Social Welfare Health costs
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Originally posted by fymk:
You are still trying to argue with me when you have no leg to stand on?
Don't even bother telling me to find out how polyclinics get their subsidies. Simple fact: Polyclinic doctors are paid an amount per month to function unlike private GPs. Simple fact 2: Private GPs pay their own rental, their own salaries and staff/operating costs. A simple assumption : Private GPs do not have large bulk discounts from medical or pharmaceutical companies because they are not big enough to profit from. The government releases tenders for supply and usually the cheapest gets in. So taking an average bill from a private GP doesn't really cut it for me if that is where you get your info from.
Go read out how much the overall direct patient subsidies are - and I quote - overall patient subsidies exceeded more than 1.6 billion and projected to exceed 2.2 billion by 2012. I don't see hundreds of billions of dollars. Those are totals.
I attached a government release for your reference. http://www.moh.gov.sg/mohcorp/uploadedFiles/Means-Testing/Healthcare%20We%20Can%20All%20Afford.pdf
For your claims of being highly qualified, you just don't seem to understand SIMPLE ENGLISH. Bogus qualifications? I repost again:-
As you mentioned - "If you want to post an opinion which generalises everything to defend the government's apparent lack of money , be prepared to defend it."
Fine. If you dispute my figures and methodology on where the money comes from, then please show to the man on the street:-
a. Where the 80% of subsidy for a high medical bill comes from for 26% of our population affected by cancer.
b. Where the 80% of subsidy for a high medical bill comes from for 26% of our population affected by heart disease.
c. Where the additional S$17 comes from for a patient who seeks outpatient treatment in govt clinics (S$8) as opposed to private ones whom charges an average S$25
I will make it simple for you. You don't have to pull data from medical statistics. Just focus the answer to one average salaried person whom has to pay S$300,000 for his medical expenditure and tell me where his subsidy comes from.
Or do you wish to return quietly to your rubbish bin?
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
For your claims of being highly qualified, you just don't seem to understand SIMPLE ENGLISH. Bogus qualifications? I repost again:-
As you mentioned - "If you want to post an opinion which generalises everything to defend the government's apparent lack of money , be prepared to defend it."
Fine. If you dispute my figures and methodology on where the money comes from, then please show to the man on the street:-
a. Where the 80% of subsidy for a high medical bill comes from for 26% of our population affected by cancer.
b. Where the 80% of subsidy for a high medical bill comes from for 26% of our population affected by heart disease.
c. Where the additional S$17 comes from for a patient who seeks outpatient treatment in govt clinics (S$8) as opposed to private ones whom charges an average S$25
I will make it simple for you. You don't have to pull data from medical statistics. Just focus the answer to one average salaried person whom has to pay S$300,000 for his medical expenditure and tell me where his subsidy comes from.
Or do you wish to return quietly to your rubbish bin?
Who is the one talking rubbish now?
Go refer to my previous post on how much the overall direct patient subsidies are - and I quote - overall patient subsidies exceeded more than 1.6 billion and projected to exceed 2.2 billion by 2012. I don't see hundreds of billions of dollars as per your quote.
Now justify your totals of hundred of billions before you ask me a vague question. Where did the 300k even come out from and how do you even define average salaried person?
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Originally posted by fymk:
Who is the one talking rubbish now?
Go refer to my previous post on how much the overall direct patient subsidies are - and I quote - overall patient subsidies exceeded more than 1.6 billion and projected to exceed 2.2 billion by 2012. I don't see hundreds of billions of dollars as per your quote.
Now justify your totals of hundred of billions before you ask me a vague question. Where did the 300k even come out from and how do you even define average salaried person?
I am glad you admit 'you don't see'. Go read my first and second post again then come back. Though i prefer you go back to your rubbish bin as i really have no wish to argue with fools.
And you have yet to answer me 'Where the subsidies come from'.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
I am glad you admit 'you don't see'. Go read my first and second post again then come back. Though i prefer you go back to your rubbish bin as i really have no wish to argue with fools.
And you have yet to answer me 'Where the subsidies come from'.
I suggest that you either amend the statements you made or you justify what you said.
I do believe that you are making a bigger fool out of yourself. You cannot give a general figure without an approximate estimate.
Go refer to my previous post on how much the overall direct patient subsidies are - and I quote - overall patient subsidies exceeded more than 1.6 billion and projected to exceed 2.2 billion by 2012. I don't see hundreds of billions of dollars as per your quote.
