Thought we should help our own singaporean citizen first.
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Anyway, China workers are just everywhere. There's a reason why westerners discriminate against the chinese; they are still cheap labour in any other country. Walk around Europe looking and talking very chinese, and you will start to feel the discrimination. But walk around looking and talking japanese, they will be friendly to you.
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Originally posted by Go:
To answer your question. Most people will want to be in a winning team. No doubt. FT will rather go to US than Singapore because Singapore is not even winning at all.And sad to say, the government is depending on FT to allow Singapore to gain an edge over the rest rather than depending on the locals.
It is a chicken and egg story with snowball effect. And to government's decision, FT is the one that is able to initiate the snowball effect.
Yes I agree.. an easy way out, and boy ... and expensive one too.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Anyway, China workers are just everywhere. There's a reason why westerners discriminate against the chinese; they are still cheap labour in any other country. Walk around Europe looking and talking very chinese, and you will start to feel the discrimination. But walk around looking and talking japanese, they will be friendly to you.
Actually you are not quite right.
Chinese or Japanese.. to the westerners.. we are all just Asians.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Actually you are not quite right.
Chinese or Japanese.. to the westerners.. we are all just Asians.
Yup, they can't differentiate. But it is the impression upon then from your dressing and how you hold yourself that they make a decision.
At least that was what I observed in Germany. They are rather unfriendly if they think you are chinese, but extremely friendly when they think you are japanese. Afterall, Germans and Japanese were once allies
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Afterall, Germans and Japanese were once allies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-German_cooperation_%281911-1941%29
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Originally posted by eagle:
Yup, they can't differentiate. But it is the impression upon then from your dressing and how you hold yourself that they make a decision.
At least that was what I observed in Germany. They are rather unfriendly if they think you are chinese, but extremely friendly when they think you are japanese. Afterall, Germans and Japanese were once allies
So.. if I go Germany .. and I act like a Singaporean.. how will they treat me ?
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
So.. if I go Germany .. and I act like a Singaporean.. how will they treat me ?
Chinese. They think Singapore is part of China
Unless they have dealings with Singapore la... then they will be ok with you... Those that had dealings with Singapore generally have good impressions.
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An employer will always employ a worker if he or she thinks that he or she can do the job well at a pay that he or she thinks is affordable, reasonable or worthwhile and it does not matter to him or her that he or she is a Singaporean or FT.
So whether the employer employs a FT or Singaporean will depend on the government policies, the abilities of Singaporeans and FT.
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Originally posted by Ahm97sic:
An employer will always employ a worker if he or she thinks that he or she can do the job well at a pay that he or she thinks is affordable, reasonable or worthwhile and it does not matter to him or her that he or she is a Singaporean or FT.
So whether the employer employs a FT or Singaporean will depend on the government policies, the abilities of Singaporeans and FT.
So.. if you have a minimum wage law, how will you choose ?
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Based on the abilities of the job applicants unless there are other government regulations that prevent this. Choose the one that you thinks can do the job better.
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Originally posted by Ahm97sic:
An employer will always employ a worker if he or she thinks that he or she can do the job well at a pay that he or she thinks is affordable, reasonable or worthwhile and it does not matter to him or her that he or she is a Singaporean or FT.
So whether the employer employs a FT or Singaporean will depend on the government policies, the abilities of Singaporeans and FT.
That's made even worse when you have indian "FT"s who are good at boasting but then later on, the company finds that these people can't do their job.
So what happens? A Singaporean who is capable of doing it is deprived.
The Govt can do something to help minimize such cases from happening, and not perform a full striptease whereby any tom dick or harry can come to Singapore and snatch jobs.
AND... pls edit your wrong mindset. This is NOT a corporation and this is NOT a market. This is A COUNTRY. A country has citizens whom the country should look after in the best interests of the country, the society, and the individual (of which the last is lacking very badly).
Citizens are NOT like FTs who have a second place to run to, or looking for the next place after treating Singapore as a stepping stone.
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And before anyone thinks I am against Foreign Talent, let me said I am not.
I believe the Foreign Talent Policy is good if and only if:
- The Govt is more discerning on the criteria of a talent. Be more scrutinizing to ensure that we really get good people.
- The citizens are looked after first and foremost
Now, the Foreign Talent policy is totally abused by this arrogant govt.
- The Govt is more discerning on the criteria of a talent. Be more scrutinizing to ensure that we really get good people.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
And before anyone thinks I am against Foreign Talent, let me said I am not.
I believe the Foreign Talent Policy is good if and only if:
- The Govt is more discerning on the criteria of a talent. Be
more scrutinizing to ensure that we really get good
people.
- The citizens are looked after first and foremost
Now, the Foreign Talent policy is totally abused by this arrogant govt.
This is well said.
I'm on your side.Supporting the policy is one thing, how it was handled by the government is another thing.
- The Govt is more discerning on the criteria of a talent. Be
more scrutinizing to ensure that we really get good
people.
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The PAP government does not release statistics of FT dont they? For eg in what sector and what kind of positions, which company are they employed in.
I am pretty sure that the PAP does take of Singapore citizens in the sense that they employ local ISA agents, "journalists", "police", "army", entertainers, Singtel and other GLC low level execs. No job, sign on lah. Iron rice bowl what. I wonder if unemployment is due to the hostile economic environment to small businesses and the unentrepreneneurial nature of Singaporeans. That being said I am pretty neutral on the issue of FT. Its not as if a local cannot be trained to do the same job and the level of competence (IF not so competent to begin with).
