World class ERP solution - which country used it success?
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Lastly regarding MRT in Japan
Our Mr mushroom prefers Singapore less extensive MRT network and likes to make multiple changes in buses and MRT to reach his destination.
He loves our tranport system because he can spend longer time on it e.g 1hr 15 min from Petir to City.
Japan although more squeezy during peaks hours, can reach the same destination in 25 mins. Tokyo even has rapid trains that skip MRT stations.
But Mr mushroom loves our less extensive MRT network and long waiting time for feeder bus that he doesnt mind spending lots more time travelling for a tiny weeny more standing space during peak hours.
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Originally posted by kilua:
Lastly regarding MRT in Japan
Our Mr mushroom prefers Singapore less extensive MRT network and likes to make multiple changes in buses and MRT to reach his destination.
He loves our tranport system because he can spend longer time on it e.g 1hr 15 min from Petir to City.
Japan although more squeezy during peaks hours, can reach the same destination in 25 mins. Tokyo even has rapid trains that skip MRT stations.
But Mr mushroom loves our less extensive MRT network and long waiting time for feeder bus that he doesnt mind spending lots more time travelling for a tiny weeny more standing space during peak hours.
LOL.... Same for every single major city in Germany.
Picture for Munich U-Bahn and S-Bahn Network
In addition, you can plan your trip to the very few minutes all the way
http://www.bahn.de/p/view/index.shtmlMaybe like what Mr Brown said, OM finds peace and spirituality in our transport system.
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Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:
ya lor. I knew long ago. But only know of 1 examper leh. Not convincing leh. AND!!! removing congestion in 1 single road, does that mean traffic problem solved? a ROAD system is a net of many roads all interlinked. Like estuaries or your heart where veins and blood vessels connect to the heart for a fixed volume of blood. Contricting blood flow in 1 vein does not mean there is no spillover effect in other veins which will have to endure heavier pressure of blood being pumped thru there. I hope this illustration wakes up even the most apathetic humanoid. If so good, why is there still traffic congestion in other parts of london and the entire UK? As I and many have repeatedly said, to get the same effect, there are infinite ways to achieve the same. How is each cent of the revenue collected spent? Which independent auditor can prove how the spending is done?
See, there is no scientific publication by nobel people to proclaim that tolling is a real SOLUTION to TRAFFIC congestion problem.
I only believe in international scientists of the highest calibre. I believe only the facts, the whole facts and nothing else but the facts.
Even NASA deep blue super computer cannot solve the TRAFFIC CONGESTION. Look at LA. Look at New York. Look at Thailand. Look at anywhere else in the world. Look at the CTE / PIE during peak hours.
But as I said, MRT network can be optimised within a tiny dot to make the use of a car less of a strong neccessity than before. The MRT network should had been more aggressive especially during the last financial depression. During then, infrastructural developments like building MRT lines could have created a lot of jobs. Now, the circle line is still being built after so long and not ready.
The competence of city planners determines jam or no jam during peak hours.
We must know what is the real measure of ERP success. Its should not be measured during off-peak hours. During off-peak hours, in any traffic congested places in the world, the traffic is either very smooth or acceptable. The real measure and the only measure of pass/fail of ERP system is during peak hours.
Even when ERP costs $4 a pop , I have to endure the traffic congestion daily. This proves the only way to use money to control ERP and make it solve traffic congestion in this road only is to make it too expensive to even try using the road. But this defeats the purpose of having a road (created using tax money and maintained by tax payers money) and the ERP will not get revenue. double wammy.
It would be funny to say that one way to have no traffic congestion during peak hours everyday is to block the road and do not allow cars to ply it. People use the car because they cannot stand the waiting time and inefficient routing of buses in general. By this I mean, you want to go from point A to point B. But the bus, to collect more passengers thus fees, will go a big round before it reaches point B. This no one can deny.
