The Culture of Fear and Selfish Existence in our society
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Someone in another site has asked the question why so few of our elites are speaking up for the people in our society.
Apart from ex-civil servant Ngiam Tong Dow, ex-speaker Tan Soo Khoon, ex-Income-CEO Tan Kin Lian who else? Not many.
An average joe sorry to say has been so brainwashed consciously or sub-consciously for many years from teens to adulthood by government-controlled media indoctrination that they can no longer tell the difference between right and wrong, justice and evil, oppression and victimisation etc etc. Just because of constant headlines screaming the defamation suit and all the propaganda about telling of lies against people like CSJ etc many have been made to believe the untruth.
Many elites too many not realize the transformation of grey matter. Fear creeps gradually and irretrievably into their whole being but this will not be admitted as abnormal or cowardice.Let us call a spade a spade for a start. I feel there is an certain illness afflicting the whole society and the solution is to tell the truth as we see them even the truth about ourselves even when we may be hurt by such truth. We need to find an antidote to rid or the climate of fear and begin to act normal as healthy citizenry and not shy away from speaking up and telling the truths. Why merely pretend to forget or ignore the wrong doings and exist without morality or sense of right and wrong just to go through the merest and dry biological existence.
It is time to ponder over such basic issues and start asking ourselves why is it so difficult to speak our mind about right or wrong?
For a start let us see what is so difficult to call a spade a spade like what Ngiam has done. Why be so afraid to tell the truth or express our feeling about certain policies which may be wrongful or working against the common interest of the people.
To me I feel it is important we as people must know how to speak up our mind honestly without fear or favor of course without defaming any one's character to the best of our ability.
We simply have to pull ourselves together and sacrifice a bit to commit ourselves to at least play a small part. Tell the truth and speak up without fear or favor or defaming anyone and uphold the first principle of morality as citizen.
If the more educated cannot speak for us too then what is going to happen to the whole society? Surely by saying nothing things are not going to improve or get better such as more accountability and openness in the governing of the country. The elites may well enjoy a better material life and get ahead in his own career etc but is he finally at peace with himself and society if society comes across many crisis like NKF or Selamat again and again.
Ngiam Tong Dow, Tan Kin Lian, Tan Soo Koon etc belong to the rare breed but they were tolerated to serve a certain purpose - to showcase certain degree of tolerance which is merely for show or hypocrisy. I wonder if Ngiam realizes he is merely serving a hidden agenda which he himself may or may not even realise.
To me, this is quite a phenomenon in our little red dot. We have many unsavory culture. Yellow culture, is sexiness. Pink culture may be worshipping of foreigner. Blue culture we have them too. Now we may have a new culture - "kou cher dou shen" or "just manage to survive without principle".
The more common idiom may be "do not trouble trouble unless trouble troubles you".
Someone I know of was noted for being acquiescent too not in the habit of speaking his mind regarding wrongful act of government people are talking about like ministerial salary issue or rising costs of living.
However one day his property was frozen by urban redevelopment conservation scheme and he became frantic and seeking help from every one and became more sober.
So the moral of the story - most people who are compliant of government wrong doings or oppressive action do not act until he himself becomes a victim. Beware of such individuals and get them to understand and realize their own citizens' duties and judgmental flaws.
Collectively when every one we know begins to exercise his one ounce of righteousness and uprightness about right and wrong and will speak up on the truth like Ngiam is trying his very best to do we all the ordinary citizens will be a force to reckon with much more powerful than a strong opposition party.If every one we know has the sense of right and wrong we will as a people at least in expressing displeasure of wrong doings will be powerful to check on wrong doing as has happened and any hidden agendas and hypocrisy.
The States Times then will have no choice but to follow the morality or culture of such a upright people.
When the time comes we will then find pleasure as active citizens and the role we could play without expecting any rewards for ourselves.
For now strong civic consciousness is rare. When we are only slowly getting a bit of community in this forum and it is not too bad for a start. But we need more of such spirit and continuing maturity and growth as a culture if we want a better government and the citizens to be counted. -
The first generation that was involved in politics had a shared vision in battling the Colonial Government with their haughty racist attitude in governing Asians.
It was surprising that during the 1950s, the personalities that formed the first cabinet was a disparate lot - coming from different backgrounds and all not born in Singapore, as some were from the Malayan States, others from India and Indonesia.
All were vocal and spirited in their cause, and none less than LKY - and all were tolerated by the British Colonial Government during those days, and more so than an independent Singapore towards her own Citizens.
It was reported that in the first LKY Cabinet, he had formidable personalities that were all able to debate and argue policy matters with him, and consensus came about by such means of brain-storming and verbal jousting of ideas. With so many strong charactered persons in a Team, someone or everyone has to give way to reach consensus or the government will be paralysed.