Now justify your totals of hundred of billions before you ask me a vague questions.
Your stats are also in doubt - where did you get 26% for cancer and heart disease from? Give me the reference website of where you get your statistics. Up to the challenge of showing me where your referencing point comes from?
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As referenced from National Cancer Center - the total number of people diagnosed with cancer are 38,447 between 1998 to 2002 (Ref: http://www.nccs.com.sg/pat/08_03.htm). The interim report for 2001 to 2005 only estimates the total of people diagnosed with cancer around 33978.
How on earth did you get an rate of 26% for cancer? If you used the Principal Causes of Death - you actually have to do this - in which the percentage of death caused by cancer is 26.5 in 2005 and 28.5% in 2006.
Total number of Deaths x 26% = number of deaths caused by cancer.
You cannot take it and times the current living population - that is inflating the cancer rate by ALOT more. No wonder you state a freakish number of 910,000 citizens.
Subsidies come from government for some categories of our population (how many percent of the population - I won't know) . And if you were any intelligent , my reference about overall direct patient subsidies paid by the government would have answered your question .You are just asking very vague questions with peppering to bait.
NOW JUSTIFY your overinflated and ridiculous statistical rates.
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Originally posted by fymk:
As referenced from National Cancer Center - the total number of people diagnosed with cancer are 38,447 between 1998 to 2002 (Ref: http://www.nccs.com.sg/pat/08_03.htm). The interim report for 2001 to 2005 only estimates the total of people diagnosed with cancer around 33978.
How on earth did you get an rate of 26% for cancer? If you used the Principal Causes of Death - you actually have to do this - in which the percentage of death caused by cancer is 26.5 in 2005 and 28.5% in 2006.
Total number of Deaths x 26% = number of deaths caused by cancer.
You cannot take it and times the current living population - that is inflating the cancer rate by ALOT more. No wonder you state a freakish number of 910,000 citizens.
Subsidies come from government for some categories of our population (how many percent of the population - I won't know) . And if you were any intelligent , my reference about overall direct patient subsidies paid by the government would have answered your question .You are just asking the obvious.
NOW JUSTIFY your overinflated and ridiculous statistical rates.
Goodboy. I am glad you listened to me and re-read my posts and study those links. " You don't see" is a dangerous trait for someone who claims to work in the medical industry.
"Subsidies come from government for some categories of our population (how many percent of the population - I won't know)" - just won't cut it. How could you, a singaporean, not KNOW where the subsidies comes from? Either you are not a singaporean or don't wish to admit the truth.
I am not here to give you a free education. Go work it out yourself if you dispute my extrapolation. I have wasted enough time as it is with you.
Here's something to help you. After that, do crawl back into your rubbish bin. Maths made simple:-
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Aiyoh Deerhunter, want to use clone also act properly lah.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
Goodboy. I am glad you listened to me and re-read my posts and study those links. " You don't see" is a dangerous trait for someone who claims to work in the medical industry.
"Subsidies come from government for some categories of our population (how many percent of the population - I won't know)" - just won't cut it. How could you, a singaporean, not KNOW where the subsidies comes from? Either you are not a singaporean or don't wish to admit the truth.
I am not here to give you a free education. Go work it out yourself if you dispute my extrapolation. I have wasted enough time as it is with you.
Here's something to help you. After that, do crawl back into your rubbish bin. Maths made simple:-
LOL take your own advice about being Singaporean , the rubbish bin and the mathematics involved.
I said I won't know what is the percentage of the population would use public beds not private beds . Some people could go to private hospitals and private doctors. Care to give an estimate percentage of the population that gets admitted into the hospital currently in Singapore ? The rates are published but how many people in the whole population use public beds? That means no counting of duplicate admissions of the same person and give a separation between each person using a publicly subsidised beds. Some people don't even need hospital admissions. Some would need repeat admissions - but even MOH doesn't give figures on repeat admissions.
Usually they count based on rate of admissions/discharges ,episodes and length of stay in the hospital or the number of attendances/visits in a polyclinic . Check your regular MOH statistics.
I am not here to give you an education either but it seems that you need one badly when it comes to the healthcare system statistics. Would it hurt so much to say that your stats are overinflated and wrong because you used the wrong calculation methods ? Nope , you choose to go on the emotional defensive.
