Social Welfare Health costs
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Isn't he essentially hoarding the work of the Prime Minister ?His dear son is suppose to be leading the country, NOT HIM.
Why do we need a Prime Minister for ? Teach me how to sing majulah singapura issit ?
If he thinks his son is not good enough to take over his position, then give it to someone else who CAN.
And to leave his wife during this critical time... dude.. is Russia or Middle East going anywhere soon ? Bilateral ties ? What are the benefits ?
If those Russian and Middle Eastern leaders hears of him abandoning his dying wife to go have tea with them... what do you think they will think of your dear Mr LKY ???
Russia, like other oil rich middle east countries, are nations which are more recession proof than others during the time of high energy prices. What Singapore government is trying to do is to diversify our risk so that during time of recession, our country will still have foreign investments coming into Singapore, because foreign investment create jobs.Singapore and GCC in the mist of concluding a free trade agreement, while recently we have seen an influx of big spending Russian tourists coming to singapore for holiday and seek medical cares.
Beside that, Singapore government is also trying to encourage Russia to engage East Asia, because a strong and stable Asia will benefit Singapore. I am sure the business delegate who joined LKY for this trip will also have their own agenda.
If I am a businessman from Russia, I will feel honored to be able to host LKY at my country and listen to what he has to say about my country and the region. I will also admire him for making time to attend this event which was planned way before his wife is sick and the court case with Dr. Chee. Plus I will also admire the fitness of this 85 year old man, his quick thinking and knowledge.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Excuse me hor.
We the people.. also don mind paying for the best.
But are we really getting the best of the best anot ?
We pay our ministers first world pay.
But is our country really first world yet ? Are we getting close yet ?
Dude.. you really need to go travel around the world a bit more.
See with yourself.. talk to the people who lives in 1st world countries.
Then you come tell me .. are our ministers worth the money anot lah.
Which country do you want me to visit?US? - under table money for lobby groups to push your agendas?
China - new year presents - gold or silver only please?
Switzerland - US$100,000 to the bank manager and you know full financial details of your competitor?
Saudi Arabia - baksheesh to everyone in the civil service to clear red tape?
Need i write more? If indeed you are a world traveller as you want others to think you are, then you must either be very lucky to avoid such payments or you never had succeeded in your ventures abroad.
Corruption is common. But capability is uncommon. It is a virtue worth it's price in gold. Would you dare, with facts, claim MM LKY and the team he taught is incapable to administer a country and its economy?
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
Corruption is common. But capability is uncommon. It is a virtue worth it's price in gold.
Nice!
Would you dare, with facts, claim MM LKY and the team he taught is incapable to administer a country and its economy?
Seriously i think we must credit LKY for his past contributions. No matter what we guys believe he is doing now, we must admit the fact that our nation's prosperity has more or less got to do with him.
His team, i don't wish to commend.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
Which country do you want me to visit?US? - under table money for lobby groups to push your agendas?
China - new year presents - gold or silver only please?
Switzerland - US$100,000 to the bank manager and you know full financial details of your competitor?
Saudi Arabia - baksheesh to everyone in the civil service to clear red tape?
Need i write more? If indeed you are a world traveller as you want others to think you are, then you must either be very lucky to avoid such payments or you never had succeeded in your ventures abroad.
Corruption is common. But capability is uncommon. It is a virtue worth it's price in gold. Would you dare, with facts, claim MM LKY and the team he taught is incapable to administer a country and its economy?
If the equivalent salary of a Minister is $300,000, you pay him $3 million a year. The Minister don't need to be corrupt anymore, the salary itself is inclusive of all the corruption he will accept. It's even better than corruption, if a Minister is corrupt once a year, he earns afew millions, but now he earns an extra $2.7 million a year for 5 years.
If a Minister is paid $300,000 and engages in corruption, he runs the risk of being caught and brought to justice.
A Minister being paid $3 million runs not risk of being caught for corruption, because the corruption money inclusive in his salary is legalised.
