Who is selling out Singapore?
-
The PAP have: 1) Sold one of our power stations to a communist regime and have intentions of selling the remaining two to them in the near future. 2) Invited foreign powers to sit on our National Wage Council and to decide how much money a Singaporean worker should be paid. 3) Suppressed the wages of Singaporean workers by wantonly inviting 'foreign talents' to take away our jobs. Thus, to compete with these 'talents', Singaporeans (while affected by inflation) have to lower their expectations. 4) Poured billions into foreign banks (which they probably won't be able to recover), while denying Singaporeans adequate welfare. And while this is going on, we have propagandists coming in here and calling Chee Soon Juan an 'agent of foreign powers'! I will let the astute reader judge for himself or herself who exactly is selling out Singapore. Crew
-
while i have no knowledge on the others, point number 1 actually helps singaporeans..
-
point no1 help the pap elite it does not benefit most singaporeans. The person who benefited is the directors who sit on the board earning million of dollar
-
it earns them money.. but it helps singaporeans..
-
so....other ppl investing in our stuff is bad...ok
in that same stream of thought...how is investing in other countries bad again?
You can't have it both ways. Either money pouring out is good, or money pouring in is good.
-
Why sell all 3? Profits decreasing? Temasek running out of dough?
-
Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
Why sell all 3? Profits decreasing? Temasek running out of dough?
sales of the power plants is to allow for competition among the companies that bought the power plants.. to see which company can offer a lower price for their electricity.. -
Let me tell you guys about point number one. PAP just sold one of our power stations to a communist regime and intend to sell the other 2 later. It doesn't benefit us at all! How on earth would placing us at the mercy of a communist regime help us?? Do you know what that means? It means we have communist China having full authority to decide how much Singaporeans should pay for their electricity. Let's say the bills skyrocket later on and disgruntled residents complain to their MPs. And you know what the MPs will say then? "Sorry, it is not our problem anymore. Talk to China, please." I don't buy that crap about 'sales of power plants to private companies'. Huaneng is about as private as Temasek Holdings. Competition among the companies to see who can offer a lower price... yeah right. I just have this one question. If the PAP want lower pricing for our electricity, why don't they just lower the rates?? If they can't even do that without China helping them, we might as well just hire the Chinese Premier to be our leader. Tell all the high priced PAP ministers to get out. And deathbait said: "so....other ppl investing in our stuff is bad...ok" You are not quoting me correctly, deathbait. It is not just about 'other ppl investing in our stuff'. It is about our government selling public institutions to foreign powers! And placing the public at the mercy of a communist regime! Crew
-
Originally posted by Singa Crew:
Let me tell you guys about point number one.
PAP just sold one of our power stations to a communist regime and intend to sell the other 2 later.
It doesn’t benefit us at all! How on earth would placing us at the mercy of a communist regime help us?? Do you know what that means? It means we have communist China having full authority to decide how much Singaporeans should pay for their electricity. Let’s say the bills skyrocket later on and disgruntled residents complain to their MPs. And you know what the MPs will say then? “Sorry, it is not our problem anymore. Talk to China, please.”
I don’t buy that crap about ‘sales of power plants to private companies’. Huaneng is about as private as Temasek Holdings.
Competition among the companies to see who can offer a lower price… yeah right. I just have this one question. If the PAP want lower pricing for our electricity, why don’t they just lower the rates?? If they can’t even do that without China helping them, we might as well just hire the Chinese Premier to be our leader. Tell all the high priced PAP ministers to get out.
And deathbait said: “so….other ppl investing in our stuff is bad…ok”
You are not quoting me correctly, deathbait. It is not just about ‘other ppl investing in our stuff’. It is about our government selling public institutions to foreign powers! And placing the public at the mercy of a communist regime!
Crew
been waiting for u to say that..i can conclude you don't know who's in charge of our electricity bills.. clearly you think that the generation plants are the ones in charge of deciding how much we pay..
TEHHHHH! WRONG!
get ur facts right before screaming.. i'll be waiting for ur next wrong move..
-
I said: 'If the PAP want lower pricing for our electricity, why don’t they just lower the rates?' Not: 'The generation plants are in charge of our electricity bills.' Clearly you have no idea how pervasive the PAP machinery is if you think they are not in charge of deciding how much we pay for our electricity. Crew
-
they dunid china to help them lower the pricing.. they need private companies to come and buy over the power plants and let the companies bid for the lowest price in order to sell energy to the consumers.. this way they earn the money and consumers benefit from cheaper electricity..
of coz, they can lower the rates, and make a loss, n consumers are oso happy, but if u are in charge of the company will u do that?
