Sg males lagging behind in education standards due to Ns?
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Originally posted by eagle:
If you really think so, you are seriously a born loser. Yeah, just continue to put the blame on external events, and do nothing about it. Just continue to complain and rant. PAP likes people like you.
I can't comprehend how blaming NS for delaying your life is stating the truth. You are not delayed unless you want it to be.
Even without NS, I would still aim for the age of 28. What I have meant is that NS will not delay my target; I will still be able to earn enough by 28. Even for 26 years old, I have a friend who is planning to get engaged immediately after graduating (25 yrs) and getting married by 26. It is what you plan and want; not because some sissy excuse that NS delayed you. And no, he's not a scholar or anything. It's because he planned way ahead of people, myself included.
I have even a friend, my age, graduating this semster too, who has already $100k networth. His story is definitely amazing.
Fact is, there are many people who have done it; NS did not delay them in their goals and dreams. If they can do it, so can you. But if you think you are delayed, then you are definitely delayed.
oh dear, the name calling degenerated into born loser now? You are delayed regardless of whether you admit it/ try to convince yourself otherwise. PAP? erm coherence please?
You can do what you want to make up for it. You can work extra hard to make up for the lost time, but the fact remains that if that time was not wasted, and you did the same amount of work, you would have gone further.
For example, lets assume you aim to make 100k by 28. not too hard a goal to be honest. So lets say no ns or a girl. you have after uni about 5 or years to work to achieve that. If you had ns, you only have 3 years. Assume pay = 20k a year, so meet 100k aim for girl/no ns.
But only 60k with ns, ok lets assume 61 or 62 k with ns. Now you can say okz I won't let my time in ns be wasted, I'll go invest in shares, etc during the 2 years. So + 40k from investments.
Doesn't change the fact that the girl/no ns couldn't have also invested in share for that 2 years and gained even more? => 100k + 40k. I'm not even adding in the compounding effect of having the capital to invest earlier.
No amount of mindset reconfiguration changes that. Of course you could try to convince/delude yourself otherwise. You are delayed regardless of whether you think you are.
On the other hand laying blame on external events/people does not mean not trying. Make no mistake about that. Should try to make the best that you can of the situation. But denial of it will not help.
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I'm talking about being delayed in goals and dreams, not money. -.-
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Originally posted by redDUST:
i don't get it.
what did you lag in? do one not learn and experience new things, even in ns? new friendship form, new horizon emerged, virginity lost (for the late starter), getting new perspective in life, etc.
is your life in a standstill?
i dun understan how you can lag behind in life just because your course of life takes an expected, different turn.
........and it has nothing to do with my 2.5 years lag.
If life is infinite, then yes the 2 years are well spent.
But this is not the case. Our lives are finite, our youth are finite, for some people the 20's is the prime of their lives, some of the world changing scientific papers were published by authors in their 20's.Let's say my dream is to be a scientist, do you think I would have access to scientific journals in camp? For most ppl, we have to stay in camp every week, your contact with the professional community is defiantly reduced. Is this not a lag?
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Originally posted by hloc:
The problem is this.....
If NS was 'Shorten' to 18mths for Uni grads..... are Non Uni grads suppose to contuine to do 24mths of NS
If All S'porean Males are to do only 18mths of NS..... wouldn't the Next group of NS boys (10years from now) be demanding a reduce to 12mths... and the next to 6mths..... then to 3mths..... So when will it be enough
If technology and the education of young Singaporeans can allow us to shorten the duration of ns, in the future or now, I dun see why not...
It does not mean serving longer makes you more soldier or more loyal to singapore.
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Originally posted by whiskers:
If technology and the education of young Singaporeans can allow us to shorten the duration of ns, in the future or now, I dun see why not...
It does not mean serving longer makes you more soldier or more loyal to singapore.
I agree 'IF' technology does allow us to shorten NS, there should be no problem.....