And bus is UNreliable as it still depends on road conditions like if there is an accident, the bus can do nothing about it. When there is rain, the bus can do nothing but also crawl with the traffic. Even with bus lanes.
The only solution that will ever come close to solving the traffic congestion problem WILL BE the MRT, but only if the planners get it right. Else incompetency results in people continuing to fork out overwhelming amounts of money to buy a simple car, out of no choice or not wanting to suffer in a bus.
I am a real example of someone who never thought of buying a car, even a picanto which is way overpriced compared to overseas. With that price, can buy a BMW.
Picanto owners are actually BMW owners in Australia. Too bad, they willing to drive picantos. Enjoy enjoy leh. shiok shiok money money. many many. Plus, ERP and road tax and petrol and half yearly maintenance and insurance! and season parking and! parking fees incurred virtually anywhere as long as decide to get out of your car somewhere in the pore in public places.
poreans are great in that they willing to drive a picanto for the price of a BMW of australia and they know many of them will never even own a BMW.
enjoy!
london explicitly implemented a erp type traffic management program to great success. todate, it is estimated that traffic congestion has eased well over 30%. i heard it from the bbc last week when it ran a commentary on traffic management. when ex-mayor ken livingstone pushed this thru', many thought that it will fail, or that drivers will be up in arms. it hasn't proven to be so. in fact, many are thankful for it. well, if london `copy' this, it is a pretty big deal, isn't it? there is also another reason why other countries are not lapping it up. it has a political consequence. unless your country has a watertight and stranglehold on political system like singapore, you do not want to risk it on something like this.
on buses, have you use the iris system? i am not sure if you live in singapore in the first place. it is a gps type program that tells you to the minute's accuracy when the bus is arriving at your bus-stop. i have tried it a few times now and it has yet to fail me. i drive to work now. it's a 40mins drive. when i switched to the mrt/bus system to get me to my office in the last 2 weeks, using the iris, i am 10-15mins later than when i drive. so much so that i am considering selling my car since my job is deskbound and i travel overseas often. on week-end, i can just rent a car or call a cab if i need to move around. my monthly car maintainence overall now is about $2k/mth. i reckon i can save $15-16k per year just by way of public transport. of course not all are like me. some do need the car for sales call, etc. others need to keep up with the joneses. for me, i don't care much about the latter. i am more interested in having a fatter wallet.
finally, who's to judge if someone wants to buy a picanto for a price of a bmw in australia? to each his own.
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Originally posted by kilua:
Lastly regarding MRT in Japan
Our Mr mushroom prefers Singapore less extensive MRT network and likes to make multiple changes in buses and MRT to reach his destination.
He loves our tranport system because he can spend longer time on it e.g 1hr 15 min from Petir to City.
Japan although more squeezy during peaks hours, can reach the same destination in 25 mins. Tokyo even has rapid trains that skip MRT stations.
But Mr mushroom loves our less extensive MRT network and long waiting time for feeder bus that he doesnt mind spending lots more time travelling for a tiny weeny more standing space during peak hours.
what's singapore's subway history compared to japan's? it is not apple to apple comparison. singapore is also extending it's network over time and i think it has every reason to be as extensive and efficient as the world's best.
for the express trains that `skips station', it applies to only train routes that heads towards suburbs or out-of-town destinations like yokohama or saitama. in singapore, it doesn't make sense to skip for now since the travel pattern of the commuters are not well-defined and the passenger volume presently may not sustain such a service.
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Can anyone believe that OM is also an authority - or even in any position to pass simple comment - about transport systems in Singapore and Japan, when he is residing in the UK for the better part of his life ?
What does he know about the population distribution pattern and the public transport system in Japan, to compare the Japanese System with the Singapore system - as if though one can put the Japanese blueprint over the Singapore blueprint and pass judgment ?
While the Singapore ERP has been able to regulate the traffic flow along main arterial roads, it has resulted in chaotic traffic conditions along the secondary arterial road network that are adjacent to the main ones.
