When FT outnumbers locals, what would happen?
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These PAP propoganda dogs are really something - I cannot imagine what kind of twisted individuals they must be. I am not sure how they sleep at night...
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I am totally "FOR" the foreigners, as they will bring more colours and add more cultures in Singapore. The only problem i have is the govt is so "fixated" into bringing china "talent" only. For that I am against it. 1) They can't be like Singaporeans as they can only speak 1 language, "mandarin". 2) Singapore will soon turn from uniquely Singapore into "unique China".
Just step outside your house now, try eating out or go shopping, 50% of the chances you will find "china" ppl serving you. And what's worst, they assume everyone in Singapore speaks Chinese, whether you understand them or not, they still rely you in chinese. They seem to forget this is Singapore, not China. If the govt dont control these increasingly high volume of china ppl coming in and without knowing MIMIMUM ENGLISH, I can ensure everyone that Singapore will sooner or later become China. By then it's not Uniquely Singapore anymore since its no longer multicultural society.
I' m getting more and more worried about this disturbing situation, as Singapore is feeling less and less like a home to me. It doesn't seem to be a charming place meant for multi culture/ multi race to enjoy anymore, it's becoming more like a place suitable for chinese speaking china ppl only.The other races and foreigners in Singapore are probably feeling the stress or struggle to communicate with them.
I think those shops or restaurants who want to save $$ and hired china workers should have a big sign hanging outside the door--"We speak Chinese only". At least it saves my time or trouble from stepping in and then experiencing the agony of understanding chinese only.
Oh ,and then next you will hear foreigners complaining how Singapore language has dropped OR laughing how we cant even understand English...I wondered why...duh, can the foreigners (those who dont understand chinese language) able to tell if these servers in retail shops or waiters in restaurants are not Singaporeans?? Most likely NOT. Esp when some foreigners think all Asians look alike, ke ke.
Forget about our world class city tradition that we have achieved from the last few decades, these china workers are already "helping" to tarnish our reputation of a biligual society with English as the first language. I am still shocked on how in the world they are even put to serve in the front line counter ..This shocking situation can be experienced everywhere, gas station, retail shops, 7-eleven..How did this happen? Where is the "standard" of Singapore now??..Have we gone downhill?
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+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000 to
Originally posted by eagle:3 generations later, the children of the FTs that settled here will start complaining about FTs coming to Singapore to steal their jobs
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Originally posted by 333225520:
Singapore is opening the flood gate to doctor too ( Singapore to attract more foreign doctors). So let's see if this doctor can still keep his job.
Precisely why I said practically every industry (except some jobs in the army etc.) are subject to global competition. I have no problem with opening the floodgates to foreign doctors. That won't affect me, cos' the ones with my qualifications and skills are earning more in Europe, US and Australia. They should be worried that I compete with them for their jobs.
As Sun Tzi said, you must know yourself and your adversary. My job is secure because I am better value for money in the global market. Singaporeans who cannot compete will lopse their jobs. Those who compete on price will lose their pay.
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Originally posted by proudsinglish:
I am totally "FOR" the foreigners, as they will bring more colours and add more cultures in Singapore. The only problem i have is the govt is so "fixated" into bringing china "talent" only. For that I am against it. 1) They can't be like Singaporeans as they can only speak 1 language, "mandarin". 2) Singapore will soon turn from uniquely Singapore into "unique China".
Just step outside your house now, try eating out or go shopping, 50% of the chances you will find "china" ppl serving you. And what's worst, they assume everyone in Singapore speaks Chinese, whether you understand them or not, they still rely you in chinese. They seem to forget this is Singapore, not China. If the govt dont control these increasingly high volume of china ppl coming in and without knowing MIMIMUM ENGLISH, I can ensure everyone that Singapore will sooner or later become China. By then it's not Uniquely Singapore anymore since its no longer multicultural society.
I' m getting more and more worried about this disturbing situation, as Singapore is feeling less and less like a home to me. It doesn't seem to be a charming place meant for multi culture/ multi race to enjoy anymore, it's becoming more like a place suitable for chinese speaking china ppl only.The other races and foreigners in Singapore are probably feeling the stress or struggle to communicate with them.
I think those shops or restaurants who want to save $$ and hired china workers should have a big sign hanging outside the door--"We speak Chinese only". At least it saves my time or trouble from stepping in and then experiencing the agony of understanding chinese only.
Oh ,and then next you will hear foreigners complaining how Singapore language has dropped OR laughing how we cant even understand English...I wondered why...duh, can the foreigners (those who dont understand chinese language) able to tell if these servers in retail shops or waiters in restaurants are not Singaporeans?? Most likely NOT. Esp when some foreigners think all Asians look alike, ke ke.
