If Tibet doesn't belong to China, then then...
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Originally posted by ray245:
A liberal country does not mean that country is better, and as far as humanity is concerned, we can say this.
this is also true conversely. -
i think the world is full of it......
tibet is a state......if the chinese wanna talk about americans giving up the country to the red necks and stuff i think its all bullshit coz the world knows that throughout history, lands have been taken by force, so even if its han or mongolian, they have the right to not be part of china coz china is beginning to sound like the us or many other countries in the world.......a country made up of collective states......
hmmm..in this case i cannot side on the tibetans nor the chinese but i say if the tibetan people wants freedom, then they have the right but if they are brainwashed to demand freedom then i think that wouldn't be right.....
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Originally posted by Deino:
i think the world is full of it......
tibet is a state......if the chinese wanna talk about americans giving up the country to the red necks and stuff i think its all bullshit coz the world knows that throughout history, lands have been taken by force, so even if its han or mongolian, they have the right to not be part of china coz china is beginning to sound like the us or many other countries in the world.......a country made up of collective states......
hmmm..in this case i cannot side on the tibetans nor the chinese but i say if the tibetan people wants freedom, then they have the right but if they are brainwashed to demand freedom then i think that wouldn't be right.....
There is no state in China. There are provinces, municipalities and autonomous regions. Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia and Guangxi are autonomous regions. Chongqi, Shanghai, Beijing and Tianjin are municipalities, the rest are provinces.
China is not made up of collective states like the US.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
There is no state in China. There are provinces, municipalities and autonomous regions. Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia and Guangxi are autonomous regions. Chongqi, Shanghai, Beijing and Tianjin are municipalities, the rest are provinces.
China is not made up of collective states like the US.
wikipedia states that throughout history, china was made up of states......
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Originally posted by Deino:
i think the world is full of it......
tibet is a state......if the chinese wanna talk about americans giving up the country to the red necks and stuff i think its all bullshit coz the world knows that throughout history, lands have been taken by force, so even if its han or mongolian, they have the right to not be part of china coz china is beginning to sound like the us or many other countries in the world.......a country made up of collective states......
hmmm..in this case i cannot side on the tibetans nor the chinese but i say if the tibetan people wants freedom, then they have the right but if they are brainwashed to demand freedom then i think that wouldn't be right.....
That's why nowadays alot of people all over the world migrate to other countries.
Many singaporeans here, their grandparents also migrate from China. Not because they don't like their country, but because that time China was chaotic and don't have a strong army to protect them. Now the police at Tibet just want to protect the people from the riot, that's all. -
Originally posted by Deino:
wikipedia states that throughout history, china was made up of states......
Sorry, can't find the statement you quote. China in history were made up of different kingdoms at different times. Wikipedia refers the RPC or ROC as a state, a country.
Today, mainland China is administered by the People's Republic of China—a one-party state under the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party; while the island of Taiwan and surrounding islands are administered by the Republic of China—a democratic multi-party state. After the founding of the People's Republic in 1949, both states claimed to be the sole legitimate ruler of all of "China".No need to argue over terminologies, just don't confuse the states in the US and the provinces in China.
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Originally posted by justdoit77:
That's why nowadays alot of people all over the world migrate to other countries.
Many singaporeans here, their grandparents also migrate from China. Not because they don't like their country, but because that time China was chaotic and don't have a strong army to protect them.
Lucky the ancient chinese only fought among themselves, plus the many natural calamities. Chinese overseas migrated and subject themselves to the local authorities, only set up China Towns. If they were like the British, small country, but go everywhere and subject the locals to their authorities, make them the British subject and ship their natural resources back to the great britian. -
If they were like the British, small country, but go everywhere and subject the locals to their authorities, make them the British subject and ship their natural resources back to the great britian.
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The int olympic company now kpkb about tibet. Be interestin to see china response
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Don't like this using of tibetan issue to sabotage Beijing Olympics.
I hope Beijing deals with these troublemakers sternly.
Someone should create a distraction somewhere so as to take the media pressure off the Tibet issue.
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Tibetans have been protesting all the time but because their protest is peaceful so the Chinese army easily put them down- and thats why no body pays attention to them - After a while China believe their own lie and as if nothing has happened -
This time the Tibetan obviously fed up with the futile peacefull approach and explored in violence- What happen? People started to pay attention- Why? Why do people have to use violence inorder to be noticed?
So sad- China deserved to be embarrased! China cannot just pretend they don't exist - I as a Chinese prefer honesty than blind pride - be honest be truthfull- Don't defend China blindly!!!
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Originally posted by Concreteshadow:
Tibetans have been protesting all the time but because their protest is peaceful so the Chinese army easily put them down- and thats why no body pays attention to them - After a while China believe their own lie and as if nothing has happened -
This time the Tibetan obviously fed up with the futile peacefull approach and explored in violence- What happen? People started to pay attention- Why? Why do people have to use violence inorder to be noticed?
So sad- China deserved to be embarrased! China cannot just pretend they don't exist - I as a Chinese prefer honesty than blind pride - be honest be truthfull- Don't defend China blindly!!!