This has resulted in the ''mushrooming'' of ERP gantries even on the secondary arterial roads, with some even placed at the main 'gateway' into the Heartland Towns - where the unfortunate Toa Payoh residents have to pay ERP charges to get in and out of their estate.
The expressway designs are already outdated over the time it take from design to budget plans to completion of construction, and the Land Transport Authority has to play a constant game of catch up to the traffic conditions - that are made worst by the fluctuating number of COE made available at different months over the entire expressway desing to implementation period..
Many expatriates will find the Singapore ERP system to be an ingenious form of traffic management, and they are full of praise compared to the local Singaporean attitude.
This large disparity in private views towards the ERP are due to the fact that the expatriate are paid 5 to 10 times more then any Singaporean wage earner, who can afford to own any car; and the expatriate will surely not complain the daily ERP charges that probably will also be absorbed by their Companies.
With the Singapore public transport system not as extensive as those found in other countries, the privately owned car remains a necessity in Singapore.
Just looking at the current half-baked extension of the East-West MRT line that extend from Jalan Boon Lay to a location near to the Singapore Discovery Centre - a new distance of about 6 kilometers, it remains out of reach to the large number of workers that commute further west to the Tuas area.
With Raymond Lim at the helm of the Transport Ministry, we are seeing another flip from the past flops made during the pervious Minister Yeo Cheow Tong era - with the Public Bus system now allowed to run along the same route as the MRT.
The operation of the ERP, COE, MRT, SMRT, SBS, and most taxi companies all have Government interests, the Singapore model will surely meet with failure when implemented piece meal into another political environment, where the electorate is not as subservient as Singaporeans.
Is the Singapore land transport system efficiently administered to move Singaporeans, or has it become another multi-layered revenue collecting instrument for this money grabbing Government ?
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on buses, have you use the iris system? i am not sure if you live in singapore in the first place. it is a gps type program that tells you to the minute's accuracy when the bus is arriving at your bus-stop. i have tried it a few times now and it has yet to fail me.
Still, it is a far cry from the website I put for Germany because iris only gives you the timing for the next 2 buses.
what's singapore's subway history compared to japan's? it is not apple to apple comparison. singapore is also extending it's network over time and i think it has every reason to be as extensive and efficient as the world's best.
for the express trains that `skips station', it applies to only train routes that heads towards suburbs or out-of-town destinations like yokohama or saitama. in singapore, it doesn't make sense to skip for now since the travel pattern of the commuters are not well-defined and the passenger volume presently may not sustain such a service.
I cannot say for Japan, but for Germany, the one I have posted does not include express trains at all.
It is not apple to apple comparison; Singapore is a far cry from Germany's public transport. Yet, the price of the public transport w.r.t. to salary is not any lower than that of Germany's. In fact, the ratio for Singapore might be higher than Germany's suppose you utilise their bahncard 50. You really have to experience the public transport system there to know how backward Singapore's is. But this is not applicable to their sub-urban areas. Then again, because of Singapore's vibrancy, we should make comparisons with their major cities.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
london explicitly implemented a erp type traffic management program to great success. todate, it is estimated that traffic congestion has eased well over 30%. i heard it from the bbc last week when it ran a commentary on traffic management. when ex-mayor ken livingstone pushed this thru', many thought that it will fail, or that drivers will be up in arms. it hasn't proven to be so. in fact, many are thankful for it. well, if london `copy' this, it is a pretty big deal, isn't it? there is also another reason why other countries are not lapping it up. it has a political consequence. unless your country has a watertight and stranglehold on political system like singapore, you do not want to risk it on something like this.