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You have proven nothing to justify that the government has done what is necessary to fund the healthcare system or even helping those who cannot afford the care . Instead you have been proven to overinflate statistics when they should not be inflated.
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Deerhunter, this forum doesn't care whether you support PAP or SDP or WP or any other opposition, or whether you are Gazelle or clones a not. But as long as you maintain your rudeness, you are not welcomed at all. The same goes even in the society outside.
Even if you are constantly being the vent for rude people outside, you are a plain loser by choosing to hide behind an online identity to throw rude remarks to others.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
It seems you have learnt a lot on how forum works. And that it is ok for others to insult me, but my responses to their babble is aggravation. Well done.
Think of this. When you move to a new workplace, and the old-timers there insult you. Would you insult them back?
If others insult you, do you need to showcase your talent in insults by retorting back? Does insulting others make you any more justified?
Don't behave like a kindergarten kid where one kid would complain that because others did such and such a thing, then it is right for you to do it too.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Think of this. When you move to a new workplace, and the old-timers there insult you. Would you insult them back?
If others insult you, do you need to showcase your talent in insults by retorting back? Does insulting others make you any more justified?
Don't behave like a kindergarten kid where one kid would complain that because others did such and such a thing, then it is right for you to do it too.
Is this a workplace? So who defines and determines rudeness? You? Who is the welcoming committee here? You? Who is the one who detemine anything here at all other than moderators? You?Lol!
Go on and give me a bad name as you espacially wish. The facts are already written and posted here. Who is the pathetic fool, i leave to others to consider. I had said all i wanted to say, and in the absence of further debate ( other than from the pathetic fool) i will leave it as it is.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
Is this a workplace? So who defines and determines rudeness? You? Who is the welcoming committee here? You? Who is the one who detemine anything here at all other than moderators? You?Lol!
Go on and give me a bad name as you espacially wish. The facts are already written and posted here. Who is the pathetic fool, i leave to others to consider. I had said all i wanted to say, and in the absence of further debate ( other than from the pathetic fool) i will leave it as it is.
It's fine if you cannot understand what's an analogy. I didn't expect you to understand what's that anyway
It's also fine if you want to continue to behave like a kid. You have nothing to lose anyway since you would only hide behind an online identity.
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Originally posted by eagle:
It's fine if you cannot understand what's an analogy. I didn't expect you to understand what's that anyway
It's also fine if you want to continue to behave like a kid. You have nothing to lose anyway since you would only hide behind an online identity.
He can say whatever he wants. I already proven that his statistics are overinflated and he wants to call me names. That is just a person who cannot take criticism.
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Originally posted by fymk:
He can say whatever he wants. I already proven that his statistics are overinflated and he wants to call me names. That is just a person who cannot take criticism.
wow i think you're too kind. i would consider him/her a 3rd grade con artist who turns ugly when exposed.
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getting quite sian of such a person who cannot even accept other ppl's arguments den anyhow call ppl return to rubbish bin.. zzz..
cant even hold an argument properly den resort to insults and personal attacks..
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Some people just cannot accept being corrected. They rather regard all positive criticisms as rubbish.
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Originally posted by fymk:
He can say whatever he wants. I already proven that his statistics are overinflated and he wants to call me names. That is just a person who cannot take criticism.
Yours was hardly a criticism, but a simple clarification of details that a DeerHunter's anxiety just cannot grasp.We should not blame the poor chap for being so sensitive that he becomes so defensive and feel threatened by the 'audience' that he constantly attempt to impress.
It is quite clear that a DeerHunter cannot handle numbers, as the deers and gazelles are just to quick for him to keep track of, neither is he good at counting sheep, as they also pull the ''wool over his eyes'' to make him sleep in double quick time.
What is a DeerHunter good at when there is no deer in Singapore for him to hunt ?
We depend on him to help his God Father - the Great Mentor Shepherd - to develop a $27 Billion China-Singapore Trade - 'BOTH WAYS', so that it will make more surplus to add onto the $300 Billion that his God Father had suddenly become so willing to reveal to the entire World.
We can depend on a DeerHunter to help his God Father to explain to the Son the need to inform the world, when the Son had said - not so long ago - that it was not good for everyone to know how big is our savings, as it will only let those who will challenge us to know how deep is the Singapore pocket
Leave it to the DeerHunter to bring home the ''bacon'' when he finally can find a deer - as by the time he succeeds, we can probably roast a Gazelle sprinkled with diced mushrooms, some Bear slop, liver from a noisy lion, and fried over a 'point blank' fire in a $27 garbage bin.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Yours was hardly a criticism, but a simple clarification of details that a DeerHunter's anxiety just cannot grasp.We should not blame the poor chap for being so sensitive that he becomes so defensive and feel threatened by the 'audience' that he constantly attempt to impress.
