Originally posted by redDUST:most non-profit org and donation centres in singapore today operate on the wrong premise. the founder/director will find a niche to position the org and then appeal to the masses to donate/contribute. it gets shady the moment it draw up the costs lines; salaries, admin, infrastructure and other costs associated with running the organization. in most likelihood, these are inflated. what's left of it; i.e. grants or donation will then be channeled to the core activity. this type of covet `business' is designed to enrich a few individuals.
the good that comes of out the nkf saga is now these organizations, which otherwise is operating below the radar, is now open to scrutiny as well. youth challenge, etc. are some that got owned.
singaporeans today are still donating in good faith. it is blind faith in some cases but the trust is wearing thin.
No doubt it is a blind kind act, or whatever it is. Those running shady "charitable" organisations are those who've lost their conscience. If you really want less of such nonsense, everyone should just take care of their own parents till the time you can't anymore.
Originally posted by cuddles:
You sure that's transparent? when people contribute better items, they worry if the volunteers keep it for themselves or not. Some needy asked for higher end items which also defeats the purpose of donation. you also can't justify why this old man gets a better item than the other who gets another with a chipped corner.You can be sure, some singaporeans treat items donation as an avenue for trashing.
I remember there was a time at some old folks home, when we gave them some wrapped present, there were the old aunties that complained that someone else's present is larger, and then want to change, although the presents were actually about the same... just some display ornaments. Then there were some who waited around and wanted extra.
Then at another charity concert for old folks, some of these old folks actually requested a second helping of food. But overall, could see most are quite happy. However, there are some who still give that gloomy look, because of reasons like not food or their presents not as nice as the other person's.
Originally posted by eagle:10元买汗衫ã€�4元买å�ˆé¤�é¥ç›’和矿泉水ã€�6元花在清æ´�剂ã€�扫帚ã€�油漆ã€�è¿�输费ã€�行政费ã€�è¿�作费ç‰
All sounds reasonable. Only have a question on the lunch box on how much food there is to reach 4 bucks.
The main thing I disagree is the treatment of this $20 as a promise to come.
Lunch box plus water 4 bucks. 2 meat one veg rice probably can take you 3 bucks. 1 bucks for water.
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... if my vision is a tunnel, then the goverment must looking at the people they Lord over through a drinking straw!!!
please, lower your ego. it does no good bashing fellow singaporeans suffering same plight. why don't everyone work for a better tomorrow?
Originally posted by eagle:I remember there was a time at some old folks home, when we gave them some wrapped present, there were the old aunties that complained that someone else's present is larger, and then want to change, although the presents were actually about the same... just some display ornaments. Then there were some who waited around and wanted extra.
Then at another charity concert for old folks, some of these old folks actually requested a second helping of food. But overall, could see most are quite happy. However, there are some who still give that gloomy look, because of reasons like not food or their presents not as nice as the other person's.
everyone is different ma.. some easily contented, appreciative, while some demands to be treated with the best. Items donation is never fair and the last we want to see are conflicts.
Originally posted by cuddles:
please, lower your ego. it does no good bashing fellow singaporeans suffering same plight. why don't everyone work for a better tomorrow?
... surely, my ego can't possibly outsize that of those Ivory Tower Talents which is size of the Universe?
... I agree we should continue to help those in need, and I have been, but what I am saying is the government shouldn't just continue to leave it all up to us as a habit and a norm...
all event is Ad-hoc to the needy elderly.
need not do much, what they need is someone to talk to, speak their dialect, listen to their stories.
drink water with their cup from their home, even if the cup is black or brown at bottom, still accept the plain water drink from them,
december 4 sat & Sun is nightmare to old folk home residents.
every lunch & dinner of this december month sure have christmas lod cake, how will u feel, monday, tues, wed thurs, & fri want also do not have christmas lodge cake.
Originally posted by zaxis:all event is Ad-hoc to the needy elderly.
need not do much, what they need is someone to talk to, speak their dialect, listen to their stories.
drink water with their cup from their home, even if the cup is black or brown at bottom, still accept the plain water drink from them,
december 4 sat & Sun is nightmare to old folk home residents.
every lunch & dinner of this december month sure have christmas lod cake, how will u feel, monday, tues, wed thurs, & fri want also do not have christmas lodge cake.
