Should our pastors get involve in politics?
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After the obama pastor incident that rocked USA hope for a black president and raise the black race position in white america, should pastors just keep quiet and not talk politics?
What if our famous pastors from City harvest and new creation talk race and politics, supporting our opposition party?
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And what happen when difference leaders of difference religion all wants their said and wants their way
In the US...... Religion & Politics are kept separate. Something that serve them and us well.....
if that pastors from City harvest decide to talk race and politics.... then some Imam from some Mosque would wants to do the same.... follow by more leaders of some Temple or other places of worship.....
That is something we should not have in S'pore....
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While the Church can involve its members to be concious of their social responsibilities towards the fellow citizens in their communities and country, it becomes a different issue when the leader of the Church decide to challenge the position of the leaders of the Government.
Some religions insist that their religious teachings is relevant in guiding, involving and encompasses the complete man - the political, socio-cultural, moral, philosophical and religious needs of man.
While religion serves as a beacon to guide a person in his responsiblity to live his life for himself and his relationship with those around him, it does not allow the Pastor or the Church Leader to use his / her position in the Church for personal political gains.
If the Pastor or Church Leader decide to enter politics - he / she should declare his / her position, and do not preach his / her version of ''religious influenced politics'' from his / her pulpit.
The Pastor or Church Leader could enter the political fray by joining a political party to actively involve himself in politics and guided by his own religious tenets and moral beliefs, and stand on equal ground with all politicians to gain his own political standing in the community.
There are religions today that will allow any one with the gift of the gap - {but whose brain is half as intelligent as the mouth} - to usurp the pulpit to stir the congregation with fiery speeches in the hour long sermon, to a captive audience that has assembled to comfort their own religious needs.
Many of these schemers have gained political prominence by the backdoor through the powers available from the pulpit that control the minds of those that are weak and troubled turning to religion to find comfort and answers to their problems.
In many cases, the stronger minded religious persons will be sidelined by brute force or by politics from these usurpers of the pulpit, enabling these shady characters to hijack the religion for their own political agenda.
Politics should be played on a level playing field.
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Mixing politics and religion is too dangerous.
...In the West, the Roman Empire (which continued in the East as the Byzantine Empire) disappeared in 476 and, although many efforts were made to revive it, there was clearly a period, about goo, when there was no empire, no state, and no public authority in the West.
The state disappeared, yet society continued.
So also, religious and economic life continued.
This clearly showed that the state and society were not the same thing, that society was the basic entity, and that the state was a crowning, but not essential, cap to the social structure.
This experience had revolutionary effects.
It was discovered that man can live without a state; this became the basis of Western liberalism.
It was discovered that the state, if it exists, must serve men and that it is incorrect to believe that the purpose of men is to serve the state.
It was discovered that economic life, religious life, law, and private property can all exist and function effectively without a state.
From this emerged laissez-faire, separation of Church and State, rule of law, and the sanctity of private property.
In Rome, in Byzantium, and in Russia, law was regarded as an enactment of a supreme power.
In the West, when no supreme power existed, it was discovered that law still existed as the body of rules which govern social life.
Thus law was found by observation in the West, not enacted by autocracy as in the East.
This meant that authority was established by law and under the law in the West, while authority was established by power and above the law in the East.
The West felt that the rules of economic life were found and not enacted; that individuals had rights independent of, and even opposed to, public authority; that groups could exist, as the Church existed, by right and not by privilege, and without the need to have any charter of incorporation entitling them to exist as a group or act as a group; that groups or individuals could own property as a right and not as a privilege and that such property could not be taken by force but must be taken by established process of law...
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As far as I know pastors in Singapore are obedient servant of the regime in that they submit to the will of tyrant than to the will of God should they clash.....LOL. The flock would submit to the will of tyrant than to the teaching as well when they clash with each other.
The ruler dominates even religious leaders and religious life of the flock.
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
As far as I know pastors in Singapore are obedient servant of the regime in that they submit to the will of tyrant than to the will of God should they clash.....LOL. The flock would submit to the will of tyrant than to the teaching as well when they clash with each other.
The ruler dominates even religious leaders and religious life of the flock.
Pastors told the congregation that the govt is appointed by God so must submit to the gahmen. This pure shit, brainwashing.
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won't happened in singapore.
our dear leader lky already has a locked in with all the religious leaders already. anyone stepping out of line will get a personal spank from the eternal leader.
even God dare not interfere.
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seems lky regards himself God. If lky is god, lky is evil god, greedy god, arrogant god, self centred god , god who has super inflated fragile ego.
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Originally posted by qlqq9:
... god who has super inflated fragile ego.
Hmm fragile ego from a fragile personality steaming from low selfesteem which is masqueraded with overesteem or over selfconfident in fact you can say narcissistic. But then again I'm not a character expert but I do know that the tyrant in Singapore has a fragile selfesteem.
