http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(film)
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/cna/cgi-bin/search/search_7days.pl?status=&search=fitna&id=338010
Ask any of your malay friends the meaning of Fitnah. Fitnah is commonly used here as "defemation".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kcev1K-NOc&feature=related
I have seen many self made videos defaming Muslims thru lies, quoting out of context, etc. But this is the first time I've seen an officially made film of the matter.
I really can't believe what's going on. The movie is filled with quotes from the quran out of context, one sided views, terrorist and extremist. And this is suppose to "expose" the truth about islam?
The film itself doesn't bug me (ok, maybe a little), but what really bugs me is that it is an officially made movie and accepted by the government of the country to be published. The film is pure lies and it is still accepted!
I understand the concept of freedom of speech. So does this mean people are allowed the freedom to Fitnah (defame)? Apparently people can publish anything they want under freedom of speech these days...
chill, a right minded person will know it is a farce.
i stopped watching it after the lst minute
many things are now subject to `open' interpretations. even christianity is not spared. I don't think anyone can stop it nor prevent future occurance. some did it out of naivety while others are out to stir things up.
curryman is correct, if it is a farce, most will know. and there are relevant authorities to take care of things. we shouldn't take matters in our own hand, other than just having a discussion here, i guess. at least, we can dispel and debate over its content w/out any worse.
Geert Wilder is infamous for spreading atrocities about Islam in his country and all over the world. If u can recall a video about a nude woman dressed in translucent hijab and having images of Quran Surahs superimposed on them, that is done by him.
We, as muslims, are taught to be compassionate and to be strong when they are attacks to our religion. We confide in Him and Rasullulah (pbuh) should we face problems and we follow on with our daily passages in life.
Such fitnah, Allah knows...and we know there will be consequences to that.
��ي ق�ل�وب�ه�م مَّرَضٌ �َزَادَه�م� اللّه� مَرَضاً وَلَه�م عَذَابٌ أَل�يمٌ ب�مَا كَان�وا يَكْذ�ب�ونَ
In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
(Al Baqarah 2:10)
you cannot stop the minds of people thinking what they like, even if you can stop them talking about it .... stopping them talking about it, only further sears the prejudice against you deeper into their minds, .....
all that smacks of intolerance .... wouldn't it be more effective to show the forgiveness and a live and let live attitude ? or even to write these people off as cranks ? ... if you develop a seige mentality, develop an us versus them attitude, wouldn't you vindicate those people's message ? ....
by demonstrating and loud and vehement and violent protests, you're playing right into those people's hands ..... you're showing exactly the sort of intolerance this group of people have been talking about all along, no ? ....
It was even during the Prophet's time, despite Muslims trying for conversions, despite all the irreconcilable theological disputes, it had already been said, "Lakum deenukum waliya deen" - To you, your way of faith, to me, mine.
Originally posted by Fatum:
you cannot stop the minds of people thinking what they like, even if you can stop them talking about it .... stopping them talking about it, only further sears the prejudice against you deeper into their minds, .....
all that smacks of intolerance .... wouldn't it be more effective to show the forgiveness and a live and let live attitude ? or even to write these people off as cranks ? ... if you develop a seige mentality, develop an us versus them attitude, wouldn't you vindicate those people's message ? ....
by demonstrating and loud and vehement and violent protests, you're playing right into those people's hands ..... you're showing exactly the sort of intolerance this group of people have been talking about all along, no ? ....
well said, well said!
if we develop an us vs them mentality, then the bickering would be never ending.
How did the film maker take the Quranic verses out of context? How did he defame the religion? What is the truth about the religion?
I'm sure some people like me would like to hear the other side of the story.
Will somebody care to explain - convincingly - to the free people?
Originally posted by googoomuck:How did the film maker take the Quranic verses out of context? How did he defame the religion? What is the truth about the religion?
I'm sure some people like me would like to hear the other side of the story.
Will somebody care to explain - convincingly - to the free people?
Wait a while, we gather the facts and summerise it later...
Why even bother with the fool with the peroxide bleached hairdo?
