Lees ready to b X-exaimned.''Dr Chee,what r u waiting for?''
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We have to look at the root of the problem, before we comment on anything, in this case, it is the NKF issue,and Chee is trying to link this to the govt. The truth speaks for itself. There is unlevel playing field. I have said if you dont dig out anything, then you will be safe.But Chee could not keep quiet on this. So that is the defamation suit. Why there is no defamation on Low TK, think of it ?
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The problem is they covered up this NKF saga for too long, and when it is exposed by Chee, the despot could not wait to charge Chee by defamation suit. This is an obvious excuse, it is not side track. pls bear in mind, a lot of things go unnoticed if nobody dare to bring up . I salute Dr Chee. He has the courage to confront the despot. It is not side track. I am entitled to have my own opinion. Look at the declassified statemant by the British, then you understand more, pls read widely.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Was your question misinterpreted, or did you mean something more then the simple questions asked - which you has now surfaced in a more ''baiting manner" ?
Did you read what CSJ had written that resulted in MM and PM feeling that their reputation had been affected ?
Much has been linked even by participants in several forums - not least by our very venerable robbertteh in this Speakers' Corner.
If I should claim that my reputation has been affected by your writing on a general topic of public interest - { such as your accusing participants in this thread as being ''sheep and wankers'' for their die-hard cynicism towards the MEW } - and my over-sensitivity or guilt will demand that I see your acts as inflicting damage to my reputation - can you defend yourself in a litigation proceeding that I will take out on you for the many different ways that I will infer your writings to have affected me ?
MM's conduct and attitude towards his political challengers in the 1997 election - Francis Seow, Tang Liang Hong and J.B.Jeyaratnam - is already indicative of the type of politics that he is prepared to sink to.
Ironically, as the God Father adapt in such hard politics he will accuse a young puppy in CSJ to practice gangster politics.
His remarkable comments in rebuttal to Dr Catherine Lim's writing is even more revealing of the hoodlum dressed in white.
Could he be a sheep in wolf's clothing, or a wolf in white sheep wool ?
Either way he strive to be No 1 - as a Sheep or as a Wolf - you got to be careful who you call next as ''sheep''
Atobe, I am not sure why you are side tracking to other issues which are not material to this case and our discussion.What I am asking you is if CSJ has what it takes to defend himself against the charges press against him, not if LKY is Mr. Nice man in politices.
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Originally posted by t_a_s:
The problem is they covered up this NKF saga for too long, and when it is exposed by Chee, the despot could not wait to charge Chee by defamation suit. This is an obvious excuse, it is not side track. pls bear in mind, a lot of things go unnoticed if nobody dare to bring up . I salute Dr Chee. He has the courage to confront the despot. It is not side track. I am entitled to have my own opinion. Look at the declassified statemant by the British, then you understand more, pls read widely.
1) They cover up NKF saga? Who are they? PM and MM Lee?
2) I thought SPH is the one that expose what is happending at NKF? Which Chee are you talking about?
You can salute anybody you want, but that is not going to make any difference to how the judge and majority of Singaporeans going to view this case.
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Originally posted by Gutturosa:
Atobe, I am not sure why you are side tracking to other issues which are not material to this case and our discussion.What I am asking you is if CSJ has what it takes to defend himself against the charges press against him, not if LKY is Mr. Nice man in politices.
You did clarify your postion, and I did answer you by giving you an analogy of what CSJ is facing - as described in my last post - and I did ask you 'how would you defend yourself under similar circumstances ?"
Did I side-track ?
I had actually continued to elaborate the possible reasons for MM doing what he continue to do as it is in his nature.
Are you unable to discern what was written, or have you something in mind in posing the question ?
Shall I repeat my last reply on Page 1 of this thread - and is as follows ?
Was your question misinterpreted, or did you mean something more then the simple questions asked - which you has now surfaced in a more ''baiting manner" ?
Did you read what CSJ had written that resulted in MM and PM feeling that their reputation had been affected ?
Much has been linked even by participants in several forums - not least by our very venerable robbertteh in this Speakers' Corner.
If I should claim that my reputation has been affected by your writing on a general topic of public interest - { such as your accusing participants in this thread as being ''sheep and wankers'' for their die-hard cynicism towards the MEW } - and my over-sensitivity or guilt will demand that I see your acts as inflicting damage to my reputation - can you defend yourself in a litigation proceeding that I will take out on you for the many different ways that I will infer your writings to have affected me ?
MM's conduct and attitude towards his political challengers in the 1997 election - Francis Seow, Tang Liang Hong and J.B.Jeyaratnam - is already indicative of the type of politics that he is prepared to sink to.
Ironically, as the God Father adapt in such hard politics he will accuse a young puppy in CSJ to practice gangster politics.
His remarkable comments in rebuttal to Dr Catherine Lim's writing is even more revealing of the hoodlum dressed in white.