With a salary inclusive of corruption, who would want to be corrupt.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
If the equivalent salary of a Minister is $300,000, you pay him $3 million a year. The Minister don't need to be corrupt anymore, the salary itself is inclusive of all the corruption he will accept. It's even better than corruption, if a Minister is corrupt once a year, he earns afew millions, but now he earns an extra $2.7 million a year for 5 years.
If a Minister is paid $300,000 and engages in corruption, he runs the risk of being caught and brought to justice.
A Minister being paid $3 million runs not risk of being caught for corruption, because the corruption money inclusive in his salary is legalised.
With a salary inclusive of corruption, who would want to be corrupt.
What you said do make sense and there are points that i agree with you. If a minsiter is being paid $3 million dollars he will not have the need to be corrupted.
However, there are some points that i don't disagree.
Having an annual salary of $3 million removes the needs to corrupt, but that doesn't mean that the person recieving the salary is corrupted
Yes i do understand that Mr Lee is recieving a pay which is 5 times higher than President Bush, however, we should only use other country's standard as a comparision rather than following it blindly. If Mr Lee is capable of bringing sg to greater heights, i believe he deserve his pay. Rather than copying, we should create a standard for ourselves and award civil servants according to their contributions.
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Who do you think is the smartest of them all?
George Bush, Lee Kwan Yew, Tony Blair, John Howard, Dr Chee?
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
What you said do make sense and there are points that i agree with you. If a minsiter is being paid $3 million dollars he will not have the need to be corrupted.
However, there are some points that i don't disagree.
Having an annual salary of $3 million removes the needs to corrupt, but that doesn't mean that the person recieving the salary is corrupted
Yes i do understand that Mr Lee is recieving a pay which is 5 times higher than President Bush, however, we should only use other country's standard as a comparision rather than following it blindly. If Mr Lee is capable of bringing sg to greater heights, i believe he deserve his pay. Rather than copying, we should create a standard for ourselves and award civil servants according to their contributions.
What makes you think that the person receiving the exhorbitant salary is not corrupted? Just because it's passed through parliament by all the accused? If say I take over the post of Prime Minister, I decide to increase my salary and my Ministers' salary to $50 million a year and $25 million a year each. I suppose it gives credibility that the house is controlled by me. Does the passing of bill and the ascension by the MIW appointed President make it legal?Bring Singapore to greater heights? I say bring us to their so called Swiss standard of living first before they even start claiming credit and increasing salary. We don't even have a chicken yet and they are already eating the chicken. Alot like putting the carriage before the horse.
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Originally posted by � 顺 全:
Who do you think is the smartest of them all?
George Bush, Lee Kwan Yew, Tony Blair, John Howard, Dr Chee?
George Bush definitely, he started Iraq war and made bundles for himself.
The old man is just a tyrant, exploiting hapless and stupid citizens much like the Myanmese junta.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
George Bush definitely, he started Iraq war and made bundles for himself.
The old man is just a tyrant, exploiting hapless and stupid citizens much like the Myanmese junta.
So now you know why American president are paid so little huh. -
Originally posted by crimsontactics:
What you said do make sense and there are points that i agree with you. If a minsiter is being paid $3 million dollars he will not have the need to be corrupted.
However, there are some points that i don't disagree.
Having an annual salary of $3 million removes the needs to corrupt, but that doesn't mean that the person recieving the salary is corrupted
Yes i do understand that Mr Lee is recieving a pay which is 5 times higher than President Bush, however, we should only use other country's standard as a comparision rather than following it blindly. If Mr Lee is capable of bringing sg to greater heights, i believe he deserve his pay. Rather than copying, we should create a standard for ourselves and award civil servants according to their contributions.
Another new account... now this one writes like it comes straight from youngpap.blogspot.com.
LOL, how obvious can people get?
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Originally posted by � 顺 全:
So now you know why American president are paid so little huh.
Ermm....All the leaders in the World are paid little compared to Singapore Prime Ministers, President and other Ministers.
I suppose all the world leaders are the same.
Singapore leaders are unlike some world leaders, they use their influence to further their own personal gain. So don't give me the crap about how clean those white fleece are, they are tainted by blood from Singaporeans.
