Olympics troubles are about resisting big bullies
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Check your records. What was the local economy like before the Chinese invasion and what is it like now? What's the average lifespan of Tibetans before and after the Chinese takeover? What proportion of Tibetans own their homes then and now? :)so... it is about money?
Do They Know How to Spell Dishonor?
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For most singaporean is about money.
But for the tibet is about keeping the freedom to practice their way of heritage and culture to practics the observing of peace thru the viture of arts form - Mandala. (which I think it is Priceless Human art form)
It is thru the observing and the making of the Mandala that they communicate and transcend peace thru the collective consiouness.
Now please tell me which part of this could survive patriotics education? I think the Chinese government come to realizes the fact that lama pysche keep reincarnate and if they keep re-generate every few decade so is the idea of independent.
Personnally i think the idea of independent will continue unless Tibetain feel that they are free. So at the end of the day it is Irony for the chinese government to impose so much yet to find themselve struggle to keep it. Because if the tibetian don;t feel that they are free enough the idea of freedom will continue till end of time.
Do you think the Chinese Communist party is going to stay that long?
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... and just to add...
In the beginning it might very well be economic development to lift people out of poverty but if people do not stop the despots, soon they will find themselves in onerous situations like being charged S$800K for some HDB flats
.The Tibetans are not silliporeans....
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
... and just to add...
In the beginning it might very well be economic development to lift people out of poverty but if people do not stop the despots, soon they will find themselves in onerous situations like being charged S$800K for some HDB flats
.The Tibetans are not silliporeans....
As a foreigner, I had thought that Singaporeans only care about making money ....... until I discovered this forum and how many Singaporeans reacted to the current well-coordinated Anti-Chinese sentiment. Singaporeans are not silliporeans as you believe.
I do not believe that Chinese are ignorant about the fact of life in China at all. Last December I visited one of my friend's home in Anhui, which many said is a very poor province. I spent almost 2 weeks staying in a remote village. His family were farmers and later migrated to big cities like Hefei and Shanghai. I accompanied him to visit his grandfather because I wanted to get a feel of how my grandfather lived in his outback village (already became a reservoir) in Chaoshan Diqu before fleeing the civil war to Singapore and then Thailand. They do not live in 1st-world condition like us, of course. What I discovered was still different from what are always reported in the mainstream western media that the peasants are very unhappy with the central government and the end of communism is coming soon. In fact the Chinese communists are quite resilient. They try to make the rural China as self-sufficient as possible. And they have achieved it. So compared to some democratic but corruption-rife countries, this is already a great achievement for a country of 1.3 billion people.
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I had thought that Singaporeans only care about making money
This is due to the policies of the PAP.
Since the general population has been depoliticised, the only motivation left is materialism, which cannot really satisfy the individual.
The cultural element also has been weakened.
This is due to the worthless education system.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Check your records. What was the local economy like before the Chinese invasion and what is it like now? What's the average lifespan of Tibetans before and after the Chinese takeover? What proportion of Tibetans own their homes then and now? :)
For the record, the richest population in Tibet before Chinese takeover were Tibetans but after that, Han Chinese are the richest people in Tibet. -
Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
This is due to the policies of the PAP.
Since the general population has been depoliticised, the only motivation left is materialism, which cannot really satisfy the individual.
The cultural element also has been weakened.
This is due to the worthless education system.
den what can satisfy the individual..? freedom of speech..?
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hey andrew hows ur book?
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
For the record, the richest population in Tibet before Chinese takeover were Tibetans but after that, Han Chinese are the richest people in Tibet.
where is the information to support "the record"? -
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
For most singaporean is about money.
But for the tibet is about keeping the freedom to practice their way of heritage and culture to practics the observing of peace thru the viture of arts form - Mandala. (which I think it is Priceless Human art form)
It is thru the observing and the making of the Mandala that they communicate and transcend peace thru the collective consiouness.
Now please tell me which part of this could survive patriotics education? I think the Chinese government come to realizes the fact that lama pysche keep reincarnate and if they keep re-generate every few decade so is the idea of independent.
