Is there a better gov to run Singapore?
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Hmmm, care to quote that? I must have missed it.MM LKY had already set the ground for the SAF to interfere in politics, when he declared that the SAF should step in when a new Government is formed by any Alternative Party, and begin to use its mandate to draw on the National Reserves.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Raffles was the first to realise the potential for this city call Singapore, that's why he purchased it from Malaysia.If the success of Singapore is only due to LKY, then I suggest he goes over to Iraq, Afghanistan to help the people there. I think he won't last more than a year there.
Else ask him to lead Indonesia or Malaysia or Philippines, we see how long he last there.
When a country is small like Singapore, it's easier to micro manage. When investment pours in, it increases the well being of all the populace stratified in this small constrain. GDP increases substantially.
OMFG, this wanker is now trying to tell the sheep in this forum that the reason for Singapore success has got nothing to do with LKY which indirectly he is saying that the Malaysia actually give this piece of GOLD land to LKY just because his sir name is LEE. And after 40 years, Malaysia is trying to copy what Singapore is doing.M13, my advice to you is that, go find yourself a nice quiet little place to wank all you want, and please spare us with all that moaning and whining.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Hong Kong govt
above 60+ years old or is disabled, get welfare money every month
no gst
also one of 4 Asian Tiger economies
Quite a number of Asia richest stay there, and earned from thereYou are pretty right about that and majority of the people in HK are living in a flat which less than half the size of a 3rm HDB, while the rich are living in nice hill top villa.
I hope you are not going to tell us that YOUR GIRLFRIEND'S PARENTS are HK EN BLOC TYCOON...
:D
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Hmmm, care to quote that? I must have missed it.
This was said by MM LKY sometime back in 2006, and was also a subject discussed in another forum in ''littlespeck.com'' - which was also featured in a thread in this Speakers' Corner : ‘’Lee Kuan Yew warns of army intervention’’Lee Kuan Yew warns of army intervention
As last resort, if an opposition government plunders hard-earned reserves. Possible?
By Seah Chiang Nee., litterspeck.com
Sep 24, 2006
AS he ages in the midst of an undercurrent of political pressures, Lee Kuan Yew seems to become more concerned about the safety of Singapore's US120bil (RM454.4bil) reserves accumulated over four decades.
His worry is two-fold; firstly, the rising popularity of opposition that he said could result in 'freak' defeat for his ruling People's Action Party (PAP), and secondly, corrupt opposition leaders squandering the nation's wealth.
He had earlier warned that PAP must not take for granted that it will always win.
Lee had valid reasons to worry. There's a political wind blowing across the land and politics may be entering - helped by the Internet - a less predictable era.
In the May election, the PAP's popular vote fell from 75.3 to 66.6% with no sign of reversing.
If it erodes further, more Singaporeans will hop on to the (currently weak) opposition's bandwagon.
The new recruits could include the bright and honest, but also crooks and self-serving people with an eye on the nation's riches.
In an interview with a Harvard University professor last week he hinted that in case of a plunder - and the elected president could not or would not prevent it - then "in two or three years" the army would step in to stop it.
His talk of possible military intervention - no mention of coup - caused a stir among Singaporeans.
Ironically the warning came only three days before the military coup in Thailand.
Singapore is one of the richest countries when it comes to reserves per capita. Lee once promised to 'rise up from the grave' if future leaders lead it into chaos.
Before he resigned as PM in 1990, Lee created 'a second key' to safeguard the reserves, an elected presidency that could stop the Cabinet of the day from spending money it had not accumulated during its own five-year tenure.
No government could dig into funds earned by previous governments without approval from a public referendum.
But this is the first time Lee has spoken of 'military intervention' if the elected presidency was absent or captured by the opposition, to save the nation's billions.
Educated Singaporeans, however, have often discussed the prospect of a military coup here if PAP loses an election, not to protect national assets. Lee probably sees the two as connected.
In 1984 when the PAP suffered a 12.4% vote decline - a mini-crisis to him in those days - a small think-tank committee set up by the newspaper that I edited had discussed this possibility.
Lee had angrily accused young voters of being ungrateful when so many turned against a party that did 'so much for them'.