Could he be a sheep in wolf's clothing, or a wolf in white sheep wool ?
Either way he strive to be No 1 - as a Sheep or as a Wolf - you got to be careful who you call next as ''sheep''.
"Supposing Catherine Lim was writing about me and not the prime minister...She would not dare, right? Because my posture, my response has been such that nobody doubts that if you take me on, I will put on knuckle-dusters and catch you in a cul de sac... Anybody who decides to take me on needs to put on knuckle dusters. If you think you can hurt me more than I can hurt you, try. There is no other way you can govern a Chinese society." - SM Lee Kuan Yew, The Man and His Ideas, 1997
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Well well well! The cross exam saga is over.
Who is the loser and who is the winner?You are the Judge!
What happened in today hearing----27.05.2008 Tue.
In the beginning,Singh cited few cases to request
court to stop irrelevant questions put to Lees.
After heaty agruments,at 10.58 am Judge ruled that LHL
to be cross exam till 12.00 noon today and LKY to be cross
examed for 2 hours!!After LHL was released
from witness stand at 12.16 noon,Singh asked for LKY to be
cross exam immediately for LKY had to attend important
matter.CSC and CSJ objected,citing CSC need taking foods
and medications.Judge adjoured for 10 mins.
.
LKY arrived at 12.05 noon.Rave started questioned LKY at 1.00
till 1.26 pm,followed by CSJ till 2.56pm!!2 hours is over!
CSC demanded to question LKY.Judge allowed 10 mins.
Few overall impressions on Chees
Well They are late in the mornings of Mon and Tue and Monday afternoon.
Today,Tue 27 05.2008,LHL sat on the witness box from
9.58 am and ready to be cross examined.He looks like a
obiedent primary school student waiting exam starting.
But our learned CSJ late again,arriving at 10.05 am!!
No need worry.Court take note and some 50 public and press
witnessed all this.
Small matter?u say lah.
2.Body language
While cross exam,Chees sometimes folded his arms in front
of chest,or one hand putting on waist.In this morning,
he pointed figure at Singh.Well,today evening Sin Ming etc
already put this in head lines.
3.CSC fared better than CSJ
CSJ talked most of the times.I find CSC more calm
and more powerful.
4.Waste of precious times or bigger tactics
For few years,Chees have challenged Lees to be cross examined
in court.Yesterday and today,they have the golden opportunity
to ask relevant questions over the case.But they used the time
to make political speech,turning court into political arena.
Well.They and their supporters think that the questions they wanted to
ask are relevant.However,Judge disqualified more than
95 % of their questions to 2 Lees.After they knew there was
limited time,they should ask short and sweet questions,and
relevant questions!!
So many topics mentioned
5.Chees mentioned NKF,HDB's secrecy on materials cost and profits,
management of GIC,Francis Seow,ISD,long term ISD detainees
recent declassified UK documents,recent master piece of
One Nation Under Lee video etc
ie all the materials copy from SDP web site
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lionnoisy, with your half-baked efforts in protecting both MM LKY and PM LHL, they should both employ you as their PR Executive to protect their obvious half-baked effort to disguise their influence over the Court.
You could have redeemed yourself by posting more accurate information for all to read, instead of posting your half-baked comments as if though you could have a seat reserve for you at the front row of the public gallery - when there were more then 50 dialect speaking uncles and aunties crowding everyone out of the gallery as reported in the SDP website.
Why will dialect speaking uncles and aunties appear in this trial to take up space that so many others would have wanted so badly to be inside the Court to report on this event - seen to be the "Trial of the Decade" ?
If you must report - at least do it professionally, and do a complete job instead of posting half-baked report that was supposed to be continued, but which you had conveniently left out the continuing details, substituting with your nonsensical diatribes at the Chee siblings and the SDP.
Lee Kuan Yew barges into courtroom
Monday, 26 May 2008 Singapore Democrats
Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew barged into the courtroom this afternoon when Mr Lee Hsien Loong was being cross-examined by the defence in a defamation case brought on by the Lees against SDP and its leaders.
Before the senior Lee made his unannounced appearance together with at least seven bodyguards, the door of the courtroom was flung open by one of his securities who had quickly rushed in front of Justice Belinda Ang who was hearing the case at Court 4B.
Judge Ang and all the others present were clearly startled as to what was going on before they spotted a hunched Mr Lee Kuan Yew slowly made his way into the courtroom to take his seat next to SDP chairman Mr Gandhi Ambalam. But quickly, an alert lawyer of the plaintiff realized the unintended proximity and showed Mr Lee to another chair further away.While all this drama was taking place, Mr Lee Hsien Loong was in the witness stand, making everyone wonder whether there is any truth to the maxim that "everyone before the law is equal" or some more equal than others.
After the dust has settled, so to speak, and some semblance and sanity returned, Dr Chee Soon Juan objected to the way the Lee Sr had made his entry. Dr Chee repeated asked Judge Ang to ask Mr Singh to introduce those who had barged in and to state what their roles were in relation to the hearing.