Forget about our world class city tradition that we have achieved from the last few decades, these china workers are already "helping" to tarnish our reputation of a biligual society with English as the first language. I am still shocked on how in the world they are even put to serve in the front line counter ..This shocking situation can be experienced everywhere, gas station, retail shops, 7-eleven..How did this happen? Where is the "standard" of Singapore now??..Have we gone downhill?
Better thank your lucky stars that these PRC waiters/shop assistants speak only Mandarin at the moment. When they pick up English as well, the local receptionists will lose their job. When these PRC workers pick up paper qualifications with distance learning whilst working in Singapore, local clerks and secretaries will lose their job. When these PRC workers pick up IT certificates, our IT workers will see their pay slashed further.
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we only have the government to thank for stealing Singaporean's job.
so long as we have oxford morons around, guess things will never change.
oops must have been a freudian slip.
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Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:
Many with potential never make it past the interview or even resume filtering stage. but many from overseas are not that talented also but still get the job, denying a local with potential and same resume. So, when a person is not given the chance to even demonstrate his value for money, you cannot say he has no value.Sour grapes...how do you know foreign workers 'are not that talented'? Employers are not daft. No reason why they will not employ a local when he is asking for the same salary and has the same qualifications and experience as the foreign worker. Fact is: local fresh grads demand more pay than a foreign worker with experience in the job. If you are a fresh grad without previous experience, you must accept lower pay.
Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:
Why industry not advertising for freshies? Because FTs can come anytime and take a job. Many young foreigners from poorer countries long to come here having heard the wonderful news painted for them about a tiny island. If ask them to go europe , they know its too tough to enter. And the expectation there is extremely high. To the USA, its culture shock. Most of these foreigners are not into pop culture or us culture. And then there is the Pore. Just nice. They come bringing their cousins, and then the whole family tree. They can recommend anyone they know to apply for job here.Nothing to back your claims. Main reason employers (and they are Singaporean employers) prefer foreign workers for some jobs is because the FT can do the job and willing to do it for less. If the local fresh grad is prepared to accept the same pay as the FT, employers will take the local as they would not have to pay the government foreign workers levy. In any case, there is a cap on the number of FT a comapny can employ.
Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:but there are some fresh locals who get the job as fresh people but this is rare. They get it sometimes because their friends recommend them or they go for same price as foreigners. European IT freshies no need like this. they are still more higher paid.
Exactly so (bold emphasis by me). If fresh local grads are willing to go for the same salary, employers will hire them. No reason to hire a more expensive worker when a cheaper FT can do the job. That is the key: you have to ask yourself whether a FT can do your job for less pay. If so, you will lose that job. This is the real world.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
we only have the government to thank for stealing Singaporean's job.
so long as we have oxford morons around, guess things will never change.
oops must have been a freudian slip.
As usual, apart from personal atatcks you have no arguments to offer. No wonder foreign workers tend to get the job. They keep their mouth shut and their hands busy, unlike whiners like you. -
Originally posted by eagle:
Not practically every job. Government jobs or government related jobs are not.
Government jobs are available to foreigners unless they are sensitive or involve security issues. If you cannot compete with the PRC workers, try the army.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
As usual, apart from personal atatcks you have no arguments to offer. No wonder foreign workers tend to get the job. They keep their mouth shut and their hands busy, unlike whiners like you.
i learnt from you.the student has surpassed the master.
looks like you have lost your edge.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Government jobs are available to foreigners unless they are sensitive or involve security issues. If you cannot compete with the PRC workers, try the army.
maybe you can explain logically how these foreigners benefit the locals by snatching away their jobs.that is if you have the aptitude for it, historical evidence has proven that you are not very convincing.
any explanations? or you just going to repeat propaganda from local news media?
most of my exchanges with you result in you taking a hiatus after being cornered.
most notably was your understanding that Hong Kong private hospitals charges more than Singapore public hospitals.
also as interest rates rises, bonds prices rises too.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
As usual, apart from personal atatcks you have no arguments to offer. No wonder foreign workers tend to get the job. They keep their mouth shut and their hands busy, unlike whiners like you.
if i am a whiner, then you most likely be the gas that exudes from the P4P's posterior orifice.
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FT's are the Alpha and the Omega. lol
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Really. We'll see. Indian specialists are cheaper and in some instances more qualified. I think the ONLY doctors that are safe are highly skilled and experienced surgeons - these are skills that are extremely difficult to replace. And this guy says he can get better pay in higher standard of living countries and he's not there. Excuse me if I am skeptical.