But are we talking about technology now
Or are we using 'Going To Uni' as the reason to why we should shorten or even stop doing NS..... Thats the problem. -
just wait for one more damn important guy's son to be 18years old lo.. everybody happy..
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Ya i think it`s a waste time also LOL
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"most people's lives are predictable - by the time they die, they will spend a GREAT MAJORITY part of lives working (travelling to work, working in office, returning from work) for the big BOSS. And if you include the time you need to sleep? That is how you will spend your life in a predictable way"
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Originally posted by whiskers:
If life is infinite, then yes the 2 years are well spent.
But this is not the case. Our lives are finite, our youth are finite, for some people the 20's is the prime of their lives, some of the world changing scientific papers were published by authors in their 20's.Let's say my dream is to be a scientist, do you think I would have access to scientific journals in camp? For most ppl, we have to stay in camp every week, your contact with the professional community is defiantly reduced. Is this not a lag?
let's get real. in your living years, you have more than enough time and opportunity to make a difference. Age and opportunity cost of time has nothing to do with it. nelson mandela is a case in point, you make the most of your time in a meaningful way you deem fit.
i am sure your life is not so one dimensional even if you want to be a scientist. there will be other life skills you pick up. i feel sorry for you when you say that you get into a vacuum just because you are in ns. ideally, you make the best use of your time in whatever situation. i would also argue that ns is character building in its own cynical ways.
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Dun think so - if you have the capability then you always will have it, NS or not.
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Originally posted by eagle:
I'm talking about being delayed in goals and dreams, not money. -.-
same thing. Unless you set unrealistic or low goals. taking the previous example. with ns maybe you can set 100k by 28. without ns you can set 150k. actually even dreams too like say atheletics, the 2 years means 2 more years for you to get better and get more results (like dreams of completing maybe 21 grandslams?) before you peak and go down. (yes I know it's more flexible nowadays, but still it's not that flexible and only applies to national level athletes if i'm not mistaken.) -
if you really can make it, the two years make not much difference. it's the same as if you repeat education in secondary, all your friends move up and you think you'll lag by 1 year.
but when you get to elsewhere you smooth sailing while some people might repeat semester in poly, etc..
then some people might find a wrong job, while you luckily found a good job head start.. now how do you justify?
sure it does eat every man's time, but it makes little difference to whether you succeed or not in life.
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AIRBORNE RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
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Originally posted by cuddles:
if you really can make it, the two years make not much difference.
In this case, Why not make it 3 years. not much diff waht.
if you really really really can make it, the3 years make not much difference.
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Originally posted by hisoka:
same thing. Unless you set unrealistic or low goals. taking the previous example. with ns maybe you can set 100k by 28. without ns you can set 150k. actually even dreams too like say atheletics, the 2 years means 2 more years for you to get better and get more results (like dreams of completing maybe 21 grandslams?) before you peak and go down. (yes I know it's more flexible nowadays, but still it's not that flexible and only applies to national level athletes if i'm not mistaken.)No it is not. It just means whatever you do, you will require a different strategy.
Eg: A goal to earn 100k in 3 years (if you are delayed by ns) entails a different strategy to earn 100k in 5 years
Sure, you can say without NS, you could still earn it 2 years earlier. But my point, which you have till now not understood, is that if you want to reach a goal by a certain age, NS will not delay you. Back to your earlier example, you mentioned without NS, instead of marriage at 28, one would have been able to marry at 26. The fact here is, with or without NS, I will still set the target age at 28 years old. In that sense, NS does not delay me. It is only necessary to adopt a different set of strategies and mindset to reach that goal.
with ns maybe you can set 100k by 28. without ns you can set 150k.
With NS, I can still set 150k by 28. Again, you might say one could do it at 26. My point to you again is reaching a goal by a certain age. You are not delayed until you want to be so in this sense.
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Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:
In this case, Why not make it 3 years. not much diff waht.
if you really really really can make it, the3 years make not much difference.
it was 3 yrs in the first place.. people complain, they review, become 2 half, then now become 2yrs. some people suggesting abolish the whole thing.