on buses, have you use the iris system? i am not sure if you live in singapore in the first place. it is a gps type program that tells you to the minute's accuracy when the bus is arriving at your bus-stop. i have tried it a few times now and it has yet to fail me. i drive to work now. it's a 40mins drive. when i switched to the mrt/bus system to get me to my office in the last 2 weeks, using the iris, i am 10-15mins later than when i drive. so much so that i am considering selling my car since my job is deskbound and i travel overseas often. on week-end, i can just rent a car or call a cab if i need to move around. my monthly car maintainence overall now is about $2k/mth. i reckon i can save $15-16k per year just by way of public transport. of course not all are like me. some do need the car for sales call, etc. others need to keep up with the joneses. for me, i don't care much about the latter. i am more interested in having a fatter wallet.
finally, who's to judge if someone wants to buy a picanto for a price of a bmw in australia? to each his own.
Why not you entertain us by telling us :
1. How successful is the ERP here having been implemented for around 10 years? Obviously, you are all full of praise for it and I wonder if you live in the PORE? Since you drive, can I assume you work in the afternoon shift or night shift? At those times, the traffic congestion is zero. This is not the way to measure ERP success.
2. Who will not wish to own a BMW if he is a Picanto'er? Are you driving one? No offen leh. just merely speaking the facts. In australia, a BMW is really cheap compared to here. Same standard BMW. manufactured the same quality. Germany standard. I can understand you are trying your best to make the grape taste less sour. Very Ah Q leh. You good leh!
3. Tell me loud and clear , keep hearing to much thrash affecting hearing, when 1 main road full of many cars is constricted in traffic flow, what happens to the remaining roads? loud and clear. London situation may be very different. I will find out more facts and then come back to you. Anyways no other country has done that even though its implemented for so long long looooooonnnnnngggg already right?
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Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:
Why not you entertain us by telling us :
1. How successful is the ERP here having been implemented for around 10 years? Obviously, you are all full of praise for it and I wonder if you live in the PORE? Since you drive, can I assume you work in the afternoon shift or night shift? At those times, the traffic congestion is zero. This is not the way to measure ERP success.
2. Who will not wish to own a BMW if he is a Picanto'er? Are you driving one? No offen leh. just merely speaking the facts. In australia, a BMW is really cheap compared to here. Same standard BMW. manufactured the same quality. Germany standard. I can understand you are trying your best to make the grape taste less sour. Very Ah Q leh. You good leh!
3. Tell me loud and clear , keep hearing to much thrash affecting hearing, when 1 main road full of many cars is constricted in traffic flow, what happens to the remaining roads? loud and clear. London situation may be very different. I will find out more facts and then come back to you. Anyways no other country has done that even though its implemented for so long long looooooonnnnnngggg already right?
you are the entertainer here.
1. show me where have i lavish praise to the ERP? btw, i am luckier. i work a day job in singapore.
2. sorry to burst your bubble, my last car was a BMW. I traded it for a higher cc car. what is `cheep' in your language? A$60k cheap when you can buy a toyota for A$15k? ask any aussie if a bmw is `cheep' in their country? pls compare in perspective. why don't you compare why darlie toothpaste in china cost S$1.50 only? y
3.come back with more facts then we talk.
like i said, you are the entertainer here. just like crap,....less meat.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
my last car was a BMW. I traded it for a higher cc car.
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Originally posted by eagle:
do i sense a tinge of sarcasm here?
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Originally posted by redDUST:
do i sense a tinge of sarcasm here?
If you want to think so, when my motive was merely praising you.
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Originally posted by eagle:
If you want to think so, when my motive was merely praising you.
i will take your word for it.
for all the german technology and roadholding the beemer gave, i have decided and gone swede.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
for the express trains that `skips station', it applies to only train routes that heads towards suburbs or out-of-town destinations like yokohama or saitama. in singapore, it doesn't make sense to skip for now since the travel pattern of the commuters are not well-defined and the passenger volume presently may not sustain such a service.
The Chuo Main line has a express line, Chū� Kaisoku-sen that runs through the heart of the City within Tokyo.