Well, I won't say china handling of the issue is ideal that all. In my opinion, the chinese government isn't going a good job in controlling the whole issue currently.What I'm attacking is people who are pro-tibet as in those that think that tibet is not a fault AT ALL. And those that thinks that the tibetians have a right to be peaceful...when they are responsible for turning the sistuation into a violent one.
I don't remember protest in the past involves SOO much violence.
This is a case where both tibet AND china are at fault. That is what people needs to recongize.
The whole sistuation now is basically the same as the riots in singapore(minus singaporean police activiely killing so many protestors . Tibetians destroying han chinese shops, accidently or 'indirectly' ( well at times) responsible for the deaths of a few han chinese.
But bear in mind that tibetians are a minority now, han chinese are a majority. So the tibetians who seek indepedence or more automony NEEDS to consider the interest of the han chinese living there as well, unless the majority of the han chinese wants to leave tibet...
This isn't a black and white sistuation.
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Originally posted by Concreteshadow:
Tibetans have been protesting all the time but because their protest is peaceful so the Chinese army easily put them down- and thats why no body pays attention to them - After a while China believe their own lie and as if nothing has happened -
This time the Tibetan obviously fed up with the futile peacefull approach and explored in violence- What happen? People started to pay attention- Why? Why do people have to use violence inorder to be noticed?
So sad- China deserved to be embarrased! China cannot just pretend they don't exist - I as a Chinese prefer honesty than blind pride - be honest be truthfull- Don't defend China blindly!!!
You imply that only violent protest get attention. That is very dangerous.
There is no proof that Tibetans have been protesting all the time, definitely not the tibetans living in Tibet. There is also no Chinese army easily put them down, there was no need. There has been influx of tourist into Lhasa, especially after the railway link was completed. Many of my friends have taken that trip.
The PRC government definitely did not handle the recent incidents well. But to gain independence for Tibet, which is an autonomous region of China, it will take a lot more effort and publicity. Rioting is a set back, rather than contribution, the Dalai Lama in exile knows that very well.
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Originally posted by ray245:
Well, I won't say china handling of the issue is ideal that all. In my opinion, the chinese government isn't going a good job in controlling the whole issue currently.
What I'm attacking is people who are pro-tibet as in those that think that tibet is not a fault AT ALL. And those that thinks that the tibetians have a right to be peaceful...when they are responsible for turning the sistuation into a violent one.
I don't remember protest in the past involves SOO much violence.
This is a case where both tibet AND china are at fault. That is what people needs to recongize.
The whole sistuation now is basically the same as the riots in singapore(minus singaporean police activiely killing so many protestors . Tibetians destroying han chinese shops, accidently or 'indirectly' ( well at times) responsible for the deaths of a few han chinese.
But bear in mind that tibetians are a minority now, han chinese are a majority. So the tibetians who seek indepedence or more automony NEEDS to consider the interest of the han chinese living there as well, unless the majority of the han chinese wants to leave tibet...
This isn't a black and white sistuation.
Let's hope the rioters will listen to Dalai Lama and China government and stop the violence soon, it has caused a lot of damage to the innocents. I have personally talked to some tibetans, most are them have positive impression on china government.
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Its my observation that only violence protest get attention- I disagree that there were never been protest before in Tibet -
I read from strait time every once in a while that there were protest in Tibet especially during certain historical significant day- These were usually published in just a few lines at somewhere in the middle of the paper so I think was easily overlooked by people -
Before China open up Tibet to tourist there are even more protests - they are usually by monks and nuns and they are dragged and beaten and thrown in jail and every one will have forgotten they ever happened- very convenient- I think Tibetan learnt that peaceful protest can no longer achieve anying and china government learnt that the best way to handlethem is to ignore them- Thats ahy China just ignore Dalai Lama and refuse to talk to him-
I think thats China 's big mistake
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Secret CIA Sponsorship of Tibetan Rebels against China Exposed:
How A Ground-breaking Book Unveiled History as It Was
The CIA's Secret War in Tibet -
Originally posted by Concreteshadow:
Its my observation that only violence protest get attention- I disagree that there were never been protest before in Tibet -
I read from strait time every once in a while that there were protest in Tibet especially during certain historical significant day- These were usually published in just a few lines at somewhere in the middle of the paper so I think was easily overlooked by people -
Before China open up Tibet to tourist there are even more protests - they are usually by monks and nuns and they are dragged and beaten and thrown in jail and every one will have forgotten they ever happened- very convenient- I think Tibetan learnt that peaceful protest can no longer achieve anying and china government learnt that the best way to handlethem is to ignore them- Thats ahy China just ignore Dalai Lama and refuse to talk to him-
I think thats China 's big mistake
It is dangerous to have this thinking that "only violence protest get attention". A lot of terrorists have this kind of mindset, they killed the innocents just because the government don't agree to them.
So you are talking about the history during the Mao Ze Dong's time. There are much more ethnic Han being killed at a greater cruelty extends. Mao is gone already, wakeup. Are you going to support every province to get independence just because there is tyrant in their history? -
If Tibet doesn't qualify for independence, then I guess Pakistan and Afghanistan don't qualify as independent countries and should be under Indian rule too.