There is not a country in the world with salaries paid to PM, MM (there is no comparison, none in the world), SM (no comparison, as there are none in the world), President and Other Ministers that could rival ours.
Maybe you can show us which world leaders has cabinet that are paid by the few millions?
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Another new account... now this one writes like it comes straight from youngpap.blogspot.com.
LOL, how obvious can people get?
It's the same person lar, it's Gazelle, the over enthusiastic sycophant. -
Corruption is enforced by law, not by the enticement of money; money is the the impetus for corruption in the first place.
How ironic this P4P administration be?
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
What makes you think that the person receiving the exhorbitant salary is not corrupted? Just because it's passed through parliament by all the accused? If say I take over the post of Prime Minister, I decide to increase my salary and my Ministers' salary to $50 million a year and $25 million a year each. I suppose it gives credibility that the house is controlled by me. Does the passing of bill and the ascension by the MIW appointed President make it legal?Bring Singapore to greater heights? I say bring us to their so called Swiss standard of living first before they even start claiming credit and increasing salary. We don't even have a chicken yet and they are already eating the chicken. Alot like putting the carriage before the horse.
Points that you made,
~What makes you think that the person receiving the exhorbitant salary is not corrupted?
I am in no position to say whether that person is corrupted or not. I also believe that corruption exists in every nation in various levels. However, with the fact Singapore is ranked the least corrupted country in Asia and one of the top ten least corrupted countries in the world by Transparency International, i have no choice but to have to believe that he is corruption-free.
You can google TI up.
~If say I take over the post of Prime Minister, I decide to increase my salary and my Ministers' salary to $50 million a year and $25 million a year each.
Firstly, like what i stated, it is dependant in that minster's contribution. If he is able to help our country to become more prosperious, i don't think why the people would not want to credit him with such a pay rise.
Secondly, we have to take into consideration that an average pay of a civil servant is usually lower but more secure as compared to one from a private sector, so by using the pay rise example you are giving me, i am sure that it is nearly impossible as the general public would be damn unhappy and would definetly result in asking him to resign.
~Bring Singapore to greater heights? I say bring us to their so called Swiss standard of living first before they even start claiming credit and increasing salary.
While you do have a home -run on this one. But i hope you would factor in the fact that Singapore standard of living has improved alot thoughout these years.
~We don't even have a chicken yet and they are already eating the chicken. Alot like putting the carriage before the horse.
That will boils down to how you define the chicken. The carriage part should be refering to the Siwss standard i guess?
Sry for long post
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Another new account... now this one writes like it comes straight from youngpap.blogspot.com.
LOL, how obvious can people get?
While I've read this thread up and found out about Gazelle and TheDeerHunter stuff you guys have been talking about.
I do understand why you suspect me of being him and i do not have any evidence to prove that i am not him.
You can only take my assurance that i am not, in any way, related to him or is him personally. I joined this forum 3 days ago and my first post was on the possiblity of a massacre in school in the chit-chat section.
I am neither a PAP supporter nor a SDP/WP/SDA supporter. I just take a neutral stand and view ongoing events from the point of a citizen.
Hope this will clear things up
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Corruption is a disease of society by those who hold power. There is very little chance of it being exposed, and those that do get exposed are only the tip of the iceburgs all around the world.
Corruption is only possible because there is a need to be fulfilled by the one accepting the bribe. And such needs are basically in monetary terms. In order to battle corruption honestly, we must eradicate such longings. Raising the salaries of our ministers are one of the ways. With higher salaries, they have no need to be bribed by others.
Their high salaries are not only to prevent corruption, but to also get the best of our fellow countrymen to serve. How many times have we, private individuals, believed that we should be paid more for the things we do in our jobs? More often than not, we don't get paid as much as we think we do, thus we leave the company and seek better pastures.
So too,will our best and brightest leave the civil service. MM LKY's old guards had already passed on. He is the last one left to ensure their legacy of capability in administration lives on. They were the truly selfless ones, born of a time when needs were little, unlike today's generation of instant need gratification. Ministers are also human beings, living with realities of life.
