Originally posted by zaxis:why ask them?
strait time or wan bao will be asking them on m behalf。
many other VWO / NPO are shock when they knew about asking money from volunteer.
let them be another NPO with IPC status get check by authority.
or should their IPC status be suspended.
they should be able to be self sustain, with their collection from house build and sold.
so much acronyms.. why don't you be proactive if you're so concerned? why must wait for ST or Wan Bao?
From some of the replies, can see clearly that some people expect that since the government is voted in (not that these people gave PAP their votes), they should only wait for the government to do all the work. They fail to realise that it is not a question of whether the government should, but whether you are charitable and proactive enough to provide such a service.
I wonder if they lost their job, would they also wait for the government to find them a new job? And question WHY a new job wasn't planned for them, or rather, found for them. Seems very likely so from their logic.
The simple logic is if people don't do for you, you go do it yourself. With a "you wait for me, I wait for you" mentality, nothing will ever get done.
man. so the debate should be "should social welfare be the prerogative of the state ONLY?" ultimately if the govt doesn't seem to be doing her part effectively, so her citizens should stand in the lurch?
myself, i volunteer with several local vwo. not all of them are fully funded by govt, some of them are quasi-NGO so to speak. i.e. to say they receive certain proportion of their funding from govt and the rest from their own revenue sources - donations, fundraising and fees (like this $20). have been for such projects and i've also paid varying amounts ($10 - $20) for shirts, f&b and i also understand certain amount goes to defraying the overheads and for their funding for the year's projects. hence i pay willingly too.
so hyperfocal and qlqq9 - point being you all kpkb so much abt govt say you all contribute income taxes (which i believe will be very "sizeable") and complain govt don't do their part in aiding the needy/poor. pls noe the proper proceedings before you actually criticise (read para 2) and dont lump all the vwo/charity just because of a few infamous e.g. - nkf and youth challenge.
your act by not contributing or helping suffices as it is, even though your value systems are dubiously unsound to start with (who to blame? whoever that nurtured you i reckon?)
by nitpicking and being so anal about every single charitable or volunteering project that comes and then creating every possible linkage to govt inaptness/corrupt charity practices and what not? you not only deflate the confidence of the public to contribute but also deter the efforts for people in the social work line.
i rest my case. there are far too many cynical arm chair critics around.
Originally posted by cuddles:
You own the house. what do you think? if you repaid your housing loan and someone chase you out because they claim it's theirs, then you come here tell us again.Structural and Safety Maintanence is subjective, anything that's inside your house, not hidden in the floor or ceiling is your responsibility.
If the govt does everything, what's left for the public to volunteer? If you don't see volunteering as a kind act, just forget it.
... OWN the "house"? YOu mean these poor elderlies actually OWN the single room apartments?
... I can understand that buying a cheap affordable lightbulb & changing it is considered occupant's jurisdiction...
... but the replacement or renewing of internal electrical wirings is quite another matter. If it is noted that rewiring is necessary due to age of residential block, this should be the jurisdiction of HDB, and not the occupants who by the way, are regarded Poor Elderlies.
... If the government shouldn't be expected to 'do everything', then why on earth are they even controlling how long people should live, work, and keeping all of people's heard earned MONEY? YOu aware of your irony?
... knn, if they want to kaypoh in everybody's lives, farking PAO KA LIAO!!! Don't select what they like to do and what they don't!
... wtf has volunteerism got to do with paying $20?? That's bloody DONATION!!
Originally posted by eagle:Again, by asking these questions, are you to say you will just wait for the government to do it since it doesn't concern you at all?
Again, I will have to remind you that this is a thread on volunteering, nothing on the government at all.
Since you are so bothered having the answers to these questions, let me direct you to this contact.
Mr Tan Chin Siong, Sam – Radin Mas
MP for Tanjong Pagar GRC (Radin Mas)Address
Blk 70A Redhill Close
#07-01 S(151070)
Day/Time
2nd/4th Friday, 8.00 pm
Telephone
6479 4281Address
Blk 21 Telok Blangah Crescent #01-52 S(090021)
Day/Time
1st/3rd/5th Friday, 8.00 pm
Telephone
6270 5346Don't be lazy, go call up and ask. Then post to us what was answered.
... my opinion is easy to understand; they (the govt.) took so much in Taxes and what noughts, raised their friggin salaries up to the moon, they bloody well perform up to that stratosphere!
...don't farking CHALLENGE me!
Originally posted by HyperFocal:... wtf has volunteerism got to do with paying $20?? That's bloody DONATION!!
You seem to have failed to realise that a donation is a voluntary act.
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... my opinion is easy to understand; they (the govt.) took so much in Taxes and what noughts, raised their friggin salaries up to the moon, they bloody well perform up to that stratosphere!...don't farking CHALLENGE me!
Well, you seem easily tempered when reasoned. Are you really that hard-hearted and hot-tempered?
No one is claiming that the government shouldn't do anything. Again, this is not the main point of this thread. And again, if you want to know the answers which none of us here are obliged to give you, go ahead and ring the responsible one who has the obligation to answer to the people.
