't be biased.
One free, the other not free.
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"this thing is as intractable as the israeli-palestinian issue."
Actually no I dont think it is. Nor should it spiral into such a situation. Like someone else said, Tibetians in China live way better lives than Palestineans. Ask any Palestinean. It is a virtual hellhole with zero infrastruture, no means of escaping the poverty, death and violence, with no hope at all unlike the Chinese developed Llhasa.
Palestineans can also fire all the rockets all they want - but it will not get them the state they desire. If China was a strong and powerful democratic country, it could be the honest broker that the Middle East needs, but thats just a fantasy.
Btw isnt Israel the invader of Arab land? And Israel didnt exist prior to 19xx (cant remember when).
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No point arguing IMHO. Fatum, I will support you if you can get a couple of Causasians to protest with you in front of the Chinese embassy, that way you will be immune to any PAP recriminations.
If not, will be like SDP stupid Indian, Chinese locals get arrested. If the Westerners really cared about democracy, they wouldnt set up news agencies in Singapore and report on the rest of the region but NOT SINGAPORE itself. To me that hypocrisy on the highest level. "Democracy for me, but none for thee"
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Palestineans can also fire all the rockets all they want - but it will not get them the state they desire.
Sad. As long as Israel oppressess them, they will resist.
Too bad no Dalai Lama figure for Palestine.
Maybe they will boycott Israel or something.
Nothing but political games.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
I'm still waiting for your moral pronouncement .....
What moral pronouncement?
I'm not Dalai Lama.
China can get the fuck out of Tibet if the tibetans despise them.
But USA also get the fuck out of Lakota.
We can't be biased.
One free, the other not free.
you obviously didn't read any of my arguments in the other thread ....
are you justifying the atrocities being conducted now by the PLA against the tibetans because other countries had similar episodes in their past ? ... because other countries did it too ? ....
I shall repeat my arguments for the FIFTH time ... aren't you like the spiteful little kid in school who got caught stealing or cheating, and instead of being ashamed ... goes around accusing the teacher of bias ..... shouldn't the kid actually be ashamed of cheating in the first place ? .....
"HAO DE BU XUE, XUE HUAI DE ?"... instead of picking up the good stuff from others ... you're saying to pick up the bad ? .... because someone else did it in the past too ? ....
I am beginning to suspect your personal moral code ..... or are you just defending the indefensible because of your racial and cultural pride ? .... eh ? ... i wonder what your idol that gopalan fellow over at the singaporedemocrat blog has to say about this ....
(mind you ... our goverment also says such democratic activists are instigated by foreign powers too you know ...
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What atrocities?
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"(mind you ... our goverment also says such democratic activists are instigated by foreign powers too you know ... " To divert attention from foreign powers propping up the regime what.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
What atrocities?
you're acting stupid or what ? ... is that all you have to say that to the above ? ...
or you're doing the ostrich act .... putting your head into the sand and pretending to see nothing ? ...
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Please Fatum take your moral outrage out on the Chinese government. PAP wont stop you if you got a group of Western students to protest with you because if they do, they will draw attention to their One party authoritian regine.
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you're acting stupid or what ? ... is that all you have to say that to the above ? ...
Seriously, what atrocities?
I have to see what type in order to make a reply.
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
"(mind you ... our goverment also says such democratic activists are instigated by foreign powers too you know ... " To divert attention from foreign powers propping up the regime what.
I'm afraid I lost you here .... what regime are you talking about ? ....
btw ... to quote, see that little gear thingy on the top right of each post ? ... click on it ... and select "Reply/Quote"....
I'm just showing up our friend Poh Ah Pak the chinese cultural chauvinist here the contradictions in his posts and thread at SC ... cos he likes to post passages from this Singapore overseas democratic activist chap's blog ..... both the PRC and Singapore goverment insinuates that such activists have hidden agendas, and that they are all instigated by foreign concerns ....
so it's amusing to me since he shows support in Singapore's case for the dissident activists but believes it all to be foreign plots in China's ..... I think the fellow is a bit confused ....
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I think the fellow is a bit confused ....
I mentioned in the past that I support democracy only when the conditions are ripe in a country.
Factors like literacy, economic development, working public institutions etc.
Singapore is ready, China I am not so sure.
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I dont think that Poh Ah Pak believes that the riots are foreign instigated or that the Dalai Lama actually ordered the riots (as opposed to what is coming out of the Communist Party). He disagrees, as I do, that Tibet should become an independent country.
Some of the Tibetians are protesting for COMPLETE independence (which the Dalai Lama does not advocate) whereas Singaporeans (would if they could) protest for free and fair elections and against an unfree media.
If you ask the Tibetians, not all of them would agree to independence as well. Its called democracy isnt it?
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No foreign power is propping up the PRC.