Those who were reputed to give LKY a run for his money as PM - were Dr Toh Chin Chye as DPM, Dr Goh Keng Swee, Mr S Rajaratnam, Mr E Barker, Mr Jek Yoon Tong, Mr Ong Pang Boon, and Mr Yong Nyuk Lin.
Dr Toh Chin Chye, who was the DPM in LKY's first cabinet, and was also the Chairman of the PAP - after being sidelined to become a very vociferous backbencher - had said the following to the Youth of Singapore after he retired:
“I would say the generation of the ‘50s and ‘60s took the plunge into politics without ever calculating the costs of the risk and the benefits to be gained. They were driven by ideology. Today’s generation has no culture and averse to taking political risk. Really, an interest in politics is very necessary for the future. But I cannot blame the present generations, because they see the heavy-handed response by the government to dissenting views, even though they know that these matters involve their daily lives.
So the result is that we have produced a younger generation who are meek and therefore very calculating. They are less independent-thinking and lack in initiative. It does not bode well for the emergence of future leaders in politics and business. Robots and computers can be programmed or if you like, can be trained. But the trouble, of course, is that computers lack soul and what we need in Singapore is soul. Because it is soul that makes society.”It would have been interesting to read the memoirs of Dr Toh - as he is known to be an honest person, possessing a high standard of dignity, and respect towards even his political opponents.
His pride has probably prevented him to bow to the pressures of having to dilute or modify the narration his own total experiences during his long tenure in politics. With his DPM position in the Cabinet and a Chairman of the PAP, he is standing shoulder to shoulder to LKY in terms of responsibility even though he is shorter than LKY by at least a quarter.
It was Toh who held the cabinet together when Singapore was booted out of Malaysia, and LKY submitted his resignation paper to the Chairman; who together with Dr Goh Keng Swee, Mr S Rajaratnam, and other senior party members decided to reject LKY's letter.
Dr Toh's departure from politics was an unhappy affair, when he was asked to stepped aside under a 'dubious' program of self-renewal, which saw him giving up his Cabinet position, and soon after also his Chairmanship of the Party - and only to become a Back Bencher in Parliament. His reservations and instinct towards the 'self-renewal' program that was on LKY's political agenda created sharp division in the Party, with bits and pieces spilling out into the press. It now seems that Dr Toh's concern has seen its fruition with LKY's continued tenure into the foreseeable future, when the entire first generation MPs are all long gone.
It would have been insightful if Dr Toh had been able to put his memoirs into print, and allow generations to learn of his experiences and also the events during those critical periods towards Self-Government, then into Malaysia, the period when Singapore was unceremoniously booted out of Malaysia, the struggles in finding a way into the future for Singapore with the many internal Cabinet debates on dubious policies, and the manner that the Government is runned; and more importantly his views to his working relationship with LKY.
Dr Toh is known to be a man with a high standard of integrity and dignity, with respects towards others even his most raucous political opponents.
Will a man that has such strong values bow to the dictates imposed on him by his Oath to protect States Secrets that was taken during his term as DPM in cabinet, and with no time limit to such an Oath ? Will he write his memoirs with one hand tied behind his back, and the truth to be modified to suit secrecy laws ?
Can Singapore hope for its future generations to learn anything from the past, when truth has to be suppressed by Secrecy Laws that has no time bar ?
In a slight modification to the question posed by Senior Civil Servant - Mr Ngiam Tong Dow : ''Is the interest of the Ruling Political Party bigger than that of Singapore and Singaporeans ?"
Reference: ‘The Man who made PAP, and the Man who made Singapore’
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Originally posted by Atobe:
The first generation that was involved in politics had a shared vision in battling the Colonial Government with their haughty racist attitude in governing Asians.
It was surprising that during the 1950s, the personalities that formed the first cabinet was a disparate lot - coming from different backgrounds and all not born in Singapore, as some were from the Malayan States, others from India and Indonesia.
All were vocal and spirited in their cause, and none less than LKY - and all were tolerated by the British Colonial Government during those days, and more so than an independent Singapore towards her own Citizens.
It was reported that in the first LKY Cabinet, he had formidable personalities that were all able to debate and argue policy matters with him, and consensus came about by such means of brain-storming and verbal jousting of ideas. With so many strong charactered persons in a Team, someone or everyone has to give way to reach consensus or the government will be paralysed.
Those who were reputed to give LKY a run for his money as PM - were Dr Toh Chin Chye as DPM, Dr Goh Keng Swee, Mr S Rajaratnam, Mr E Barker, Mr Jek Yoon Tong, Mr Ong Pang Boon, and Mr Yong Nyuk Lin.
