World class ERP solution - which country used it success?
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Hi forum,
I mean, which other country has followed in the footsteps of the pore and proclaimed a big success?
Assuming I support the ERP system to control traffic congestion.
Assuming you are so proud of it. and that you BELIEVED in it as reported.
Tell me, which other country successfully implemented it such that they dare to proclaim to the world that ERP has solved their traffic problem?
Assuming you are a believer of the report that ERP works when it deducts money from your cash card every morning, sometimes 4 dollars a pop, why can you not tell me which other country can proudly say ERP solves traffic congestion for the whole country?
Thailand Bangkok traffic is so problematic, did it implement?
Likewise, USA LA traffic, New York traffic etc.
How come they not smart thinking enough to implement the wonderful ERP system which has deducted at least hundreds of millions from the people over the last decade at least or so?
Assuming it is implemented in Thailand and USA already. Is there still traffic congestion problem? Like it used to be? Tell me.
If cars do not ply one route, can they ply another? Will this cause traffic to other roads? Use the blaine.
And if a smart alek suggests, why not ERP all roads? Then, every road gets a ERP. What happens?
Again, use the blaine.
ERP is so smart that i am not sure why after so many years the world has not yet adopted it and that it is believed by some that it works.
see, poreans are so smart, hundreds of thousands of ft paid starting at 2.5k compete for their livelihood.
so smart.
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Singapore TAX TAX TAX, FINE FINE FINEERP OF CUZ SUCCESS LAH! =D
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Why should I care that stupid people are willing to pay ERP, COE etc just to drive when public transport is readily available and far greener. ERP has been useful in keeping our traffic moving. It is not the best solution, though. I would prefer they limit the COEs, let the COE rise to 10-20k, even 50k...unless you absolutely need a car, you should be forced to take public transport like the Japanese. Price private cars out of the market and that will be good for the environment and keep the roads congestion-free for commercial activities.
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Perhaps it's not the ERP. It's the desire in consumers to want to own cars, and the willingness and financial capability to afford car(s). Now there are too many cars, many are unnecessary.
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London! super congested during peak hours..have special lanes
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Originally posted by mancha:
I know and heard about that before.1. Reducing traffic in 2003 does that mean reducing traffic in 2008?
2. Reducing traffic by brute force of toll , does that mean the traffic is not diverted to other roads?
Any proof?
3. Its a easy to lower the number of cars using 1 road. I guarantee you zero car to 1 car may ply a road if you implement my toilet break unker solution - toll the road use at a price of 3 million per entrance. I putmy head here on the chopping block to guarantee zero to 1 car will use that road. This however, does not guarantee that traffic in other roads will not be congested as a direct result of traffic diversion.
4. In fact, I will not charge any toll for road usage and can still ensure a road is congestion free anytime , anyday. How? Put a big sign 500 meters ahead telling everyone a special camera is operating (like a speed camera) in road cheebee. This cheebee operates the camera 24x7x12. Any car detected travelling on the road will need to have his car wheelclamped for 1 month. No fine required. Like this, guess how many car will ply this road? Will this guarantee no traffic jam on this road cheebee? Does it require any fine$ or toll? But this does not mean other roads will not get congested badly due to traffic diversion.
5. I call road tolling a traffic DIVERSION technique that does not guarantee other roads do not suffer from this traffic diversion or spillover effect.
6. And tolling all roads will not help either. People need to use the car! And when that day happens, it could be a day to celebrate as well. For reasons I dare not say here. Use the blaine to guess why I say this.
7. Why London not toll all its roads and see if everyone takes the bus? ha ha ha. try it. very good one. I welcome anyone to reply to this.
8. There are infinite ways to divert a traffic like the effect of ERP. Without any toll. I promise.
9. Where does every cent of the toll collected go to ? what kind of pocket? How is this spent or utilised? Where is the audit on this? External, internal and international audit. Where? Audit by LTK?
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Originally posted by JJxJJ:
London! super congested during peak hours..have special lanes
I am convinced that the SOLUTION recommended by our greatest and late President , the honorable Mr Ong Teng Cheong , is the right and only solution to really solve the traffic congestion problem.The little dot can easily be networked with many more lines underground and above ground. More LRT is needed in HDB estates.
Travelling by Bus in the pore only makes sense if you are not in a hurry, have lots of time to burn away.
I cannot say ERP does not work , only for fear for my life. I do will say that MRT is the only solution to make people use less car, but 1st more MRT stations need to be built. City planning need to be better. a MRT station needs to be in the heart of each business park or industrial estate. At the centre of each HDB estate, there must be 1 MRT station and LRTs will connect to passenger homes. This is possible theoretically. But will only be realised if the city planners get it right. If they are not competent, this will not work.
