TW election
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
There are times when I expose the negative deeds and ways of PAP, people just tell me off. These people deserve to be suck dry by the evil PAP.
PAP regime need this type of naive and gullible people to support and vote for them.
If all like you and me, PAP regime can't even last 10 seconds in power.
It does not take long for people who care to know about good and evil to see through the evil, selfish ways of PAP. The only way to console ourselves is they will reap what they sow.
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We need change, at least show to pap the ground sentiment by voting in more oppositions, enough is enough, tak boleh tahan
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
There are times when I expose the negative deeds and ways of PAP, people just tell me off. These people deserve to be suck dry by the evil PAP.
PAP regime need this type of naive and gullible people to support and vote for them.
If all like you and me, PAP regime can't even last 10 seconds in power.
And I don't think the oppostion can run the country better than the PAP either. A sad state for the politics of singapore.While we need a stronger opposition, we need a opposition that can do a better job than the ruling party.
How do you think the KMT was relected into power? It is because the KMT can convince people that they can manage the country better than the DPP.
Can a opposition party in singapore do that? I don't think so. Those guliable people in singapore are sensible in a sense that bread and butter issue like the economy needs to be the first issue to tackle.
There is no closer links between the government and people other than economy. Economy is the basic principle of being able to manage a country well. A democratic country is USELESS if the people can't feed or afford a good standard of living.
Look at africa, a few of them are a democratic country, yet it is hardly a safe or nice country for most people to live in.
There is a clear line between a greater opposition voice, and having the oppositon being able to led the country.
If people is like some of the members here, thinking that econmical woes are not that important as compared to a more free or liberal singapore, then singapore is in a worst state.
Taiwan has told us that we should not elect a oppostion into power for the sake of democracy, it told us that what is needed is a opposition that can threaten the ruling party control, and force them to do and perform better.
We NEED a opposition that can do a better job than the PAP.
Democracy works if the ruling party can perform well enough, improve people's standard of living. Hence singapore is still enjoying the benefit of democracy.
But that alone isn't enough, it needs a opposition to threaten the ruling power's position so that the ruling party will need to know what is in the interest of singaporeans. Hence the opposition needs to understand it NEEDS to do a better job than the PAP.
While PAP needs to know that a democratic country requires more opposition to work, the opposition needs to know that they need to run a country better than the previous ruling party. If they cannot do so, they are letting the people down.
BOTH the PAP and the opposition party in singapore have yet to meet the basic principle of democracy.
Perhaps when a opposition finally prove that they can be better than PAP in managing of singapore's economy, then that will be the day when singapore experience true democracy.
And some people are not even democratic at all in taiwan. There is one DPP politician who said that people who voted for the KMT isn't taiwanese, and she is abandoning taiwan.
Another pan green celeb said that those overseas taiwanese who come back and vote isn't human.
How is that democratic at all?
Singaporeans who are pro-opposition, STOP looking at the surface of the world's politics. Just because some other country is more democratic than singapore does NOT mean they are a perfect example to follow.
The same as the US, the US is perfectly willingly to side with saddam as long he is pro-US, when he isn't, the US will try and spread democracy and depose him.
Nevermind if Iraq is worse off under occupation because spreading democracy is SOOOO right. Even the US has lots of politics that is just as dirty as the singapore politics.
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Originally posted by t_a_s:
Their president is limited to two term, singapore can learn from them by limiting the post of PM to two term and abolish the post of SM & MM to save $8 million per annum.This is called efficiency, and integrity
YES I AGREE! SACK SM AND MM!
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I expect no less that Ma will glorify Democracy with TW in years to come and become the most vibrant and matured democracy for all of Asia to follow. TW economy will definitely boom.
sgpore should learn from TW in several aspects.
To sound and remain neutral, i would say that sgpore is good in developing the city infrastructure, altho it is tiny. it has a lot to catchup in improving the Quality of Life.
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Feel so happy that KMT has won the election.
But I think Ma Ying Jieo will have hard time to manage the country.
Under the Chen Shui Bian's rule for 8 years, he has used up the reserves and increase debts from 2.4 trillion to 13.5 trillion $NT. I am not surprised as people who can betray its own culture and racial identity, of course can betray the people who elected them.