Dr Toh Chin Chye, who was the DPM in LKY's first cabinet, and was also the Chairman of the PAP - after being sidelined to become a very vociferous backbencher - had said the following to the Youth of Singapore after he retired:
It would have been interesting to read the memoirs of Dr Toh - as he is known to be an honest person, possessing a high standard of dignity, and respect towards even his political opponents.
His pride has probably prevented him to bow to the pressures of having to dilute or modify the narration his own total experiences during his long tenure in politics. With his DPM position in the Cabinet and a Chairman of the PAP, he is standing shoulder to shoulder to LKY in terms of responsibility even though he is shorter than LKY by at least a quarter.
It was Toh who held the cabinet together when Singapore was booted out of Malaysia, and LKY submitted his resignation paper to the Chairman; who together with Dr Goh Keng Swee, Mr S Rajaratnam, and other senior party members decided to reject LKY's letter.
Dr Toh's departure from politics was an unhappy affair, when he was asked to stepped aside under a 'dubious' program of self-renewal, which saw him giving up his Cabinet position, and soon after also his Chairmanship of the Party - and only to become a Back Bencher in Parliament. His reservations and instinct towards the 'self-renewal' program that was on LKY's political agenda created sharp division in the Party, with bits and pieces spilling out into the press. It now seems that Dr Toh's concern has seen its fruition with LKY's continued tenure into the foreseeable future, when the entire first generation MPs are all long gone.
It would have been insightful if Dr Toh had been able to put his memoirs into print, and allow generations to learn of his experiences and also the events during those critical periods towards Self-Government, then into Malaysia, the period when Singapore was unceremoniously booted out of Malaysia, the struggles in finding a way into the future for Singapore with the many internal Cabinet debates on dubious policies, and the manner that the Government is runned; and more importantly his views to his working relationship with LKY.
Dr Toh is known to be a man with a high standard of integrity and dignity, with respects towards others even his most raucous political opponents.
Will a man that has such strong values bow to the dictates imposed on him by his Oath to protect States Secrets that was taken during his term as DPM in cabinet, and with no time limit to such an Oath ? Will he write his memoirs with one hand tied behind his back, and the truth to be modified to suit secrecy laws ?
Can Singapore hope for its future generations to learn anything from the past, when truth has to be suppressed by Secrecy Laws that has no time bar ?
In a slight modification to the question posed by Senior Civil Servant - Mr Ngiam Tong Dow : ''Is the interest of the Ruling Political Party bigger than that of Singapore and Singaporeans ?"
Reference: ‘The Man who made PAP, and the Man who made Singapore’
Asswipe Atobe, you word whore, do have some decency not to embarass yourself futher with your post. At least people like robertteh and obnoxious maurizio13, even though complain, they do provide credible food for thought.BUT YOU, asswipe, provide only deliberate twisted facts, lies and half truths in the guise of psuedo intellect worthy only of a conmen gathering, and do nothing but contibute harm to the People. You are the kind of opposition and bastard opposition supporters our People do not need!
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Originally posted by Point_blank:
Asswipe Atobe, you word whore, do have some decency not to embarass yourself futher with your post. At least people like robertteh and obnoxious maurizio13, even though complain, they do provide credible food for thought.BUT YOU, asswipe, provide only deliberate twisted facts, lies and half truths in the guise of psuedo intellect worthy only of a conmen gathering, and do nothing but contibute harm to the People. You are the kind of opposition and bastard opposition supporters our People do not need!
Tantrums, tantrums, tantrums.It is surely ironical that after being swiped across the various threads in the Speakers' Corner you will dare to indulge more in your juvenile efforts at vulgarities, which simply is a reflection of yourself.
'word whore' ?
Are you not a 'word whore' with your stupendous juvenile ability at verbage - as seen in your creative production of vulgarities to express of your impotent arguments from a 'Point_blank' mind ?
Since when have you proven your ability to diffentiate credibility with your incredulous and deluded ways in understanding and arguing issues - that have led you to be consistently trounced and exposed for your 'Point_blank' thoughts ?
Can we believe your ability to appreciate the writings of robbertteh and maurizio13 - as ''food for thought'' - when you have consistently derided their posts ?
Who are you trying to con ?
Are you disputing that you are the one who have been consistently proven to have twisted facts - as seen from your other response when you twisted the event in Election 2006 by dubiously stating that -
''MP Low Thia Kiang's standing beside James Gomez who read a prepared legal drafted statement of apology"
- and from this statement inferred that it was a fact that MP Low made the apology, so as to suit your own dubious position in your argument with me.