I am aware that the ministerial salaries are an emotive issue, but it is only an unprecedented way to fight corruption, endemic around the world and is tangibly seen in almost every government of the world as well as getting the best, irregardless of what social background he comes from, to serve our People.
Let's give it a try and a chance to succeed, measured by the uplifting of our lives if it would work. If not, it is still never too late to change.
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governing singapore is never going to be easy with its no resources and limited people ....thus we need to have the best government who r dedicated and capable to run it......thus the high salaries to ensure the ministers' hearts r with the country's hopes and future. Normally the term has to that of at least 4 yrs or more to see the results of the policies in effect by these leaders...... no doublt singapore leaders may not endear themselves to some pple here, but at least the country as a whole has come a long way from before. Take note that a yes government may not even live to its end of term, not to mention for decades.....
to me, singapore government adopts more of a top down approach to bring the country forward if ever there is such a term for politics....... they look into the macro view first, solving problems from the top, that from country, to economy, to sectors, to industries, to companies, to family households, and finally to the individual himself.
it is a filtering down of benefits from policies developed by our leaders to hopefully benefit everyone. Thus with industrailization and inflows of huge investments from global corporations, the economy will spin off, leading to supporting industries like construction, real estate, finance, etc, There will be filtering down of benefits to the working man, who will be rewarded by money, company welfare perks, etc due to profitability. Of cos, then it will filter down to his family, affordability of housing, education, medical etc., right down even to the single person from the day, he was born into singapore citizenship.
On the other end, if we have a government who adopts a bottom up approach to address the people's needs first like medical, education, or even food, where are the money to fund all these going to come from??? In no time, this leaders will not last for long, the pple has no jobs, no house, no money except to live on the empty promises made by these politicians who will lie about anything to get into power and get get their money back many folds through corrupted means.
thus we cant have a government who meets every need or want of its pple. Something has to give, if u want freedom to express, at least be reasonable to back up with constructive feedback coupled with responsilbity and not to incite riots or demonstations which all these can bring down singapore in less than mths.
In fact, singapore has opened up with change of times n leadership, it is prepared to listen to its pple, and its leaders have started to share some of the money directly with the citizens through cash and also through lower corporate and personal income tax through these recent yrs. Though the critics may say that the government is taxing higher through gst increase all that, but think, isnt this a fair way to finance the budget through consumer spending than taxing everyone indiscriminately through a higher personal income tax at the end of the year... ..mind u this, there r many developed countries with a very high tax rate for its pple, not discriminating much whether they r high, middle or low income earners, to finance its huge annual budget requirements which includes giving dole to its unemployeds, who then uses it to travel to a cheaper country.
singapore is an accidental country. But its progress has been less than accidental...... With the strong leadership of our capable, selfless. dedicated team, we can go further beyond, with yr confidence, support and belief. Nothing is left to chance, and we will continue to improve, with or without its critics..........so hop onboard!
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Points that you made,
~What makes you think that the person receiving the exhorbitant salary is not corrupted?
I am in no position to say whether that person is corrupted or not. I also believe that corruption exists in every nation in various levels. However, with the fact Singapore is ranked the least corrupted country in Asia and one of the top ten least corrupted countries in the world by Transparency International, i have no choice but to have to believe that he is corruption-free.
You can google TI up.
~If say I take over the post of Prime Minister, I decide to increase my salary and my Ministers' salary to $50 million a year and $25 million a year each.
Firstly, like what i stated, it is dependant in that minster's contribution. If he is able to help our country to become more prosperious, i don't think why the people would not want to credit him with such a pay rise.
Secondly, we have to take into consideration that an average pay of a civil servant is usually lower but more secure as compared to one from a private sector, so by using the pay rise example you are giving me, i am sure that it is nearly impossible as the general public would be damn unhappy and would definetly result in asking him to resign.
~Bring Singapore to greater heights? I say bring us to their so called Swiss standard of living first before they even start claiming credit and increasing salary.
While you do have a home -run on this one. But i hope you would factor in the fact that Singapore standard of living has improved alot thoughout these years.
~We don't even have a chicken yet and they are already eating the chicken. Alot like putting the carriage before the horse.