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
Hmm fragile ego from a fragile personality steaming from low selfesteem which is masqueraded with overesteem or over selfconfident. But then again I'm not a character expert but I do know that the tyrant in Singapore has a fragile selfesteem.
You are really sharp. We know he is more than what we talk about here, more bad than good.
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Somewhere in the New Testament of the Bible, it was recorded that Jesus had said :
''Render to Caesar what belong to him, and to God those that he asked for.....''
Is this not clear enough that in the separation of the State and Religion ?
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And when Caesar ask you to swear falsely to defame your own son who is innocent, to say cruel things to him when he is innocent to show hostility to innocent man, would you give to caesar what doesn't belong to him?
Or when the Caesar started to demand you to kill innocent man. I mean really there's nothing wrong he has done to anyone or to destroy a man's life. Would you give to caesar what doesn't belong to him?
In the old testament the King of Babylon once demanded the whole country to worship him. Three wise Jews refused to let in to his demand.
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Into the insanity of monomania created by the shattering of the Germanic tribes came the sudden recognition of a better system, which could be, they thought, equally secure, equally meaningful, because equally total.
This was symbolized by the word Rome.
It is almost impossible for us, of the West and of today, imbued as we are with historical perspective and individualism, to see what Classical culture was like, and why it appealed to the Germans.
Both may be summed up in the word "total."
The Greek polis, like the Roman imperium, was total.
We in the West have escaped the fascination of totalitarianism because we have in our tradition other elements—the refusal of the Hebrews to confuse God with the world, or religion with the state, and the realization that God is transcendental, and, accordingly, all other things must be, in some degree, incomplete and thus imperfect.
We also have, in our tradition, Christ, who stood apart from the state and told his followers to "Render to Caesar the things which are Caesar's."
And we have in our tradition the church of the catacombs, where clearly human values were neither united nor total, and were opposed to the state.
The Germans, as later the Russians, escaped the full influence of these elements in the tradition of the West.
The Germans and the Russians knew Rome only in its post-Constantine phase when the Christian emperors were seeking to preserve the totalitarian system of Dioclesian, but in a Christian rather than a pagan totalitarianism.
This was the system the detribalized Germans glimpsed just before it also was shattered.
They saw it as a greater, larger, more powerful entity than the tribe but with the same elements which they wanted to preserve from their tribal past...
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Originally posted by hloc:
In the US...... Religion & Politics are kept separate. Something that serve them and us well.....
are u kidding me? churches in USA does not pay taxes, furthermore, they are involving in a religion against iraq.....
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Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
As far as I know pastors in Singapore are obedient servant of the regime in that they submit to the will of tyrant than to the will of God should they clash.....LOL. The flock would submit to the will of tyrant than to the teaching as well when they clash with each other.
The ruler dominates even religious leaders and religious life of the flock.
What you know is wrong! Pastors in Singapore are not obedient servant of any regime. They know what is politics, what is religion, obviously you don't. So don't bring in the church, the pastors or the flock into your world of politics. You go to church?
Talking about submitting to the will of tyrant, do you pay ERP, CBC, income tax, GST as dictated by the tyrant?
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are u kidding me? churches in USA does not pay taxes, furthermore, they are involving in a religion against iraq.....
Are you saying that Churches don't have to pay taxes..... but Mosque does
Or is a Buddist Temple the one who had to pay Taxes only...... you have any prove As for - "Religion (war) Against Iraq" - I think that's what you were try to said.....
I'm sure you must have some prove to show us here..... like a email from some US church leader ordering Bush to attack Iraq..... or something like dat.....
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That would risk dividing Singapore into groups instead of achieving integration among Singaporean collectively as a multi-ethnic society.
Beside, there might surfaces 'spillover effect' on the social disharmony as well as political instability and arouse unhappy sentiment among the rest of the religions. I share with Atobe that pastors should not get with state politics but rather restrict to their own Church's Ministries. This is to prevent influencing the leader's judgement in crafting nation policy.
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er? to me its usless.. i was from chc before.... trust me.. kong is also a business man..
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Originally posted by hloc:
Are you saying that Churches don't have to pay taxes..... but Mosque does
Or is a Buddist Temple the one who
had to pay Taxes only...... you have any prove As for - "Religion (war) Against Iraq" - I think that's what you were try to said.....
I'm sure you must have some prove to show us here..... like a email from some US church leader ordering Bush to attack Iraq..... or something like dat.....
yeh Religion war Against Iraq( missed such an important word ...), in other words,religion war.
you might want to dig out information from the web in regards to the war and the conspiracy. I don't think there is such thing as an email from US church leader ordering Bush to attack Iraq, if there is, it will be highly confidential or otherwise it will be the biggest conspiracy ever in the history if it were to happen this way.
the American is paying taxes for the sake of building more churches,funding their religion activities and pay no taxes. Information and resource you are looking for can be found on youtube,documentry,online resource and etc.
Mosque in America o_0?!?! you might want to enlighten me if there is one out there in America.