My main point to you is, if you wait forever for the government to do something, these old folks will continue to suffer. Are you going to allow them to suffer?
Originally posted by eagle:Extra information on recent goverment intervention
Radin Mas launches Project SWITCH to help needy cope with inflation
... this is LAME as hell..
... ok, lets wait 6 months down this year of 2008, then someone please go and conduct a survey asking these people, whether by living in the dark more often, and not watching TV, or using even an electric fan, improved anything financially for them.. ok?
... by then, do note that Electric Tariffs will have shot up a few more times, and inflation will have touched the moon...
... lets see how this Har Brain solution works out...
... it's the same, always their so called solutions and or efforts in helping people are DIY Self-help instructions...
Fark it man... FO
Originally posted by eagle:Well, you seem easily tempered when reasoned. Are you really that hard-hearted and hot-tempered?
No one is claiming that the government shouldn't do anything. Again, this is not the main point of this thread. And again, if you want to know the answers which none of us here are obliged to give you, go ahead and ring the responsible one who has the obligation to answer to the people.
My main point to you is, if you wait forever for the government to do something, these old folks will continue to suffer. Are you going to allow them to suffer?
... my idea of helping, is for a non-proft org to NOT ask for money, but each individual who volunteers to contribute in terms of efforts, procurement, and time... this way everything is truly TRANSPARENT.. no one is left with a shadow of a doubt...
any problem helping those fully funded VWO achieving their KPI? (key performance index).
many VWO having problem achieving their KPI to MCYS!
leave quasi-NGO alone! or shut down!
apply funds channel
http://www.centralsingapore.org.sg/site/mif_new/main.swf
http://www.nvpc.org.sg/pgm/Content/NVPC_F_CMS_SubPage.aspx?PID=2&SID=19
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... this is LAME as hell..... ok, lets wait 6 months down this year of 2008, then someone please go and conduct a survey asking these people, whether by living in the dark more often, and not watching TV, or using even an electric fan, improved anything financially for them.. ok?
... by then, do note that Electric Tariffs will have shot up a few more times, and inflation will have touched the moon...
... lets see how this Har Brain solution works out...
... it's the same, always their so called solutions and or efforts in helping people are DIY Self-help instructions...
Fark it man... FO
I'm not going to bother about whether it is going to work. Fact is, they are indeed doing something, even though it might be wayanging.
Seems that when they don't come out with anything, you charge them with doing nothing. When they attempt to come out with something, you charge them for a lame solution. Either way, you will still attack them.
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... my idea of helping, is for a non-proft org to NOT ask for money, but each individual who volunteers to contribute in terms of efforts, procurement, and time... this way everything is truly TRANSPARENT.. no one is left with a shadow of a doubt...
As I have said, I'm waiting for their email reply on the breakdown of the costs. Feel free to attack them however you like if they cannot reply me by tomorrow night ok? Let's give them some time to prove their transparency.
Originally posted by eagle:I'm not going to bother about whether it is going to work. Fact is, they are indeed doing something, even though it might be wayanging.
Seems that when they don't come out with anything, you charge them with doing nothing. When they attempt to come out with something, you charge them for a lame solution. Either way, you will still attack them.
... sh|t man, if this is what they call HELPING, please just don't do any farking thing...
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... OWN the "house"? YOu mean these poor elderlies actually OWN the single room apartments?... I can understand that buying a cheap affordable lightbulb & changing it is considered occupant's jurisdiction...
... but the replacement or renewing of internal electrical wirings is quite another matter. If it is noted that rewiring is necessary due to age of residential block, this should be the jurisdiction of HDB, and not the occupants who by the way, are regarded Poor Elderlies.
... If the government shouldn't be expected to 'do everything', then why on earth are they even controlling how long people should live, work, and keeping all of people's heard earned MONEY? YOu aware of your irony?
... knn, if they want to kaypoh in everybody's lives, farking PAO KA LIAO!!! Don't select what they like to do and what they don't!
... wtf has volunteerism got to do with paying $20?? That's bloody DONATION!!
I don't know those eldery are living it as a rental flat or what-so-ever, but living in a rental flat is almost like living in a rental room where some owners don't provide you with furniture in the first place. you have to buy your own and put it in a rental place. the same goes to a rental flat, they cover your basics, the rest is you cover.
generally, anything that is in your control, you can be responsible for it. to be honest, the electrical cables covered by the govt is probably up to your main switch box. different house got different kind of lightings or what, govt don't control how you lay your cables in your apartment.
You don't understand how government is supposed to be? even CEOs don't control the number of programs you have in your PC lo. come on, surely the micro stuff you can do it yourself right?
You're apparently losing your cool. Like the others said, the event is free for all, $20 bucks you can join you can don't join. No pressuring factors, no enforcing of any kind. All in the name of volunteering. probably means doing an act ,usually kindness, willingly for the less fortunate.
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... my opinion is easy to understand; they (the govt.) took so much in Taxes and what noughts, raised their friggin salaries up to the moon, they bloody well perform up to that stratosphere!...don't farking CHALLENGE me!