But the amount of loss is too huge, the pro-independence DPP has got so many corrupted officials and yet they still can remain in power for 8 years. I must admit they really skillful in election, propaganda and brainwashing technic. -
And I don't think the oppostion can run the country better than the PAP either. A sad state for the politics of singapore.
Well, KMT was the ruling party 8 years ago, and DPP was the opposition.
KMT had been ruling ROC and Taiwan even before WW2, DPP then had no experience. Taiwan moved from an agricultural country, to industrialized, to high tech....
People wanted a change, so DPP was given 8 years, economic growth changed from the leader of the 4 dragons to the tail of the dragons.
Now Ma is elected as the ruling party, he does not have the benefits of what ah bian inherited. This is a 烂摊å�。
Will DPP now be a good opposition?
Whether ruling party or opposition party, it is important to know how capable they are.
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Taiwan's economy is way ahead of Singapore because of Democracy.
Exerpts from Taipei Times:
As for Singapore, its economic growth potential is between 4 percent and 6 percent, data from its trade and industry department shows, equivalent to Taiwan's 5 percent. However, Singapore's distribution of income has worsened considerably: its Gini coefficient, an indicator of distribution of wealth between 0 and 1, where higher numbers indicate greater disparity, outstripped the US in 2006 and reached 0.485 last year.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
3. buy frozen meat
PAP regime is spreading a lot of propaganda in the manistream media, telling people to buy frozen meat.
They really like to control people using propaganda.
frozen meat really taste the same as normal chilled wet market meat.serious. a lot of pple still dun believe one.
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Originally posted by hiphop2009:
frozen meat really taste the same as normal chilled wet market meat.serious. a lot of pple still dun believe one.
see, above example shows the effect of ....proppagantensporeans will do what is told.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Taiwan's economy is way ahead of Singapore because of Democracy.
Exerpts from Taipei Times:
As for Singapore, its economic growth potential is between 4 percent and 6 percent, data from its trade and industry department shows, equivalent to Taiwan's 5 percent. However, Singapore's distribution of income has worsened considerably: its Gini coefficient, an indicator of distribution of wealth between 0 and 1, where higher numbers indicate greater disparity, outstripped the US in 2006 and reached 0.485 last year.
Democracy and economics is two seperate thing. If democracy is so important to economy, then you might as well say china's economy isn't improving due to democracy.
And bear in mind that in the early years of taiwan's economic development, they are under MARTIAL LAW.
Moreover, Gini cefficient cannot be said to be without problems.
Disadvantages of Gini coefficient as a measure of inequality
- The Gini coefficient of different sets of people cannot be averaged to obtain the Gini coefficient of all the people in the sets: if a Gini coefficient were to be calculated for each person it would always be zero. When measuring its value for a large, economically diverse country, a much higher coefficient than each of its regions has individually will result. (The coefficient is usually applied to measurable nominal income rather than local purchasing power, tending to increase the calculated coefficient across larger areas.)
- For this reason the scores calculated for individual countries within the EU are difficult to compare with the score of the entire US: the overall value for the EU should be used in that case, 31.3[4], which is still much lower than the United States', 45.[5] Using decomposable inequality measures (e.g. the Theil index T converted by 1 − e − T into a inequality coefficient) averts such problems.
- The Lorenz curve may understate the actual amount of inequality if richer households are able to use income more efficiently than lower income households. From another point of view, measured inequality may be the result of more or less efficient use of household incomes.
- Economies with similar incomes and Gini coefficients can still have very different income distributions. This is because the Lorenz curves can have different shapes and yet still yield the same Gini coefficient. As an extreme example, an economy where half the households have no income, and the other half share income equally has a Gini coefficient of ½; but an economy with complete income equality, except for one wealthy household that has half the total income, also has a Gini coefficient of ½. In practice, such distributions do not exist, and therefore, the impact of different but realistic curves is less obvious.
