What should be the minimum annual wages for Singaporeans?
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One of the advantage behind implementing a minimum HOURLY wage is to protect all employees in Singapore regardless of nationality/race/age/educational level. Say our lowest hourly wage in Singapore is $4/hour for an employee working in a fast food outlet or some long kang digger occupation, by increasing that hourly rate to say....$12/hour, it would encourage people working at the minimum hourly rate to be more productive at their job, encourages more people taking up lower income jobs or skilled jobs, providing a lifestyle confidence and future security guarantee to low income earners, leading to the increase in quality of service and committment in low income jobs, minimised salary exploitations from any employers, transforming and marketing Singapore into a workforce of talents to the world market and displaying our political strength and security to our neighbouring countries and the rest of the world.
The action would seal the significant salary and lifestyle gap between the lower income earner group and the middle income earner group. Once the minimum HOURLY wage is set, the employers would have to implement it and lower income earners in the company will benefit immediately. How the rest of the hourly wages are adjusted for middle income or higher earners will be determined by the employers themselves. The move will create workforce benefits for employees across the market, as employees are now ranked accordingly to how much they earned per hour based on their monthly wages. Say, instead of giving a pay rise to an employee, the employer could choose to reduce the number of working hours which the employee works in a month and still remained paid the same amount of monthly salary. Thus providing more time and relaxation for employees to recharge themselves and at least keep up with their productivity in the workforce or even increase in productivity.
This would also instill some form of pride and respect among the lower income earners in the workforce as even long kang diggers would be regarded as a profession waste recyclers if they are paid professionally.
16/f/lonely is an individual who doesn't have a vision for the people and the country of Singapore, and it is understandable that she is unable to provide or support with any positive feedbacks or suggestions as "she" is still "young" and probably still feeling "lonely". I'm so glad that Singapore is managed by "HER".
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Nice try..... Stop trying to pick me up.
Unfortunately you missed out a few points.
1) What should the minimum wage be? You, my dear friend, as a employee will be happy, but the employer? And when employers pull out or some even become bankrupt as they find that they cannot pass on the extra costs, who do you think suffers most ultimately? YOU!
2) Will people really be encouraged to bemore productive? WRONG. I don't blame you for saying that people will be more productive, because it was indeed one of the benefits IN THEORY. What really happened, as the govts found out was people became LESS productive. Apparently the people worked fewer hours for the same pay.
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In the US we have some politicians that are always promising to raise the minimum wage. Once the masses realize that they can vote themselves more money. It's all over!
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Originally posted by Eddie Lee:
In the US we have some politicians that are always promising to raise the minimum wage. Once the masses realize that they can vote themselves more money. It's all over!
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Read this, from Wiki:
Many supporters of the minimum wage assert that it is a matter of ethics and social justice that helps reduce exploitation and ensures workers can afford what are considered to be basic necessities.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Read this, from Wiki:
Many supporters of the minimum wage assert that it is a matter of ethics and social justice that helps reduce exploitation and ensures workers can afford what are considered to be basic necessities.
That's a gray area. From wiki also.Does not improve the situation of those in poverty. "Will have only negative effects on the distribution of economic justice. Minimum-wage legislation, by its very nature, benefits some at the expense of the least experienced, least productive, and poorest workers."
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Originally posted by Eddie Lee:
In the US we have some politicians that are always promising to raise the minimum wage. Once the masses realize that they can vote themselves more money. It's all over!
money politics is everywhere, no less singapore. so, don't even start....
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
That's a gray area. From wiki also.Does not improve the situation of those in poverty. "Will have only negative effects on the distribution of economic justice. Minimum-wage legislation, by its very nature, benefits some at the expense of the least experienced, least productive, and poorest workers."
Some facts (from US):
States that raised their minimum wages above the decade-long $5.15 federal level had better employment and small business trends than the other states. Studies by the Fiscal Policy Institute and others show that in states with minimum wages above $5.15, the number of small businesses and the number of small business employees grew more than the other states -- contrary to what critics predicted. Likewise, after the last federal minimum wage increases in 1996 and 1997, the nation experienced lower unemployment, low inflation, robust growth and declining poverty rates.