The problem has to do with pay and that local men has to do NSF duty every year, thus reducing their productivity and competitiveness. If you were a boss, who would you employ - a cheaper person who can do the same job and who does not need to go to NSF? FTs are part and parcel of the global market, virtually everywhere. However how many FTs do you REALLY need to boost an economy, improve local skills etc? Is there an official quota based on skills etc?
Immigration is a hot button issue in America as well - difference being USA is half of a big continent + some islands whereas Singapore is a 600 sqkm island + several smaller islands.
As we all well know, everyone on Singapore island is replaceable, EXCEPT for LKY's band of millionaires.
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please go to credit sussie or citibank or stanchart IT dept, and count for me the number of singaporeans there. i have good confident that u will NOT find more than 1% of the workforce there to be singaporeans.
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i think it would be more preferable for FTs to come to singapore, to create jobs for locals, instead of competiting for jobs. we have enough to be bothered with without having FTs to drive down our wage.
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I thought there is someone posting in ST forum regarding this job vacancy. He posted job vacancy in ST Classified and received more reply from foreigners than locals (3 locals VS 50+ foreigners applications if i'm not mistaken). He continued to state that locals do not really care about his small company.
Probably we should look into this. Why do we tend to underestimate small company? Foreigners are fighting so eagerly for it while locals do not really care about it.
It is also important to note that Singapore has more MNCs. MNCs are foreign companies, they do as they like and they are NOT obliged to hire Singaporeans although it will be easier if they so. But if there is cheaper labour cost, why should they spend more money on higher labor cost?
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Originally posted by ultranova3:
I thought there is someone posting in ST forum regarding this job vacancy. He posted job vacancy in ST Classified and received more reply from foreigners than locals (3 locals VS 50+ foreigners applications if i'm not mistaken). He continued to state that locals do not really care about his small company.
Probably we should look into this. Why do we tend to underestimate small company? Foreigners are fighting so eagerly for it while locals do not really care about it.
It is also important to note that Singapore has more MNCs. MNCs are foreign companies, they do as they like and they are NOT obliged to hire Singaporeans although it will be easier if they so. But if there is cheaper labour cost, why should they spend more money on higher labor cost?
That's because.. foreigners don't know what they are getting themselves into.
They don't know the kiam siap culture in mini Companies.
In their eyes.. they see a ticket out of their home country.. and a chance to live in Paradise.
Yes.. companies only look at cost.. in the end it's the net profit they care. If they can get labor for free.. you think they don't want ?
If you have been to Guam or the Vietnamese sweat shop.. you will know why we need gahmen policies to protect the people's interest.
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"I thought there is someone posting in ST forum regarding this job vacancy. He posted job vacancy in ST Classified and received more reply from foreigners than locals (3 locals VS 50+ foreigners applications if i'm not mistaken). He continued to state that locals do not really care about his small company."
First off, 3 locals apply and 50 foreigners could simply mean that more FT are AVAILABLE to take the job. Locals are interested in jobs like posting propoganda on Sgforums for PAP etc what. Why shouldnt locals start more mini companies as well? The Government could offer much more no-condition low interest small loans to start businesses.
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
"I thought there is someone posting in ST forum regarding this job vacancy. He posted job vacancy in ST Classified and received more reply from foreigners than locals (3 locals VS 50+ foreigners applications if i'm not mistaken). He continued to state that locals do not really care about his small company."
First off, 3 locals apply and 50 foreigners could simply mean that more FT are AVAILABLE to take the job. Locals are interested in jobs like posting propoganda on Sgforums for PAP etc what. Why shouldnt locals start more mini companies as well? The Government could offer much more no-condition low interest small loans to start businesses.
To add, what happened to him may not be happening to other companies. And there could be other reasons other than size.
All we can see is FTs swarming our shores. If that is reflected in the job hiring, shouldnt be surprising to anyone
I am surprised that the employer is surprised, or is he dumb?
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Sg people r just helpless to c FT coming in, many of our employer also FT so LL u have to accept it. Usless majority r Sg company like Japan. So means that we can only help ourself by opening more big MNC and expand to oversea, if not we r moving backwards. So who have the capacity to open big company in sg? Govt loh!
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"So means that we can only help ourself by opening more big MNC and expand to oversea, if not we r moving backwards. So who have the capacity to open big company in sg? Govt loh!"
You tell me the GLC overseas employs more of overseas locals or Sgs? And good luck to GLCs learning to compete and having to innovate.
"Usless majority r Sg company like Japan"
Like what Sony, Ajinomoto, Honda etc. Sg companies are not given the opportunity to develop. These people never hear of FREE market.
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Still $ come first, so who can help poor Sg?
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We are given the opportunity but few are willing to explore further in SMEs because of the high risk. It is common fact but we also need to realize that we can't depend too much on MNCs - MNCs can just choose to leave anytime and leave all of us jobsless.
You can't always jump to 'openning big company' unless you have capital. you should start small and expand slowly. Probably the job advertisement is for SME but at least if the company expands and you perform well, you will be rewarded (either bonus or promotion)
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Originally posted by eagle:
This is well said.
I'm on your side.Supporting the policy is one thing, how it was handled by the government is another thing.
I think we both disagree with the implementation of the policy, NOT the policy itself.
This is a globalization era. We cannot shut ourselves in (coz we ultimately will suffer), BUT we should filter what comes in so that they are beneficial to the country and are NOT parasitic.
I know of many "FT"s that come here just to grab $$$ and go home. They have no gratitude to this country, and will leave at the 1st instance of trouble.