This is normal procedure. The defendants had to introduce Mr Gandhi Ambalam and Mr Chia Ti Lik, and to ask the Judge permission to let them sit in to help take notes. Despite the repeated appeals by Dr Chee to Judge Ang to ask the plaintffs counsel to do the same with Mr Lee's group, she did not.
Dr Chee pointed out that the Court should be blind to the status of the parties. For Mr Lee to enter the courtroom with his entourage in such a haughty manner was completely unacceptable.
There was also PAP MP, Mr Hri Kumar, was role was just to sit beside Mr Lee Kuan Yew. He was certainly not connected to the case and he did not seek permission from the Judge to be present.
Dr Chee also noted, besides the seven bodyguards, there were at least another ten unidentified persons who were already seated. Who these people were, and in what capacity they were present, asked Dr Chee. Getting no response from the bench, Dr Chee moved on to question the right of Mr Lee Kuan Yew to sit in while the cross-examination of Mr Lee Hsien Loong was taking place.
Dr Chee said this was because the affidavits that the two plaintiffs had submitted in support of their claims for damages were almost identical and that the questions that he would be posing to Lee Jr would be similar in nature.
However, the judge overruled the strenuous objections raised by Dr Chee and asked the SDP Counsel, Mr Ravi, to continue his cross-examination of Mr Lee Hsien Loong that was interrupted by Lee Sr's entry.
On several occasions, Mr Davinder Singh, counsel for the plaintiffs, rose to object the line of Mr Ravi's questioning of Mr Lee and reminded the defence counsel that he was a court official like him.
This prompted Dr Chee to remind the Judge that Mr Singh had the habit of throwing in subtle threats like this to Mr Ravi throughout the hearing in chambers, and now he was at it again in open court.
Later, Dr Chee, after establishing the fact that the two Lees had embarked on the lawsuit in their personal capacity, asked if Mr Lee had taken leave of absence from his duty as prime minister and whether there was anyone acting for him while he was appearing in court. Mr Davinder Singh immediately objected. However, when pushed, Mr Lee admitted that he did not take leave.Dr Chee clarified that it was because Mr Lee had stated in his sworn affidavit, that he was a man with “unflinching fidelity to integrity” and as such he expected answers from Mr Lee and not interruptions from Mr Singh.
Almost throughout the entire cross-examination, Mr Singh kept “jumping up like a jackrabbit”, noted Dr Chee.
Dr Chee then read out a newspaper report of an earlier defamation suit brought against him in September 2004 by Mr Lee Kuan Yew and Mr Goh Chok Tong in which Mr Singh had noted that Dr Chee had been running down Singapore and the plaintiffs for years. Dr Chee had been carping about the lack of democracy.
Mr Singh, as defence counsel for both Mr Lee and Mr Goh, then had said: “In October 2001, he challenged the plaintiffs to answer his questions. He said the public had a right to know. He now has the opportunity of a lifetime—a chance to cross-examine the plaintiffs and extract answers to his pressing questions. What does he do? He flees.”
Turning to Judge Ang, Dr Chee said now was the chance for him to cross-examine the plaintiff and to elicit answers to those pressing questions that Mr Singh had accused Dr Chee of avoiding in the past. Dr Chee said now that he had been given this chance, Mr Singh kept preventing him from posing such questions of great public interest to Mr Lee.
The cross-examination of Mr Lee Hsien Loong continues tomorrow.http://yoursdp.org/component/content/article/1-singapore/479-lee-kuan-yew-barges-into-courtroom
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Reuters - 35 minutes ago
Singapore politicians hurl insults in court
SINGAPORE, May 27 - Singapore politicians hurled insults and clashed over transparency in the city-state in a court case on Tuesday.
Former leader Lee Kuan Yew, 84, and his son, the current Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, took the stand as part of a hearing to determine defamation damages against the opposition Singapore Democratic Party and its leader Chee Soon Juan, who is not a member of a parliament dominated by Lee's party.
"He is near psychopath," Lee Kuan Yew said of Chee Soon Juan.
"I don't think even Solomon would be able to mediate between a psychopath and sane rational people," he said, referring to the biblical King Solomon.
"I don't hate you, I feel sorry for you, I think you cut a pitiable figure," said Chee of Lee Kuan Yew.
Lee took out an award from Transparency International Malaysia on the stand to prove a point about his character.
Most of Chee's questions to Lee Hsien Loong, which ranged from the secrecy of Singapore's sovereign wealth fund investments to ministerial pay that is amongst the world's highest, were objected to by Lee's lawyer on the grounds of irrelevance and upheld by the judge.
Lee Kuan Yew is credited with policies that have been critical to making Singapore one of the region's most prosperous countries, but has been criticised by human rights groups for his use of lawsuits against political opponents and the media.