Any school kid above Primary 5 with sufficient grounding in the English Language would have laughed at your 'Point_blank' efforts to deride MP Low Thia Kiang in swallowing the humble pie to make a public apology for James Gomez mistake.
You have repeatedly claimed that I have given half-truths and lies, yet you have not been able to pin-point which one of my statement is a lie or a half-truth.
Can we depend on your dubious 'Point_blank' genious in judgment without any facts or evidence to your claims and accusation ?
It is not so clever for you to follow the style of your God Father, when your potency has not even reached puberty stage, and all your 'Point_blank' clueless efforts will simply bastardise his reputation further through your juvenile imitative acts in carrying his hatchet for him.
Could your scandolous efforts at imitating your God Father be a result of some genetic quirk left in you to become an incomplete bastardised version of your idol.
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Tantrums, tantrums, tantrums.
It is surely ironical that after being swiped across the various threads in the Speakers' Corner you will dare to indulge more in your juvenile efforts at vulgarities, which simply is a reflection of yourself.
'word whore' ?
Are you not a 'word whore' with your stupendous juvenile ability at verbage - as seen in your creative production of vulgarities to express of your impotent arguments from a 'Point_blank' mind ?
Since when have you proven your ability to diffentiate credibility with your incredulous and deluded ways in understanding and arguing issues - that have led you to be consistently trounced and exposed for your 'Point_blank' thoughts ?
Can we believe your ability to appreciate the writings of robbertteh and maurizio13 - as ''food for thought'' - when you have consistently derided their posts ?
Ouch... ownage...
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Can Palestinians and Jews ever be friends?
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Ouch... ownage...
i lol-ed at Atobe's reply but i lol-ed even harder at ur reply.. took the words out of my mouth lol.. -
Point_blank,
Atobe is right in his perspective. If among our leaders we have the luck of a leader like Dr. Toh Chin Chye to continue to take charge instead of being out-maneurved into early retirement on some dubious ground like renewal of old blood with new blood, today Singapore might well be rising above the subsistence struggle seen of our economy.
Deng Xiao Peng was another good example. Although he held political power but he stepped aside setting a personal example of that kind of leadership renewal China needed to survive in a different age.
After Deng has set a good personal example of himself, the next crop of leaders in communist China began to work selflessly obeying somewhat the precedence set by the highly respected Deng and China has succeeded in throwing up further batches of good leaders from Chiang Jeming to Hu Jin Tao and Wen Jia Bao.
It is morality, selfishlessness, dedication, uprightness, and virtue which are more powerful forces than plain legalistic tweaking which will only produce such self-glorifying elites as we now see.
It is hoped that we have the luck to produce another good crop of leaders equal to Deng Xia Peng or Hu Jin Tao and Wen Jia Bao.
Only such qualities as mentioned in the foregoing as possessed by ex-president Ong Teng Cheong, Dr. Toh Chin Chye and Dr. Goh Keng Swee who are dedicated and selfless and of virtue could succeed in righting our present wrongs in the system and take us higher.
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robberteh,
It is 'pointless' to believe that you can convince a 'Point_blank' person to appreciate what you have posted, even if he claim that your works are food for thought.
Can a 'Point_blank' mind think ?
Do not be surprised when he will ask you for proof to substantiate what you have just posted - as if he will know how to evaluate with a 'Point_blank' mind and make any logical conclusion.
A 'Point_blank' mind is like an A4 blank sheet of white paper, with only one tiny black dot on the paper.
Can such a mind go beyond the edge of its A4 'Point_blank' size ?
.
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The perception then was on public service – serving the public and forgoing certain monetary benefits that could otherwise be earned in the private sector. The view that public servants should be remunerated justly but never lucratively helped to attract abled and public spirited people to serve in the sector. However, as of present, fat paychecks have superseded the holistic nature of public service and thus the aptitude and quality of those who serve.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Are you not a 'word whore' with your stupendous juvenile ability at verbage - as seen in your creative production of vulgarities.IRONY ?? HAHAHA
"I am positively absolutely definitely unequivocally not a word whore"
"There are absolutely no true statements"
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Originally posted by robertteh:
Point_blank,
If among our leaders we have the luck of a leader like Dr. Toh Chin Chye to continue to take charge instead of being out-maneurved into early retirement on some dubious ground like renewal of old blood with new blood, today Singapore might well be rising above the subsistence struggle seen of our economy.
Only such qualities as mentioned in the foregoing as possessed by ex-president Ong Teng Cheong, Dr. Toh Chin Chye and Dr. Goh Keng Swee who are dedicated and selfless and of virtue could succeed in righting our present wrongs in the system and take us higher.