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urban planner? got meh??
try taking mrt from changi airport to ponggol
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World class ERP solution - which country used it success?
Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:
I know and heard about that before........
So you already know about the success in other countries.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Why should I care that stupid people are willing to pay ERP, COE etc just to drive when public transport is readily available and far greener. ERP has been useful in keeping our traffic moving. It is not the best solution, though. I would prefer they limit the COEs, let the COE rise to 10-20k, even 50k...unless you absolutely need a car, you should be forced to take public transport like the Japanese. Price private cars out of the market and that will be good for the environment and keep the roads congestion-free for commercial activities.
You shouldtnt compare with Japan when the public transport in Singapore nowhere as good as Japan. While the peak hours are very packed in Tokyo, the trains and buses come at a remarkably accurate schedule and higher frequency. The MRT network is extensive and can reach most places in Tokyo. Until Singapore can reach standards comparable to Hong Kong or Japan, those advocating public transport should do self-reflection. Are they are merely parroting government propaganda? If the govt wants the middle class to switch to public tranport, they should first achieve a similar standard of public transport comparable to Hong Kong or Japan.
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Originally posted by kilua:
You shouldtnt compare with Japan when the public transport in Singapore nowhere as good as Japan. While the peak hours are very packed in Tokyo, the trains and buses come at a remarkably accurate schedule. The MRT network so extensive that it can reach most places in Tokyo. Until Singapore can reach standards comparable to Hong Kong or Japan, those advocating public transport should do self-reflection.Are they are merely parroting government propaganda? If the govt wants to the the middle class to switch to public tranport, they should first achieve a similar standard of public transport comparable to Hong Kong or Japan.
The same goes for Germany
Buses come at remarkably accurate schedules.
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Johor Bahru buses also on time why Germany?
try wait @ City Square
at least 3 different operator run same route.
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Originally posted by zaxis:
Johor Bahru buses also on time why Germany?
try wait @ City Square
at least 3 different operator run same route.
if you are putting the question to me, then you have obviously missed the point
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how u define success?????? money money money for government?? ya... super successful sia!!!!
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Originally posted by mancha:
World class ERP solution - which country used it success?
So you already know about the success in other countries.
ya lor. I knew long ago. But only know of 1 examper leh. Not convincing leh. AND!!! removing congestion in 1 single road, does that mean traffic problem solved? a ROAD system is a net of many roads all interlinked. Like estuaries or your heart where veins and blood vessels connect to the heart for a fixed volume of blood. Contricting blood flow in 1 vein does not mean there is no spillover effect in other veins which will have to endure heavier pressure of blood being pumped thru there. I hope this illustration wakes up even the most apathetic humanoid. If so good, why is there still traffic congestion in other parts of london and the entire UK? As I and many have repeatedly said, to get the same effect, there are infinite ways to achieve the same. How is each cent of the revenue collected spent? Which independent auditor can prove how the spending is done?
See, there is no scientific publication by nobel people to proclaim that tolling is a real SOLUTION to TRAFFIC congestion problem.
I only believe in international scientists of the highest calibre. I believe only the facts, the whole facts and nothing else but the facts.
Even NASA deep blue super computer cannot solve the TRAFFIC CONGESTION. Look at LA. Look at New York. Look at Thailand. Look at anywhere else in the world. Look at the CTE / PIE during peak hours.
But as I said, MRT network can be optimised within a tiny dot to make the use of a car less of a strong neccessity than before. The MRT network should had been more aggressive especially during the last financial depression. During then, infrastructural developments like building MRT lines could have created a lot of jobs. Now, the circle line is still being built after so long and not ready.
The competence of city planners determines jam or no jam during peak hours.
We must know what is the real measure of ERP success. Its should not be measured during off-peak hours. During off-peak hours, in any traffic congested places in the world, the traffic is either very smooth or acceptable. The real measure and the only measure of pass/fail of ERP system is during peak hours.
Even when ERP costs $4 a pop , I have to endure the traffic congestion daily. This proves the only way to use money to control ERP and make it solve traffic congestion in this road only is to make it too expensive to even try using the road. But this defeats the purpose of having a road (created using tax money and maintained by tax payers money) and the ERP will not get revenue. double wammy.
It would be funny to say that one way to have no traffic congestion during peak hours everyday is to block the road and do not allow cars to ply it. People use the car because they cannot stand the waiting time and inefficient routing of buses in general. By this I mean, you want to go from point A to point B. But the bus, to collect more passengers thus fees, will go a big round before it reaches point B. This no one can deny.