Singapore's political landscape has been dominated by one party -- the People's Action Party -- since its independence in 1965. Its past two prime ministers still retain loosely defined cabinet posts, namely "minister mentor" and "senior minister".
The three-day hearing ends on Wednesday.
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jiayou! Dr Chee!
-
Originally posted by QX179R:
Singapore's political landscape has been dominated by one party -- the People's Action Party -- since its independence in 1965. Its past two prime ministers still retain loosely defined cabinet posts, namely "minister mentor" and "senior minister".
-
The propaganda is at its best again...
-
"He is near psychopath," Lee Kuan Yew said of Chee Soon Juan.
"I don't think even Solomon would be able to mediate between a psychopath and sane rational people," he said, referring to the biblical King Solomon.
84 years old already still act like 4 year old.
Shame shame shame Lee Kuan Yew.
You are a fucking bastard in my eye, Lee Kuan Yew.
-
Opposition leader calls hearing on premier's lawsuit 'pathetic'
Singapore - Singapore's most vocal opposition leader accused the High Court on Tuesday of making his cross-examination of Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong "meaningless" by upholding objections to almost every question asked.
Lee and Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew pressed for a second day for aggravated damages against Singapore Democratic Party (SDP) chief Chee Soon Juan, his sister and executive member Chee Siok Chin, and the party itself.
Justice Belinda Ang granted the request of Lee's lawyer Davider Singh to limit the time for cross-examination of the prime minister, which started on Monday.
She also agreed to set two hours for the cross-examination of independence leader and Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew, wrapping up the proceedings on Tuesday instead of Wednesday.
Lee took the witness stand for more than an hour. Singh objected to one question after another from Chee, who was representing himself, continually on the grounds of irrelevance. The objections were upheld.
"You have chopped off our legs and lopped off our arms," Chee Siok Chin said to Ang. "Do you want our heads next?"
The Lees won the defamation suit against the SDP and the Chees in 2006 stemming from the SDP newsletter, The New Democrat, published before the general election that year. It contained articles on a scandal at the National Kidney Foundation and drew parallels between how the charity and government were run.
The father and son sued over remarks which alleged they were corrupt and covered up wrongdoings at the foundation.
Not only were questions touching on the scandal ruled irrelevent, but others on Government Investment Corporation funds, Lee's salary and his awareness of the plights of the elderly poor and other conditions in the affluent city-state.
"Lee has said he takes great pride in his integrity," Chee told Ang in explaining a question. "It must be relevant."
"Move on," she responded.
Lee did acknowledge that he had said that Chee harbored hatred toward him. When Chee asked how Lee knew him, the prime minister said "not as a personal friend" but from his record as a public figure.
"I do not hate you," said Chee. "You are not worth the time and the effort."
The case marks the first time any leader of the ruling People's Action Party has been cross-examined by a political opponent in open court.
The party holds all but two seats in the 84-member parliament and has dominated the political scene since independence from Malaysia in 1965.
If the SDP is unable to pay up, the 28-year-old party faces the prospect of dissolution.
Chee Soon Juan was declared bankrupt following a defamation award of 500,000 Singapore dollars (373,000 US dollars) in February 2006 to Lee Kuan Yew and another former prime minister, Goh Chok Tong. He is barred from running for parliament until 2011.
His sister was declared bankrupt for failing to pay costs related to a protest last year.
Activists and critics including Amnesty International say Singapore's leaders use defamation lawsuits to cripple opposition politicians.
The government maintains such legal action is necessary to safeguard the leaders' reputations.http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/208124
Shameless fucking bastard.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
lionnoisy, with your half-baked efforts in protecting both MM LKY and PM LHL, they should both employ you as their PR Executive to protect their obvious half-baked effort to disguise their influence over the Court.
You could have redeemed yourself by posting more accurate information for all to read, instead of posting your half-baked comments as if though you could have a seat reserve for you at the front row of the public gallery - when there were more then 50 dialect speaking uncles and aunties crowding everyone out of the gallery as reported in the SDP website.
Why will dialect speaking uncles and aunties appear in this trial to take up space that so many others would have wanted so badly to be inside the Court to report on this event - seen to be the "Trial of the Decade" ?
If you must report - at least do it professionally, and do a complete job instead of posting half-baked report that was supposed to be continued, but which you had conveniently left out the continuing details, substituting with your nonsensical diatribes at the Chee siblings and the SDP.
Some of ''dialect speaking uncles and aunties'' can understand English.
Do u need a English test before we allow them go inside court ?
Yesterday,monday,there are organised crowd from Teck Ghee
area to support their own MP LHL.What is wrong with this?
Do u think NTUC or People Association cant mobilise many RC
,CCC or CC to Q up early morning to fill up every single seats
in public gallery?Every RC just send 1 man is more than enough.
Do u think Lees need this kind of hit under the belt tactcis?
Do u think all seats occupied by PAP etc will help Lees?