Robert, your points are moot, because we will not know the truth of what will happen one way or another. It is easy to upon hindsight to claim so and so could have done a better job. But we do not live in a flux - critical decisions have to be made daily to ensure the survival of a People.The point of it all is, were we better off than our forefathers in pre-independence days or not? Are there homeless citizens in the streets of their own choice? Are the poor neglected? Are our children deprive of best education? Are those who were harmed by the elements not helped by the govt or community help groups? Are the old and infirm denied of medical aid?
Search your heart and you will be to answer those questions and seek the truth deep within you.
PS: If you want me to reply you again, please do not make references to that asswipe atobe. He/She has no credibility to engage in any intellectual excercises for she/he knows only to twist her words, spread lies and half truths, talk more crap then to deal with issues.
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Originally posted by Point_blank:
Robert, your points are moot, because we will not know the truth of what will happen one way or another. It is easy to upon hindsight to claim so and so could have done a better job. But we do not live in a flux - critical decisions have to be made daily to ensure the survival of a People.The point of it all is, were we better off than our forefathers in pre-independence days or not? Are there homeless citizens in the streets of their own choice? Are the poor neglected? Are our children deprive of best education? Are those who were harmed by the elements not helped by the govt or community help groups? Are the old and infirm denied of medical aid?
Search your heart and you will be to answer those questions and seek the truth deep within you.
You seem quite oblivious to reality eh ?
All those rhetorical questions. The homeless, the poor, the deprived, the sick, the whatever else you mentioned. Who's telling you about them ? The straits times ? the govt regulated internet ? Please ...
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Originally posted by HyperionDCZ:
You seem quite oblivious to reality eh ?
All those rhetorical questions. The homeless, the poor, the deprived, the sick, the whatever else you mentioned. Who's telling you about them ? The straits times ? the govt regulated internet ? Please ...
And you persist on living in fantasy?MCD is an open book. CDCs are an open book. The streets of Singapore are an open book. Open your eyes instead of having it clouded with your delusions and attempts to fool others.
Right now, everyone is feeling the inflationary pinch, not just us singaporeans. It is phenomenon of the world's doing and not our nation's policies.
I will not compare worse of nations, for we can do better, and that is what our govt and responsible citizens are doing, to find pragmatic solutions to help everyone of us, by action and not by mere words.
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Originally posted by Point_blank:
And you persist on living in fantasy?MCD is an open book. CDCs are an open book. The streets of Singapore are an open book. Open your eyes instead of having it clouded with your delusions and attempts to fool others.
Uhh do you know what 'oblivious' means ? Because if your first sentence was any form of response, it made absolutely no sense.
For the topic at hand, you're not getting the point. I've raised the GOVT CONTROLLED media, and you're countering it with GOVT CONTROLLED entities like CDCs.
And the streets of Singapore can deceive you. You think the government will allow the poor and homeless to loiter around densely populated areas ? For people like me and you to observe and then criticize govt policy ? Ever wondered why begging is outlawed ? Ever wondered how NKF so easily finds those heart wrenching "case studies" broadcast during the charity shows ?
You ask me to open my eyes, you think yours are open because you can SEE that nothing seems to be wrong. Try not to believe everything you see. I should be the one asking you .. "And you persist on living in fantasy?". This reality you believe so much in, is not real.
Ask the guy who sleeps at playgrounds.
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Originally posted by HyperionDCZ:
Uhh do you know what 'oblivious' means ? Because if your first sentence was any form of response, it made absolutely no sense.
For the topic at hand, you're not getting the point. I've raised the GOVT CONTROLLED media, and you're countering it with GOVT CONTROLLED entities like CDCs.
And the streets of Singapore can deceive you. You think the government will allow the poor and homeless to loiter around densely populated areas ? For people like me and you to observe and then criticize govt policy ? Ever wondered why begging is outlawed ? Ever wondered how NKF so easily finds those heart wrenching "case studies" broadcast during the charity shows ?
You ask me to open my eyes, you think yours are open because you can SEE that nothing seems to be wrong. Try not to believe everything you see. I should be the one asking you .. "And you persist on living in fantasy?". This reality you believe so much in, is not real.
Ask the guy who sleeps at playgrounds.
I know of a guy who sleeps at playgrounds, he is a foreign worker, and prefers the open space than to his packed dorm. He is a responsibility of his country, not ours, though we can only help him so much, for we have our own citizens to care of.
Seems that your intention here is not for intelligent discourse but to ridicule with closeminded and blind nonsense. Need i reply to you any further?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
“I would say the generation of the ‘50s and ‘60s took the plunge into politics without ever calculating the costs of the risk and the benefits to be gained. They were driven by ideology. Today’s generation has no culture and averse to taking political risk. Really, an interest in politics is very necessary for the future. But I cannot blame the present generations, because they see the heavy-handed response by the government to dissenting views, even though they know that these matters involve their daily lives.