-
technically, if the government wants to lower the cost of essentials or utilities, it can. or implement controversial policy like for e.g. all 3 room HDB flat owners are exempted from paying utilities. it can shape the policy in whichever ways it deem fit. however, by privatising it , it is not its call. it is keeping an arms length, though the government can still intervene if it wants to.
in communist china, altho' inflation is running at double digits, the cost of a subway ride was reduced 3 months ago from 3rmb to 2 in beijing. by right, it should be charging more because it is revamping all the stations and adding new lines so it can be a showpiece during the olympics, but it chooses to reduce the ticket charge.
this can happen in an absolute government. singapore has a similar model too.
-
Originally posted by Singa Crew:
The PAP have:
1) Sold one of our power stations to a communist regime and have intentions of selling the remaining two to them in the near future.
2) Invited foreign powers to sit on our National Wage Council and to decide how much money a Singaporean worker should be paid.
3) Suppressed the wages of Singaporean workers by wantonly inviting ‘foreign talents’ to take away our jobs. Thus, to compete with these ‘talents’, Singaporeans (while affected by inflation) have to lower their expectations.
4) Poured billions into foreign banks (which they probably won’t be able to recover), while denying Singaporeans adequate welfare.
And while this is going on, we have propagandists coming in here and calling Chee Soon Juan an ‘agent of foreign powers’! I will let the astute reader judge for himself or herself who exactly is selling out Singapore.
Crew
not to mention... increasing the salaries of gahmen bodies while reducing everyone else's salary...
-
Originally posted by redDUST:
technically, if the government wants to lower the cost of essentials or utilities, it can. or implement controversial policy like for e.g. all 3 room HDB flat owners are exempted from paying utilities. it can shape the policy in whichever ways it deem fit. however, by privatising it , it is not its call. it is keeping an arms length, though the government can still intervene if it wants to.
in communist china, altho' inflation is running at double digits, the cost of a subway ride was reduced 3 months ago from 3rmb to 2 in beijing. by right, it should be charging more because it is revamping all the stations and adding new lines so it can be a showpiece during the olympics, but it chooses to reduce the ticket charge.
this can happen in an absolute government. singapore has a similar model too.
hmm.. i'm not sure about that so i wun comment abt it..
but what they are doing now is that the singapore power market is governed by the Energy Market Authority, and under it there's the Energy Market Company(EMC).. EMC is in charge of the sales of electricity from the generation companies(aka genco) to the consumers..
between the gencos and the consumers, there is the transmission and distribution system(aka transco), run by SP PowerGrid, basically its the wiring business.. the gencos are the part which the temasek holdings is selling becoz the transco is run by them still.. and without wire, no electricity.. so basically, the govt still directly in control of the system.. the transco will remain a monopoly becoz its not feasible to let two companies run two different cable systems all over singapore as wires are undergrd.
how the gencos sell electricity is not "i want sell how much per unit, i sell".. the gencos have to sign agreements with EMC to take part in the bidding system before they are allowed to generate.. and as i mentioned, lowest bidder sells his electricity to the public.. and this bidding is half-hourly bid system.. they will send in 48 sets of bids(meaning for 1day).. and the lowest bidder will sell..
this way, they are in control of the whole thing, just that they see who can sell the cheapest priced energy.. they choose not to lower the rates for a few possible reasons..one of them is coz monopolies do not have incentives to cut costs during generation, eg, use more efficient generators, buy better equipment, whereas for pte companies, lower cost = more profit..
-
How are we at the mercy of a communist regime? Details?
-
Wait a minute here,if the PAP lower the rates,they will make losses,but if other private companies lower the rates,those companies wont make a loss? If those private companies will also incur losses by lower the rates,who want to invest over the power plants?Can u tell me which are the companies who are so stupid?Originally posted by purpledragon84:
they dunid china to help them lower the pricing.. they need private companies to come and buy over the power plants and let the companies bid for the lowest price in order to sell energy to the consumers.. this way they earn the money and consumers benefit from cheaper electricity..
of coz, they can lower the rates, and make a loss, n consumers are oso happy, but if u are in charge of the company will u do that?
-
maybe PAP made an agreement to swap one Singapore's power plant with 5 China's power plants?
-
Originally posted by drawer:
Wait a minute here,if the PAP lower the rates,they will make losses,but if other private companies lower the rates,those companies wont make a loss? If those private companies will also incur losses by lower the rates,who want to invest over the power plants?Can u tell me which are the companies who are so stupid?
as i said, when u have a monopoly.. or a govt body in charge, there is a tendency to waste, and costs go up as a result.. take for eg SAF.. u dun see them cutting costs and stuff when it came to using resources..office light/aircon switch on thru the night, everything use finish just "indent new one lo.. govt pay mah.."
but when u have private, for-profit companies, they will tend to cut costs.. and whatever price they bid will be the price they are capable of making a profit with, because they will be willing to spend on better technology, they have more efficient generators producing more electricity using lesser fuel, and have better planning of their own to bid for a lower price..