If their cup is black or brown and you see it, you should jolly well throw it or tell them not to use it anymore, then go down to the nearest neighbourhood store to buy one new one for them.
If my CCA fren can think of it and do it (when we were in sec sch), so can you.
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... surely, my ego can't possibly outsize that of those Ivory Tower Talents which is size of the Universe?
... I agree we should continue to help those in need, and I have been, but what I am saying is the government shouldn't just continue to leave it all up to us as a habit and a norm...
they have their equal pressure and have to display confidence in times of distress. They can't possibily go on air and tell everyone in singapore they admit they lost and not going to fight anymore? Try it yourself, if people were to put huge amounts on you and ask you to help them invest in high risk stocks, would you not be stressed?
There are people who are willing to volunteer regularly, and there are also random people who are looking for such openings. you might not want to volunteer but others might see it as a good time for them to do it.
it's just like jack neo and his jokes, you watch his shows from young and you thought it got boring. what about those who are just growing up? they could be watching the same lame joke for the first time and thought it's damn funny?
if everyday they can drink their "dirty" cup why not you?
it is only stain dirty, not some thing you drink "dirty" into you stomach.
by throwing that cup away is an "not respect" act toward the elderly needy. this kind of "so call volunteer" is not encourage in the volunteer circle.
Originally posted by cuddles:
they have their equal pressure and have to display confidence in times of distress. They can't possibily go on air and tell everyone in singapore they admit they lost and not going to fight anymore? Try it yourself, if people were to put huge amounts on you and ask you to help them invest in high risk stocks, would you not be stressed?There are people who are willing to volunteer regularly, and there are also random people who are looking for such openings. you might not want to volunteer but others might see it as a good time for them to do it.
it's just like jack neo and his jokes, you watch his shows from young and you thought it got boring. what about those who are just growing up? they could be watching the same lame joke for the first time and thought it's damn funny?
... simple, can't take pressure don't DEMAND such salaries...
... volunteer as you and they will, I am not stopping them..
... just don't see eye to eye about that $20...
... I would only either DONATE or VOLUNTEER... but don't expect Volunteer and pay a "FEE".. it's BULL to me..
Originally posted by zaxis:if everyday they can drink their "dirty" cup why not you?
it is only stain dirty, not some thing you drink "dirty" into you stomach.
by throwing that cup away is an "not respect" act toward the elderly needy. this kind of "so call volunteer" is not encourage in the volunteer circle.
Seems like you failed to realise the objective of
"Improve SANITATION of the home"
You are there to improve, not to share the sanitation. How much more naive can you get.
Originally posted by zaxis:all event is Ad-hoc to the needy elderly.
need not do much, what they need is someone to talk to, speak their dialect, listen to their stories.
drink water with their cup from their home, even if the cup is black or brown at bottom, still accept the plain water drink from them,
december 4 sat & Sun is nightmare to old folk home residents.
every lunch & dinner of this december month sure have christmas lod cake, how will u feel, monday, tues, wed thurs, & fri want also do not have christmas lodge cake.
it's true that all they need is just care and concern. But their well being have to be taken care of too, if not how to ensure they'll live on in a happier mood?
The cups already can tell they need a new cup. the fact is they offer you with their sincere thanks. You can accept it and like eagle says, buy a new cup for them.
Given if you go overseas volunteering, they ask you to eat some of their unique tastes which to them is their best that they can offer, would you reject it? Accept everything with your heart. When people are sincere and you know it, why grumble?
I'm sure they won't overload the same elderly with that many log cakes.. surely got a lot of old folks around.
Originally posted by HyperFocal:... simple, can't take pressure don't DEMAND such salaries...
... volunteer as you and they will, I am not stopping them..
... just don't see eye to eye about that $20...
... I would only either DONATE or VOLUNTEER... but don't expect Volunteer and pay a "FEE".. it's BULL to me..
very well, I think you can surely show your support by donating the 20 dollars? :) you don't have to go down volunteer at all or maybe if you want, you can ask if they have anything they need help with? like maybe contacts for getting cheaper lunch sets, or cleaning agents all in bulk?
Originally posted by cuddles:
it's true that all they need is just care and concern. But their well being have to be taken care of too, if not how to ensure they'll live on in a happier mood?The cups already can tell they need a new cup. the fact is they offer you with their sincere thanks. You can accept it and like eagle says, buy a new cup for them.