So the result is that we have produced a younger generation who are meek and therefore very calculating. They are less independent-thinking and lack in initiative. It does not bode well for the emergence of future leaders in politics and business. Robots and computers can be programmed or if you like, can be trained. But the trouble, of course, is that computers lack soul and what we need in Singapore is soul. Because it is soul that makes society.”well said
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Singaporeans are very much controlled by fear and those whatever propaganda from the controlled press. My friend from Myanmar is surprised that those Singaporeans he meets believes what the local media say. He commented that I am the first one whom he meets who is objective (not brainwashed).
Lee Kuan Yew is formidable that was why he was fast to make the local media under his control once he became the PM. He has seen what media can do harm to politicians. The oppositions here are not given fair treatment by the local media and thus those who do not read with objectivity are brainwashed and think that oppositions are troublemakers.
May more and more Singaporeans read, watch and listen to local media with open mind, let these people be politically mature then we will see changes in our country.
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THANKS civil for the valuable insight ! I think our friend here Point_blank can see for himself, how deluded he is, trusting what he sees and hears from our media. The irony of him calling me closeminded...
Originally posted by Point_blank:I know of a guy who sleeps at playgrounds, he is a foreign worker, and prefers the open space than to his packed dorm. He is a responsibility of his country, not ours, though we can only help him so much, for we have our own citizens to care of.
Seems that your intention here is not for intelligent discourse but to ridicule with closeminded and blind nonsense. Need i reply to you any further?
sorry i find you very amusing. You dont have to start hurling insults just because your argumentation is weak and you cant counter my points. "closeminded and blind nonsense" ? Would you like to prove that your opinion is perfectly justified ?All you have done so far, is avoidance. You talk about foreign workers ? Who is referring to foreign workers here ? I'm talking about LOCALS, who are homeless and helpless. "talking to the guy who sleeps at the playground" is an example, and an expression. Not a literal instruction ... Goodness!
So dont get started on "intelligent discourse", when you're not even fulfilling the very basics of discourse. You've just demonstrated your inabilitywith logical fallacies and essentially subpar argumentation. And you accuse me of being here to ridicule ? I'll say, i'm more than happy to ridicule the weak
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Originally posted by HyperionDCZ:
sorry i find you very amusing. You dont have to start hurling insults just because your argumentation is weak and you cant counter my points. "closeminded and blind nonsense" ? Would you like to prove that your opinion is perfectly justified ?All you have done so far, is avoidance. You talk about foreign workers ? Who is referring to foreign workers here ? I'm talking about LOCALS, who are homeless and helpless. "talking to the guy who sleeps at the playground" is an example, and an expression. Not a literal instruction ... Goodness!
So dont get started on "intelligent discourse", when you're not even fulfilling the very basics of discourse. You've just demonstrated your inabilitywith logical fallacies and essentially subpar argumentation. And you accuse me of being here to ridicule ? I'll say, i'm more than happy to ridicule the weak
You are welcome. Just come across these in the website so thought it good to share with forumers here.
Point_blank is upset that nobody gives him any support and agree with him. Facts are facts, reality is reality, these are all for us to observe, read, see and think about them. There is no way to deny them. It is affecting our life and how are we to ignore these.
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Originally posted by Point_blank:
Robert, your points are moot, because we will not know the truth of what will happen one way or another. It is easy to upon hindsight to claim so and so could have done a better job. But we do not live in a flux - critical decisions have to be made daily to ensure the survival of a People.The point of it all is, were we better off than our forefathers in pre-independence days or not? Are there homeless citizens in the streets of their own choice? Are the poor neglected? Are our children deprive of best education? Are those who were harmed by the elements not helped by the govt or community help groups? Are the old and infirm denied of medical aid?
Search your heart and you will be to answer those questions and seek the truth deep within you.
PS: If you want me to reply you again, please do not make references to that asswipe atobe. He/She has no credibility to engage in any intellectual excercises for she/he knows only to twist her words, spread lies and half truths, talk more crap then to deal with issues.
No body is saying M/W have not contributed to the development of the little red dot. So you do not have to belabor this point.
When I criticise M/W for his policies or attitude towards the people, I do keep in mind at all time he has been one of the founding fathers like Dr. Toh Chin Chye, ex-President Ong Teng Cheong and Dr. Goh Keng Swee.
However my point is that because M/W seems to be claiming all the credit or most of the credit to himself, he has been doing a great disservice to the nation.
He has to be more humble and practise virtue and morality in governing the country instead of claiming he knows all and behaving so belligerently to all his political oppositions or people who ever posed a threat to him.