We discussed what would happen if something worse were to happen like losing an election: Would Lee stage a military coup to stay in power? Almost to a person, we dismissed it for several reasons.
Firstly, the United States, Singapore's powerful trading partner, would come down hard on it, foreign investors could dry up but more crucially, Singapore's army and people - unlike others - would strongly oppose it.
It would even split the PAP. In short Singapore could not survive the impact.
Besides, the full-time army is a small one. Singapore's frontline soldiers are overwhelmingly made up of 'reservists'.
This would have meant that if the country voted out the PAP, these soldiers - sons, brothers and husbands - were likely to have voted along with it, so a coup against the elected leaders was far-fetched.
The army here is vastly different from the Thais, Vietnamese, Filipinos and other coup-marked countries. Its value comes from its colonial British 'no-politics' traditions.
So how seriously are Singaporeans taking Lee's coup warning? Most dismiss it as next to impossible.
If it wasn't possible 20 years ago, it is even less so today as the society has become more sophisticated.
"It will be a sad day if it is attempted. One coup will lead to another and start a culture," said a businessman.
Besides any takeover general would probably enjoy power too much to want to return to the barracks."
Nothing could then prevent them from plundering the reserves themselves, the very thing Lee wanted to stop.
So far none of the other PAP leaders or rank-and-file has echoed Lee's sentiments, so it is far from being a party position. I don't think it was seriously discussed.
To put it into perspective, Lee did not condone a military takeover but probably mentioned it as a last option if everything else failed to stop a corrupt government.
Instead he advised Singaporeans to preserve the present political arrangement, which could also mean - to his critics - 'don't vote in an opposition' or "don't introduce a multi-party system."
In his interview with Prof Lawrence Summers, Lee said: "Once you break that, by military intervention, you have destroyed a system which works on the basis of who was voted into office," he said.
There are, however, some old-timers who believe Lee never says anything flippantly and that he must have given it much thought.
So where can an out-of-office PAP, assuming the scenario were to unfold, get the troops to grab power from the (corrupt) government other than the 'people's' army?
Singapore is a small island that doesn't take much to start a coup.
Imaginative Singaporeans believe the PAP may one day launch a highly paid Presidential Guard-type unit, while others say a battalion of Gurkha troops now used for security duties could be used.
Lee, however, insisted his goal was maintaining the present governance. "My ambition is not to preserve the PAP," he said. -
Originally posted by Aelop:
If you think there is one, please share with us.
Rome is not made in 1 day.Without 2nd team the chance to demonstrate and prove their ability,
I am afraid, your question cannot be answered in a fair and unbiased way by anyone.
It takes a lot of time for a team to prove themselves.
the pore took about 40 odd years to reach 1st world, on paper, at least.
Some bombastic ever said, the young team need time to grow and mature.
So, for a 2nd team to prove itself, a lot of time is needed for them to prove.
Now it has always been P4P. We can never know the answer until who knows when.
To get talent is easy. Just offer millions a year for the right candidate eg. top scholar, very good at study, and issue a piece of cert called citizenship to them and voila! you get a citizen to represent the pore. With this talent, he can be given the chance to prove. Give him say 10 years. Thus, to me, talent citizen is easy to get/create when they are attracted to come here. there are many ways to attract them.
Who builds the economy?
a few people?
MNCs?
Entreprenuers?
FTs?
Local talents?
Inventors like sim mong who?
The toilet cleaners clean the toilets several times every day, laborously, doing things no one else wants to do so that office workers need not hold their urge to urinate and die of some disease or bursting of their pipes.
The office workers work laborously so that the business can run and operate and the boss can continue to profit.
Salaries earned by workers is expensed into businesses of food , clothing and transport and entertainment, education, travel, medicals, financial investments etc..
Lucrative earnings from bosses are expensed into luxury cars and homes, even overpriced ones.
Tax comes from workers and bosses flows into the country coffers.
So, who are the engines of growth? Just a few 'good' men?
People are paid to do a job, they better do it. Else get sacked. No one owes anyone any credit.
HK also has some kind of concept similar to the pores.
HK also has thriving airport.
HK also has great seaport.