That will boils down to how you define the chicken. The carriage part should be refering to the Siwss standard i guess?
Sry for long post
Points that you made,
I am in no position to say whether that person is corrupted or not. I also believe that corruption exists in every nation in various levels. However, with the fact Singapore is ranked the least corrupted country in Asia and one of the top ten least corrupted countries in the world by Transparency International, i have no choice but to have to believe that he is corruption-free.
You can google TI up.
First of all the Transparency International Index is not a yardstick of corruption in the government, the index is a measurement for the country as a whole (e.g. businesses, the people, etc). What governs all these corruption? CPIB have laws to prosecute people who are corrupt, law is the overall definining authority in corruption. But what the PM has done is, say a buyer in a company is corrupt, he is paying this buyer more money so that this buyer will not engage in corrupt activities; the main policy is wrong. Like I said, you do not give more money to a corrupt person to prevent corruption. If a person is greedy, the amount of excess money you pay is irrelevant, laws are what binds him to the straight and narrow.
Also, if you look at the scale of corruption free index, Singapore is ranked 4th after Denmark, Finland and New Zealand. Are the Prime Ministers and the equivalent Ministers in these countries paid in the millions like their Singaporean counterparts?
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Firstly, like what i stated, it is dependant in that minster's contribution. If he is able to help our country to become more prosperious, i don't think why the people would not want to credit him with such a pay rise.
Secondly, we have to take into consideration that an average pay of a civil servant is usually lower but more secure as compared to one from a private sector, so by using the pay rise example you are giving me, i am sure that it is nearly impossible as the general public would be damn unhappy and would definetly result in asking him to resign.
Like I said before, show us the results first before even exploiting the commoners. Have we reached the Swiss Standard of living? How much are the leaders paid in Switzerland?
While you do have a home -run on this one. But i hope you would factor in the fact that Singapore standard of living has improved alot thoughout these years.
So have the standard of living for Korean, Taiwanese and Hong Kongers, but are their Ministers paid in the millions?
That will boils down to how you define the chicken. The carriage part should be refering to the Siwss standard i guess?
If you think we have already arrrived, I guess it's just self delusional again. Old folks scavenging in the streets for cardboard boxes and aluminium cans; old folks not being able to afford medical treatment.
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Originally posted by maurizio13:
Firstly, like what i stated, it is dependant in that minster's contribution. If he is able to help our country to become more prosperious, i don't think why the people would not want to credit him with such a pay rise.
Secondly, we have to take into consideration that an average pay of a civil servant is usually lower but more secure as compared to one from a private sector, so by using the pay rise example you are giving me, i am sure that it is nearly impossible as the general public would be damn unhappy and would definetly result in asking him to resign.
Like I said before, show us the results first before even exploiting the commoners. Have we reached the Swiss Standard of living? How much are the leaders paid in Switzerland?
While you do have a home -run on this one. But i hope you would factor in the fact that Singapore standard of living has improved alot thoughout these years.
So have the standard of living for Korean, Taiwanese and Hong Kongers, but are their Ministers paid in the millions?
That will boils down to how you define the chicken. The carriage part should be refering to the Siwss standard i guess?
If you think we have already arrrived, I guess it's just self delusional again. Old folks scavenging in the streets for cardboard boxes and aluminium cans; old folks not being able to afford medical treatment.
Like I said before, show us the results first before even exploiting the commoners. Have we reached the Swiss Standard of living? How much are the leaders paid in Switzerland?What is Swiss standards? - A rolls royce in every household?
So have the standard of living for Korean, Taiwanese and Hong Kongers, but are their Ministers paid in the millions?
Why don't you ask them for a full disclosure of their assets and see where they get their additional money from besides their paltry pay?
If you think we have already arrrived, I guess it's just self delusional again. Old folks scavenging in the streets for cardboard boxes and aluminium cans; old folks not being able to afford medical treatment.