Seems like abit too overboard leh. Thr's video abt defaming religions, this one like 得罪 the muslims too much.
Originally posted by googoomuck:How did the film maker take the Quranic verses out of context? How did he defame the religion? What is the truth about the religion?
I'm sure some people like me would like to hear the other side of the story.
Will somebody care to explain - convincingly - to the free people?
I haven't made my official answer, but here's one very good answer from Kamran in yahoo answers...
Geert Wilders has raised many points in his movie Fitna. He has tried to give a face to Islam that he and people like him (eg Osama Bin Laden) like to project. Misquoting Quran, and picking verses of his choice from the holy book ignoring verses just next to them. Giving half information is same as creating misinformation. However, for people who are wise, the same fitna created by Geert Wilders will lead to understanding the truth and salvation, once they read Quran and understand the real context.
While this response does not intend to explain reactive behaviours of some muslims (including clerics), it will explain the misquoted text from the source - Quran.
Movie starts with following verse quoted from holy Quran:
First Quran verse presented in the movie:
Quran: 008.060
"Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly. "
But Geert refuses to read and quote just the next verse without understanding context, showing his ill intentions. Courage is being brought into hearts of fearful muslims against whom war has been declared and peace has been taken away:
Quran: 008.061
But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).
Islam encourages peace, will somebody want a better proof than this. Even against those who started to go against peace, you also get ready to respond to maintain peace, fighting those who distroy peace, but if they go back to peace, then there is no reason for war.
A little earlier in the same chapter the context becomes even more clear:
Quran: 008.039
And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
Permission is being given to fight those who cause tumult or oppression without letting justice and forcing people not to choose what religion is right for them.
Quran: 008.058
If thou fearest treachery from any group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms: for Allah loveth not the treacherous.
It is all about terms and conditions. "IF". Permission is being given to fight with given circumstances of treachery from hostile group.
Same chapter again, to make context even more clear:
Quran: 008.056
They are those with whom thou didst make a covenant, but they break their covenant every time, and they have not the fear (of Allah).
"Those" are the people who break agreements and treaties.
Doesn't make the same chapter clarify people like those who made "Fita" with all the wrong intentions misquoting Quran,
Quran: 008.049
"Lo! the hypocrites say, and those in whose hearts is a disease: "These people,- their religion has misled them." But if any trust in Allah, behold! Allah is Exalted in might, Wise."
--------------------------------------...
The second verse from Quran presented is:
Quran: 004.056
Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
These are the warnings for disbelievers. And there is sign of God in it for the wise. Can an illiterate man (Mohammad, p.b.u.h) who didn't know how to read and write say such a thing which only MD's of today's medical sciences are able to explain.
Today science has discovered that the only place where pain of fire is felt is not the meat, but it is skin. God is giving His sign for the wise people in it to know the Quran is from God only. Punishment through roasting the skin, again and again, only the skin. Still there are many like Geert who did not think about it. For sure there are many signs for believers in Quran.
--------------------------------------...
The third verse quoted is:
Quran: 047.004
Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
Again same chapter explains the context:
Quran: 047.020
Those who believe say, "Why is not a sura sent down (for us)?" But when a sura of basic or categorical meaning is revealed, and fighting is mentioned therein, thou wilt see those in whose hearts is a disease looking at thee with a look of one in swoon at the approach of death. But more fitting for them-
Chapters 25-78 were revealed during the early stage of Madani life after migration, at the time when muslims were weak, and feared to participate in wars staged on them by disbelievers.
--------------------------------------...
Fourth time a verse is mentioned:
Quran: 004.089
They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
Geert again ignores the context from the same chapter, a few verses away:
Quran: 004.075
And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"
Islam is all about self defence, getting people (men, women, children) their right away from oppression, ill treatment, who cry and ask God for help.
--------------------------------------...
And the final Verse quoted in the movie:
Quran: 008.039
And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
Geert picks the right verse that explains the whole context, but verily,
Quran: 047.024
Do they not then earnestly seek to understand the Qur'an, or are their hearts locked up by them?