Up to now after so many posts you do not seem to appreciate all these objective views in Atobe's or others' posts in this forum so far.
He certainly has more substance in his posts than those who keep trying to intercept such views here like gazelle or Oxford Mushroom. So I hope you could stop calling him or anyone names or deriding them for any views critical of government policies or attitude. These views of citizens are healthy and normal in any civilised society so do not be so negative towards them. Take a positive approach to people and you will do better in being part of change for M/W. In any change or difficulty there is an opportunity. Only problem is many people even great leaders cannot see the opportunity inherent in problems.
If there are certain NKF or Shin Corp wrong doings or hypocrisy of the government or M/W let them take the opportunity to change for the better and win over those who criticise them. Why resort to calling them liars and presume to know all truths and refuse to examine themselves.
If after what have been done to citizens if today we still have citizens like these who are still willing and passionate to spend time trying to give their views here in internet we are lucky including M/W who will finally benefit from their views.
Collectively the average joe still has a higher duty over and above his humdrum job and calling to society to check on government by offering his two cents worth in whatever forum. If they are well informed and well studied so much the better. If not so talented, they should can still play a useful role as active citizens here.I applaud all of them for whatever their contributions nor matter how humble or insignificant.
For for people like gazelle or Oxford Mushroom they have been denied of their so-called "talk cock sing song" stance here many time.
So I do hope you can understand truths will finally triumph over hypocrisy about things like ministers' talents or their million-dollar talents as can be seen in their own lack of worth in the Mas Selamant case. A school boy can see the shame in such cowardise in failing to take responsibility for melt down in the security system.
Go back and give all these worthwhile and objective feedbacks to M/W of people's views like the NKF, Shin Corp, Mas Selamant and unhappiness over ministers' writing their own cheques and claiming their own worths without shame.
Above tell them not to adopt such a negative condescending attitude towards their own people. Such holier-than-thou attitude of M/W is horrendous by any human standard. You of course will not appreciate all these valuable views if you are paid to do your counter-insurgency here so to speak.
No one is perfect even for M/W. So it is quite wrong for your to continue to pretend to be so perfect always trying to advise people all over the world although he cannot even handle truth himself.
Tell him to be humble and come down to earth and make amend of his many errors and mistakes in the governing of this little red dot and he will be a greater leader.
When that happens, I will be the first one to praise him and apologize for my many criticisms of his policies and wrong attitudes toward his own people.
As citizens they do not have to be accountable to the leaders because the leaders wear the crown and uneasy is he who wears the crown,
If citizens do not understand certain things M/W say or try to say, at the end it is still the duty and responsibility of the M/W to bear with them educate them, promote positive values, cohesiveness and closeness with the citizens to forge a strong loyal team to build the nation.
Has M/W lived up to such expectations by the way they are suing people for lies which are only defined in his own vocabulary.
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Originally posted by Point_blank:
Robert, your points are moot, because we will not know the truth of what will happen one way or another. It is easy to upon hindsight to claim so and so could have done a better job. But we do not live in a flux - critical decisions have to be made daily to ensure the survival of a People.The point of it all is, were we better off than our forefathers in pre-independence days or not? Are there homeless citizens in the streets of their own choice? Are the poor neglected? Are our children deprive of best education? Are those who were harmed by the elements not helped by the govt or community help groups? Are the old and infirm denied of medical aid?
Search your heart and you will be to answer those questions and seek the truth deep within you.
PS: If you want me to reply you again, please do not make references to that asswipe atobe. He/She has no credibility to engage in any intellectual excercises for she/he knows only to twist her words, spread lies and half truths, talk more crap then to deal with issues.
Welcome back from your abrupt absence of leave when going into painful labor in your useless search for more 'blank_points' to make.
Can anyone blame you for your continued delusion, when you start from your admitted 'Point_blank' misnomer - which is purely a bankrupt position in arguing anything ?
It seems that was your minimum honesty that began with a small point on a blank screen - filled with emptiness - as proven in all your arguments presented.
Do I need to twist my words when each and every one of your failed points is due to your own carelessness in presenting your own arguments that were without any basis - but mere ''blanks'' in the ''points'' that you attempted to push down everyone's sight ?
While facts of events that occurred have been presented, you continuously deride these as half-truths, lies, and words twisted to suit my argument.
In response to your own deluded position, you have continuously been challenged to indicate which one of my statements made were false, lies, and even half-truths that you have claimed - yet after having crossed words through several threads, you have still been unable to single any one particular word, phrase, sentence, or whole paragraphs from my posts to substantiate your claim.