HK also has great tourism.
HK also has great economy.
HK also has great Mass transit.
HK also has great Shopping.
Many countries also let private organisers organise F1.
Many countries also let have great Casinos built by private investors.
Many countries also have great expressways : china, JB for examples.
Many countries also have great tall and modern buildings : Taipeh 101, Petronas for examples.
Many countries also has many many things that is found here.
What many countries do not have unfortunately is a geographic location shielded from tectonic plates that moves to create sunamis and earthquakes. This credit purely goes to the mudder nature. No one else. Lets Be clear.
So, what is the conclusion?
Vivala Democraci!
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Somehow, the other super staunch govt supporter with a blank in his nick did not appear at all in this thread
Anyway, trolls will always be trolls. They are pathetic creatures with no life, and seek some sort of comfort that they can win others (at the expense of being labelled a joke) because they are just a bunch of losers in their real life
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Rather than asking whether we can have a better government than PAP, how about asking whether we can have a BETTER PAP government without the Lee family's influence and control? I am starting to see this as the only practical way for Singapore to move forward. Give the Lee family $1 billion, thank them very much for their years of service to Singapore, and send them packing to Switzerland. Singapore is grateful for your past service, but the world has changed, is changing still, and your style of government is only holding us back.
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Originally posted by balance_else_complacent:
Rome is not made in 1 day.Without 2nd team the chance to demonstrate and prove their ability,
I am afraid, your question cannot be answered in a fair and unbiased way by anyone.
It takes a lot of time for a team to prove themselves.
the pore took about 40 odd years to reach 1st world, on paper, at least.
Some bombastic ever said, the young team need time to grow and mature.
So, for a 2nd team to prove itself, a lot of time is needed for them to prove.
Now it has always been P4P. We can never know the answer until who knows when.
To get talent is easy. Just offer millions a year for the right candidate eg. top scholar, very good at study, and issue a piece of cert called citizenship to them and voila! you get a citizen to represent the pore. With this talent, he can be given the chance to prove. Give him say 10 years. Thus, to me, talent citizen is easy to get/create when they are attracted to come here. there are many ways to attract them.
Who builds the economy?
a few people?
MNCs?
Entreprenuers?
FTs?
Local talents?
Inventors like sim mong who?
The toilet cleaners clean the toilets several times every day, laborously, doing things no one else wants to do so that office workers need not hold their urge to urinate and die of some disease or bursting of their pipes.
The office workers work laborously so that the business can run and operate and the boss can continue to profit.
Salaries earned by workers is expensed into businesses of food , clothing and transport and entertainment, education, travel, medicals, financial investments etc..
Lucrative earnings from bosses are expensed into luxury cars and homes, even overpriced ones.
Tax comes from workers and bosses flows into the country coffers.
So, who are the engines of growth? Just a few 'good' men?
People are paid to do a job, they better do it. Else get sacked. No one owes anyone any credit.
HK also has some kind of concept similar to the pores.
HK also has thriving airport.
HK also has great seaport.
HK also has great tourism.
HK also has great economy.
HK also has great Mass transit.
HK also has great Shopping.
Many countries also let private organisers organise F1.
Many countries also let have great Casinos built by private investors.
Many countries also have great expressways : china, JB for examples.
Many countries also have great tall and modern buildings : Taipeh 101, Petronas for examples.
Many countries also has many many things that is found here.
What many countries do not have unfortunately is a geographic location shielded from tectonic plates that moves to create sunamis and earthquakes. This credit purely goes to the mudder nature. No one else. Lets Be clear.
So, what is the conclusion?
Vivala Democraci!
May i know how many countries and cities are you using to compare to Singapore, an independent republic which is only about 700kmsq and ZERO natural resources? -
I have mixed feelings.
In my humble opinion, Singapore's past achievement of the last few decades is indeed remarkable.
I remember a BBC interview of a former Singaporean UN ambassador, I think his name is Kishore.
He said, he grew up without a flush toilet.
In the short span of one generation, Singapore totally transformed itself. From third world to first world. Sons are able to live a better life than their fathers.
Up to today this transformation is still happening, althought not as rapid, and there is general stability and peace. There is tranquility and progress.