I think 2 yrs is just nice. for whatever to learn in order to protect.
seriously, its 2 yrs or 3 yrs is also beyond control. they set we follow. they reduce we benefit.
the idea still stands, if you can make it, the 2 or 3 yrs doesn't make much difference given guys are all doing it. females justify the idea of maternity that can occur anytime during their careers if they are not careful.
its the same as if you are so good with convincing people of those ideals you spkers corner people have, you probably would have done it effortlessly and within a few valid posts. no need spend the entire time saying " LKY go go go" "die die die" etc..
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Originally posted by whiskers:
If life is infinite, then yes the 2 years are well spent.
But this is not the case. Our lives are finite, our youth are finite, for some people the 20's is the prime of their lives, some of the world changing scientific papers were published by authors in their 20's.
I agree. you don't live forever. and it has been proven that men live much shorter lives than females. basically, you don't have that much of prime, healthy time to spend rotting about in camps.Don't tell me that the entire 2 yrs of ur ns, is well spent.
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
I agree. you don't live forever. and it has been proven that men live much shorter lives than females. basically, you don't have that much of prime, healthy time to spend rotting about in camps.Don't tell me that the entire 2 yrs of ur ns, is well spent.
Definitely, everyone can use the 2 good years doing something better. But NS is a responsibility! Some things can't be justify with just economics or selfish thinking of doing productive things for yourself.National Service is like someone said before, is like doing cleaning in your house. even though it's a chore, but it is necessary.
You save this 2 yrs, if you die early and young, what's the difference? If you spent that 2 yrs and die early and young, maybe we should say sad for you? Please, as long as someone dear to us dies young or old, we'll be equally sad.
It's not eternal life that we seek, but the meaning of life that matters.
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
I agree. you don't live forever. and it has been proven that men live much shorter lives than females. basically, you don't have that much of prime, healthy time to spend rotting about in camps.Don't tell me that the entire 2 yrs of ur ns, is well spent.
whether it is well spent depends on vocation and on person (as in the rotting in camp part). Supposed you are a RP, I would think you wouldn't learn much at all...
For me, in army, other than the normal learning of teamwork, jungle survival, medic skills, motorbike riding course, taiji-ing of work skills, most important to me,
1) I made many lasting friendships, some of whom helped (and in turn I helped back) in the schoolworks in uni, and I know I can depend on them (having been in the same bunk for 2 years) when needed
2) I found my passion for exercising and fitness (from being a lazy slob in JC)
Of course, I won't deny there are many unnecessary things that were done, e.g. guard duty, flag duty.
And it also depends on how you utilise your time. For example, what do most people do during nights out or weekends during NS? For me, I taught tuition. During 4 of the nights out, I had also gone to BBDC when I was at Mandai camp for their compulsory theory lessons which a trainee have to complete. And during free time, I read books for leisure that I wouldn't have much time to complete in the hectic uni/working life.
What did another of my friends do? He started reading up on investment books. There were one or two more friends who did some of these more constructive things. But others? Eat, sleep, play, during the excessive 'rest' time.
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Originally posted by eagle:
whether it is well spent depends on vocation and on person (as in the rotting in camp part). Supposed you are a RP, I would think you wouldn't learn much at all...
For me, in army, other than the normal learning of teamwork, jungle survival, medic skills, motorbike riding course, taiji-ing of work skills, most important to me,
1) I made many lasting friendships, some of whom helped (and in turn I helped back) in the schoolworks in uni, and I know I can depend on them (having been in the same bunk for 2 years) when needed
2) I found my passion for exercising and fitness (from being a lazy slob in JC)
Of course, I won't deny there are many unnecessary things that were done, e.g. guard duty, flag duty.
And it also depends on how you utilise your time. For example, what do most people do during nights out or weekends during NS? For me, I taught tuition. During 4 of the nights out, I had also gone to BBDC when I was at Mandai camp for their compulsory theory lessons which a trainee have to complete. And during free time, I read books for leisure that I wouldn't have much time to complete in the hectic uni/working life.