I doubt if we had arrived, but its almost there. I personally would like to give more to help to these old folks, but most of them had already withdrawn their min. sum in CPF, probably spent it in China, and now live on govt welfare of est.$300. But then i personally don't have that large a fund to help all. Would you like to suggest 10% GST to your MP tonight? It would certainly help.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
. I personally would like to give more to help to these old folks, but most of them had already withdrawn their min. sum in CPF, probably spent it in China, and now live on govt welfare of est.$300. But then i personally don't have that large a fund to help all. Would you like to suggest 10% GST to your MP tonight? It would certainly help.
I believe the government will only see the full benefit of the recent 2% GST hike when both IRs are up and running -
Maurizio i'll just copy and paste ur points into this post as quoting it requires lot of space. Hope you understand :)
Ok back to topic
~First of all the Transparency International Index is not a yardstick of corruption in the government, the index is a measurement for the country as a whole (e.g. businesses, the people, etc).
True. But you must understand this, if the leader of the country would be corrupted, wouldn't his assistances be corrupted too? And if they are corrupted wouldn't that bring corruption all the way down the hierachy, thus destroying the country's reputation?
Corruption is a snowball effect. The source is usually from the higher ranking and, as even the higher ranking is corrupted, other lower ranking officials will feel safer follow. This will soon flow into the public and private sector as people finds out that it is safer and profitable to be corrupted. Examples of such cases can be seen in most Asean countries.
There was this time when i went to chiang mai and brought this painting. I checked with the authorities and they say its legal to bring this back to sg. However at the airport, i was stopped by a guard who said its illegal. Guess what! I gave him 400 bhat and he immediately ASSISTED me pass the custom. If even the national security is corrupted, you could expect the same from the top.
However, will u experience such a thing i SG? I guess we people would even be afraid to bride the police. Thats how clean SG is, and that can be used to show that the government is somewhat corruption-free. Despite what i've said, i still believe that corruption still do exist in SG, just at a small extend.
~Like I said, you do not give more money to a corrupt person to prevent corruption. If a person is greedy, the amount of excess money you pay is irrelevant, laws are what binds him to the straight and narrow.
True. But are you trying to say that our officials are corrupted? If thats so pls do show me some evidences? Cause this beautiful sentence holds no strength if you can't show that a person is corrupted.
~Also, if you look at the scale of corruption free index, Singapore is ranked 4th after Denmark, Finland and New Zealand. Are the Prime Ministers and the equivalent Ministers in these countries paid in the millions like their Singaporean counterparts?
True. However, like what i said earlier, we should not use other country's standard as our own. Are you telling me that since these countries don't pay their civil servants more we should not too? Are you trying to say that we, as singaporean, should assign to whatever bondaries other nations had set up?
Rather, i think it would be better if we use their standards as a comparision and create a standard that we can call our own. Who knows? Maybe they will be following our standard and increasing their pay for civil servants.
Salary for a politician is a very sensitive subject. However, i believe everyone agrees that a person should be paid what is worth his/her contribution to the nation.
~Like I said before, show us the results first before even exploiting the commoners.
Proof pls?
~So have the standard of living for Korean, Taiwanese and Hong Kongers, but are their Ministers paid in the millions?
I've personally been to Taiwan and stayed they with a friend who was living there. Yes, that country have a high standard of living. However, compared to sg, i should say that taiwan's sercurity and S.O.L still have place to catch up.
So if i were to credit the politicians, i would definetly say that Sg's gov deserve a higher pay than taiwan's gov. Though i am in no position to say the exact amount.
~Old folks scavenging in the streets for cardboard boxes and aluminium cans; old folks not being able to afford medical treatment.
True. Very true indeed. It makes me think whether our gov is worth it whenever i met up with this people who deserve a better living standard.
However, i also see many,many more people who drive BMWs,
many, many teenagers who owns hps, mp3s/ipods, laptops
many, many aunties going for high tea in orchard
So i guess you know what i'm getting at.
I know by now you may think that imma PAP dog. I'm not, as a matter of fact there are many points i hate about our gov, its just that i find it best if we would be more open minded and learn to accept more alternative POVs. These will allow us to think deeper into each and every issue, rather than make pointless commend which can easily b swept under the rug by gov.