Is your intellect any higher then the participant 'eagle' - whom you insulted by calling him a simpleton - when you are no better than that of lionnoisy, or Aelop a.k.a Gazelle, or even the one with a boasted PhD qualification that is scrapped together of paper made from the fibres of ''mushrooms'' gathered in ''Oxford'' ?
For one who claims others to be word whore, you seem to be the one who indulge in the vulgar trade of prostituting your honesty, conscience and morals in the continued propagation of a blind lie that Singapore is a First World Country.
At least the prostitutes - derided as whores - have performed more honest services than you possibly can despite your self-acclaimed higher standards of intellectual honesty or morals.
Do you have no shame after being treated like an Ass, with your butt consistenlty being swiped ?
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Culture of Fear?
That is what Lee Kuan Yew wants.
"If you don't fear me, I am nothing" - Lee Kuan Yew
http://singaporedissident.blogspot.com/2008/05/
He is a strange man.
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Originally posted by robertteh:
No body is saying M/W have not contributed to the development of the little red dot. So you do not have to belabor this point.
When I criticise M/W for his policies or attitude towards the people, I do keep in mind at all time he has been one of the founding fathers like Dr. Toh Chin Chye, ex-President Ong Teng Cheong and Dr. Goh Keng Swee.
However my point is that because M/W seems to be claiming all the credit or most of the credit to himself, he has been doing a great disservice to the nation.
He has to be more humble and practise virtue and morality in governing the country instead of claiming he knows all and behaving so belligerently to all his political oppositions or people who ever posed a threat to him.
Up to now after so many posts you do not seem to appreciate all these objective views in Atobe's or others' posts in this forum so far.
He certainly has more substance in his posts than those who keep trying to intercept such views here like gazelle or Oxford Mushroom. So I hope you could stop calling him or anyone names or deriding them for any views critical of government policies or attitude. These views of citizens are healthy and normal in any civilised society so do not be so negative towards them. Take a positive approach to people and you will do better in being part of change for M/W. In any change or difficulty there is an opportunity. Only problem is many people even great leaders cannot see the opportunity inherent in problems.
If there are certain NKF or Shin Corp wrong doings or hypocrisy of the government or M/W let them take the opportunity to change for the better and win over those who criticise them. Why resort to calling them liars and presume to know all truths and refuse to examine themselves.
If after what have been done to citizens if today we still have citizens like these who are still willing and passionate to spend time trying to give their views here in internet we are lucky including M/W who will finally benefit from their views.
Collectively the average joe still has a higher duty over and above his humdrum job and calling to society to check on government by offering his two cents worth in whatever forum. If they are well informed and well studied so much the better. If not so talented, they should can still play a useful role as active citizens here.I applaud all of them for whatever their contributions nor matter how humble or insignificant.
For for people like gazelle or Oxford Mushroom they have been denied of their so-called "talk cock sing song" stance here many time.
So I do hope you can understand truths will finally triumph over hypocrisy about things like ministers' talents or their million-dollar talents as can be seen in their own lack of worth in the Mas Selamant case. A school boy can see the shame in such cowardise in failing to take responsibility for melt down in the security system.
Go back and give all these worthwhile and objective feedbacks to M/W of people's views like the NKF, Shin Corp, Mas Selamant and unhappiness over ministers' writing their own cheques and claiming their own worths without shame.
Above tell them not to adopt such a negative condescending attitude towards their own people. Such holier-than-thou attitude of M/W is horrendous by any human standard. You of course will not appreciate all these valuable views if you are paid to do your counter-insurgency here so to speak.
No one is perfect even for M/W. So it is quite wrong for your to continue to pretend to be so perfect always trying to advise people all over the world although he cannot even handle truth himself.
Tell him to be humble and come down to earth and make amend of his many errors and mistakes in the governing of this little red dot and he will be a greater leader.
When that happens, I will be the first one to praise him and apologize for my many criticisms of his policies and wrong attitudes toward his own people.
As citizens they do not have to be accountable to the leaders because the leaders wear the crown and uneasy is he who wears the crown,
If citizens do not understand certain things M/W say or try to say, at the end it is still the duty and responsibility of the M/W to bear with them educate them, promote positive values, cohesiveness and closeness with the citizens to forge a strong loyal team to build the nation.
Has M/W lived up to such expectations by the way they are suing people for lies which are only defined in his own vocabulary.
Robert, if you can believe in Asswipe Atobe's proven craven and despicable posts, then i guess there is nothing to even discuss. Now i know why true intellectuals have no wish to engage with the opposition parties and their rabid supporters, espacially here. There is no point for the wise to argue with fools because others will not be able to know the difference.
I wish you good luck and may you see the truth one day, and may that day be not a painful experience.
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I wish you good luck and may you see the truth one day
What truth?