Given if you go overseas volunteering, they ask you to eat some of their unique tastes which to them is their best that they can offer, would you reject it? Accept everything with your heart. When people are sincere and you know it, why grumble?
I'm sure they won't overload the same elderly with that many log cakes.. surely got a lot of old folks around.
The log cakes will actually kill the old folks. Their digestive systems cannot take the cream and other etc...
Originally posted by zaxis:if everyday they can drink their "dirty" cup why not you?
it is only stain dirty, not some thing you drink "dirty" into you stomach.
by throwing that cup away is an "not respect" act toward the elderly needy. this kind of "so call volunteer" is not encourage in the volunteer circle.
you can drink from their cup and then buy a new one for them. win win situation.
Originally posted by eagle:The log cakes will actually kill the old folks. Their digestive systems cannot take the cream and other etc...
Well, I'm sure they will take note of it one. if they really overload the same batch of elderly with log cakes, sure will make to the news with their passing in a group.
Originally posted by HyperFocal:... simple, can't take pressure don't DEMAND such salaries...
... volunteer as you and they will, I am not stopping them..
... just don't see eye to eye about that $20...
... I would only either DONATE or VOLUNTEER... but don't expect Volunteer and pay a "FEE".. it's BULL to me..
errr do if we say all volunteers are requested to donate $20.. u will volunteer and donate lah
just the word 'fee' u got problem with?
Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:
errr do if we say all volunteers are requested to donate $20.. u will volunteer and donate lah
just the word 'fee' u got problem with?
... actually it does sound a little better logically, but in a voluntary work, the form of donation is thus one's efforts, time, and abilities...
... and if a Donation is hence required on top of Voluntary work, I would wonder where the heck did all the donations the good organization collected in the past, gone too...?
Must understand that HFH is actually Christian organisations
And it is extremely common in Christian churches to raise funds from volunteers when they organise overseas charity trips
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... actually it does sound a little better logically, but in a voluntary work, the form of donation is thus one's efforts, time, and abilities...... and if a Donation is hence required on top of Voluntary work, I would wonder where the heck did all the donations the good organization collected in the past, gone too...?
One can volunteer lots of things - time, money, and even one's life. Some people have volunteered their lives doing something which they feel is worthwhile.
The whole point in volunteering is to contribute what you have to a cause that you find worthwhile.
Don't confuse the spirit of volunteerism with failure in administration. Why is administration so important in charity? Because charity has real long term beneficial effects ONLY if it is consistent, well researched, and far reaching.
Many volunteers only see one side of the coin - they evaluate their entire experience of donating their time/money through their own eyes and often an adhoc volunteer experience. But unless you have been a consistent long term volunteer, few will realise the amount of work that goes into making sure that ad hoc efforts can measure up into long term benefits.
For many people who are involved in administrating charity work - it isn't about those few old folks you visited that weekend, it is about a much larger picture and how to tie up all the loose ends so it isn't simply a sporadic short term joy that you bring to them!
It is similar to the argument of salaried people working in VWOs. The theory being that if these people want to help others, they should do it for free. But if I honestly ask you whether you would give up your current job to take a big pay cut so that you can do something worthwhile FULL TIME - would you? Until you know what it takes - then perhaps you know why it takes more than you expect.
However, in view of the recent cases of mismanagement of charity administration - I think for the individual, what is most important to THEM is this - do you let someone else's failure become your excuse not to do something that is worthwhile? That's simply pointing fingers from your arm chair and sucking your thumb becos you think you are better than the rest.
If you truly believe in contributing to society - be it through time or money - then DO IT. Do it in your own way without the need to depend on someone else to tell you HOW to volunteer. Start your own project and see how you can make a difference.
Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:
One can volunteer lots of things - time, money, and even one's life. Some people have volunteered their lives doing something which they feel is worthwhile.
The whole point in volunteering is to contribute what you have to a cause that you find worthwhile.
Don't confuse the spirit of volunteerism with failure in administration. Why is administration so important in charity? Because charity has real long term beneficial effects ONLY if it is consistent, well researched, and far reaching.
Many volunteers only see one side of the coin - they evaluate their entire experience of donating their time/money through their own eyes and often an adhoc volunteer experience. But unless you have been a consistent long term volunteer, few will realise the amount of work that goes into making sure that ad hoc efforts can measure up into long term benefits.