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Originally posted by Bentsb05:
governing singapore is never going to be easy with its no resources and limited people ....thus we need to have the best government who r dedicated and capable to run it......thus the high salaries to ensure the ministers' hearts r with the country's hopes and future. Normally the term has to that of at least 4 yrs or more to see the results of the policies in effect by these leaders...... no doublt singapore leaders may not endear themselves to some pple here, but at least the country as a whole has come a long way from before. Take note that a yes government may not even live to its end of term, not to mention for decades.....
to me, singapore government adopts more of a top down approach to bring the country forward if ever there is such a term for politics....... they look into the macro view first, solving problems from the top, that from country, to economy, to sectors, to industries, to companies, to family households, and finally to the individual himself.
it is a filtering down of benefits from policies developed by our leaders to hopefully benefit everyone. Thus with industrailization and inflows of huge investments from global corporations, the economy will spin off, leading to supporting industries like construction, real estate, finance, etc, There will be filtering down of benefits to the working man, who will be rewarded by money, company welfare perks, etc due to profitability. Of cos, then it will filter down to his family, affordability of housing, education, medical etc., right down even to the single person from the day, he was born into singapore citizenship.
On the other end, if we have a government who adopts a bottom up approach to address the people's needs first like medical, education, or even food, where are the money to fund all these going to come from??? In no time, this leaders will not last for long, the pple has no jobs, no house, no money except to live on the empty promises made by these politicians who will lie about anything to get into power and get get their money back many folds through corrupted means.
thus we cant have a government who meets every need or want of its pple. Something has to give, if u want freedom to express, at least be reasonable to back up with constructive feedback coupled with responsilbity and not to incite riots or demonstations which all these can bring down singapore in less than mths.
In fact, singapore has opened up with change of times n leadership, it is prepared to listen to its pple, and its leaders have started to share some of the money directly with the citizens through cash and also through lower corporate and personal income tax through these recent yrs. Though the critics may say that the government is taxing higher through gst increase all that, but think, isnt this a fair way to finance the budget through consumer spending than taxing everyone indiscriminately through a higher personal income tax at the end of the year... ..mind u this, there r many developed countries with a very high tax rate for its pple, not discriminating much whether they r high, middle or low income earners, to finance its huge annual budget requirements which includes giving dole to its unemployeds, who then uses it to travel to a cheaper country.
singapore is an accidental country. But its progress has been less than accidental...... With the strong leadership of our capable, selfless. dedicated team, we can go further beyond, with yr confidence, support and belief. Nothing is left to chance, and we will continue to improve, with or without its critics..........so hop onboard!
Don't need to wait more than 4 years to know where things are heading here. We are already feeling the effects of the 2% increase resulting in inflation and the increase in foreign talents to deprive our own citizens of jobs. Maybe you can elaborate what kind of policies that needs a time horizon of afew decades? The Global Crossing, Shin Corp, Suzhou Industrial Project, Merill Lynch or UBS? That's a common understanding amongst investors, if they lose money in the stock market, they will claim it as a long term investment with time horizons of afew decades. So long as they don't sell, it's still a paper loss.Benefits filtering down to the common men? Hardly, the common men are facing job losses due to foreign talents. The situation is, the increase in GST and Electricity tariffs has brought about supernormal profits for the government, but they decide to put it back into the coffers and let citizens suffer. Which utility organisation in the world earns 20% return on equity? Most earn around 10% in the US, while banks in Singapore earn less than 15% return on equity.
Whether it be top down approach, bottom down approach or even sideways approach, the integrity of the politician is of the utmost important. While they persist in self authorizing their pay increments to afew millions, concomitantly asking that low wage workers bite the bullet by taking pay cuts. Hardly the case for most large organisations, most of the time senior management takes a higher pay cut than the lower rungs.
Each country has it's own set of problems to deal with, not that any country with or without resources is immune these problems. Hong Kong for example was a colony of the British empire, a similar set of circumstances, yet Hong Kong developed into a far better country than Singapore.
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Originally posted by DeerHunter:
Like I said before, show us the results first before even exploiting the commoners. Have we reached the Swiss Standard of living? How much are the leaders paid in Switzerland?What is Swiss standards? - A rolls royce in every household?