There is no organised crowd today lah...
2.I am sorry CSJ cried in court that SDP members could not
come in because they came late to Q up!!
The public were more eager than SDP to enter court room.
Today one SDP member was allowed by Judge sat
behind CSJ to take records.
But i dunt think he took much records with his lap top!!
3.Pl bear with my inability to state facts here.Did i tell u
I was there?
4.I appeal to relevant parties to post transcripts of these 3 days
open hearing on web site.Then we can see true colors of
all parties!
5.ZAOBAO news as reference
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http://www.zaobao.com.sg/sp/sp080527_509_2.shtml
28.05.2008
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Some of ''dialect speaking uncles and aunties'' can understand English.
Do u need a English test before we allow them go inside court ?
Yesterday,monday,there are organised crowd from Teck Ghee
area to support their own MP LHL.What is wrong with this?
Do u think NTUC or People Association cant mobilise many RC
,CCC or CC to Q up early morning to fill up every single seats
in public gallery?Every RC just send 1 man is more than enough.
Do u think Lees need this kind of hit under the belt tactcis?
Do u think all seats occupied by PAP etc will help Lees?
There is no organised crowd today lah...
2.I am sorry CSJ cried in court that SDP members could not
come in because they came late to Q up!!
The public were more eager than SDP to enter court room.
Today one SDP member was allowed by Judge sat
behind CSJ to take records.
But i dunt think he took much records with his lap top!!
3.Pl bear with my inability to state facts here.Did i tell u
I was there?
4.I appeal to relevant parties to post transcripts of these 3 days
open hearing on web site.Then we can see true colors of
all parties!
5.ZAOBAO news as reference
æ�Žæ€»ç�†ï¼šã€€èµ·è¯‰å¾�顺全ç‰äººä¸ºè¡¨æ¸…白
（2008-05-27）
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http://www.zaobao.com.sg/sp/sp080527_509_2.shtml
28.05.2008
Was there a campaign in Teck Ghee to organise the residents to flood the public gallery in the court to support the Lees, or were these uncles and aunties from Tanjong Pagar ?
Surprisingly they did not appear in the previous High Court proceedings that LKY and GCT took against CSJ - as the issues were not as scandalous compared to the issues now which the SDP had drawn parallels between NKF and the Singapore Government.
As matters stand, the lawyer for the plaintiffs had worked hard to strike out almost all of the evidence that the Chee siblings have prepared in their own defense, and with the plaintiff's lawyer practically obstructing the Chee siblings from further verbal cross-examination of MM and PM - is there any need for this trial to even be conducted ?
Is this not another political show trial ?
Incidentally, if you must post a Chinese newsprint - can you have the courtesy to provide a translation for the benefit to those who do not read chinese - especially our fellow Singaporean Indian, Malay and Eurasian Communities ?
You could also show some objectivity by also quoting from non-Partisan news sources - such as foreign reports instead of depending for your purpose only the news reports coming from the Singapore Press Holdings and Singapore Broadcast Media.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
'lionnoisy' were you in court today to witness the proceedngs ?
If you were not in court today, how would you know if CSJ description of LKY's arrival was a lie ?
Do you know that it is very unusual for two plaintiffs to be present in court at the same time - when one is giving evidence under cross-examination and when the other plaintiff has still not been cross-examined in court ?
Even in the Subordinate Court, no one can simply barge in when the court is in session, let alone a body-guard gate crashing and approaching the Judge's bench without permission ?
Did the body guard bow to the bench and ask permission to approach the bench ?
Who is this body-guard to be so arrogant when his civil service grade is lower than the judge ?
Surely this is a clear contempt of court ?
Clearly court proceedings are not followed, if MM LKY is allowed to sit in when PM LHL is giving evidence - as MM has still not been cross-examined by the Attorney for the Defendants, and should not be listening in during LHL statements under cross-examintion - for obvious reasons. .
Is the Law equally applied ?
In the dynastic history of China, when a magistrate is persiding over a case, it's not uncommon for the Empress, Emperor, Princes and Dukes to supervise the magistrate in charge. Just in case, the magistrate makes any judgement that is against the interest of the royal family.It's no surprise that this issue has crop up, afterall aren't we a dynastic empire. We should be happy that we no longer have to keep pigtails and bow on all 4s when greeting our Emperor.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
In the dynastic history of China, when a magistrate is persiding over a case, it's not uncommon for the Empress, Emperor, Princes and Dukes to supervise the magistrate in charge. Just in case, the magistrate makes any judgement that is against the interest of the royal family.It's no surprise that this issue has crop up, afterall aren't we a dynastic empire. We should be happy that we no longer have to keep pigtails and bow on all 4s when greeting our Emperor.
If those Chinese serial movies are of any accuracy - Pao Kung series - the Emperor who had taken a personal interest and sit in during a trial - would at least have the courtesy to be on time, and sit through the trial without hurrying the process of justice.