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Originally posted by googoomuck:
Some facts:
States that raised their minimum wages above the decade-long $5.15 federal level had better employment and small business trends than the other states. Studies by the Fiscal Policy Institute and others show that in states with minimum wages above $5.15, the number of small businesses and the number of small business employees grew more than the other states -- contrary to what critics predicted. Likewise, after the last federal minimum wage increases in 1996 and 1997, the nation experienced lower unemployment, low inflation, robust growth and declining poverty rates.
And what happened after that?1996-1997 were good years for the states.
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
And what happened after that?1996-1997 were good years for the states.
It's from a recent article, year 2007.
http://www.businessforafairminimumwage.org/node/53
Business Owners From Every State Say Minimum Wage Raise Strengthens Economy
Restaurants, Retailers, Manufacturers, Healthcare Providers, Construction Companies, Hotels, Farms, Investment Firms and other Businesses Applaud Higher Minimum Wage
For Immediate Release July 26, 2007
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Originally posted by eagle:
I have been saying this recently in the forum, just in a different form... Many people spend over their means, and the only thing they do to salvage is to ask for a pay raise, and nothing else. Don't get the raise, then blame the company and the government.
you missed the point.
when people overspend, there is the other option, cut-back. or they work harder. kpkb is for the losers.
in the context of this thread, there is no unnecessary over-spending or spending on luxuries to speak of. we are addressing the folks who have trouble to subsist in singapore in the first place.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
you missed the point.
when people overspend, there is the other option, cut-back. or they work harder. kpkb is for the losers.
in the context of this thread, there is no unnecessary over-spending or spending on luxuries to speak of. we are addressing the folks who have trouble to subsist in singapore in the first place.
true too
then again, I'm talking about some who kpkb here and yet do nothing.
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Originally posted by eagle:
true too
then again, I'm talking about some who kpkb here and yet do nothing.
which there will be lots here in singapore...
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Originally posted by walesa:
You'd get much more than that if your half-baked policy could be implemented in any tangible form, if the benchmarks adopted by this regime is anything to go by.Why not ?
Havn't try alrady say cannot.. .
This kind of defeatist attitude... how to survive in the global economy ?
Why shouldn't the middle income group be protected from wage depression too ?
Let say you set the minimum wage at $5/hr.
Say, the middle income group's range has always been $15/hr-$20/hr. Will a $5 minimum wage has any effect on this group ? ZILCH !
And there you have , another middle income squeeze.
With a multi-tierd system.. it protects minimum wage across the board, with some exemptions ofcors !
Like I said, this idea is new.. but it doesn't means it is not feasible.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
you missed the point.
when people overspend, there is the other option, cut-back. or they work harder. kpkb is for the losers.
in the context of this thread, there is no unnecessary over-spending or spending on luxuries to speak of. we are addressing the folks who have trouble to subsist in singapore in the first place.
To me, minimum wage should never be the way to go around it, because it will ultimately lead to job shortage.This is also the chief reason why the PAP will never implement such a thing either.
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
To me, minimum wage should never be the way to go around it, because it will ultimately lead to job shortage.This is also the chief reason why the PAP will never implement such a thing either.
Yes, you are obviously not a Singaporean.
Go get yourself a job in the sweat shop.
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instead of minimum wage, I rather the PAP dig out a bit from the surplus and give larger welfare packages, maybe just food and book (for kids) vouchers, to the more needy ones.
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Originally posted by eagle:
true too
then again, I'm talking about some who kpkb here and yet do nothing.
Yah lah.. why not you donate all your income to help the people here ?
You also talk so much only. What have you contributed to the society already ?
People want to kpkb cannot ah ? At least they are working adults and are paying taxes with their OWN income.. You leh ? You're still spending your parents hard earned money.