So have the standard of living for Korean, Taiwanese and Hong Kongers, but are their Ministers paid in the millions?
Why don't you ask them for a full disclosure of their assets and see where they get their additional money from besides their paltry pay?
If you think we have already arrrived, I guess it's just self delusional again. Old folks scavenging in the streets for cardboard boxes and aluminium cans; old folks not being able to afford medical treatment.
I doubt if we had arrived, but its almost there. I personally would like to give more to help to these old folks, but most of them had already withdrawn their min. sum in CPF, probably spent it in China, and now live on govt welfare of est.$300. But then i personally don't have that large a fund to help all. Would you like to suggest 10% GST to your MP tonight? It would certainly help.
If you have evidence as to corrupt behaviours of these politicians in other countries, don't hesitate to provide us with facts of these corrupt behaviours. Else don't speculate.
If you still don't have the mentality to understand, we have a budget surplus every year. Temasek has funds that belong to Singaporeans. These increases in investment values are from overcharging her citizens through government monopolies. Why not distribute the excess of these investment returns (leaving the capital intact) to citizens so that they can have more of a life? Or you prefer to build up funds like what NKF does, for a doomsday event that will never occur.
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Originally posted by Bentsb05:
governing singapore is never going to be easy with its no resources and limited people ....thus we need to have the best government who r dedicated and capable to run it......thus the high salaries to ensure the ministers' hearts r with the country's hopes and future. Normally the term has to that of at least 4 yrs or more to see the results of the policies in effect by these leaders...... no doublt singapore leaders may not endear themselves to some pple here, but at least the country as a whole has come a long way from before. Take note that a yes government may not even live to its end of term, not to mention for decades.....
to me, singapore government adopts more of a top down approach to bring the country forward if ever there is such a term for politics....... they look into the macro view first, solving problems from the top, that from country, to economy, to sectors, to industries, to companies, to family households, and finally to the individual himself.
it is a filtering down of benefits from policies developed by our leaders to hopefully benefit everyone. Thus with industrailization and inflows of huge investments from global corporations, the economy will spin off, leading to supporting industries like construction, real estate, finance, etc, There will be filtering down of benefits to the working man, who will be rewarded by money, company welfare perks, etc due to profitability. Of cos, then it will filter down to his family, affordability of housing, education, medical etc., right down even to the single person from the day, he was born into singapore citizenship.
On the other end, if we have a government who adopts a bottom up approach to address the people's needs first like medical, education, or even food, where are the money to fund all these going to come from??? In no time, this leaders will not last for long, the pple has no jobs, no house, no money except to live on the empty promises made by these politicians who will lie about anything to get into power and get get their money back many folds through corrupted means.
thus we cant have a government who meets every need or want of its pple. Something has to give, if u want freedom to express, at least be reasonable to back up with constructive feedback coupled with responsilbity and not to incite riots or demonstations which all these can bring down singapore in less than mths.
In fact, singapore has opened up with change of times n leadership, it is prepared to listen to its pple, and its leaders have started to share some of the money directly with the citizens through cash and also through lower corporate and personal income tax through these recent yrs. Though the critics may say that the government is taxing higher through gst increase all that, but think, isnt this a fair way to finance the budget through consumer spending than taxing everyone indiscriminately through a higher personal income tax at the end of the year... ..mind u this, there r many developed countries with a very high tax rate for its pple, not discriminating much whether they r high, middle or low income earners, to finance its huge annual budget requirements which includes giving dole to its unemployeds, who then uses it to travel to a cheaper country.
singapore is an accidental country. But its progress has been less than accidental...... With the strong leadership of our capable, selfless. dedicated team, we can go further beyond, with yr confidence, support and belief. Nothing is left to chance, and we will continue to improve, with or without its critics..........so hop onboard!
i like your definitions alot, however, saying that sg's progress is accidental, i think that is very wrong.
Success don't come by accidents. It is obtained through smart decisions, personal sacrifices and hard work. Thats what makes us who we are today.