Personnally i think the idea of independent will continue unless Tibetain feel that they are free. So at the end of the day it is Irony for the chinese government to impose so much yet to find themselve struggle to keep it. Because if the tibetian don;t feel that they are free enough the idea of freedom will continue till end of time.
Do you think the Chinese Communist party is going to stay that long?
Raising standard of living is not just about money, better medical care to reduce childbirth survival rate is not about money, better education is not about money, equal opportunity for the landlord, the Lama, and ordinary Tibetans is not about money, better infrastructure for the region is not about money.
Are the Tibetans monks not practicing their religion in Tibet, together with millions of Buddhist monks and nuns in China, though of different Buddhist sects? Are they any different from the monks and nuns in Bhutan, Nepal and India?
All religion talks about freedom, to the Buddhists, it is achieving the state of enlightenment, sarvajna, which require believers to be completely free from negative states of mind such as hatred and desirous attachment, and the delusion which imagine inherent existence. Tibetan Buddhist believes that their practice of Vajrayana is the fastest way to attain Buddhahood. To Christian, they are only passing through, freedom comes from attaining eternal life by grace of Jesus Christ. Don’t tell me that good Buddhists or Christians are not patriotic to their countries!!
Bear in mind this, pre-1950 Tibet was a theocracy with a feudal serfdom system. Most of the arable land was organized into manorial estates owned by rich theocratic lamas and secular landlords. The majority of the population in old Tibet was serfs under a lifetime bond to work the lord's land—or the monastery’s land—without pay. And yet they were heavily taxed.
Dalai Lama who continues to fight for political power to return to their palace, Tibetan aristocratic landlord who continues to fight for the return to control the serfs, ought to realise that political power and physical wealth run contrary to their continuing effort to achieve the state of Sarvajna, if they do believe in it.
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A Chinese student in France, watching the recent Olympic protest in Paris, reported the following on his blog: A French girl, aged five or six, asked her mother why people were trying to snatch the Olympic torch from Chinese athletes.
Her mother replied: " The Chinese have occupied Tibet by force for 50 years. Those protesters want to take this chance to express their wish for freedom."
The Tibet Autonomous Region, like Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, is one among China's 34 provincial administrative regions. No government in the world denies this fact. Neverthless, the French mother imparted her perception of Tibet as " occupied " to her child.
The French celebrated enthusiastically the Chinese Cultural Year in 2003. Why, suddenly, has a wall appeared between China and the West ?
The trigger was the riots in Lhasa on March 14. Rioters destroyed 908 shops , seven schools, 120 residential homes, five hospitals and 10 banking network points. At least 20 buildings were burned down and 84 vehicles were smashed. Eighteen innocents were burned or stabbed to death and 380 civilians were injured.
The Dalai clique based in India depicted these flagrant criminal acts as " peaceful demonstrations " and made up a non-existent " death list " of nearly 100 " protesters ". Western media broadcast these claims to the world.
The Dalai clique's secessionist activities began after the Dalai Lama fled China in 1959. Before he fled, he was a member of the Chinese central government. In February 1951, not long after the People's Republic of China was founded, the Dalai Lama appointed Ngapoi Ngawang Jigme as his chief negotiator with the central government.
On May 23, 1951, the Agreement of the Central People's Government and the Local Government of Tibet on Measures for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet was signed in Beijing.
The Dalai Lama sent a telegram to Chairman Mao Zedong to express his support for the agreement and his determination to implement it. In September 1954, he was elected vice-chairman of the Standing Committee of the First National People's Congress and, later in 1956, he became the chair of the Preparatory Committee for the Tibet Autonomous Region.
The relationship between Dalai Lama and the central government changed after he fled China. But the fact that Tibet is an inalienable part of China cannot be changed because of his defection. As the now 98-year-old Ngapoi Ngawang Jigme has said : " So-called " Tibet independence " had never existed before the 20th century. It was fabricated by people with ulterior motives."