IT can be outsourced to India wholesale so why bother bringing IN Indian IT engineers in the first place? Thats what I dont understand. The datacentres can located in India etc. even programmers dont have to leave India etc. PRC IT has a long way to catch up both terms of programming AND English from what I understand.
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If oxford mushroom really is a doctor, well I am not sure the language he used in some of his posts is behavior becoming of a doctor. Either he isnt what he says he is, or he really is an arrogant and (I quote from the "great" LKY) complacent prick boasting about his profession while posting anonymously in a political forum.
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
If oxford mushroom really is a doctor, well I am not sure the language he used in some of his posts is behavior becoming of a doctor. Either he isnt what he says he is, or he really is an arrogant and (I quote from the "great" LKY) complacent prick boasting about his profession while posting anonymously in a political forum.
It's a damn forum where most posters use singlish in their post. The other half use hanyu Pinyin.What do you expect?
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
Really. We'll see. Indian specialists are cheaper and in some instances more qualified. I think the ONLY doctors that are safe are highly skilled and experienced surgeons - these are skills that are extremely difficult to replace. And this guy says he can get better pay in higher standard of living countries and he's not there. Excuse me if I am skeptical.
IT can be outsourced to India wholesale so why bother bringing IN Indian IT engineers in the first place? Thats what I dont understand. The datacentres can located in India etc. even programmers dont have to leave India etc. PRC IT has a long way to catch up both terms of programming AND English from what I understand.
Believe me, Indian software engineers are overrated. The good ones have already left for silicon valley. Majority of the ones we get here have such "arcane" knowledge of programming that we'll throw them out after the interview.
Transcript shows profound knowledge in programming... yet cannot create a simple log in.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Government jobs are available to foreigners unless they are sensitive or involve security issues. If you cannot compete with the PRC workers, try the army.
1) Available to foreigners is not the same as under threat from foreigners.
2) Your 2nd statement is reminiscent of Gazelle's thread3) PRC's are nothing in my eyes. Neither are doctors.
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Originally posted by Uncle Ver SG:
IT can be outsourced to India wholesale so why bother bringing IN Indian IT engineers in the first place? Thats what I dont understand. The datacentres can located in India etc. even programmers dont have to leave India etc. PRC IT has a long way to catch up both terms of programming AND English from what I understand.
Why bringing in? As I have already mentioned in another thread to some thick skulled forumer, they are brought in because they can contribute taxes and expenditure to the Sg economy. So the money, instead of being outsourced to India, is spent within the Sg economy.
And that's why they are cheap; to compete with other data centres in India. Only sad thing is, they reduce wages here. Then again, I have also mentioned in another thread that there's no necessity to compete with FWs or FTs head on in areas which you do not have an advantage on; plain dumb to do that.
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I am thinking from the perspective of a company, not Singapore. Surely if rent and electricity is (so much) more expensive in Singapore, and you are using the same labour base from India, ceterius paribus, wouldnt you outsource to India instead of bringing in workers instead.
I know CrimsonLogic is Singapore Inc's attempt to become a Wipro but seriously you think they can really compete in the long run?
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Your dog is a FT...
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I got a army fren working in CrimsonLogic lol
I'm not sure why they do it now. But I'm pretty sure because of that reason, suppose there's any new labour law that restricts FWs in a company now, these companies can morph to outsourcing to India instead... (Again, I said this before but some thick skulled forumer could not accept this fact)
In the end, even the trickle down effect of jobs to locals in those companies would be gone...
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"suppose there's any new labour law that restricts FWs in a company now, these companies can morph to outsourcing to India instead... "
The trickle down effect of jobs are only the people providing food etc amenities and government bureaucrats.
There would no difference whatsover in terms of IT jobs - at least the infrastructure of Singapore will be not be overburdened, inflation doesnt increase. I believe Singapore should adopt a FT policy akin to Australia's own FT policy - skills based etc. and be transparent about the whole process and have a SET number of people open to review per year.
PAP not happy of course because the money collected from processing visa, tax etc like you said doesnt go to the government coffers to increase so and so ministers pay and increase number of bureaucrats etc.
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Originally posted by Q.C.Pak:
Your dog is a FT...
i seriously misread that and mentally swapped the place of the 2nd and the 5th word..
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The trickle down effect of jobs are only the people providing food etc amenities and government bureaucrats.
Still got trickle down effect le lor. That's what I meant... When pple stay here or come here to work, there are still a lot of other supporting jobs and niche markets...
PAP not happy of course because the money collected from processing visa, tax etc like you said doesnt go to the government coffers to increase so and so ministers pay and increase number of bureaucrats etc.
Haha... Nice dig at them... But I guess it is more of having more money back into the economy, and this results in greater increase in the economy due to multiplier effect...