What's with all the anger? it's meant to be a argument. if you can't take the heat, no doubt you only can crit and not contribute anything at all.
cost break down
http://forum.omy.sg/showthread.php?t=2988
but not transparent enough
http://www.omy.sg/news/localnews/200804/20080423_2150.html
Originally posted by cuddles:
I don't know those eldery are living it as a rental flat or what-so-ever, but living in a rental flat is almost like living in a rental room where some owners don't provide you with furniture in the first place. you have to buy your own and put it in a rental place. the same goes to a rental flat, they cover your basics, the rest is you cover.generally, anything that is in your control, you can be responsible for it. to be honest, the electrical cables covered by the govt is probably up to your main switch box. different house got different kind of lightings or what, govt don't control how you lay your cables in your apartment.
You don't understand how government is supposed to be? even CEOs don't control the number of programs you have in your PC lo. come on, surely the micro stuff you can do it yourself right?
You're apparently losing your cool. Like the others said, the event is free for all, $20 bucks you can join you can don't join. No pressuring factors, no enforcing of any kind. All in the name of volunteering. probably means doing an act ,usually kindness, willingly for the less fortunate.
... whatever it is you are selling me about the government and how residential buildings for the poor are upkept, stop trying, I ain't buyin'...
.. as far as I am concerned, Volunteer shouldn't have a FEE tied to it - that's it.
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... this is LAME as hell..... ok, lets wait 6 months down this year of 2008, then someone please go and conduct a survey asking these people, whether by living in the dark more often, and not watching TV, or using even an electric fan, improved anything financially for them.. ok?
... by then, do note that Electric Tariffs will have shot up a few more times, and inflation will have touched the moon...
... lets see how this Har Brain solution works out...
... it's the same, always their so called solutions and or efforts in helping people are DIY Self-help instructions...
Fark it man... FO
not all those elderly or needy can read and write english or chinese or whatever language. they might not have the physical capability to climb up to change a light bulb. they need volunteers time to time. Many are possible to be abandoned by their children, having volunteers around at various time of the year could be something they look forward to. someone to talk to.
this world needs more love and care than just all the aggression.
Originally posted by cuddles:
not all those elderly or needy can read and write english or chinese or whatever language. they might not have the physical capability to climb up to change a light bulb. they need volunteers time to time. Many are possible to be abandoned by their children, having volunteers around at various time of the year could be something they look forward to. someone to talk to.this world needs more love and care than just all the aggression.
... why tell me? Tell those ivory tower talents...
... they shaped the scoiety to what it is today... a No Free Lunch society where everyone is to him or herself..
/..ok?
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... my idea of helping, is for a non-proft org to NOT ask for money, but each individual who volunteers to contribute in terms of efforts, procurement, and time... this way everything is truly TRANSPARENT.. no one is left with a shadow of a doubt...
You sure that's transparent? when people contribute better items, they worry if the volunteers keep it for themselves or not. Some needy asked for higher end items which also defeats the purpose of donation. you also can't justify why this old man gets a better item than the other who gets another with a chipped corner.
You can be sure, some singaporeans treat items donation as an avenue for trashing.
most non-profit org and donation centres in singapore today operate on the wrong premise. the founder/director will find a niche to position the org and then appeal to the masses to donate/contribute. it gets shady the moment it draw up the costs lines; salaries, admin, infrastructure and other costs associated with running the organization. in most likelihood, these are inflated. what's left of it; i.e. grants or donation will then be channeled to the core activity. this type of covet `business' is designed to enrich a few individuals.
the good that comes of out the nkf saga is now these organizations, which otherwise is operating below the radar, is now open to scrutiny as well. youth challenge, etc. are some that got owned.
singaporeans today are still donating in good faith. it is blind faith in some cases but the trust is wearing thin.
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... whatever it is you are selling me about the government and how residential buildings for the poor are upkept, stop trying, I ain't buyin'...
.. as far as I am concerned, Volunteer shouldn't have a FEE tied to it - that's it.
Being such a tunnel-vision individual, you place judgment when you can't deny the facts. Volunteers should not have a Fee to it, as in being calculative in your hearts?
Originally posted by zaxis:cost break down
http://forum.omy.sg/showthread.php?t=2988
but not transparent enough
http://www.omy.sg/news/localnews/200804/20080423_2150.html
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All sounds reasonable. Only have a question on the lunch box on how much food there is to reach 4 bucks.
The main thing I disagree is the treatment of this $20 as a promise to come.
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... why tell me? Tell those ivory tower talents...... they shaped the scoiety to what it is today... a No Free Lunch society where everyone is to him or herself..
/..ok?
I tell you because you're part of the society. you can make a difference. they can play us like chess pieces but you have your mind to continue to love and care for the people who are suffering.
Originally posted by cuddles:
Being such a tunnel-vision individual, you place judgment when you can't deny the facts. Volunteers should not have a Fee to it, as in being calculative in your hearts?
... if my vision is a tunnel, then the goverment must looking at the people they Lord over through a drinking straw!!!