The feudal dynasties of China had exercised effective sovereignty over Tibet centuries before Europeans landed in the Americas. In the 13th century , the Yuan Dynasty designated Tibet as an administrative region of China. The Ming Dynasty continued to exercise sovereignty over Tibet.
From the 17th century onwards, the Qing Dynasty had comprehensive and sophisticated governance over Tibet. Qing emperors granted honorifics titles to the 5th Dalai Lama and the 5th Bainqen Lama in 1653 and 1713, respectively, officially establishing the " Dalai Lama " and " Bainqen Erdeni " titles. It has since become an established practice that the reincarnations of all future Dalai and Bainqen Lamas are to be approved by the central authority.
From 1727 to 1911, altogether 57 Ambans ( ministers in charge of Tibet affairs in the Qing Dynasty ) were stationed in Tibet to supervise local administration on behalf of the central authority. In the early 20th century, the Republic of China set up an agency for Tibet affairs, with an office in Lhasa, while Tibet sent representatives to the National Congress, as did other provinces. The enthronement of the current 14th Dalai Lama was approved by the then Nationalist government.
Some people say the Dalai Lama wants " high-level autonomy ", not " independence ", for Tibet. But no government in the world would allow such " autonomy " in its territory as the Dalai Lama demands for Tibet.
The so-called " high-level autonomy and real autonomy " he seeks would involve the following: Withdrawal of Chinese troops and military installations from Tibet ; Tibet being able to establish diplomatic ties with other countries and international organisations ; the establishment of a Great Tibetan Zone of 2.4 million sq km, to include areas inhabited by Tibetans in the provinces of Qinghai, Gansu and Sichuan and Yunnan ; non-Tibetans to move out of this zone, etc.
In essence, the Dalai Lama's " high-level autonomy " would deny the central government sovereignty over Tibet and would be tantamount to independence for it. This of course will by no means be accepted by the central government.
The Dalai Lama argues that Tibetans are being reduced to an insignificant minority in their own land, and that there is cultural genocide. The fact is Tibet has made historic achievements in economic and social development. It has achieved an average annual of 12 per cent in the past seven years. Its population has increased from about 1.2 million in 1964 to more than 2.5 million now, with Tibetans constituting 98.4 per cent of the population.
Over the past 20 years, the central government has appropriated more than 700 million yuan ( S$135 million ) for the preservation and maintenance for monasteries, cultural relics and religious sites in Tibet.
There are currently 1,787 religious sites and over 46,000 lamas and nuns in the autonomous region. More than 50 institutes on Tibetan studies have been set up nationwide. Tibetan TV and radio services broadcast in both Tibetan and Mandarin.
Newspapers, magazines and books in Tibetan can be found everywhere. The Tibetan language is taught in all types of schools. As an integral part of Chinese culture, traditional Tibetan culture has been protected by the central government.
Where Tibet is concerned, media reports that ignore China's voice may not be impartial. The Lhasa incident of March 14 was a serious criminal act; the Dalai clique was behind the riot; the police showed great restraint without using lethal weapons.
The Chinese media has reported these facts repeatedly. Regrettably, Western media turned a deaf ear to these reports and have one-sidedly magnified the voices calling for an independent Tibet.
As a result, people may have got the impression that Chinese soldiers cracked down with iron fists on Tibetan monks demonstrating peacefully, and that many Tibetans died from the bullets of the conquerors. However, as the Austrian newspaper der Standard pointed out on March 26, these reports were based in second-hand information from exiled Tibetans living in India and Radio Free Asia, a private radio station funded by the US Congress, have mentioned that neither of these sources is neutral.
More recently, Western media outlets have disclosed that American and German organisations, together with the " Tibetan government-in-exile ", jointly worked out a " Plan of Action " in May 2007 to set off a wave of anti-China demonstrations to coincide with the Beijing Olympics. This , if true, indicates the involvement of international politics in the Tibet issue.