And bus is UNreliable as it still depends on road conditions like if there is an accident, the bus can do nothing about it. When there is rain, the bus can do nothing but also crawl with the traffic. Even with bus lanes.
The only solution that will ever come close to solving the traffic congestion problem WILL BE the MRT, but only if the planners get it right. Else incompetency results in people continuing to fork out overwhelming amounts of money to buy a simple car, out of no choice or not wanting to suffer in a bus.
I am a real example of someone who never thought of buying a car, even a picanto which is way overpriced compared to overseas. With that price, can buy a BMW.
Picanto owners are actually BMW owners in Australia. Too bad, they willing to drive picantos. Enjoy enjoy leh. shiok shiok money money. many many. Plus, ERP and road tax and petrol and half yearly maintenance and insurance! and season parking and! parking fees incurred virtually anywhere as long as decide to get out of your car somewhere in the pore in public places.
poreans are great in that they willing to drive a picanto for the price of a BMW of australia and they know many of them will never even own a BMW.
enjoy!
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Originally posted by kilua:
You shouldtnt compare with Japan when the public transport in Singapore nowhere as good as Japan. While the peak hours are very packed in Tokyo, the trains and buses come at a remarkably accurate schedule and higher frequency. The MRT network is extensive and can reach most places in Tokyo. Until Singapore can reach standards comparable to Hong Kong or Japan, those advocating public transport should do self-reflection. Are they are merely parroting government propaganda? If the govt wants the middle class to switch to public tranport, they should first achieve a similar standard of public transport comparable to Hong Kong or Japan.
Haha...have you actually lived and worked in Japan? Do you want our MRT trains to be like those in Japan? Have you seen how japanese workers are packed into the trains during peak hours, sandwiched between people front and back? Why do you think they need train station workers to push passengers in so taht the doors can close and the train can move off on time? Why do you think the japanese porn industry is fixated with dirty old men groping schoolgirls in a crowded train?
Our public transport system is better than that in Tokyo. Our trains can run more frequently provided we raise the train fares to make it financially viable for SMRT. They can be on time if we use station workers to push people into the trains. Statistics show that trains in Tokyo are carrying above capacity whereas we are still below maximum capacity, even during peak hours....I know 'cos I take the train to work. Fact is, Singaporeans do not want to poke their noses up somebody's armpits and have somebody's bottom bumping on their front everytime the train makes a turn. The japanese are more relaxed about that.
The transport problem can be resolved but the government must ignore the whining of young Singaporeans who want to own cars. Raise the the COE to 50k and push up the ERP to $5 per entry (London congestion charge is 8GBP or S$24). Give a significant ERP discount to taxis because they are more efficient and should be considered a form of public transport, although not as efficient as buses and trains. Raise charges at car parks and require car owners to show that they have a private car park before they are allowed to purchase a car. Introduce a pollution tax for certain cars. Make private car ownership unaffordable and channel more funding to public transport. There are too many private vehicles in Singapore.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Haha......
Our public transport system is better than that in Tokyo. ...
Ha ha ha! Have you factored into your argument that the Pore is a tiny dot compared to mighty JitPoon?Compare at your own convenience and advantage ? compare using Proposition and Opposition perspectives. Else your words are not convincing. Can even sound biased.
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Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:
Ha ha ha! Have you factored into your argument that the Pore is a tiny dot compared to mighty JitPoon?Compare at your own convenience and advantage ? compare using Proposition and Opposition perspectives. Else your words are not convincing. Can even sound biased.
The fact that Singapore is a tiny dot makes it even easier to solve our transport problems. There is no reason why you need a private vehicle to travel such short distances.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
The fact that Singapore is a tiny dot makes it even easier to solve our transport problems. There is no reason why you need a private vehicle to travel such short distances.
Precisely Singapore is so small and yet the transport system is way behind the efficiencies of much bigger countries like Germany and Japan.
You can spend a lot of time waiting before your transport arrives. Not so in the countries I mentioned. You can plan your journey all the way, to and fro, to the resolution of 3 to 5 minutes.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
...There is no reason why you need a private vehicle to travel such short distances.
You are saying no need private cars.
If no need private cars, taxis will do is it?
So, people take the bus, mrt and taxi will do. No need car? is that what you saying?
If so, I have this doubt to clarify.
Will this not lead to loss of highly lucrative revenue from ERP and all the costs involved in car ownership?
Will this not mean many car businesses will relocate?