In my opinion, discussing the performance of the Singapore government, people have to look at the overall picture.
Although some people now are agitating for more press freedom, political freedom, I have a mixed feeling about this.
I think people really dont care very much about press freedom, political freedom, etc. In the so-called Maslow Hirearchy of Needs, maybe it is very minuscule, a minor and tiny needs.
This same government which saps political freedom, press freedom, has as a result produce a very stable and sturdy environment. It is a sterile one, but this condition has brought enormous stability, in political, economic, and social spheres.
This created a peaceful and tranquil 'zone' and became a basis for progress and growth, in all areas.
Not only economically people's incomes have jumped by leaps and bounds, healthcare standards, educational standards, also improve dramatically, and still in good conditions today.
Today, a Singapore science student can enter science competition and be ranked near the top of the world.
Today, Singapore has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
Today, a racial riot which took place just 1-2 generation ago would be virtually unthinkable.
Judging from the results, which is not bad, I have a mixed feelings whenever I see critism of the Singapore goverment, in particular with regards to greater press freedom and political freedom.
I often ask myself and have a doubt, a real doubt, a nagging doubt in my mind, is this so-called greater freedom really in the interest of Singapore?
What has been the case so far in the past few decades?
I see it as something interlinked. This strong government which enforce political sterility has brought these results. There is no political freedom and press freedom. Sterile and peaceful conditions has created this enormous stability and enabled the government to persue meaningful and sustained long-term projects, which benefit everyone, young and old. This is much more meaningful for people's everyday lives than debates about greater political freedom, press freedom.
I am really not convinced.
In practical terms, for certain things, such as racial relations, I can see the benefit of a strong government and lack of political freedom. Certain policies like integrated housing, or uniform policy in schools, can be implemented due to this condition. Today because of this, we wont have any racial riots, and nor will our children or grandchildren.
In another example, CPF tweaking, this strong goverment can implement this measure, with minimum disruption or protests. Hopefully our children and grandchildren will have a better future, that when we get old we dont burden them too much. But I can see in other political environment, such policies will meet stiff resistance, get bogged down in parliament,or never get passed.
So I close with these questions:
In your opinion, has Singapore's remarkable achievement in many areas, has been separate from the fact that it has a strong government with little press freedom and political freedom?
In your opinion, has this trade-off been overall beneficial to Singapore? How much are you willing to change, and for what purpose, what benefit, what objective?
I think u must be wise when considering these questions.....
Meat Pao.
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Originally posted by Meat Pao:
I have mixed feelings.
In my humble opinion, Singapore's past achievement of the last few decades is indeed remarkable.
I remember a BBC interview of a former Singaporean UN ambassador, I think his name is Kishore.
He said, he grew up without a flush toilet.
In the short span of one generation, Singapore totally transformed itself. From third world to first world. Sons are able to live a better life than their fathers.
Up to today this transformation is still happening, althought not as rapid, and there is general stability and peace. There is tranquility and progress.
In my opinion, discussing the performance of the Singapore government, people have to look at the overall picture.
Although some people now are agitating for more press freedom, political freedom, I have a mixed feeling about this.
I think people really dont care very much about press freedom, political freedom, etc. In the so-called Maslow Hirearchy of Needs, maybe it is very minuscule, a minor and tiny needs.
This same government which saps political freedom, press freedom, has as a result produce a very stable and sturdy environment. It is a sterile one, but this condition has brought enormous stability, in political, economic, and social spheres.
This created a peaceful and tranquil 'zone' and became a basis for progress and growth, in all areas.
Not only economically people's incomes have jumped by leaps and bounds, healthcare standards, educational standards, also improve dramatically, and still in good conditions today.
Today, a Singapore science student can enter science competition and be ranked near the top of the world.
Today, Singapore has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
Today, a racial riot which took place just 1-2 generation ago would be virtually unthinkable.
Judging from the results, which is not bad, I have a mixed feelings whenever I see critism of the Singapore goverment, in particular with regards to greater press freedom and political freedom.
I often ask myself and have a doubt, a real doubt, a nagging doubt in my mind, is this so-called greater freedom really in the interest of Singapore?