Since China's opening-up three decades ago, the Chinese people have been trying to know more about the world and have tried to be known. The 2008 Olympics is a golden opportunity in this regard. Understanding China --a nation of 1.3 billion people-- is necessary to build a harmonious world. Misunderstanding China or hostility towards China would favour neither China nor the world.
We hope that the world can have a comprehensive view of the past and present of Tibet in particular, and of China in general, so that the gap in perception between Chinese and Westerners can be bridged.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
For the record, the richest population in Tibet before Chinese takeover were Tibetans but after that, Han Chinese are the richest people in Tibet.For the record, the richest population in Tibet before the Chinese takeover was a tiny handful of elite Tibetan monks who owned most of the land and the people. Yes, the people....these so-called religious lamas owned agricultural slaves or nongnu, as well as low-ranking lamas, who were no better than slaves.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
Raising standard of living is not just about money, better medical care to reduce childbirth survival rate is not about money, better education is not about money, equal opportunity for the landlord, the Lama, and ordinary Tibetans is not about money, better infrastructure for the region is not about money.
Are the Tibetans monks not practicing their religion in Tibet, together with millions of Buddhist monks and nuns in China, though of different Buddhist sects? Are they any different from the monks and nuns in Bhutan, Nepal and India?
All religion talks about freedom, to the Buddhists, it is achieving the state of enlightenment, sarvajna, which require believers to be completely free from negative states of mind such as hatred and desirous attachment, and the delusion which imagine inherent existence. Tibetan Buddhist believes that their practice of Vajrayana is the fastest way to attain Buddhahood. To Christian, they are only passing through, freedom comes from attaining eternal life by grace of Jesus Christ. Don’t tell me that good Buddhists or Christians are not patriotic to their countries!!
Bear in mind this, pre-1950 Tibet was a theocracy with a feudal serfdom system. Most of the arable land was organized into manorial estates owned by rich theocratic lamas and secular landlords. The majority of the population in old Tibet was serfs under a lifetime bond to work the lord's land—or the monastery’s land—without pay. And yet they were heavily taxed.
Dalai Lama who continues to fight for political power to return to their palace, Tibetan aristocratic landlord who continues to fight for the return to control the serfs, ought to realise that political power and physical wealth run contrary to their continuing effort to achieve the state of Sarvajna, if they do believe in it.
Nobody denial that Money is not important but Money isn;t everything (similary to SG) also bare in mind that the subject of abondan is relatives does not mean that they are starving. It could be a perspective that prefer to lead life humble.tibet are Lama they eat meat and i believe they married so they are involved in secular living. That is to say they have attachment and emotion same goes to everybody.
Path to enlightenment isn't thru Buddist 101, most religion answer to a higher calling. Patriotics education does not lead to enlightenment it leads to revolution.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Nobody denial that Money is not important but Money isn;t everything (similary to SG) also bare in mind that the subject of abondan is relatives does not mean that they are starving. It could be a perspective that prefer to lead life humble.tibet are Lama they eat meat and i believe they married so they are involved in secular living. That is to say they have attachment and emotion same goes to everybody.
Path to enlightenment isn't thru Buddist 101, most religion answer to a higher calling. Patriotics education does not lead to enlightenment it leads to revolution.
You dont' get it do you? Patriotics education is never intended to lead to enlightenment. Religious calling call for religious path, political power is contrary to the higher calling.
Don't try to argue on subject you don't know. There is no Buddhist 101, spend 2 years in monastry in Tibet and you will know what is the path to enlightenment.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
You dont' get it do you? Patriotics education is never intended to lead to enlightenment. Religious calling call for religious path, political power is contrary to the higher calling.
Don't try to argue on subject you don't know. There is no Buddhist 101, spend 2 years in monastry in Tibet and you will know what is the path to enlightenment.
Precisely since there are no path to enlightenment so how do u subject Tibetian what to think and what not to think. Wake up. patriotics education is nothing more than social engineering propaganda Pointing to a deer and said is a Dog.Do you know what's your assumption is to have both. And I am telling you cannot have both. Have the Cake and eat it all. and achieve the result of enlightenment this is the same mentality of PAP.