- It measures current income rather than lifetime income. A society in which everyone earned the same over a lifetime would appear unequal because of people at different stages in their life; a society in which students study rather than save can never have a coefficient of 0. [6]
Problems in using the Gini coefficient
- Gini coefficients do include income gained from wealth; however, the Gini coefficient is used to measure net income more than net worth, which can be misinterpreted. For example, Sweden has a low Gini coefficient for income distribution and a higher Gini coefficient for wealth (the wealth inequality is low by international standards, but still significant: 5% of Swedish household shareholders hold 77% of the share value owned by households)[7]. In other words and as a normative statement: The Gini income coefficient should not be interpreted as measuring effective egalitarianism; and distribution of stock ownership does not appear to correlate to many recognized indicators of egalitarianism.
- Too often only the Gini coefficient is quoted without describing the proportions of the quantiles used for measurement. As with other inequality coefficients, the Gini coefficient is influenced by the granularity of the measurements. For example, five 20% quantiles (low granularity) will usually yield a lower Gini coefficient than twenty 5% quantiles (high granularity) taken from the same distribution. This is an often encountered problem with measurements.
- Care should be taken in using the Gini coefficient as a measure of egalitarianism, as it is properly a measure of income dispersion. Two equally egalitarian countries with different immigration policies may have different Gini coefficients.
- Greater equality in a society does not necessarily mean greater overall prosperity. The Gini Index cannot be used to directly measure prosperity.
General problems of measurement
- Comparing income distributions among countries may be difficult because benefits systems may differ. For example, some countries give benefits in the form of money while others give food stamps, which might not be counted by some economists and researchers[citation needed] as income in the Lorenz curve and therefore not taken into account in the Gini coefficient. America counts income before benefits, while France counts it after benefits, making America appear more unequal vis-a-vis France than it is.
- The measure will give different results when applied to individuals instead of households. When different populations are not measured with consistent definitions, comparison is not meaningful.
- As for all statistics, there may be systematic and random errors in the data. The meaning of the Gini coefficient decreases as the data become less accurate. Also, countries may collect data differently, making it difficult to compare statistics between countries.
As one result of this criticism, in addition to or in competition with the Gini coefficient entropy measures are frequently used (e.g. the Theil Index and the index of Atkinson). These measures attempt to compare the distribution of resources by intelligent agents in the market with a maximum entropy random distribution, which would occur if these agents acted like non-intelligent particles in a closed system following the laws of statistical physics.
And in general, using the GDP per captia, taiwan is still lower than us.
From the CIA factbook, singapore's growth rate is still higher than Taiwan. Same goes to our GDP per captia.
Singapore GDP - real growth rate:7.5% (2007 est.) Singapore GDP - per capita (PPP):$48,900 (2007 est.) Taiwan GDP - real growth rate:5.5% (2007 est.) Taiwan GDP - per capita (PPP):$29,800 (2007 est.) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/tw.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/sn.html
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Advantages of Gini coefficient as a measure of inequality
- The Gini coefficient's main advantage is that it is a measure of inequality by means of a ratio analysis, rather than a variable unrepresentative of most of the population, such as per capita income or gross domestic product.
- It can be used to compare income distributions across different population sectors as well as countries, for example the Gini coefficient for urban areas differs from that of rural areas in many countries (though the United States' urban and rural Gini coefficients are nearly identical).
- It is sufficiently simple that it can be compared across countries and be easily interpreted. GDP statistics are often criticised as they do not represent changes for the whole population; the Gini coefficient demonstrates how income has changed for poor and rich. If the Gini coefficient is rising as well as GDP, poverty may not be improving for the majority of the population.
- The Gini coefficient can be used to indicate how the distribution of income has changed within a country over a period of time, thus it is possible to see if inequality is increasing or decreasing.
- The Gini coefficient satisfies four important principles:
- Anonymity: it does not matter who the high and low earners are.
- Scale independence: the Gini coefficient does not consider the size of the economy, the way it is measured, or whether it is a rich or poor country on average.
- Population independence: it does not matter how large the population of the country is.
- Transfer principle: if income (less than the difference), is transferred from a rich person to a poor person the resulting distribution is more equal.
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Taiwan will have an outstanding President because behind every successful man, there's a woman. The soon to be first lady had show to be one supportive and impressive lady.