Unfortunately, the Singapore Emperor was said to be late by almost 90 minutes, and with his entourage of body-guards and escorts, they barged into the Court, just when it was in session - with the PM on already on the stand being cross-examined.
Did the security guard bowed to the Judge's Bench - as a mark of respect to the State Authority - and seek permission before approaching the Bench ?
On such a minor detail, I would not doubt the SDP website in pushing home the point that after barging into the Court, the bodyguard strode up to the Judge's bench and whispered into her ears.
Obviously, the Emperor could not be bothered to bow to the Bench, as he is the highest authority in the Land - higher then the President who is elected - while the Emperor is already the Sun, whose mandate is from Heaven.
Is it any wonder that the Rules of the Court has been dispensed to accomodate the Emperor ?
In my recent appearance as a Plaintiff in the Subordinate Court, my co-plaintiff had to exclude his presence from the Court - when I was being cross-examined by the Attorney for the Defendants.
This trial is nothing more then a sham, with the Chee siblings already nailed from the start.
It is obvious that CSJ is exposing the venom in LKY towards his political challengers - something that even the late Dr Lee Siew Choh and J.B. Jeyaratnam atttempted to do but failed to make any impact.
Both the Emperor and the Duke have played into the plot prepared by CSJ - and this will be an eye opening lesson for the uninitiated, while those who continue to see events with blurry eyes will be rubbing their eyes so hard that it will hurt their brains.
These blurry eyed - now with a heavy head - will probably wish that they had not responded to the noise, as thinking about the unbelieveable is simply too heavy a task for their brains which has been numbed for so long.
Pao Kung had the Dragon Sword previously given by the Emperor's father, which gave Pao Kung the ultimate authority to dispense justice to one and all - including Royalty.
For one who has advocated Confuscian's Philosophy for our times, it is surprising that our Emperor do not seem to accept the teachings.
Suggested reference: “Analects of Confucius”
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What CSJ is doing is exactly the same as what the wankers in this forum are doing. Sprouting lies and hoping that no one will notice it. When they are being caught or confronted, they will bring BAO KONG to court.....Hahaha...so typical
BAO KONG KONG KONG!!!
Hey guys, talking is cheap, even my 3 year old niece can do that. The difficult part if to be able to substantiate what you are talking.
The only time CSJ is able to succeed in Singapore is when FIREICE become the chief jugde of Singapore...:D
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2 foods issues here
1.Short lunch break
Singh requested LKY to be cross exam right after LHL
released from witness stand at 12.16.
Lawyers agrued.Singh said in the recent Chambers hearings,
in at least 2 occassions,CSJ also requested hearing
adjourned at 6.30 pm for he needed attend some matters.
This forced the hearings adjourned to following day.
So,it was reasonable that yesterday CSJ returned the favour.
Judge ruled 10 mins break after CSC
said she need to take foods and medicines.
Court adjourned at about 12.25.
Court resumed at 12.56,right after CSC back in court at 12.55.
2.Any hidden agenda by CSC
Judge allowed CSC eat in court after court resumed at 1pm.
But according to ST,CSC did not eat.Why she requested and did
not eat?
What if Judge refused her request?Will it become any issue and
political ammo in the future?
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Originally posted by Gutturosa:
What CSJ is doing is exactly the same as what the wankers in this forum are doing. Sprouting lies and hoping that no one will notice it. When they are being caught or confronted, they will bring BAO KONG to court.....Hahaha...so typical
BAO KONG KONG KONG!!!
Hey guys, talking is cheap, even my 3 year old niece can do that. The difficult part if to be able to substantiate what you are talking.
The only time CSJ is able to succeed in Singapore is when FIREICE become the chief jugde of Singapore...:D
Did you manage to figure out my last response to you that appeared in the preceding posts on Page 2 of this thread ?
I am surprised that you have decided to drop your failed attempt at baiting - which was an amateurish effort to start with.
With you so hook-up on wanking, can you even begin to know what has been fed to you ? No one will doubt that your 3 year old niece can talk at her age, and we know that she will certainly be smarter than the ''wanking uncle'' - as she will surely know how to reject the shit that is offered to her by ''wolves in sheep woolly''. Can you ?
The only time that the MIW can succeed is only in the Singapore Courts - try the same in an independent court on these same issues, lets see the outcome - Devan Nair proved it in the clash of titans between LKY and DN in a Canadian Court.
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WITHOUT PREJUDICE:-
Rather than to let emotions run high and be sickened by the cheap circus show provided by CSJ on his attack of our institutions to an internationally attentive audience, let's take a rational approach and ask ourselves first before we judge even prior to the announcement of the judgement, to rein in emotive pursuits and keep it in check:-
1. If we want to accuse someone:-
a. Of a criminal act - must we not PROVIDE solid evidences and facts beyond reasonal doubts?
b. Of incapability - must we not PROVIDE solid evidences and facts of our own capabilities to show the difference?