On the other hand Singapore is evidently being propped up by the USA ironically because the PAP always like to point out they have America's Navy ready to fight on Singapore's behalf. PAP says foreign powers behind activists to deflect attention.
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I support tibetan independence provided that Lakota is also made independent from USA.
If Tibet becomes independent, I see no reason why Lakota shouldn't.
PAP says foreign powers behind activists to deflect attention.
Did PAP provide evidence or the usual bullshit?
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
I think the fellow is a bit confused ....
I mentioned in the past that I support democracy only when the conditions are ripe in a country.
Factors like literacy, economic development, working public institutions etc.
Singapore is ready, China I am not so sure.
don't avoid the uncomfortable fact that i've pointed out .... you do have a penchant for posting up passages from that chap's site ... together with a few one liners from yourself. ..... I shall remind you again that our goverment has also insinuated in the past that people like your idol there have hidden agendas, and are instigated by foreign powers ....
so do you not believe in what our goverment says ? ... and you are believing in what the chinese goverment says ? .... see the non-sequitter here ? .... tell me ... are you Singaporean ? ....
and isn't it funny, so you say you support democracy ? .... but not for tibet ? ... did the people of tibet have a choice of choosing to be part of china or not ? .... or do you say conditions are not right ? .. when would be the conditions be right for a conquered people ? .... when the culture is dead, the people assimilated ? ... so you do have double standards don't you ? .... again ... it's really the chinese cultural chauvinist part of you speaking isn't it ? .... so when are you posting those gopalan passages again ? ...
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
I support tibetan independence provided that Lakota is also made independent from USA.
If Tibet becomes independent, I see no reason why Lakota shouldn't.
you think repeating the same thing over and over again is going to make it sound right ? .... dare not reply directly to my reply ? .... that you have to make a fresh post ? ....
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what chinese cultural chauvinist?
That reminds me of PAP tactics.
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"did the people of tibet have a choice of choosing to be part of china or not ?"
No they didnt, neither does any province of China for that matter. We dont have choices of being BORN citizens of whatever countries either.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
what chinese cultural chauvinist?
That reminds me of PAP tactics.
ah ... trying to call me a PAP dude are you ... that is not going to help you ....
yes, you ... I label you a chinese cultural chauvinist ... and i think you are confused ... you claim to support democracy for singapore, but not for tibet, or china .... you like to quote passages from this chaps' blog and post them up in SC
http://singaporedissident.blogspot.com/2008/03/constitutional-law-for-singapore.html
but hey ! .. this chap is not even Singaporean anymore ... he's now an american citizen, granted political asylum in the united states .... our goverment has long insinuated that activists like these are motivated by hidden and foreign agendas ..... so now he snipes at the Singapore goverment, and you lap it all up and reproduce it all in this forum on his behalf .....
but you .... when it comes to tibet ... seems to totally believe china when they say it's all part of western hidden hegemonist plots to discredit china ..... how come ? ... do you see that it doesn't follow ? .... do you see that you're slapping yourself ? ....
you posted threads up here alleging singapore police brutality against those SDP demonstrators ...... but here you are trying to defend china when they put down the tibetans by force ? .... what were you thinking ? ...
so either you're really confused ... or you are defending the actions of this foreign country out of racial and cultural pride .... that is ... a chinese racial chauvinist ? ....
what would it be then ?....
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but you .... when it comes to tibet ... seems to totally believe china when they say it's all part of western hidden hegemonist plots to discredit china ..... how come ? ..
I didn't say I believed in PRC's statements.
I said there was bias and that bias is part of a political game.
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It is true that the US cruelty on the natives and other minority in the red indian continent shouldn't be an excuse for China to suppress the separatists in their own country.
In fact, china never use this as an excuse. I am surprised that they didn't use this. It is very obvious to compare "invasion to massacre a race that is protecting their own land and culture" and "suppressing violence separatist without shooting a single bullet"
But when we criticize, we have to understand what is our motivation. ok. if we criticize china internal affairs while ignoring a more serious wrongdoing done by US, we are practicing double standard and discrimination, and taking advantage of this time during Olympics preparation period.Come on, in less than 100 years, the red indians are being wiped out. For tibet which is under china rule for thousand years, still retain their culture, language, people. Look at indonesia please. We are educated people, pls do a comparison chart.
It is true that some past china leaders suppress the tibetans cruely, I condemned that too. I refernig to Mao Tze Dong. But during his era, the entire china nation is the victims be it in Tibet, Beijing, Shanghai and so on. Did Beijing declare independence because of this Mao Tze Dong? No. Now Mao is gone already. Are we going to do more thing to punish the victims? Of coz not. -
"he's now an american citizen, granted political asylum in the united states"
Make no mistake, if the USA wanted to make a regime change in Singapore, it would be over in 2 seconds flat and the much touted American Navy would be shelling Singapore instead of protecting it. If anyone has a "foreign power" agenda, it would be the PAP.