For many people who are involved in administrating charity work - it isn't about those few old folks you visited that weekend, it is about a much larger picture and how to tie up all the loose ends so it isn't simply a sporadic short term joy that you bring to them!
It is similar to the argument of salaried people working in VWOs. The theory being that if these people want to help others, they should do it for free. But if I honestly ask you whether you would give up your current job to take a big pay cut so that you can do something worthwhile FULL TIME - would you? Until you know what it takes - then perhaps you know why it takes more than you expect.
However, in view of the recent cases of mismanagement of charity administration - I think for the individual, what is most important to THEM is this - do you let someone else's failure become your excuse not to do something that is worthwhile? That's simply pointing fingers from your arm chair and sucking your thumb becos you think you are better than the rest.
If you truly believe in contributing to society - be it through time or money - then DO IT. Do it in your own way without the need to depend on someone else to tell you HOW to volunteer. Start your own project and see how you can make a difference.
... all this elaboration changes little about the HUman Nature, with regards such organizations...
... if and when I donate or contribute, I personally deliver - I don't use the Middle Man method...
.... I want to be sure that $10,000 means exactly $10,000 reaches the needies... not dwindle down to $3000 by the time it reaches them...
Originally posted by HyperFocal:
... all this elaboration changes little about the HUman Nature, with regards such organizations...
... if and when I donate or contribute, I personally deliver - I don't use the Middle Man method...
.... I want to be sure that $10,000 means exactly $10,000 reaches the needies... not dwindle down to $3000 by the time it reaches them...
Before we go further - you mention 'if and when" you donate - so question is Do you give? How much do you give? HOw often do you give?
Tell me also -
how many of the people working in these organizations do you know?
How many do you know personally and how many of those that you observed are not doing a real job?
how many of the organisations in the total number of organisations in Singapore are abusing their funds?
How long have you spent observing, studying the usage of funds and whether these funds have gone into good use?
Don't make unsubstantiated statements based on hearsay then condemn volunteer work for being worthless unless you have done all of the above. Just because SOME volunteer organizations don't do a proper job does not mean volunteer work is useless.
you mention he figure of $10k in your post - do you know how much $10k buys?
$10k buys.. one.. miserable.. power wheelchair.
Do you have any idea how many people are hoping,dreaming for a power wheelchair that will give them independence and freedom and everything we take for granted?
It's only with people trying to put together many $20 from many people that funds can be chalked up to buy items.
BUT having said all that - if you do not stop at all these rhetorics and discussion and lofty ideals - and actually go out and donate that $10k - I can recommend you a worthwhile family to donate that amount to and ensure that the entire amount goes to them. :)
for the HFH, they could only collect $1k a month for this project, of which the expenses have been broken down in the previous page.
How much does anyone think they can profit from that $1k a month to be collected from volunteers from Operation Homeworks?
Originally posted by ShrodingersCat:
Before we go further - you mention 'if and when" you donate - so question is Do you give? How much do you give? HOw often do you give?
Tell me also -
how many of the people working in these organizations do you know?
How many do you know personally and how many of those that you observed are not doing a real job?
how many of the organisations in the total number of organisations in Singapore are abusing their funds?
How long have you spent observing, studying the usage of funds and whether these funds have gone into good use?
Don't make unsubstantiated statements based on hearsay then condemn volunteer work for being worthless unless you have done all of the above. Just because SOME volunteer organizations don't do a proper job does not mean volunteer work is useless.
you mention he figure of $10k in your post - do you know how much $10k buys?
$10k buys.. one.. miserable.. power wheelchair.
Do you have any idea how many people are hoping,dreaming for a power wheelchair that will give them independence and freedom and everything we take for granted?
It's only with people trying to put together many $20 from many people that funds can be chalked up to buy items.
BUT having said all that - if you do not stop at all these rhetorics and discussion and lofty ideals - and actually go out and donate that $10k - I can recommend you a worthwhile family to donate that amount to and ensure that the entire amount goes to them. :)
... what 'statements', what 'lofty ideals'? You asked so I answered.. isn't this a place where everyone airs their opinions as well as ideals?
... and what has my preference in donation has anything to do with how connected YOU are with these organizations? And in what way have I 'condemned' Voluntary work? Which word/s were used to condemn Volunteerism? Or are you just directing attention away from that $20 Fee?