I ask each of you, had CSJ provide such SOLID EVIDENCES AND FACTS?
A society cannot be run or function based on whimsical allegations, lies and half-truths. Do continue to twist words, qoute long passages,BUT nothing will change the fact that CSJ had not provided such SOLID EVIDENCES AND FACTS
For those who cannot make up their mind, I would suggest waiting for the judgement. For those who wish to make up their mind now, do keep inflammatory actions in check. The People don't need these, unsubstantianable accusations, not in these trying times.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Did you manage to figure out my last response to you that appeared in the preceding posts on Page 2 of this thread ?
I am surprised that you have decide to drop your failed attempt at baiting - which was an amateurish effort to start with.
With you so hook-up on wanking, can you even begin to know what has been fed to youo ? No one will doubt that your 3 year old niece can talk at her age, and we know that she will certainly be smarter than the ''wanking uncle'' - and she will surely know how to reject the shit that is offered to her by ''wolves in sheep woolly''. Can you ?
The only time that the MIW can succeed is only in the Singapore Courts - try the same in an independent court on these same issues, lets see the outcome - Devan Nair proved it in the clash of titans between LKY and DN in a Canadian Court.
He's just your regular Speaker's Corner Troll looking for excitement in his extremely deprived life.Which other deprived person would go around sniffing panties of his friend's sister (which we know was a supermodel and he knows what a supermodel bunghole smell like).
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
2 foods issues here
1.Short lunch break
Singh requested LKY to be cross exam right after LHL
released from witness stand at 12.16.
Lawyers agrued.Singh said in the recent Chambers hearings,
in at least 2 occassions,CSJ also requested hearing
adjourned at 6.30 pm for he needed attend some matters.
This forced the hearings adjourned to following day.
So,it was reasonable that yesterday CSJ returned the favour.
Judge ruled 10 mins break after CSC
said she need to take foods and medicines.
Court adjourned at about 12.25.
Court resumed at 12.56,right after CSC back in court at 12.55.
2.Any hidden agenda by CSC
Judge allowed CSC eat in court after court resumed at 1pm.
But according to ST,CSC did not eat.Why she requested and did
not eat?
What if Judge refused her request?Will it become any issue and
political ammo in the future?
Has your analytical skills sunk so low that you are able to only give such in-depth comments to the frequencies of meal breaks requested by the different parties ?
Why did you not also include the different food that was offered ?
CSC not eating in court despite being allowed 10 minutes time off ?
Ten minutes - did you package her lunch in her handbag, or was she supposed to walk out of the Supreme Court, cross over to the food court at Funan Centre, Q-for her food, and return to the court in 10 minutes ?
In your brilliant analytical mind, do you think the time given was reasonable - considering that it was already lunch hour, and for a person who is ill, food consumption is critical.
If you must be a ''noisy lion'' at least pick on issues that show the full glory of a proud lion, not one that is hopelessly brainless.
Did the lioness walked out on you ?
National Geographic recently revealed that the Lion spent all his waking hours copulating, which explains for the lion constantly sleeping if not engaging in his god-send task; and leaving the hunt to the lionness and always given the first bite.
What happened to your end of the business ?
Has it been deflated to such an extent that you given up on your efforts at procreation and fulfill the mission of MIW to increase the numbers of Singaporean ?
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Originally posted by Point_blank:
WITHOUT PREJUDICE:-
Rather than to let emotions run high and be sickened by the cheap circus show provided by CSJ on his attack of our institutions to an internationally attentive audience, let's take a rational approach and ask ourselves first before we judge even prior to the announcement of the judgement, to rein in emotive pursuits and keep it in check:-
1. If we want to accuse someone:-
a. Of a criminal act - must we not PROVIDE solid evidences and facts beyond reasonal doubts?
b. Of incapability - must we not PROVIDE solid evidences and facts of our own capabilities to show the difference?
I ask each of you, had CSJ provide such SOLID EVIDENCES AND FACTS?
A society cannot be run or function based on whimsical allegations, lies and half-truths. Do continue to twist words, qoute long passages,BUT nothing will change the fact that CSJ had not provided such SOLID EVIDENCES AND FACTS
For those who cannot make up their mind, I would suggest waiting for the judgement. For those who wish to make up their mind now, do keep inflammatory actions in check. The People don't need these, unsubstantianable accusations, not in these trying times.
SIMILARLY - Without Prejudice
Did you read what was written by CSJ ?
The general text of CSJ writing is no different from some of the threads and opinions concerning the NKF saga in the sticky thread in this Speakers' Corner.
Are you disputing the following interpretation of events that had occurred, and are the occurrance not to be treated as factual events ? As FACTS ?
1.1 The MIW Government is secretive in the manner it conducts it governmental business, refusing to account for the manner that public funds in the GIC are managed, or the amount accumulated from Singaporeans into the National Reserves that are managed by the Finance Ministry, GIC and Temasek.