What has been the case so far in the past few decades?
I see it as something interlinked. This strong government which enforce political sterility has brought these results. There is no political freedom and press freedom. Sterile and peaceful conditions has created this enormous stability and enabled the government to persue meaningful and sustained long-term projects, which benefit everyone, young and old. This is much more meaningful for people's everyday lives than debates about greater political freedom, press freedom.
I am really not convinced.
In practical terms, for certain things, such as racial relations, I can see the benefit of a strong government and lack of political freedom. Certain policies like integrated housing, or uniform policy in schools, can be implemented due to this condition. Today because of this, we wont have any racial riots, and nor will our children or grandchildren.
In another example, CPF tweaking, this strong goverment can implement this measure, with minimum disruption or protests. Hopefully our children and grandchildren will have a better future, that when we get old we dont burden them too much. But I can see in other political environment, such policies will meet stiff resistance, get bogged down in parliament,or never get passed.
So I close with these questions:
In your opinion, has Singapore's remarkable achievement in many areas, has been separate from the fact that it has a strong government with little press freedom and political freedom?
In your opinion, has this trade-off been overall beneficial to Singapore? How much are you willing to change, and for what purpose, what benefit, what objective?
I think u must be wise when considering these questions.....
Meat Pao.
Meat,
The Lee's formula of suppressing press and political freedom is common practice back in the tremulous era. Necessary evil much used by leaders of the past.
BUT, the leaders must know to roll with the times.
When they fail to do so, they become obsolete, and becomes a hindrance to progress.
Eventually, people will get tired and sick of their old man's way and seek to remove the piece of dead skin that clung stubbornly to their nose.
Times are a changing.
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Alternative government? With the likes of CSJ and WP candidates who vote for the PAP at elections? Try second life :)
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Alternative government? With the likes of CSJ and WP candidates who vote for the PAP at elections? Try second life :)
Aelop has pointed out earlier that he refer to other government(s) in the world, not Singapore opposition parties. -
Originally posted by Spartans:
Aelop has pointed out earlier that he refer to other government(s) in the world, not Singapore opposition parties.
You might want to give the question a shot instead of trying to be a kaypoh chee in this forum. -
Originally posted by Aelop:
You might want to give the question a shot instead of trying to be a kaypoh chee in this forum.
If I am a kaypoh chee, then you are a bastard with no parent. -
Originally posted by Spartans:
If I am a kaypoh chee, then you are a bastard with no parent.
at least my parents didnt give birth to a horny gay like you who prey on kids in the cyberspace using a gay name like Spartans. -
Originally posted by Aelop:
at least my parents didnt give birth to a horny gay like you who prey on kids in the cyberspace using a gay name like Spartans.
Two main errors.1) I am not a horny gay as you claimed. Where is your evidence? Liar
2) As I already mentioned, you are a bastard with no parent. Where did you come from?
I wonder why you always want to claim I am a gay. Are you hoping that I am one? Are you having a secret crush on me?
Omg so bloody disgusting. Stay away from me you pervertic closet gay. You will never ever get to steal my underwear to sniff.
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Originally posted by Spartans:
Two main errors.1) I am not a horny gay as you claimed. Where is your evidence? Liar
2) As I already mentioned, you are a bastard with no parent. Where did you come from?
Bloody gay trying to pretent to muscle man by calling himself SPARTANS....hahaha...
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Originally posted by Aelop:
Bloody gay trying to pretent to muscle man by calling himself SPARTANS....hahaha...
What is wrong with having a nick called Spartans? Does it offend you? If yes, it is your own bloody problem, not mine.Guess I am right. You must be thinking I am a muscle man and having pervertic fanaties of me.
Stay away from me you pervertic closet gay. I believe the true gay is You, Gazelle.
I din know you can be that pervertic. Omg. Do you even consider yourself as human? I guess not.
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Alternative government? With the likes of CSJ and WP candidates who vote for the PAP at elections? Try second life :)
With the likes of CSJ and WP candidates who vote for the PAP at elections ?This statement must surely take the cake for deluded comments from one living half his life at half a globe away in UK.
Whose second life ?