It is quite clear that a DeerHunter cannot handle numbers, as the deers and gazelles are just to quick for him to keep track of, neither is he good at counting sheep, as they also pull the ''wool over his eyes'' to make him sleep in double quick time.
What is a DeerHunter good at when there is no deer in Singapore for him to hunt ?
We depend on him to help his God Father - the Great Mentor Shepherd - to develop a $27 Billion China-Singapore Trade - 'BOTH WAYS', so that it will make more surplus to add onto the $300 Billion that his God Father had suddenly become so willing to reveal to the entire World.
We can depend on a DeerHunter to help his God Father to explain to the Son the need to inform the world, when the Son had said - not so long ago - that it was not good for everyone to know how big is our savings, as it will only let those who will challenge us to know how deep is the Singapore pocket
Leave it to the DeerHunter to bring home the ''bacon'' when he finally can find a deer - as by the time he succeeds, we can probably roast a Gazelle sprinkled with diced mushrooms, some Bear slop, liver from a noisy lion, and fried over a 'point blank' fire in a $27 garbage bin.
That's all you can say? Rubbish again?
Not unexpected.
Have fun in your rubbish bin.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
That's all you can say? Rubbish again?
Not unexpected.
Have fun in your rubbish bin.
Would you care to justify your statistics on how you estimated 910,000 citizens will get cancer out of 3.5 million people or would you just like to be another pot calling the kettle black?
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The government did show an expenditure of $1.6 billion for the year ended 2006 as claimed by the Elmer Fudd's link. (Deer Hunter weminds me of Elmer Fudd hunting for wabbits).
But the government failed to show the profits from hospitals, the $1.6 billion are all transfers for operating expenditure. What happened to the profits from Hospital Beds, Surgeries, Test and A&E?
According to SGH, their patient days is around 400,888, which would rake in approximately $50 million for SGH alone. The surgeries performed in SGH alone is around 70,000, with an approximated cost of $5,000 per surgery, it would rake in approximately $350 million for SGH. SGH alone would make roughly around $400 million to 500 million. What about the other hospitals?
http://www.mof.gov.sg/budget_2008/revenue_expenditure/attachment/MOH_EE2008.pdf
http://www.sgh.com.sg/NR/rdonlyres/B0073277-5DD2-4B0E-B801-5805CAC4B264/172/AR_2003.pdf
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Don't forget to add the lucrative private class beds in the public hospitals. How much do they rake in and how much profit is left after operating costs is deducted? And where does the money flow to from thereon?
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Originally posted by fymk:
Don't forget to add the lucrative private class beds in the public hospitals. How much do they rake in and how much profit is left after operating costs is deducted? And where does the money flow to from thereon?
These "public" hospitals don't provide any financial statements to enlighten the public on the source and expenditure on funds. It's all secretive and hush hush, it's as if they have something to hide from public scrutiny.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
That's all you can say? Rubbish again?
Not unexpected.
Have fun in your rubbish bin.
Hahahaha - as in the cynical laughter from your God Father - the Great Mentor Shepherd...
How did you so quickly recognise rubbish, and identify it with such familiarity ?
Surely, the Sesame Street Green Monster had done a perfect job teaching a new tenant the art of rubbish disguise to be used in DeerHunting ?
It is cheap at $27 a Bin, and far cheaper then your $27 Billion assumption for the China-Singapore Trade - BOTH WAYS..!!!
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
These "public" hospitals don't provide any financial statements to enlighten the public on the source and expenditure on funds. It's all secretive and hush hush, it's as if they have something to hide from public scrutiny.
Deerhunter has to learn that for himself to defend his statement of
"Many here believe that our govt hoards money or they are all very rich. The truth is that whatever that is in our treasury is OUR money. It composes of our CPF savings as well as our Nation's tax revenues, including budgets surpluses, due to conservative spending. The govt is not rich. They are only caretakers of our money. And as such, they have to be very very careful with it."
One should actually also ask why the ministers get paid so much like MNC CEOs when they are only caretakers of such a small country - even the president of united states gets paid less than our precious ministers.