Everything I said here is what I have seen and heard, basically from online news, documentry, radio and etc. Accuracy wise please do not take my word for it, go ahead and do some research on whatever I said here.
my apologies for u is that I don't think I can provide you the resources since I do not bookmark them or whatsoever, but like I said, there is plenty of them in the internet.
arr anyway, i think is off topic already, anything u can msg me de.
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hei guys, talking about the war in Iraq being a "religious" war by Christian churches in America against Iraq is really out of line with the topic.
Christianity has great influence in America, just like Islam has great influence in the middle eastern countries, in the same way Buddhism has great influence in Thailand and Catholitism in the Philippines. But anything that happens between any of the two countries cannot be inferred as clashes of the religions, or it would be easy for some fanetics to cry out for jihah or holy war.
We need to be able to discern the difference or else we would get into unnecessary disputes or worse, used by politicians for their own agenda.
Whether we like LKY or Chiam ST or Chee SJ, keep religions away from politics, and we will continue to enjoy peace. cheers.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
What you know is wrong! Pastors in Singapore are not obedient servant of any regime. They know what is politics, what is religion, obviously you don't. So don't bring in the church, the pastors or the flock into your world of politics. You go to church?
Talking about submitting to the will of tyrant, do you pay ERP, CBC, income tax, GST as dictated by the tyrant?
I'm speaking from first hand experience.
I say again even the (most of) flock would go according to tyrant's will rather than to go according to God's law.
Yes I go to church almost never pass on it weekly.
I say again give to caesar what belongs to him. But would you give to caesar what doesn't belong to him?
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
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Whether we like LKY or Chiam ST or Chee SJ, keep religions away from politics, and we will continue to enjoy peace. cheers.
Agree totally so LKY even has no right to dominate religious life and religous leaders and their flocks as it is now.
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yeh Religion war Against Iraq( missed such an important word ...), in other words,religion war.
you might want to dig out information from the web in regards to the war and the conspiracy. I don't think there is such thing as an email from US church leader ordering Bush to attack Iraq, if there is, it will be highly confidential or otherwise it will be the biggest conspiracy ever in the history if it were to happen this way.
the American is paying taxes for the sake of building more churches,funding their religion activities and pay no taxes. Information and resource you are looking for can be found on youtube,documentry,online resource and etc.
Mosque in America o_0?!?! you might want to enlighten me if there is one out there in America.
Everything I said here is what I have seen and heard, basically from online news, documentry, radio and etc. Accuracy wise please do not take my word for it, go ahead and do some research on whatever I said here.
my apologies for u is that I don't think I can provide you the resources since I do not bookmark them or whatsoever, but like I said, there is plenty of them in the internet.
arr anyway, i think is off topic already, anything u can msg me de.
Bro/Sis..... in the Internet you would find all sort of stuff and theory..... from what really happen in Roswell, Who really kill JFK, Where is Elvis hidding, What happen during 911..... and my least fav, How God Will Be Please If You Kill An Infidel..... etc.
Internet is both a good sourse of information.... and Mis-information.
What you believe in.... very much depends on which side you are on.....
Cheers
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Originally posted by hloc:
Bro/Sis..... in the Internet you would find all sort of stuff and theory..... from what really happen in Roswell, Who really kill JFK, Where is Elvis hidding, What happen during 911..... and my least fav, How God Will Be Please If You Kill An Infidel..... etc.
Internet is both a good sourse of information.... and Mis-information.
What you believe in.... very much depends on which side you are on.....
Cheers
ar yes,we all agreed that internet can be both good and bad, but then again, what are u trying to prove here?
regarding to churches in US does not pay taxes is even in the news, news i mean like new york times, NBC and etc.
and i did mentioned to you that i got the information from various resources, Documentry, news and etc, which all proven my point.
and that so sad for my case, you are telling me that i cannot trust the news from NBC,foxnews, late night news and etc =[
lolz, you are trying to disprove me due to the fact that information i got is all false because internet has lots of mis information... arghhh , i want to vomit blood..lolz
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Many of you feel the need to be cautious in mixing politics and religion because we the people have been brainwashed into believing such a need to separate the functions of state from religion.
If the government is indeed a good government which looks after the people, practise morality and compassions and citizens are looked after for their basic needs and necessities, will there be such an urgent need for any one to preach such morality and rights of citizesn in the pulpit.
If there is injustice committed against the people resulting in people talking to their pastors of problems caused who is the cause of such problems requiring the intervention of pastors to play a part in putting wrongs to right. If a pastor offers views on the need for government to look after its people instead of pushing all its resposibilities back to them and keeping all the taxes for their own purposes then shouldn't the pastors speak up and correct such wrongs instead of timidly fearing to preach values and correctitude from the pulpit.
So all the issues of government and religions are interconnected and should be scrutinised for rights and wrongs and not simply be treated in such a simplistic manner like pilitics and religions should be separated when in reality they are not separable.
Practising politics and religions at the same time needs a higher level of maturity and it is hoped one day a pastor joining a party is no longer taboo like now.