Asoka (DevanÄ�garÄ«: अशोकः, IAST: AÅ›okaḥ, IPA: [aÉ•oË�kÉ™(hÉ™)], Prakrit Imperial title: Devanampriya Priyadarsi (DevanÄ�garÄ«: देवानांपà¥�रिय पà¥�रियदरà¥�शी), "He who is the beloved of the Gods and who regards everyone amiably") and Dhamma (DevanÄ�garÄ«: धमà¥�मः), "Lawful, Religious, Righteous") (304 BC – 232 BC) was an Indian emperor, of the Maurya Dynasty who ruled from 273 BC to 232 BC. Often cited as one of India's greatest emperors, Ashoka reigned over most of present-day India after a number of military conquests. His empire stretched from present-day Pakistan, Afghanistan and parts of Persia in the west, to the present-day Bengal and Assam states of India in the east, and as far south as the Mysore state. His reign was headquartered in Magadha (present-day Bihar state of India). He embraced Buddhism from the prevalent Vedic tradition after witnessing the mass deaths of the war of Kalinga, which he himself had waged out of a desire for conquest. He was later dedicated in the propagation of Buddhism across Asia and established monuments marking several significant sites in the life of Gautama Buddha.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka_the_Great
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China, Tibet and the Propaganda Olympics
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
If Tibet doesn't qualify for independence, then I guess Pakistan and Afghanistan don't qualify as independent countries and should be under Indian rule too.
Can you pls explain your rationale behind this statement?
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Pakistan probably not. A lot of Indians still believe that there shouldn't have been a seperation. and you won't have the bloody mess of Pakistan. Isnt the Republic of India in its present form the largest state on the Indian subcontinet ever in existence?
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For the sake of having some pride of being Singaporean, pls to be so willingly use by chinese propaganda 100% and ignore what is really at stake here.
At least if you r a SG stand on your perspective.
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Sadly the other thread where SGdiehard and his frnd was getting fired on was locked.So seems like things will have to be moved here for the time being.
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@underground_lee :Well, if like what those western countries were to tell us that China got no right to rule Tibet because Tibet is not their land, ok... then please free Australia from the whites because the land of Australia doesn't belong to the whites
So what is Singapore a land where chinese migrated to should be?Should it also be made free and returned to Malaysia?
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@Poh Ah Pak:
Tibet is part of China.
This is a fact.
I oppose those who want to tear off Tibet from China.
Tibet WAS,IS,and ALWAYS WILL BE a part of China
And I am assuming that you are chinese and disregarding the posts above yours where it shows the real thing?
The 1.5 billion Han chinese will not allow anyone to tear off Tibet from China.
So it means that being 1.5 billion gives you the power to do any rowdism?
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@kirkisweird :How sure are you of Tibet being a peaceful place? Have you ever been there? If China pulls out of Tibet, will all calamity be avoided and will Tibetans be living happily ever after?
How many problems have been reported from Tibet before the Chinese invasion?
Right, get India to claim Tibet and you'll have calamity alright.
US? Hmm, I think they got one country screwed up already. I certainly don't wanna know how Tibet ends up.
Well indians lack the spine so lets forget them.As of US is screwed?You are really in a delusional world with ur brothers who balantly yelp but has no idea what's happening.
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Many states in the US also did not belong to them. Texas and California were annexed from Mexico, Hawaii was an independent kingdom that was "overthrown". So, do you think that USA would "free" these states?
Well Texas decided to join USA and tey have the right to keep their flags at same level as US flag.And I dnt hear any one from these mentioned states crying for independence or being killed off.
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@SGdiehard:There is no proof that Tibetans have been protesting all the time, definitely not the tibetans living in Tibet.
Yes because they were killed off if they protested.Tibetians escaped to other countries and who didnt have to fear for their life has been protesting.Or perhaps you forgot to read the Dalai lama's demands for many years?????????????????????????or isnt tht counted as protest?????????????????????????????????There has been protest by Tiebeteans all over including Tibet.Just tht u didnt hear of it doesnt mean there was no protest.
Tibet must be freePS:I am not a pro chinese.My gf is chinese.I like the country and its development and esp hard working ppl much more than Singapore chinese.But what they do in Tibet,simply atrocious.
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But what they do in Tibet,simply atrocious.
What about tibetan rioters? Burning and destroying?
Is it atrocious?
Lhasa mayor: Do you call this peaceful?
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90776/6384980.html
Dalai Lama tells lies again
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90780/91342/6384907.html
China publishes evidences of Dalai clique's masterminding of riots
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
What about tibetan rioters? Burning and destroying?
Is it atrocious?
Lhasa mayor: Do you call this peaceful?
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90776/6384980.html
Dalai Lama tells lies again
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90780/91342/6384907.html
China publishes evidences of Dalai clique's masterminding of riots
Well you seem to miss out the point why tibetians riot,its because the Chinese took over them.It's not likew they go to China to riot.Why dnt u get tht?