a monopoly wun do that.. all monopolies have no incentive to improve, including PAP(all the anti-PAP ppl will be quoting this phrase), but its not something that u can blame PAP for.. its only economics..
p.s: Im not a supporter of PAP.. but I don't support opposition either.. i comment only when the truth is being manipulated.. and in this case TS is manipulating the news sales of the power plant in a wrong way.. omitting details(be it intentional or unintentional) and trying to mislead "the astute reader"
-
also, china itself is slowly and surely trying to do this.. in fact, other countries are trying to do this.. privatising the generation and while keeping the transmission in monopoly.. this is the deregulation of market power.. which is better than the old way of vertically integrated monopoly, where the govt is in charge of everything, coz when u are in charge of everything, u lose efficiency, costs increase, and prices increase..
-
Ok,u explain very clearly on that.Lets do hope it will ultimately lower the cost of electricity if it is privatise.But frankly speaking,i dont trust the PAP words.
Like the bus companies,they are all GLC companies.So on preface,they are privatised.But in fact,if they want to raise bus fare,they will not care about the commuters and go ahead with the fare hike.Becoz they are all GLC companies,the so-called competition is "fake".
-
Originally posted by drawer:
Ok,u explain very clearly on that.Lets do hope it will ultimately lower the cost of electricity if it is privatise.But frankly speaking,i dont trust the PAP words.
Like the bus companies,they are all GLC companies.So on preface,they are privatised.But in fact,if they want to raise bus fare,they will not care about the commuters and go ahead with the fare hike.Becoz they are all GLC companies,the so-called competition is "fake".
actually for us it wun have much of an effect.. the decrease/increase in price may not even show up.. the affected ones are commercial/industrial level consumers.. small residential consumers like us are sheltered from huge fluctuations by SP services.. they keep our prices in control.. becoz they buy electricity from the generators in bulk on our behalf..
oh yah.. in 2009 or a few years after that they going to change all our electricity meters liao.. next time no monthly bill liao.. will become like use ezlink card or use petrol like that liao, u use how much u pay how much.. marine parade a few blocks of hdb in the trial stages of that le..
-
Let me see, an argument for competition to bring down prices....hmm. Just like our public transport system. Did any of you guys see a lowering of our transport expenses?
Call me stupid, but I understand that a REAL competition is just like a 100m dash. You put 8 people and make them run the same route under the same condition. There a winner emerge.
Sometimes I hoped they do that for bus routes, open up to different companies, similiar routes and see some real competition, and savings for commuters. But that will never happen : )
Competition is a poltical word, use by businessman to convince politicians who in turn use the word to convince us that there is REAL competition. And any smart ass can peer thru acnd see that actually, no REAL competition really takes place.
So I am not surprise at all that everytime an issue like this emerge, some kind citizen will appear and teach us a lesson or two on something he picked up from a textbook.
-
Originally posted by urbanomad:
Let me see, an argument for competition to bring down prices....hmm. Just like our public transport system. Did any of you guys see a lowering of our transport expenses?
Call me stupid, but I understand that a REAL competition is just like a 100m dash. You put 8 people and make them run the same route under the same condition. There a winner emerge.
Sometimes I hoped they do that for bus routes, open up to different companies, similiar routes and see some real competition, and savings for commuters. But that will never happen : )
Competition is a poltical word, use by businessman to convince politicians who in turn use the word to convince us that there is REAL competition. And any smart ass can peer thru acnd see that actually, no REAL competition really takes place.
So I am not surprise at all that everytime an issue like this emerge, some kind citizen will appear and teach us a lesson or two on something he picked up from a textbook.
as i said.. the sales of that generation plant does not influence residential users very much at all.. becoz our bills are not controlled by the generation plant.. its controlled by our govt still.. so whether the price of the elctricity bill goes up or down, it is not related in any way to the sales of our power plant.. and if anyone blames the price of the bill to the sales of the power plant, be it the govt OR the TS, i can assure you the person is lying thru his teeth.. thats y i made all the comments that i made, to stop the TS from influencing the "astute reader" because he omitted details..
my point for real competition affecting electricity prices is not of concern here to residents, but more for industries.. real competition or not, i dun gif two hoots..
but when the implementing of the smart electricity meters occur in the future, that allows you to see how much electricity you are using at any moment of the day.. and consumption with awareness will save u money.. well thats what they promise.. i'm just waiting for it to happen..
-
Monopoly replaced by cartel is more my thinking. Anti-competition laws of Singapore are a farce - cant be applied to GLCs etc. dare the PAP sue a state owned Chinese company and risk the political fallout?
-
Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
Monopoly replaced by cartel is more my thinking. Anti-competition laws of Singapore are a farce - cant be applied to GLCs etc. dare the PAP sue a state owned Chinese company and risk the political fallout?
har? why they want to sue the company?