The truth is even if its profitable, our govt won built the line unless they can yield lucrative profits.
Otherwise they would have taken so long to build new lines... They should benchmark themselves against Hong Kong, and if they cant reach it by certain time, they should forfeit their salaries and hire Hong Kongers to run Singapores transport system.
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Originally posted by kilua:
The Chuo Main line has a Chū� Kaisoku-sen that runs through the heart of the City within Tokyo.
The truth is even if its profitable, our govt won built the line unless they can yield lucrative profits.
Otherwise they would have taken so long to build new lines... They should benchmark themselves against Hong Kong, and if they cant reach it by certain time, they should forfeit their salaries and hire Hong Kongers to run Singapores transport system.
kilua, i am not doubting your words. i have been to japan many times and taken the trains on numerous occasions. what i am trying to say is tokyo has a population of 11+m, and probably another 2-3m commute into/out of tokyo for work. my colleague is a case in point. he lives in yokohama and the office is in tokaido, near shinjuku. for him, the express train is heaven sent because of the geographical size, for a train to stop at every station, his mood will be a pissed one everytime he steps into the office. and because shinjuku is a train hub much like tokyo station, many will descend there and catch another connecting train to their final destination.
singapore hasn't that collective mass nor geography spread to justify an `express train'. and mind you, those are not subways, those are train services.
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digress a bit:
I'm planning to go japan for a tour one day... Which city should I visit?
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Originally posted by eagle:
digress a bit:
I'm planning to go japan for a tour one day... Which city should I visit?
Sapporo for Snow festivalNagano for Ski ( Reachable from Tokyo in 5-6 hours by bus, 2 hours by Shin Kan Sen)
and of course Tokyo itself =)
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Originally posted by eagle:
digress a bit:
I'm planning to go japan for a tour one day... Which city should I visit?
pm'd you -
Originally posted by kilua:
Sapporo for Snow festivalNagano for Ski ( Reachable from Tokyo in 5-6 hours by bus, 2 hours by Shin Kan Sen)
and of course Tokyo itself =)
Originally posted by redDUST:
pm'd youThanks!
Arigatou gozaimashita!
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Originally posted by redDUST:
kilua, i am not doubting your words. i have been to japan many times and taken the trains on numerous occasions. what i am trying to say is tokyo has a population of 11+m, and probably another 2-3m commute into/out of tokyo for work. my colleague is a case in point. he lives in yokohama and the office is in tokaido, near shinjuku. for him, the express train is heaven sent because of the geographical size, for a train to stop at every station, his mood will be a pissed one everytime he steps into the office. and because shinjuku is a train hub much like tokyo station, many will descend there and catch another connecting train to their final destination.
singapore hasn't that collective mass nor geography spread to justify an `express train'. and mind you, those are not subways, those are train services.
Well, i just want to dispel the regular propaganda the States times is feeding us. The same things mentioned by our Mr mushroom was repeated several times in the state controlled media. With Internet, these things just cannot be hidden anymore. Best Passenger Experience award..hahahaha.... The States Times is good at highlighting the misfortunes of our neighbouring countries, but when they are better than us, they conveniently omit it. I wonder if that is causing the complacency MM is talking about. Why does our leaders want to live in a "make believe world" of good news and praises?
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Originally posted by kilua:
Well, i just want to dispel the regular propaganda the States times is feeding us. The same things mentioned by our Mr mushroom was repeated several times in the state controlled media. With Internet, these things just cannot be hidden anymore. Best Passenger Experience award..hahahaha.... The States Times is good at highlighting the misfortunes of our neighbouring countries, but when they are better than us, they conveniently omit it. I wonder if that is causing the complacency MM is talking about. Why does our leaders want to live in a "make believe world" of good news and praises?
well, i don't disagree with you on the `experience' bit. i have posted my grouses on the singapore trains forum here so i will spare you the agony of my gripes (again). the BPE award is definitely kelong, imo.