What did another of my friends do? He started reading up on investment books. There were one or two more friends who did some of these more constructive things. But others? Eat, sleep, play, during the excessive 'rest' time.
yeah I agree.. some of my bunk mates played stocks and read many investment books in camp. While I'm the slack ones.. play nia.. :D
I also agree that I adopted the culture of exercising. It is the vocation and training that you got that shaped your thinking about NS. honestly.
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national service do waste time.protect your mother land my arse..this land dont belong to my mother in the 1st place.for more info about ns.go youtube and search for evil bunny.
ns is for everyone.ns is a crime.
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Originally posted by eagle:
No it is not. It just means whatever you do, you will require a different strategy.
Eg: A goal to earn 100k in 3 years (if you are delayed by ns) entails a different strategy to earn 100k in 5 years
Sure, you can say without NS, you could still earn it 2 years earlier. But my point, which you have till now not understood, is that if you want to reach a goal by a certain age, NS will not delay you. Back to your earlier example, you mentioned without NS, instead of marriage at 28, one would have been able to marry at 26. The fact here is, with or without NS, I will still set the target age at 28 years old. In that sense, NS does not delay me. It is only necessary to adopt a different set of strategies and mindset to reach that goal.
With NS, I can still set 150k by 28. Again, you might say one could do it at 26. My point to you again is reaching a goal by a certain age. You are not delayed until you want to be so in this sense.
It is you who do not understand that your point is moot. well unless you set goals without thought to possibility of accomplishing it or you just set easy goals. if you can change strategy to accomplish a goal faster, it merely means your previous strategy is lousy and you should have used the other strategy regardless of the 2 years or not. Or if you can still achieve a certain goal by a date without changing strategy then yoour target must have been pretty low. Not so sure about the married part although i would say being in the army for 2 years does reduce chances of meeting the right girl and thus possibly not letting you get married by 26 because of a lack of partner.(lets not talk about desperate measures like foreign bride or settling for anyone...) But your targets should have been different depending on whether you had to waste that 2 years or not and thus you have the delay. My point to you is that you are delayed in that sense whether you want it or not. And lastly just meeting some targets set does not mean that there's no delay. -
since Ghurka is so loyal, why dont SAF employ Ghurkas? Afterall they are more fitter,
we can have an unlimited supply of Ghurkas and there will never be a birth population problem
Why waste the valuable time of economically contributing singaporeans?
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Originally posted by hisoka:
It is you who do not understand that your point is moot. well unless you set goals without thought to possibility of accomplishing it or you just set easy goals. if you can change strategy to accomplish a goal faster, it merely means your previous strategy is lousy and you should have used the other strategy regardless of the 2 years or not. Or if you can still achieve a certain goal by a date without changing strategy then yoour target must have been pretty low. Not so sure about the married part although i would say being in the army for 2 years does reduce chances of meeting the right girl and thus possibly not letting you get married by 26 because of a lack of partner.(lets not talk about desperate measures like foreign bride or settling for anyone...) But your targets should have been different depending on whether you had to waste that 2 years or not and thus you have the delay. My point to you is that you are delayed in that sense whether you want it or not. And lastly just meeting some targets set does not mean that there's no delay.being in the army for 2 years does reduce chances of meeting the right girl and thus possibly not letting you get married by 26 because of a lack of partner.
I got attached during army. Anything more?
It is obvious you do not understand what is meant by the term goal by a certain age.
Lastly, you contradicted yourself by saying
just meeting some targets set does not mean that there's no delay.
If you have met your target by your targetted time, there's no delay.
Definition of delay
1) to put off to a later time; defer; postpone
2) to impede the process or progress of; retard; hinder
3) to put off action; linger; loiter
4) the act of delaying; procrastination; loitering
5) an instance of being delayed
6) the period or amount of time during which something is delayed -
YOU are lagging, WE are not.