If everything can be cultivated SG will be come up TOP in every field. Social engineering does not help to preserve the essence of tibetian heritage.
You cannot suka suka force teaching that contradict few hundred years old traddition.
Bottomline you won't know what you lost until is gone. What is left is empty building. The lost of humanity will be felt thru your next generation.
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... it is a good thing that there are still honorable people in this world that refuse to let ape behavior to florish...
Beijing to hold talks with Dalai Lama's envoys
International Herald Tribune - 4 hours ago
By Jim Yardley BEIJING: Under increasing pressure from Europe and elsewhere, the Chinese government announced Friday that it would meet with envoys of the Dalai Lama, an unexpected shift that comes as Tibetan unrest in western China has threatened to ...
China Offers to Meet with Dalai Lama Representative Voice of America
Chinese Respond to Pressure, But Will the Dalai Lama? Washington Post
Times of India - Reuters - Bloomberg - AFP
all 1,050 news articles »Unfortunately there are too few in Singapore and people like Dr Chee and Mr JBJ continue to suffer at the hands of the dishonorable despots...
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it never fails to disgust me.. how u can make ur opposition sound like angels..
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actually the tibetan protests have nothing to do with human rights. if u visit tibet, theyre happy there. they dont have to pay taxes and they go hang out at internet cafes and play sports. they DO get to practice their religion.
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Despotic Propaganda...
China-Dalai Lama talks unlikely to bring success: analysts
AFP - 1 hour ago
BEIJING (AFP) - China's offer to hold talks with aides to the Dalai Lama is unlikely to bring a breakthrough on Tibet, experts cautioned Saturday, saying it was a PR exercise ahead of the Beijing Olympics. -
I agree, the talks will be most likely a PR ploy to relief the pressure from the Tibetan protesters.
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Originally posted by Poh Ah Pak:
I agree, the talks will be most likely a PR ploy to relief the pressure from the Tibetan protesters.
There are many ways to skin a cat. Let them have their day before the Olympics. After that, throw all these murdering hooligans to die in the Gobi Desert. -
After that, throw all these murdering hooligans to die in the Gobi Desert.
Just deal the proper punishment that is enough.
Violence begets violence.
Even I just want Lee Kuan Yew to die peacefully.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Precisely since there are no path to enlightenment so how do u subject Tibetian what to think and what not to think. Wake up. patriotics education is nothing more than social engineering propaganda Pointing to a deer and said is a Dog.Do you know what's your assumption is to have both. And I am telling you cannot have both. Have the Cake and eat it all. and achieve the result of enlightenment this is the same mentality of PAP.
If everything can be cultivated SG will be come up TOP in every field. Social engineering does not help to preserve the essence of tibetian heritage.
You cannot suka suka force teaching that contradict few hundred years old traddition.
Bottomline you won't know what you lost until is gone. What is left is empty building. The lost of humanity will be felt thru your next generation.
"Precisely since there are no path to enlightenment so how do u subject Tibetian what to think and what not to think." what a profound statement, go tell your buddhist friend there are no path to englightenment.I rest my case.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
"Precisely since there are no path to enlightenment so how do u subject Tibetian what to think and what not to think." what a profound statement, go tell your buddhist friend there are no path to englightenment.I rest my case.
Since there are no path to enlightenment as such it needs the abilities to explore in its own term. Without undue influent of politics. That is Humanity expressing. -
as predicted by the analysts... the despots want to cling on to power at all cost by any dishnorable means, including propaganda....
China heaps more criticism on Dalai Lama and his followers
The Associated Press - 6 hours ago
BEIJING (AP) - China heaped more criticism on the Dalai Lama and his followers on Sunday, accusing them of using empty words and concepts as a facade for their goal of independence.
Tibet's mountain highway readies for Olympic spectacle Reuters
Japan FM calls for China transparency over Tibet AFP
International Herald Tribune - Xinhua - Reuters South Africa - Voice of America
all 1,698 news articles »