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Originally posted by eagle:
instead of minimum wage, I rather the PAP dig out a bit from the surplus and give larger welfare packages, maybe just food and book (for kids) vouchers, to the more needy ones.
So those poor people must all become PAP beggars issit ?
Then PAP will become their lao peh liao.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Yah lah.. why not you donate all your income to help the people here ?
You also talk so much only. What have you contributed to the society already ?
People want to kpkb cannot ah ? At least they are working adults and are paying taxes with their OWN income.. You leh ? You're still spending your parents hard earned money.
Let's just say I do donate a dollar a month to the community chest by GIRO. Comparing to a poor student like me, what have you done?
I have also voluntarily taken part in a charity concert 2 years ago.
In addition, I chose my final year project for my uni such that it is beneficial to humans and people in the health area, not just some rocket science on things that do nothing to help people except getting a patent to earn more money, or just for science.
Yes, I do spend some of my parents money right now, but I also have my own monetary income (at my stage, non-taxable though) not from my parents. That is what I spend first. And I have made the mistake of only saving them in the savings account earlier. It was only after a while that my dad realised fixed D gave higher interest rates of 3+% at about 3 years ago. Now quite low, but I have taken upon myself to research on the ways to make better uses of this money.
And I have some other budding ideas that I will be trying out with some friends right after exams. I am also already planning and calculating my probable financial situation in the future. Why bother to compete with these FWs and FTs since so many people here are complaining about them?
So I can say I did not do nothing. Maybe you could share with me what you have done or contributed to the society?
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
So those poor people must all become PAP beggars issit ?
Then PAP will become their lao peh liao.
So you think it is morally wrong for the government to give welfare support to the needy?
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Originally posted by eagle:
Let's just say I do donate a dollar a month to the community chest by GIRO. Comparing to a poor student like me, what have you done?
I have also voluntarily taken part in a charity concert 2 years ago.
In addition, I chose my final year project for my uni such that it is beneficial to humans and people in the health area, not just some rocket science on things that do nothing to help people except getting a patent to earn more money, or just for science.
Yes, I do spend some of my parents money right now, but I also have my own monetary income (at my stage, non-taxable though) not from my parents. That is what I spend first.
And I have some other budding ideas that I will be trying out with some friends right after exams. I am also already planning and calculating my probable financial situation in the future. Why bother to compete with these FWs and FTs since so many people here are complaining about them?
So I can say I did not do nothing. Maybe you could share with me what you have done or contributed to the society?
You want a comparison chart issit ?
I jagar my brother's jamban.. but a blangah has been bothering my brother to let him have my job at half the price I'm getting. So I come here and KPKB lor !
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
You want a comparison chart issit ?
I jagar my brother's jamban.. but a blangah has been bothering my brother to let him have my job at half the price I'm getting. So I come here and KPKB lor !
So this is your version of contributing to society?
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Originally posted by eagle:
So you think it is morally wrong for the government to give welfare support to the needy?
This is not wrong.
But people have dignity and pride. Nobody is willing to readily rely on welfare, onli the lazy and greedy ones do.
The gahmen can do more to help them be sufficient by providing the infrastructure they need to be self sufficient.
I am in the USA , and the old are able to go around freely in their little electric scooter. All the pedestrians are paved and buildings has codes to ensure they are not stuck in any single locations. The public transports are handicap friendly. This inturns makes it easy for families with their strollers to get around..
They have age and illness discrimination laws to protect them.
The poors gets true subsidised assistance.
The public schools are free.
I tell you. There's so much more our gahmen can do.. but are too lazy to use their brain.
Here, if you are poor.. it is because you choose to. Not like in Singapore.. everything also is lan lan. Get the drift ?
And so it becomes an atrocious act when the gahmen pays themselves so much money.. and compare SG to first worlds.. trust me.... we are still FAR FROM IT.
In Singapore.. it is almost impossible to have a second career because of age discrimination.. but in USA.. many people are in their second or third career.
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Originally posted by eagle:
So this is your version of contributing to society?
What. you cannot take a joke ? Here have a nice cuppa ice cold beer.