Ours , or Yours, or that of you Great Mentor ?
At the rate that this Country is being ruled - amidst the global events swirling beyond the control of a hapless and clueless son that is left to hold the fort while the Father does the running around - we are all not too far away from experiencing a second life before too long.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
With the likes of CSJ and WP candidates who vote for the PAP at elections ?This statement must surely take the cake for deluded comments from one living half his life at half a globe away in UK.
Whose second life ?
Ours , or Yours, or that of you Great Mentor ?
At the rate that this Country is being ruled - amidst the global events swirling beyond the control of a hapless and clueless son that is left to hold the fort while the Father does the running around - we are all not too far away from experiencing a second life before too long.
And you know better? You HAVE A CLUE? lol! what huge ego you have, asswipe atobe! lolololol!! Do go back to your asswiping,...oops forgot, your 2 fave asses are still in jail. But hang on, they will come out soon, then you can wipe all you want.
In the meantime, give me a buzz if you want my underwear for your disgusting underwear sniffing habits!
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Originally posted by Spartans:
What is wrong with having a nick called Spartans? Does it offend you? If yes, it is your own bloody problem, not mine.Guess I am right. You must be thinking I am a muscle man and having pervertic fanaties of me.
Stay away from me you pervertic closet gay. I believe the true gay is You, Gazelle.
I din know you can be that pervertic. Omg. Do you even consider yourself as human? I guess not.
There is nothing wrong being a gay you know. You should be proud to be one.
Spartans fits you perfectly. I am sure your BFs will agree with me.
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Originally posted by Aelop:
There is nothing wrong being a gay you know. You should be proud to be one.
Spartans fits you perfectly. I am sure your BFs will agree with me.
I know you are dying to for me to be your BF. But I wish to let you know that you have no chance cos I not a gay. Please dun be disappointed. So sadz. A gay bastard aka Aelop got rejected by me.hahahaha... told you already. Be more innovative in your insults.
Is this all you got? Oh man it is getting boring.
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Originally posted by Spartans:
I know you are dying to for me to be your BF. But I wish to let you know that you have no chance cos I not a gay. Please dun be disappointed. So sadz. A gay bastard aka Aelop got rejected by me.hahahaha... told you already. Be more innovative in your insults.
Is this all you got? Oh man it is getting boring.
Sorry DUDE, I have already told you long time ago that I have stop reading your sexual private messages and I am not interested in Gays.If you want to flirt with man and boys in this forum, please feel free to do so, but count me out of that.
OMFG, since when did Spartans become so aggressive and open about his sexual orientation in this forum. Must be Atobe lah...
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Originally posted by Aelop:
Sorry DUDE, I have already told you long time ago that I have stop reading your sexual private messages and I am not interested in Gays.If you want to flirt with man and boys in this forum, please feel free to do so, but count me out of that.
OMFG, since when did Spartans become so aggressive and open about his sexual orientation in this forum. Must be Atobe lah...
Evidence? Where is the evidence?
Hey boy, how many times do I need to ask you this?
You claimed that all people who used the nick Spartan are gays. Where is your evidence.
You claimed i sent you sexual PMs? Please show us the evidence. Everyone knows you are lying. So lousy.
Haizzz... a loser will always be a loser.
If this is what you have, it is getting too boring. Think I go and enjoy my lunch. Maybe I will be back after you show some improvement.
yawnz...
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Originally posted by Spartans:
Evidence? Where is the evidence?
Hey boy, how many times do I need to ask you this?
You claimed that all people who used the nick Spartan are gays. Where is your evidence.
You claimed i sent you sexual PMs? Please show us the evidence. Everyone knows you are lying. So lousy.
Haizzz... a loser will always be a loser.
If this is what you have, it is getting too boring. Think I go and enjoy my lunch. Maybe I will be back after you show some improvement.
yawnz...
Another fart from you, asshole? Not shy ah? What a disgusting fella you are!
Aleop, don't bother. This asshole is so full of shit, i for one am not interested to reading other shit from him. What he does in private is his own affair, such as his gay leanings.
Let him talk all the cock he wants, becasue simply - he is an asshole and knows nothing better than to fart and spread shit