I would be ecstatic if private car is banned. It will be a dream come true.
Why? I cannot tell u for fear for my life.
Thus, from economic perspective, this will not be implemented , imo. Its like cigarettes. Its too lucrative.
So, they just up the price and increase cost of owning car and cost of smoking one's lungs dry using cigarettes. This does not stop people from buying cars and cigarettes.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Precisely Singapore is so small and yet the transport system is way behind the efficiencies of much bigger countries like Germany and Japan.
You can spend a lot of time waiting before your transport arrives. Not so in the countries I mentioned. You can plan your journey all the way, to and fro, to the resolution of 3 to 5 minutes.
The bus service is the worse among all public transports. sad to say to its a fact to me.
And yes, Europe is truely 1st world. Their minstres not paid highest and their lands are huge and roads very very long and yet their minstres did an excellent job. Their transport system is 1st world and world number 1. People only can dream of copying.
Considering the little size of the tiny dot, the roads are like so so sooooooo soooooooo short. That is why I also am unsatisfied with the current status. The left ball seems not balanced with the right bollah. A pain in the airs.
Wow, if european country is as tiny as the pore, I am sure their people no need own cars anymore. They are too good with transport system. I am just sad that their minstrs not asking for more pay. They should. hats off to them who serve their people for less but deliver quality of the world's highest standard.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Haha......Raise the the COE to 50k and push up the ERP to $5 per entry (London congestion charge is 8GBP or S$24). ...
You forget to tell innocent people that Londoners are paid in pounds. Their salaries also higher even after netting the tax and cost of living.So, $5 is like $2 , something like that. Hey , if so, do you think $4 CTE gantry is more expensive for locals who are paid at asian standard influenced by the influx, compared to londoners ? And is UK traffic jam free having implemented ERP-like toll system?
If I say ERP increase traffic in other roads, would you disagree? If so prove your point.
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Here are some facts for our Mr mushroom
Source : http://gohongkong.about.com/od/travelplanner/f/theMTR.htm
The MTR is Hong Kong's subway system, or if you're European the Metro. It is universally referred to as the MTR, subway in Hong Kong connotes the British meaning of an underground passageway.
The MTR has won a slew of awards and is one of the best subway systems in the world. It covers anywhere you might want to go in Kowloon and on Hong Kong Island and is well integrated with the KCR for further transport to the New Territories.
The system has 51 stations and six lines (not including the one-stop Disneyland resort line). Trains on all lines start between 06:00am - 06:10am and stop again between 00:50am - 02:00am. During this period trains run at a gobsmacking frequency, with trains generally every two - three minutes, less later at night. (This is despite lower fares than Singapore)
Train stations are universally safe and spotlessly clean, however they don't contain toilets.
Compare their extensive MRT network with ours
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The states media tried to cover up the fact Hong Kong MRT system is better than ours with this article.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/cna/20080408/tap-340087-231650b.html
SINGAPORE: Transport operator SMRT has clinched the "Best Passenger Experience" award at the inaugural Metro Awards 2008 in Copenhagen, Denmark.
Metro Awards is part of MetroRail, an annual conference of the urban rail industry worldwide which met from 1 to 3 April this year.
Other finalists of the "Best Passenger Experience" award included Copenhagen Metro, MTR Corporation Limited (Hong Kong) and The Warsaw Metro Ltd. ( This gives the impression they beat Hong Kong to this award)
They were judged on factors such as value for money, efficiency and reliability, as well as cleanliness and security.
SMRT said the international award for service excellence came shortly after it won the "Most Customer—Friendly Transport" award, presented by Singapore’s Land Transport Authority.
When in fact Hong Kong won the best MRT in Asia Pacific and they conveniently omitted it. You can count on the State Media to blow small good news to dispropotionate size!
Its like winning "Miss Personality" and then claiming to have won Miss Universe...:
Congratulations to the winners of the Metro Awards 2008!
Best Metro
WINNER: Copenhagen Metro
Best Metro Asia Pacific
WINNER: MTR Corporation Limited (Hong Kong)
Best Metro Project MENA
WINNER: RTA Dubai
Best Metro Europe
WINNER: Copenhagen Metro
Best Passenger Experience
WINNER: SMRT Trains Limited (Singapore)
Best New Station
WINNER: The Warsaw Metro Ltd. for Wilson Square Station
Most Innovative Financing Project
WINNER: Metro Milano
Best Maintenance Programme
WINNER: MTA New York City Transit
Best Driver
WINNER: Robert Jaryczewski, The Warsaw Metro Ltd.