1.2 The secrecy in preventing information even extend to the Elected President - whose position was specifically designed to ensure that the National Reserves will not be raided by anyone, with the Elected President holding one key, and Parliament holding the other key. Anyone who dare make insinuation or any suggestions that hint of corruption in managing the Reserves will be challenged in the Singapore Court, whose appointments of the judges depend on the Political Executives instead of any set up that is independent of any political or partisan influences.
1.2 .In the NKF saga, T.T Durai's attitude and style of management is parallel to that of the MIW Government, with secrecy covering all aspects of the management and the accounting of the NKF funds. Those who dare to accuse him in abusing NKF fund by flying First Class in his air travel were given litigation papers and damages sought - and T.T. Durai evaded the court proceedings in producing the necessary papers that would have proven the Defendant's case.
2.1 Even when the NKF scandal was about to break open, Minister Lim Hng Kiang and Minister Khaw Boon Hwan had stood up in Parliament defending NKF practices, and assured the Public that the Government is aware of the situation at NKF.
2.2 With the assurances given in Parliament by the two venerable Ministers, was there any MIW accountability after the NKF saga broke out, and the all the skeletons have finally been brought out into the daylight ?
2.3 NKF T.T. Durai was actually found to be travelling on First Class Flights at public expense, which perjured himself by lying to the courts in his actions taken against those who accuse him of this wrong doing with public funds.
3.1 At this time, with Judge Belinda Ang refusing to exercise her authority to reprimand those who barge into her court, when proceedings are ongoing - it already shows who is doing the bowing to which side of the bench.
3.2 T.T. Durai would not have suffered his consequences had he been more been able to wield a bigger political sword.
What facts do you want to see, or are you walking with dark shades that filter out the light that you cannot discern the different colors, and have now sensitised your sight nerves to respond only to certain color bands ?
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You destroyed SDP, MM Lee tells Chee
By MICHELLE QUAH
(SINGAPORE) There was no shortage of tension and drama at the High Court yesterday, as Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew were cross-examined by opposition Singapore Democratic Party (SDP) leader Chee Soon Juan and his sister Chee Siok Chin.
While Monday saw PM Lee labelling Dr Chee as 'a liar, a cheat, somebody who has brought discredit to the opposition and to Singapore', yesterday saw MM Lee share his views of the opposition party leader, when he called Dr Chee 'unscrupulous', a 'psychopath' and someone who 'destroyed the SDP'.
The hearing is to assess the damages the SDP and the Chee siblings have to pay PM Lee and MM Lee for defaming them, in articles in their party newsletter two years ago. They had alleged that the Lees were corrupt and had covered up wrongdoings at the National Kidney Foundation (NKF).
For the prime minister, it was his second day on the stand - and Justice Belinda Ang saw fit to move the session along swiftly by limiting the time of the Chees' cross-examination of him.
Justice Ang also threw out many of their questions on the grounds of irrelevance - questions ranging from ministerial pay to HDB costs - which prompted Ms Chee to plead: 'You've already chopped off our arms, our legs - what do you want next, our heads?'
The cross-examination of MM Lee was kept similarly tight, with a time limit of two hours - a matter ensured by the minister mentor himself when he challenged his cross-examiners to get to the meat of the issues. 'If they (the Chees) have important devastating revelations to make, they wouldn't be allowing you (SDP lawyer M Ravi) to put all these irrelevant questions to me, because it's time-wasting,' MM Lee said.
He added: 'One reason why we have allowed this altercation to go on is because we are leaning over backwards to allow you (Dr Chee) enough rope to tie yourself up. And you have successfully done that.'
The minister mentor said he had to sue the Chees for defamation as they had impugned the integrity of the government, of which he used to be prime minister.
Defending the achievements of the government, MM Lee drew comparisons with Taiwan and Hong Kong - whose leaders have upheld Singapore as an example to follow. 'The final test is what Singapore was when I became prime minister in 1959, and what Singapore is now. We had less than S$100 million in the kitty. Today . . . global financial services assess Singapore to have sovereign wealth funds of over US$300 billion,' MM Lee said.
He also criticised Dr Chee's leadership of the SDP and called him a 'political juvenile'.
'The SDP was doing very well under Mr Chiam See Tong, and at one time captured three seats, and it became the de facto leader. You came in, and destroyed the SDP,' MM Lee said.
He pointed out that Mr Chiam and Workers' Party leader Low Thia Khiang have successfully won their election bids without defaming anyone. 'But you have lost successively, because we have proved to the people that you are not to be believed.'
When asked if he would consider mediation as a means of resolving his dispute with Dr Chee, MM Lee quipped: 'Your Honour, it is so bizarre a question, I will need Solomon to be revived - and I do not believe Solomon can mediate between a psychopath and sane, rational people.'
The hearing continues today, for the various parties to make their closing submissions.