It was said that the simple lady had given up her studies so that Mr Ma was able to pursue his. She had show her sincerity and did not meddle in her husband political carrer. Taking a public bus and intending to keep her job even when Mr Ma is going to be The President had showed her intention to keep a low profile even in her future position as first lady.
Do we have one like this? Mrs GCT? Mrs LKY? Mrs LHL? Mrs.....
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
the Gini coefficient demonstrates how income has changed for poor and rich. If the Gini coefficient is rising as well as GDP, poverty may not be improving for the majority of the population.
As compared to 2000 when the DDP just came into power, taiwan's GDP - real growth rate was 6.3%. So unless you are telling me that the real growth rate did not drop... -
http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/080323/8/vwxp.html
Not all taiwanese is that democratic you know, Taiwan's former presidental advisor Jin mei ling critised Ma Yin Jeou simply because he was not born in taiwan, and saying that he isn't a taiwanese.
Then when her affliated party lost the election, she voice her disappointment in taiwanese and said that she will no longer be taiwanese. So people need to vote for the DPP just to say they are taiwanese. In a way, the enthnic group issue in taiwan is worse than singapore.
How is that a democratic society at work, if politicians do not even accept or acknowledge the people's wish.
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Originally posted by Lin Yu:
Taiwan will have an outstanding President because behind every successful man, there's a woman. ...
Do we have one like this? Mrs GCT? Mrs LKY? Mrs LHL? Mrs.....
Ho Ching aka Mrs Lee Hsien Loong, aka Mrs Unsmiling-Poor-Dress-Sense-despite-billions-in-her-pocket, is THE most powerful woman in Asia!!! How's that for outstanding?
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Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:
see, above example shows the effect of ....proppagantensporeans will do what is told.
well, there are some who enjoy living in the fence set by PAP.
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Originally posted by Lin Yu:
Taiwan will have an outstanding President because behind every successful man, there's a woman. The soon to be first lady had show to be one supportive and impressive lady.
It was said that the simple lady had given up her studies so that Mr Ma was able to pursue his. She had show her sincerity and did not meddle in her husband political carrer. Taking a public bus and intending to keep her job even when Mr Ma is going to be The President had showed her intention to keep a low profile even in her future position as first lady.
Do we have one like this? Mrs GCT? Mrs LKY? Mrs LHL? Mrs.....
Forget about the first lady here. All related to PAP will not be humble.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
Ho Ching aka Mrs Lee Hsien Loong, aka Mrs Unsmiling-Poor-Dress-Sense-despite-billions-in-her-pocket, is THE most powerful woman in Asia!!! How's that for outstanding?
Think you misinterpreted lin yu's post.
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Originally posted by qlqq9:
Think you misinterpreted lin yu's post.
i know, i am merely talking nonsense.....
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Originally posted by redDUST:
i know, i am merely talking nonsense.....
just speak your mind. this is freedom of speech
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Originally posted by Lin Yu:
Taiwan will have an outstanding President because behind every successful man, there's a woman. The soon to be first lady had show to be one supportive and impressive lady.
It was said that the simple lady had given up her studies so that Mr Ma was able to pursue his. She had show her sincerity and did not meddle in her husband political carrer. Taking a public bus and intending to keep her job even when Mr Ma is going to be The President had showed her intention to keep a low profile even in her future position as first lady.
Do we have one like this? Mrs GCT? Mrs LKY? Mrs LHL? Mrs.....
On top of that, Mr Ma have his first dog 马�� that will keep low profile after he become president.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
i know, i am merely talking nonsense.....
Fine to talk nonsense Lin Yu does not mind. YOu can scold her or him it is fine for it is freedom of speech.
Ho Ching lost a lot of $$$ in investment.
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Originally posted by qlqq9:
Fine to talk nonsense Lin Yu does not mind. YOu can scold her or him it is fine for it is freedom of speech.
Ho Ching lost a lot of $$$ in investment.
then u misunderstood me. i am not even chiding his/her statement. i am merely indirectly agreeing with her.
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seriously, did they even bother to show how singapore "benefited" from the $$$ they proclaimed to have make ?