Quran: 2:171
The example of such disbelievers is that of parrots who repeat what they hear of sounds and calls, without understanding. deaf, dumb, and blind; they cannot understand.
Again it says that if they cease to fight, don't fight. And permission is given to fight until all oppression is nulified, and people have the freedom to choose the right religion and faith as they want.
--------------------------------------...
Islam strictly condemns religious extremism and the use of violence against innocent lives.
There is no justification in Islam for extremism or terrorism. Targeting civilians’ life and property through suicide bombings or any other method of attack is haram – or forbidden - and those who commit these barbaric acts are criminals, not “martyrs.”
The Qur’an, Islam’s revealed text, states: "Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind."
(Qur’an, 5:32)
Prophet Muhammad said there is no excuse for committing unjust acts: "Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong (even) if they do evil." (Al-Tirmidhi)
The Holy Prophet Muhammad(s) puts it in these words: "All creatures are like a family of God: and he loves the most those who are the most beneficent to His family. (Narrated by Anas. Mishkat al-Masabih,3:1392.)
Even duty of prophet was to clearly defined as to convey the messege of God to human beings:
So if they dispute with you (Muhammad SAW) say: "I have submitted myself to Allah (in Islam), and (so have) those who follow me." And say to those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and to those who are illiterates (Arab pagans): "Do you (also) submit yourselves (to Allah in Islam)?" If they do, they are rightly guided; but if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message; and Allah is All-Seer of (His ) slaves.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #20)
Then, if they turn away, your duty (O Muhammad SAW) is only to convey (the Message) in a clear way.
( سورة النØÙ„ , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #82)
Quran
2:256 There is no compulsion in religion.
Don't give bad rating to a Mercedes only because the driver didn’t know how to drive such a good car and had an accident. Don't judge islam by the actions of bad Muslims who take out their frustration with west with wrong interpretation of Islamic teaching. Know islam by yourself. Give yourself a chance to know truth with open mind
Your reply please!!!
Originally posted by MohamedF:I haven't made my official answer, but here's one very good answer from Kamran in yahoo answers...
Let's see. I'm an unbeliever. That makes me an enemy, an infidel. That's great !
Originally posted by googoomuck:Let's see. I'm an unbeliever. That makes me an enemy, an infidel. That's great !
Non-believer = someone who is simply non-muslim
Unbeliever = Someone who is anti-muslim
which one are you?
sigh ......
look dudes ..... there are hundreds of violently anti-non-muslims, jihadist and terror videos available on the net, railing against the jews, the christians, the west, the non-believers, everyone who's not a muslim .... including lots on youtube ... no one goes on protest on the streets ... no one calls for their removal ... why ? .... because we know to write these people off as cranks and nutjobs, ..... (except for those head cutting videos, which I think are also psychopaths) .... you stumble onto them, you watch them, you laugh, and you go watch something else ..... that's what free speech is about, everyone gets a say, including, unfortunately, the nutjobs and the cranks and terrorists ... but normal people knows what's right and wrong, what's black and white, I do that, what's so difficult about it ? ...
would you like these sort of vids removed as well ? .... or is it just a one way street ? ....
Like I said above ... many muslims are playing right into these chaps' hands ... you are behaving in exactly the way these chaps' said you would, with demonstrations, with intolerance, with loud protests with bits of violence thrown in .... you're not helping to clear up mis-perceptions against your religion, you're vindicating what he's been trying to say .... if you just come along and laugh and say, haha, he's a racist and a nutjob .... hey, I'd agree with you and forget about it ... and file this film together with those beheading and jihadi vids in my brain, the folder marked recycle bin ....
but now I see indonesia threatening to ban youtube if the video is not removed, I see supermarkets in malaysia labelling dutch products, I see flag burnings in pakistan, protests everywhere, for the work of one man .... you know what I see ? ... I see an us versus them attitude ... I see a "I can say what I like about me, but you can't say anything bad about me" mindset .... again ... maybe you can stop the mouths of some people talking, you can never stop the minds of people thinking .... so what may be a better way to go about this ? .... go chew on it dude ...